Advice in comparing AZCOM/COMP

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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CaliDO

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I am trying to finally decide where I will be going next year. I have narrowed it down to AZCOM and COMP. I would really appreciate anyone's input/experience about either of these schools. Thank you so much!!!
 
well...COMP is an hour away from the mountains, from LA, and from the beach. AZCOM is essentially in the desert, but both are good schools so it comes down to location. for me, it's cali all the way.
 
calisurfdoc said:
well...COMP is an hour away from the mountains, from LA, and from the beach. AZCOM is essentially in the desert, but both are good schools so it comes down to location. for me, it's cali all the way.
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AZCOM is a little over 4 hours to Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and the Mexican coast. Phoenix is also a very nice town to live near. Glendale is a suburb of Phoenix. AZCOM also has a nice new campus, with several other health care programs on campus.

I was planning on going to AZCOM, but ended up having to stay closer to home.

Being from Texas, Arizona seemed like a much better place for me than California. I'm not too fond of earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, and mudslides. The heat in Arizona is dry, which is great for my chronic sinus problems.
 
a lot of the students at COMP also interviewed at AZCOM, and at my interview the guy asked me straight up which one i'd go to if i got accepted to both. i honestly said COMP because i'm from so cal and the vibe fit perfectly. i don't know tons about AZCOM, but i can tell you what i've heard over and over on SDN and from classmates.

there are people at COMP that say "at AZCOM, they teach right out of review books and they have a 100% pass rate on the boards". i get the feeling that maybe those people would have been happier at AZCOM, where they could have spent 50 grand on what sounds like a 2 year kaplan course. it appears that if you want easier didactic years that teach straight to the boards, then AZCOM is for you. COMP requires a bit more self-sufficiency in terms of board prep, and is much harder in terms of what is tested. the first two years are definitely tough, but all will be forgiven when you hit the wards. COMP really shines in the clinical years- as is has been said, we have wonderful rotation sites and are well-known in so cal in terms of residency programs. i'm not sure about clinical stuff at AZCOM but i have heard very good things, mixed things and very bad things from students about the quality and variety of rotations sites.

as for the weather, cali rules. phoenix is crazy hot for a good part of the year.

ultimately, it should come down to where you felt best. your gut knows which place you liked more, so listen to it. we can all succeed with crappy didactics, crappy clinicals and any combination of the two- we just have to want the end result bad enough.
 
You likely won't get much of an AZCOM response for awhile as we're on break. And for just that reason, I won't go into depth.

I would say, though, that the previous poster's comments about AZCOM are a mischaracterization. I can't speak for which is "much harder in terms of what is being tested," but nor can I see how he can either. I can say with some certainty, though, that you'll never use the majority of what you're tested in med school, let alone what the boards test you on, and so a claim that we do all our book learnin' out of board prep books (even if true) wouldn't be that damning.

I chose AZCOM over COMP and others for a host of reasons, most relating to the quality of AZCOM's rotations and its record of even and efficient preclinical instruction. I can't speak for COMP, but I don't know too many people unhappy with their choice of AZCOM.
 
How many hospitals do you guys rotate at?

I'm from Scottsdale/Tempe and I was once told that U of A had a choke hold over Phoenix's clinical rotations. I also remember hearing something about building a state MD school downtown in the near future.

Does this bode well for AZCOM?



LukeWhite said:
You likely won't get much of an AZCOM response for awhile as we're on break. And for just that reason, I won't go into depth.

I would say, though, that the previous poster's comments about AZCOM are a mischaracterization. I can't speak for which is "much harder in terms of what is being tested," but nor can I see how he can either. I can say with some certainty, though, that you'll never use the majority of what you're tested in med school, let alone what the boards test you on, and so a claim that we do all our book learnin' out of board prep books (even if true) wouldn't be that damning.

I chose AZCOM over COMP and others for a host of reasons, most relating to the quality of AZCOM's rotations and its record of even and efficient preclinical instruction. I can't speak for COMP, but I don't know too many people unhappy with their choice of AZCOM.
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As far as our school teaching "out of review books", although I know that that was not supposed to be literal, is not true in any sense IMO.
That is very likely a misconception that others place on AZCOM simply b/c it has a high pass rate on the boards.
It is NOT anything like a two year Kaplan course. We are taught, as Luke said, way more stuff than we will need for the boards and way way way too much for what we will use as clinicians.
It DOES have to do with the fact that the professors have a true open door policy, we have an abundance of clinical correlations (ICM and Clinical Correlates I, II, III) during 2nd year that really solidify basic science concepts for the COMLEX style Q's, and write notes that are for the most part imaculate. And while we do not get taught directly for the boards...they don't leave anything out either (well except maybe for micro...but that is a whole other rant!)
 
donvicious said:
How many hospitals do you guys rotate at?

