How hard to get in?

pip00 said:

Into an md/ph.d program? If some school offers this and a regular md program, is the md/ph.d always harder to get into? I heard someone say the following "most people applying to m.d./ph.d. are not qualified. but if you are qualified, you are bound to get in somewhere. qualifications include research and mcat". i.e. he's trying to say that a medschool might choose a candidate with a lot of community service over someone that has a publication and some advanced courses relavent to his research, whereas md/ph.d. programs will be extra careful to the latter?

Also i understand that i wouldnt have a shot at some of the more prestigious md/ph.d. programs. So could you list some of the ones that are easier to get into, and on the east coast?
Thanks

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Yes and no. For some schools, entrance into the MD/PhD program is contingent upon acceptance into the MD program. In those cases, it's obviously harder to get into the combined degree program than just the MD. Most of the top MD programs also have large research budgets. Thus, even for MD only, having research experience will make you a more attractive applicant. For MD/PhD significant research experience is required- almost all the secondary questions ask to write about your research, and you need LOR's for 3 mentors who can speak to your research abilities.

Generally, non-MSTP combined degree programs are easier to get into than the government funded MSTPs. Some of those on the east coast include Darthmouth, Drexel, BU, Wake, VCU, and UMass. I don't know that these school are necessarily easier to get into than other MSTP schools. Anyhow, I'm sure someone else will post and include anything I left out.

For the first part-- I've found that to be somewhat true. Some MD/PhD programs have control over a certain number of med school spots, so if they really want you, they'll give you an MD acceptance and waitlist for the MD/PhD at the very least (just my experience). And then other schools, as Reimat pointed out, make you get into the med school just like everyone else. If you're like me and have a lower gpa but lots of research (and some pubs, though this is not necessary), then that MD acceptance can be the big hurdle.

Schools on the east coast-- check out U Vermont in addition to the other suggestions. Also, apply to some MSTP's, you never know-- if *I* could get an MSTP interview, you probably could too! Just apply to a range.

I think the stats are much better for MD/PhD vs. MD admissions. There are maybe 400 or so MD/PhD applicants per year. Any given MSTP gets 200-400 applications for ~10-15 spots. They probably admit 2-3 times that number based on rates of matriculation. So compared to MD applications, the numbers for MD/PhD look really good.

I think applications are on the rise. I'm starting at Case Western in a couple of weeks and they told us that there were ~300 applicants to the CWRU MSTP alone. Apparently, that's 3X as many two years ago. Granted, those 300 people didn't apply to just CWRU, but still! I also had an informer on the inside at Emory who told if I had applied last year I would've gotten in, but I was just edged out because of the increase in applications.

I don't mean to frighten anyone; that was just my experience. Maybe other students could find out how many applied to their schools and post?

-X

PS. Your numbers are right on the money, Evil Monkey.

Evil Monkey said:

I think the stats are much better for MD/PhD vs. MD admissions. There are maybe 400 or so MD/PhD applicants per year. Any given MSTP gets 200-400 applications for ~10-15 spots. They probably admit 2-3 times that number based on rates of matriculation. So compared to MD applications, the numbers for MD/PhD look really good.

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xanthines said:

I think applications are on the rise. I'm starting at Case Western in a couple of weeks and they told us that there were ~300 applicants to the CWRU MSTP alone. Apparently, that's 3X as many two years ago. Granted, those 300 people didn't apply to just CWRU, but still! I also had an informer on the inside at Emory who told if I had applied last year I would've gotten in, but I was just edged out because of the increase in applications.

I don't mean to frighten anyone; that was just my experience. Maybe other students could find out how many applied to their schools and post?

-X

PS. Your numbers are right on the money, Evil Monkey.

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Looking around a lot of websites whilst doing MSTP research, 300 is a conservative estimate of apps for a good portion of MD/PhD programs.

Evil Monkey said:

I think the stats are much better for MD/PhD vs. MD admissions. There are maybe 400 or so MD/PhD applicants per year. Any given MSTP gets 200-400 applications for ~10-15 spots. They probably admit 2-3 times that number based on rates of matriculation. So compared to MD applications, the numbers for MD/PhD look really good.

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more like 2000 applicants per 500 slots. (http://www.aamc.org/research/dbr/mdphd/appsurvey.pdf) The percentage accepted is still really high, but remember that this is a self selecting group - MCATS and GPAs are generally in the very high percentile ranges.