I'm from Scottsdale/Tempe and I was once told that U of A had a choke hold over Phoenix's clinical rotations. I also remember hearing something about building a state MD school downtown in the near future.

Does this bode well for AZCOM?
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I'm not sure it's a matter of boding poorly or not...we've never had many options in Phoenix teaching hospitals. This might change in the future, but AZCOM's strength is in a preceptor-based third year in which you sacrifice some traditional didactics for the sake of more experience. Plenty of people are staying in Phoenix; I'm not doing any rotations in the metro area.

It has its advantages and disadvantages, but without repeating too much in old threads, the clinical rotations are the reason I chose the school. The chance to deliver dozens of babies, do tons of central lines, etc. in third year when at any other school I'd be buried four rows deep behind the hierarchy of students and residents, is hugely attractive.
 
I have heard the same things RE: Boards and Rotations about AZCOM. I am from COMP and AZCOM students come out to So Cal to do rotations. I haven't rotated with any but have heard preceptors make comments about how they prefer Western/COMP students over Touro and AZCOM. Again, this is just what I have overheard from attendings....and I'm sure it depends on the students coming through.

COMP pre-clinical years are not always board-relevant to say the least, but my rotations have been fantastic. A downside of COMP was the fact that we didn't have any shelf exams our third year, but that has changed, which is a good thing IMO. I am happy with the education that I received at COMP, and I chose it because of the rotations. The weather has been great and that speaks for itself.....I have gotten sick of traffic in the LA area but that has only really been a concern as a 4th year, a little as a 3rd year, and not at all an issue as a 1st and 2nd year.

Depending where you want to practice or do residency, should be another considering factor. If you want to do a residency in SoCal, then come to Western/COMP because you will have an advantage. There are probably more residency opportunities in SoCal than in Arizona, but I could be wrong.

In the end it is probably just going to be a gut feeling that you have of one over the other. I also have to concede that when applying for competitive specialties, your boards scores are used for screening purposes, despite what people say. But, on the same token, I did very well on my boards and am hoping to match to Radiology. You have to be "self-sufficient" as the previous poster mentioned, regardless which program you attend.

Good Luck!
 
There's sure a lot of hearsay on this thread. Cali, I'd suggest you look at the matchlists for both schools to determine which has a residency placement best in line with your career plans rather than relying on student opinions. Look at rotations with an eye to the setup you think will best prepare you for whatever you're considering. And as far as preclinical years go, check out board scores.

Keep in mind that each person will likely think that his school is fantastic; we've preselected ourselves for that. If you can make your comparison as objective as possible with targeted questions and measurements, you'll have a much better chance of ending up somewhere you're happy with.
 
these are always tough...mostly because it pits two good schools against each other. The advice given to me when i found myself in your exact position is that you should consider yourself in a win-win situation. AZCOM and COMP are both great schools that will take you where you want to go. COMP has a few things going for it...locale and rotations. AZCOM has a few things going for it...excellent teaching/board pass rates, rotations...
COMP had a tough year from what i hear on these last boards...83% pass rate or something...that can be attributed to a lot of things we'll most likely never know about...whatever the case, azcom is annually in the 98% first time pass rate...I echo luke about rotations at azcom. I LOVE the idea that i will be unopposed at my rotations...i have no one else to compete with while delivering a baby or doing a surgery (even as a third year!!!) The school is great about letting you get out and experience different teaching styles throughout the country. COMP, from what i'm told, requires you to stay within a 90 mile radius...but, the opportunities in that area are excellent!
Really, you are in a win-win. I've never regretted a single day at AZCOM.
let us know if you have any other questions...
 
My AZCOM rotations, for what its worth.

IM: St. Vincents hospital in Toledo, inpatient
IM: Henry Ford wyndotte, inpatient
OB: Henry Ford wyndotte, inpatient
Surg Sub I: Lutheran general (MGH program)
SICU: Lutheran general (MGH program)
FP: Illinois Masonic
Neuro: Illinois Masonic
ER: Lutheran general (UIC and U of C program)
Trauma surg: Mt. Siani (stay away) chicago
Urology: Mt Siani
PM&R: Loyola
Gas: UW Harborview
Gas: Northwestern
OB: Northwestern Evanston
Cardiology: Ballard Hospital in seattle with the chief
Peds: Doctors hospital in Columbus (stay away)
Surgery: with Dr. Teaman at mesa lutheran, 1st assist on every case AZ
Psych: Some big psych outpatient center AZ
FP: Dr. Pazzi in Tuscon, AZ. Awsome rotation

Thats all I can remember. Stayed with friends in detroit and seattle. I learned plenty.
 
Pay close attention to VentDependant's list of rotations. Notice how many away rotations he took. Yes, AZCOM is great because you have this flexability. AZCOM sucks because you need this flexability to ensure quality clinical rotations. I personally stayed in Phoenix for most rotations due to family obligations, and even though I was very proactive in trying to select quality preceptors, my experiences ranged from excellent to truly awful. For every rotation where I felt lucky to be in a preceptor based rotation "catching babies and doing tons of central lines," there were 2 rotations where I was a glorified medical assistant, stood in the corner, or ran with my preceptor from patient to patient with no teaching. Realize that AZCOM preceptors are not paid to teach, do not even get A1 CME, and that they have to make a living. Students are a liability to them, even if they really enjoy having us around. Most days, I felt fortunate for 5-10 minutes here and there of actual teaching. Compare this with a teaching hospital setting, where you may be 4 rows back, but you've got 2-3 hours/day of solid teaching. The clinical experiences will come to all, eventually. How many of you would want a 3rd year MS doing a central line on you anyway?

As for the hospital based rotations in Phoenix. Currently as a 3rd year, you cannot rotate at ANY of the teaching hospitals in phoenix, period. As a 4th year, you can do a maximum of 2 months at each of the teaching hospitals provided they have room for you after their affliated medical schools submit requests for their students. Some of these hospitals have pre-requisites for their 4th year rotations such as 2 previous months of inpatient medicine, inpatient Peds or OB, etc, and these pre-requisites are impossible to comply with as a AZCOM student staying in Phoenix for your 3rd year, so as a 4th year you are still shut out of many inpatient opportunities in Phoenix. Realize that in this town, the Univ of AZ would love AZCOM to vanish from the earth and the local teaching hospitals are completly ambivelant about us as AZCOM pays them nothing to train us.

Things will get worse, I think, with the new medical school coming to Phoenix. There will not be a new teaching hospital built with the school, but rather the new MD students will utilize the existing teaching hospitals. What this means is less room/fewer unused inpatient rotation slots available for AZCOM students. I've talked with PDs and attendings at the VA, Maricopa, and St. Joes and they all say AZCOM currently begs for scraps when it comes to 4th year clerkships, and the scraps are going to get leaner when the new school comes.

Good luck with your decision.
 
yada yada yada...

So tired of the AZCOM's great, AZCOM sucks back and forth crap.

If you have worked with any 3rd year med students, they like to gripe about their life. Heck, all med students like to gripe. It's a way of relieving stress. I have heard people who are at teaching hospitals all year for 3rd year complain because they are stuck there. I have heard lots of my fellow AZCOM classmates complain about our 3rd and 4th year because we are not in a teaching hospital.

CaliDO, did you get a good feel for the campuses when you interviewed at both? What is more important to you? Board passing? Rotations at a teaching hospital? Don't really know yet? Then go with your gut feel. It will serve you the best in the end.
 
CaliDO,

If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like kristing (AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead. I'm just laying down some truths that I wish I had understood before I enrolled in AZCOM. Would I have made the same choice to come here? Maybe. But I bought full into the whole preceptor based rotation pitch, only to find out it isnt all roses. The grass is always greener elsewhere, and MS's love to bitch about everything, but listen:

Over the last few months of interviewing for residencies here in Phoenix, one question I've gotten from almost every PD in town is a list of where I've rotated. The reason, one PD explained, is that for a student from a program with teaching hospital rotations, he knows that student had a fairly standard and predictable clinical experience. For AZCOM students, however, he asks for a list because he realizes that the quality of our preceptor rotations are all over the board, and he has no way of judging how well clinically trained we are from just our transcript. So he looks for a candidate that can run down a list of reputable clinical training experiences from major teaching hospitals, places where he knows what sort of clinical experience the typical student receives.

OK, that's it from me. I dont want to turn this into a "yada yada yada" session, but just wanted to relate my personal, opinionated, varnished, jaded, whatever, whatever experience. PM me if you have further questions.

I'm out.



kristing said:
yada yada yada...

So tired of the AZCOM's great, AZCOM sucks back and forth crap.

If you have worked with any 3rd year med students, they like to gripe about their life. Heck, all med students like to gripe. It's a way of relieving stress. I have heard people who are at teaching hospitals all year for 3rd year complain because they are stuck there. I have heard lots of my fellow AZCOM classmates complain about our 3rd and 4th year because we are not in a teaching hospital.