Oak said:

more like 2000 applicants per 500 slots. (http://www.aamc.org/research/dbr/mdphd/appsurvey.pdf) The percentage accepted is still really high, but remember that this is a self selecting group - MCATS and GPAs are generally in the very high percentile ranges.

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I wouldn’t really call that a high percentage. 500 out of 2000 is 25%, which is quite a bit lower than regular MD acceptance.

Thundrstorm said:

I wouldn’t really call that a high percentage. 500 out of 2000 is 25%, which is quite a bit lower than regular MD acceptance.

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Yes, i know that 500/2000 is 0.25. Anyway, my point was that the previous poster was overestimating an average applicant's chances of getting into an mdphd program.

xanthines said:

Maybe other students could find out how many applied to their schools and post?

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At the school I'm attending, there were ~40-50 applicants for 36 interviews and 13 acceptances. Which is pretty sweet. However, since the TX programs are now on the AMCAS, I'm guessing the number of applications would probably shoot up.

This number is more reasonable.

But the "average" chance doesn't say much. If you can get in one good school, you probably will have many other acceptances. So even though it's hard to get in, it's not so hard if you can get in at least one... if that makes any sense.

Oak said:

Yes, i know that 500/2000 is 0.25. Anyway, my point was that the previous poster was overestimating an average applicant's chances of getting into an mdphd program.

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OddNath said:

At the school I'm attending, there were ~40-50 applicants for 36 interviews and 13 acceptances. Which is pretty sweet. However, since the TX programs are now on the AMCAS, I'm guessing the number of applications would probably shoot up.

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Shh! I was hoping to keep that quiet, as UTH was creeping up on my list now that I have given up on my "I'll never live in Texas again " stance (Amarillo can do that to a guy)...

On a more personal note, you doing BioE for your PhD, OddNath?

scooter31 said:

Shh! I was hoping to keep that quiet, as UTH was creeping up on my list now that I have given up on my "I'll never live in Texas again " stance (Amarillo can do that to a guy)...

On a more personal note, you doing BioE for your PhD, OddNath?

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Hey, Houston is *way* better than Amarillo! Give it a chance, there's actually alot going on here. Awesome food, art/music scene, and cute squirrels on the Rice campus.

I'll be doing neuroscience for my PhD. UT-H doesn't have a joint program set up with Rice yet to do a BioE PhD (it should in a few years). But even if it did..I just wanted a change.

i think we might need to modify those numbers of MD/PhD's per school a little.

i started at Utah just a few weeks ago and we only have 4 spots per year (mainly due to the fact that they want to keep it small). i also know that places like UVM, Dartmouth, UMASS only have 5-6 spots, and in the case of UMASS 3 of those are reserved for MA residents. The schools with 10-15 are fewer than we might think, and of course there are the WashU, Penn and Pritzker types with numbers in the 20s or 30s

Personally, I had an experience where MD application is very clear about NOT accepting AP credit in ANY courses. I hadn't taken Physics in college (mainly because I never thought I would apply to med school so it didnt matter) and was told at one time by the MD office that I shouldn't bother applying because there were NO exceptions. In the end I contacted a collaborator who then was able to broach the subject with the MD/Phd director who was able to talk to the MD office and decide that if my undergraduate college thought my physics was sufficient then he would, too. I got into that school. Had I not made the connections, though, I would never have even gotten an interview.

pip00 said:

Thanks for the replies. I have another question. If a person goes to dental school, and then say does residency in omfs and decides to work in academia eventually, i.e. part-time with patients and part-time research. must he then do research with "bone" or other dental stuff? or he could do completely unrelated research, like cardiology? same of course goes for md-ph.d. people. say the student gets residency in cardiology but a ph.d. in chemistry (completely unrelated areas), can he then work as both a chemist and a cardiologist?

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I don't think chemistry and cardiology are completely unrelated. One is basic science, the other is applied medical science (?). I'm sure chemistry could come to play in cardiology.

Technically, I think an OMFS could do cardiology research, especially if they had an MD or PhD in physiology or something. Getting grants or research funding for that might be an uphill battle. Overall though, why would they do that? An OMFS chose to specialize in the oral cavity. I would say that OMFS and cardiology are the truly unrelated areas.