CaliDO, did you get a good feel for the campuses when you interviewed at both? What is more important to you? Board passing? Rotations at a teaching hospital? Don't really know yet? Then go with your gut feel. It will serve you the best in the end.
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If AZCOM had more teaching hospital based rotations 3rd year do you think I would have gone through all the trouble to rotate out? Rhetorical. I had other reasons for comming to the midwest (family issues) but I still felt compeled otherwise to rotate out.

Rural experiences are supposed to be great but not everyone gets those pics or wants to live in podunk arizona for months on end. Point is work hard 3rd year to land as much teaching hospital rotations you can and 4th year you can rotate at as many massive teaching institutions as you'd like. I don't know of any other DO school that lets you do so many out rotations.

4th year its a positive for landing letters and some really unique experience. 3rd year its a pain in the rear. Thats all she wrote.

Now I need to unwind and listen to some Kruder and Dorfmeister.
 
First of all, pass rate for COMLEX I at COMP was 90% according to our assistant dean, and it's been fairly consistent around that number, which yes, is still lower than the 98% at AZCOM.

I personally don't see how going to AZCOM instead of COMP would make me pass the boards. It's like an obese person hoping to lose weight by moving from a state with a 98% overweight population to a state with 90%. (like that 8% really makes a difference between those 2 fat states)

Also, that obese person is not going to lose weight all of a sudden just by moving. Maybe there are lifestyle differences, or the weather, in that other state that might help the person lose weight, but ultimately that person would still have to work hard for it.

So for me, there were no advantages to attend AZCOM. I know I'll pass the boards no matter what, and COMP really does have a better clinical education. In addition, I am just someone who needs to live in a world-class metropolitan area and be with other like-minded classmates that also appreciate such a diverse and exciting environment. I mean I'll move to a remote island if that school could really teach me something so unique, like the cure for AIDS. Otherwise, a school like AZCOM doesn't offer me more, and I'm not sure if it even matches.
 
bikerboy said:
If you want to get all touchy-feely in making your decision like kristing (AZCOM's unoffical apologist) suggests, go ahead.
I'm out.
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There is no need for name calling here.

Funny how people act like your friend to your face, but call you names when they "appear" to be anonymous.
 
Cali,

Here's a pretty extensive thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=110936

I don't know how helpful it will be to you; it's really (a lot) more of the same. Do you have an idea of what specialty you want to go into, what geography you'd like to angle towards for residency and beyond? Do you consider LA asset or liability? Outdoors or nightlife?

The dirty little secret about medical school is that the first two years are essentially directed independent study anyway, a glorified Master's degree, and the second two years are more or less up to you wherever you go, with slight advantages and disadvantages that make some schools preferable for some types of medicine. For all der sturm und drang, the most crucial factor determining your success will be your effort and willingness to be proactive in planning your own career. After that, it's just tweaking.
 
I may have a different take on this topic. I'm from Idaho and wanted to practice there (and most likely will.) With AZCOM, I was able to do the first 6 months of my 3rd year in Phoenix and my last six months and the rest of my 4th year away.

That allowed me to move my wife to Idaho. I must admit that it sucked during my 3rd year because in order to get any sort of experience clinically, I felt I needed at least 4 months in house. So, I had to move away from my wife for three months in a row to go to the midwest where we are not yet shut out of rotations. To make a long story short, I'll tell you that I've lived in Sacramento, Detroit, Toledo, Fresno, and Portland trying to get some good experience. I have only done 3 rotations total at osteopathic institutions so if that's important to you, don't go to AZCOM. I've also had to be away from my wife for 7 of the last 12 months so for that reason you may not want to go to AZCOM. However, I've also done rotations at OHSU, UCDavis, UCSFresno, and UW (Boise) and feel as though I am as clinically sound as any MD student I've come into contact with. For me, if I would have known what I do now, I still would have done it simply for the fact that my wife and I are able to live in the area we love (and hunt, ski, fish, etc..)

Hope that helps
 
i can guarantee you that COMP's pass rate was LESS THAN 90% because I can list 20 people off the top of my head that DID NOT PASS COMLEX on 1st try from DO2006
 
Since some of my 4th year classmates from AZ have responded, I think I will too. First of all, here are some of the rotations I did.

Rural FP - Salem OR
Psych - Portland OR
FP - Troutdale OR
OB/GYN - Arrowhead CA (hospital based)
Surg - Phoenix, AZ
Cards - Phoenix, AZ
IM - St. Vicents OR (hospital)
Peds - Phoenix, AZ
Sub IM - Maricopa (hospital)
MICU - Maricopa (hospital)
EM - Arrowhead CA (hospital)
Peds EM- U of Hawaii (hospital)
Cards - U of Hawaii (hospital)
Rads - U of Hawaii (hospital)

I have to say, of all my rotations, however, preceptor based surgery and cardiology were absolutely AWESOME. I had the chance to put in pacemakers, assist with heart caths, cardiovert, assist with every single surgery a general surgeon does, one-on-one rounding with my preceptor, etc. I am a firm believer in the preceptor based model 50% of the time and Hospital based 50% of the time. If you work hard, and do your homework of the people you rotate with, the preceptor based model works wonders!

With that said, I am on my third month here in Hawaii and will be here until graduation. I have received a lot of freedom. It has worked out great for my family and I.

I matched with my first choice of Osteopathic EM residency without any problems. Of course, my board score helped. I cannot discount the first two years of didactics that AZCOM gives. AZCOM's record of stellar board scores is a significant factor to consider for all who weigh going to AZCOM.

AZCOM is not a perfect school. I think there are many things that can improve. However, every medical student throughout the United States probably doesn't believe their school is perfect. Overall, I am happy with my decision of going to AZCOM and would choose it again.

I know nothing about COMP. Everything I have heard about COMP has been via rumors. Rumors are not worth mentioning. I can say, that I've felt equally as competent as any COMP student I have met.
 
aloha...
I take everything i read on sdn with a grain of salt...but i must tell you that each time i see one of your posts i get really, really excited!!! I just think you mirror the attitude that we should all have.
 
Thank you all for your insight and help. I've been doing a lot of thinking the last week and your comments have definitly put things into prospective for me. All along my gut has been telling me to go to AZCOM. Even at my MSUCOM interview there was a little cactus on my interviewer's desk with a little sign that said Arizona. At that time it was 2 weeks after my azcom interview and I just chuckled to myself. Some kind of sign? I wonder....

I really liked the feel when I went to AZ, however their nontraditional rotations is what has kept me from finally making up my mind. On the other hand, I definitly liked COMP because it is the closest to my friends and family.
My problem has been that I don't know what residency I will do. I know I want to do something more primary care oriented, possibly fp, ob/gyn, or maybe even psych. I also have a significant other and if he is going to follow me to where I go, I don't want to uproot him again in 2 years. In the end I have decided to go with my gut and go to AZCOM. I definitly like their first two years cirriculum better than COMP and I also like the quarter system better since I went to a UC school. There was also a few other things I compared. As far as rotations, we'll see where I am in 2+ years. My boyfriend might want to go to grad school by then and we'll totally relocate to wherever he goes, or we'll stay in AZ and I'll have to go away for a few weeks at a time.

For anyone else going through a similar dilemna as me, I suggest searching through previous threads too. One of lukewhite's previous responses a few weeks ago detailing how you actually pick your rotations step by step really helped. The fact that you mentioned how they helped you with finding cheap housing also relieved me. How housing works was another concern about the process if you had to go to another city every few weeks. I couldn't imagine how I could keep a residence in AZ and then go away for weeks at a time and pay for that too. All in all, I know it is going to work out just fine.

Thanks again for helping out! I can't wait to meet all of you at AZCOM in August. See you in a few months!!! 😀
 
CaliDO said:
Thank you all for your insight and help. I've been doing a lot of thinking the last week and your comments have definitly put things into prospective for me. All along my gut has been telling me to go to AZCOM. Even at my MSUCOM interview there was a little cactus on my interviewer's desk with a little sign that said Arizona. At that time it was 2 weeks after my azcom interview and I just chuckled to myself. Some kind of sign? I wonder....

I really liked the feel when I went to AZ, however their nontraditional rotations is what has kept me from finally making up my mind. On the other hand, I definitly liked COMP because it is the closest to my friends and family.
My problem has been that I don't know what residency I will do. I know I want to do something more primary care oriented, possibly fp, ob/gyn, or maybe even psych. I also have a significant other and if he is going to follow me to where I go, I don't want to uproot him again in 2 years. In the end I have decided to go with my gut and go to AZCOM. I definitly like their first two years cirriculum better than COMP and I also like the quarter system better since I went to a UC school. There was also a few other things I compared. As far as rotations, we'll see where I am in 2+ years. My boyfriend might want to go to grad school by then and we'll totally relocate to wherever he goes, or we'll stay in AZ and I'll have to go away for a few weeks at a time.

For anyone else going through a similar dilemna as me, I suggest searching through previous threads too. One of lukewhite's previous responses a few weeks ago detailing how you actually pick your rotations step by step really helped. The fact that you mentioned how they helped you with finding cheap housing also relieved me. How housing works was another concern about the process if you had to go to another city every few weeks. I couldn't imagine how I could keep a residence in AZ and then go away for weeks at a time and pay for that too. All in all, I know it is going to work out just fine.

Thanks again for helping out! I can't wait to meet all of you at AZCOM in August. See you in a few months!!! 😀
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As a fellow Cali resident, I say good decision. I made trips to both schools, AZCOM won by a landslide. I think the very same Luke White once said, on another post, that the way to pick a school is by looking at their residency placement. That is the great equalizer. You can argue for board scores or you can argue for clinical ed or for anything else for that matter. But what really matters is that you move on to the next level. AZCOM has an impressive match list, above average when comparing other Osteopathic schools and a hell of a lot better than COMP's (I looked).
Besides that, COMP has a way eerie feeling about it. Not too long ago, they were in knee deep with scandals (administration problems/fraud, etc.). This was occuring right when I was trying to decide... not a good sign. And who wants to go to school in a run down strip mall anyway?
 
Congratulations Cali 🙂 Actually, the thing that first got AZCOM on my radar was a glowing recommendation from the MSUCOM dean of admissions. They sure do love AZCOM there for some reason.

I think you'll find the housing very reasonable. With my current rotations, I'll end up with several hundred dollars more than I have now thanks to the subsidized housing. Linda in Clinical Ed is very good about letting you know which rotations have reliable housing. In fact, she was helpful all around and has really reinforced my faith in AZCOM's system. Being able to tailor rotations to geographic preference, desired "track," housing needs, and family concerns is an amazing opportunity.

Let us know if you have any questions as you begin to set up!
 
Congratulations Cali! Welcome aboard. True! In the end, it is a GUT call.
 
that's great cali! i think going with your gut is the best way to do it. although i won't envy you in the hotter months, it's great that you found a school you really feel comfortable with.

and to all the other AZCOMers: i really didn't mean to sound like i was badmouthing your school- i was just frustrated at the comments some of my own classmates have made in class. we should all realize that there's a school for everyone, and we'll be able to become great physicians whether we're stuck in the hot flaming desert or a strip mall in the ghetto.
 
Congratulations!!! Bottom line - you gotta go with that "gut" feeling. The sub-conscious has a strange way of getting beyond all the mind boggling minutia that we are bombarded with in comparing one solid school to the next. I think it has something to do with that damn Hegelian Dialectic. I was down in Arizona last week, dropped in to check out the campus again, sat in on a few lectures and now there's no doubt in my mind that I made the right decision. I realize that every school is more or less a mixed bag of this and that but as far as I'm concerned AZCOM has got one tight program that seems unparalleled in so many ways (at least for me anyways). Although, on the flip side I know a few students at COMP that are just as psyched with their decision.

This is just an interesting side note but I thought I'd mention it anyway. My wife just landed a job on the trauma team at Maricopa Hospital in Phoenix and was talking with a few of the trauma docs and they mentioned that they were really impressed with the AZCOM students that rotate through there. They also mentioned that medical students from AZCOM were consistently more prepared than University of Arizona medical students. Sure, this was just subjective opinion but it does seem to hold some weight none-the-less. Well, see you in August.


Life is a tale told by idiots
Full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing

- Shakespeare
 
It seems that everyone is using the quality of the students (i.e. board scores, residency placement, comments by other doctors) in assessing and comparing schools. My question is: Does the school's education have a drastic influence on the quality of the students or does it mostly depend on the selection of students during the admission process?
 
that dr. jack said:
that's great cali! i think going with your gut is the best way to do it. although i won't envy you in the hotter months, it's great that you found a school you really feel comfortable with.

and to all the other AZCOMers: i really didn't mean to sound like i was badmouthing your school- i was just frustrated at the comments some of my own classmates have made in class. we should all realize that there's a school for everyone, and we'll be able to become great physicians whether we're stuck in the hot flaming desert or a strip mall in the ghetto.
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Dr. Jack, everyone in class knows you as someone who's very fair and you are not someone who would even care of starting rumors.

So it's true that she was just the messenger...repeating some of the things she has heard. Don't kill the messenger and it's good that it's out in the open because it allows inputs from others to clear things up.

Dr. Jack, have you noticed there's also a thread in pre-osteo. forum with a similar topic? It's full of drama, name-calling, bragging with no basis(all from one individual) and several responses with sarcasm(from me). Take a look.
 
Does the school's education have a drastic influence on the quality of the students or does it mostly depend on the selection of students during the admission process?
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Yes...


and dr. jack, no hard feelings at all...that's what i meant when i said these are tough questions...they (unnecessarily) pit two great schools against each other...i hope to work with docs of your caliber in the future
 
regarding the "choke hold" that ua has on the rotations at teaching facilities in phoenix..........
pshaw. tenacity and an imagination will get you into some of those elusive teaching hospitals in the valley, no matter what their silly requirements/limitations are. subversiveness got me into one as a third year, never mind that rotations at this place were totally off limits to MSIIIs from azcom, as written in their contract with ua.

thusly....... while i do agree that we have relatively slim pickings compared to ua kids, its not something absolute that will force you out of the valley.

and yes......... med students loooooooooove to bitch.
 
calisurfdoc said:
well...COMP is an hour away from the mountains, from LA, and from the beach. AZCOM is essentially in the desert, but both are good schools so it comes down to location. for me, it's cali all the way.
Click to expand...

You have obviously never been to Phoenix. It's not casually referred to as the "valley" for nothing. It's surrounded by mountains. I just went snowboarding at Snowbowl and the resort was literally 2 hours and 15 minutes from my door to the lift so in LA exaggeration time, it was an 1 hour from my apartment. And from someone who grew up in Anaheim Hills, unless you were using a helicopter, the mountains are not an hour away from COMP. Try 2.5 hours realistically.
 
lama said:
As a fellow Cali resident, I say good decision. I made trips to both schools, AZCOM won by a landslide. I think the very same Luke White once said, on another post, that the way to pick a school is by looking at their residency placement. That is the great equalizer. You can argue for board scores or you can argue for clinical ed or for anything else for that matter. But what really matters is that you move on to the next level. AZCOM has an impressive match list, above average when comparing other Osteopathic schools and a hell of a lot better than COMP's (I looked).
Besides that, COMP has a way eerie feeling about it. Not too long ago, they were in knee deep with scandals (administration problems/fraud, etc.). This was occuring right when I was trying to decide... not a good sign. And who wants to go to school in a run down strip mall anyway?
Click to expand...

A school has almost nothing to do with your residency placement. It's up to the individual how well he or she does in basic sciences and prepares for the boards. A school doesn't provide you with a high COMLEX or USMLE score. You can find people at AZCOM who aced the exam as well as failed it.

In my opinion, the reason why AZCOM tends to do well in placing students is because the student body at AZCOM is pretty bright in general. Nearly a 1/3 of the class at AZCOM is Mormon. Many of the Mormon students at AZCOM are married and/or have children. Due to their family and religous obligations, these students tend to be focused and don't get carried away with the paryting and social scene. Mind you, they are sociable and are not gunners so I'm not implying that. They are there to study and thus tend to be amazing students. I know that an 88% overall at AZCOM wouldn't even place you in the top half of the class. One guy from our school wrote USMLE Step I secrets.

In regards to the comment that our basic sciences are taught out of a review book, oh man, I can't tell you how hard I laughed when I read that. Just go through our anatomy course and tell me that it's taught out of a review book. Or go through our biochem class and tell me it's just a live version of First Aid when you are learning about gene therapy in SCID patients or multiple workshops on microcytic and macrocytic anemias. Seriously, nothing could be further from the truth. Our ICM course is not a blow off course like it is at other schools. Our exams tested us on material that many third year students didn't know. I thought it was excessive and unnecessary for a first year student to be tested on details about various forms dermal pathologies. Sometimes, I wish our curriculum was a little more mainstream because none of our exam questions are straightforward like at other schools. They are all very USMLE-like in that every question has a catch to it and it can be difficult to score well despite knowing a subject matter in and out.

Anyway, the point is you should attend the school you are most comfortable with. Whatever you get from it is up to you. Your school will not give you a certain board score or class rank. I do think if you want to stay in Cali, it would be beneficial to attend COMP because of the networking opportunities and local rotation opportunities. Other than those factors, you should attend the school you are most comfortable with. I can't fault COMP students for wanting to stay in Cali like I can't fault AZCOM students for wanting to study on an amazing campus and experience great pre-clinical years.
 
novacek88 said:
A school has almost nothing to do with your residency placement. It's up to the individual how well he or she does in basic sciences and prepares for the boards. A school doesn't provide you with a high COMLEX or USMLE score. You can find people at AZCOM who aced the exam as well as failed it.

In my opinion, the reason why AZCOM tends to do well in placing students is because the student body at AZCOM is pretty bright in general. Nearly a 1/3 of the class at AZCOM is Mormon. Many of the Mormon students at AZCOM are married and/or have children. Due to their family and religous obligations, these students tend to be focused and don't get carried away with the paryting and social scene. Mind you, they are sociable and are not gunners so I'm not implying that. They are there to study and thus tend to be amazing students. I know that an 88% overall at AZCOM wouldn't even place you in the top half of the class. One guy from our school wrote USMLE Step I secrets.

In regards to the comment that our basic sciences are taught out of a review book, oh man, I can't tell you how hard I laughed when I read that. Just go through our anatomy course and tell me that it's taught out of a review book. Or go through our biochem class and tell me it's just a live version of First Aid when you are learning about gene therapy in SCID patients or multiple workshops on microcytic and macrocytic anemias. Seriously, nothing could be further from the truth. Our ICM course is not a blow off course like it is at other schools. Our exams tested us on material that many third year students didn't know. I thought it was excessive and unnecessary for a first year student to be tested on details about various forms dermal pathologies. Sometimes, I wish our curriculum was a little more mainstream because none of our exam questions are straightforward like at other schools. They are all very USMLE-like in that every question has a catch to it and it can be difficult to score well despite knowing a subject matter in and out.

Anyway, the point is you should attend the school you are most comfortable with. Whatever you get from it is up to you. Your school will not give you a certain board score or class rank. I do think if you want to stay in Cali, it would be beneficial to attend COMP because of the networking opportunities and local rotation opportunities. Other than those factors, you should attend the school you are most comfortable with. I can't fault COMP students for wanting to stay in Cali like I can't fault AZCOM students for wanting to study on an amazing campus and experience great pre-clinical years.
Click to expand...

I'm not mormon and I made top 15%.

NO I don't have anything against mormons. Just religion in general. joke.
 
Jinyaoysiu said:
I know I'll pass the boards no matter what, and COMP really does have a better clinical education.
Click to expand...

Mmm...I'm sure that's what the 10% who failed originally thought before they attended medical school too. No one goes in thinking they could fail.

Listen, I went through the EXACT debate last year...and I came to my decision, I choose to go to AZCOM. I am very happy with my decision, and I am thankful for where I am. I personally love it here for a variety of reasons, and I do not believe I could be happier at any other school. I know there are some people who chose COMP over AZCOM...and they are happy as well. Decide what the pros and cons are....and then investigate for yourself how strong those pros and cons are.

As for the clinical education, when I was in the process of deciding, I emailed multiple gme departments at hospitals in Oregon and Washington....I specifically asked of their experience between COMP and AZCOM students...the responses I received were that they were equal with one email stating that there was a preference for midwestern students. This is the information that I based my opinion on regarding the quality of the clinical rotations.

Let me also add, that if you want a residency in CA...then maybe COMP is the way to go...but if you want a residency somewhere else...then COMP's excellent clinical rotation sites may not have as much of an impact then you think as I believe you can have quality 3rd year rotations as well at AZCOM.
 
novacek88 said:
Nearly a 1/3 of the class at AZCOM is Mormon. Many of the Mormon students at AZCOM are married and/or have children. Due to their family and religous obligations, these students tend to be focused and don't get carried away with the paryting and social scene.
Click to expand...

bwah ha hah ha ha

Have you met our valedictorian? :laugh:
 
Hmm, ours hailed from UT with a bunch of kids. Don't knock 'em for their work ethic.

I have seen good and bad MS3s from COMP/AZCOM/CCOM/Kirksville/etc. I have worked with students from several top allopathic schools that performed as well as their DO counterparts. As someone posted above, the student gets the residency slot, not the school of attendence. The quality of the person also will determine the quality of the med student. Anybody can coast through med school and graduate. Self effort is needed to do well and to earn your residency position.

I choose AZCOM, coming from San Diego, due to location. Mom/Dad/Brother 45 min away in Scottsdale. Having family close by was very helpful for me, especially once baby popped out fo my wife during 4th year. Housing prices were cheaper, new home was 135K, 1 mile from the school. I didn't have a board pass rate to go by in 1997, when interviewing, but the quality of the staff seemed excellent when I interviewed. There was an honest caring for the students, when it wasn't required.

Coming from the new and challenged preceptor based MS 3/4, I blew through internship with ease and matched in a fairly competitive allopathic residency in So Cal. (Had to take 2 years off due to uncle sam and Iraq).

AZCOM, new program, but rapidly establishing a strong track record.

COMP, I have nothing bad to say about their program. Several friends with whom I interned with were solid and were from that program.
 
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