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There were people in my program who were 13.
Why do med schools allow 12-year-olds to attend?
Started by cubbbie
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There were people in my program who were 13.
Another big difference between your story and mind -- doing something like that with other people in your same situation is a totally different scenario. If this kid had 5 other 12-year-olds to go through med school with him, I guarantee you it would be a better experience for him. When I was 16 I finally I met another 16-year-old in my grade. She was the only person I'd ever met in my situation. I can't tell you how much better I felt after meeting her. Doing something like that with 100s of others would alleviate all the major challenges a kid like Sho would have to face doing it alone.
Oh gosh, there I go generalizing again ...
Anyway, I've lost interest. I'm done for the night.
CNN article said:
There you have it, folks. Proof that "wanting to help people" is sufficient reason to convince the adcom that you're meant for medicine.
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I don't really care. If thats what he wants to do then fine, I think he should go for it. Its not like he will be seeing patients right away or something, I remember reading the article a while back and it mentioned that that will be put off until he is older. So that isn't going to really be a problem.
As for everyone saying that he is missing out on middle school and high school. Well, not everyone enjoyed or liked high school. I hated it and thought it was living hell! It was that way for a lot of people. A lot of boring tedious work, and having to deal with all the kids in their stupid little groups and cliques. Honestly he isn't missing much, middle school and high school, or actually any school anytime before college, is all that great.
As for everyone saying that he is missing out on middle school and high school. Well, not everyone enjoyed or liked high school. I hated it and thought it was living hell! It was that way for a lot of people. A lot of boring tedious work, and having to deal with all the kids in their stupid little groups and cliques. Honestly he isn't missing much, middle school and high school, or actually any school anytime before college, is all that great.
Yah. He spent his friday nights studying for the MCAT.
Seriously, pre-med is hell for a lot of people. It seems like he did a lot more than that since he has his name on a research paper. Unless he was sleeping 3 hours a day, he doesn't have time to "live life", not to mention that a lot of 12 years old sleep at 10 pm at the latest. Any don't try to say, "oh, he looks pretty damn happy according to the article." Of course he's not going to say, I MISSED OUT ON SO MUCH, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Also, to live life, you gotta have friends and sh1t, unless you play CS all day. I dunno about you guys, but I wouldn't jump on the idea of asking his mom if he can play poker w/ a bunch of guys at 2 am. There are kids that are enter med school at 18 yo and at least they can partially hide their youth, but 12 years old!Yes. A lot of people hated high school and middle school. I hated that aspect of it too, but there are a lot of good things about ithose years. And even if it mostly really sucked, part of growing up is going through that torture believe it or not.
And for people who said, "maybe his interest isn't in stuff that we do, but it's with education and learning." BS! I don't know one person who would say, "Hey, lets learn all the enzymes in the Kreb's Cycle this friday night. Watching movies and getting laid is for nerds." You find me one person that's so obsessed with education that it's his 24/7 hobbie, and I'll believe that the kid is actually living his life to the fullest.
First of all, thanks cubbie! :^)
Yes! Since the majority of kids in high/mid weren't rich, cool, or popular, by definition, the majority of kids in high/mid felt like outsiders/felt it sucked/hated school at one point or another between 7th and 12th grade. But like Boy Meets World, or The Wonder Years, it really *is* part of growing up. And you wake up one day and realize it didn't kill you - that you're still here. And...I don't know. For that reason alone, I've got to agree, and say it's kind of worth it. If only so you can have a Garden State moment with your equivalent of Natalie Portman in a bathtub when you're in your 20s, and have a good cry about how adolescence fvcked you over. For goodness sake, let's not take that away from this kid! 😎
winthug said:
Yes! Since the majority of kids in high/mid weren't rich, cool, or popular, by definition, the majority of kids in high/mid felt like outsiders/felt it sucked/hated school at one point or another between 7th and 12th grade. But like Boy Meets World, or The Wonder Years, it really *is* part of growing up. And you wake up one day and realize it didn't kill you - that you're still here. And...I don't know. For that reason alone, I've got to agree, and say it's kind of worth it. If only so you can have a Garden State moment with your equivalent of Natalie Portman in a bathtub when you're in your 20s, and have a good cry about how adolescence fvcked you over. For goodness sake, let's not take that away from this kid! 😎
Yah. He spent his friday nights studying for the MCAT.
Yeah because a lot of pre-meds out there "lived life" 🙄 He missed out on college and not much else.
If you made it that far, most people had to sacrifice a lot of their social life.
The kid is special, there was no way in the first place that he would live a normal life anyways. For every jocks who partied everyday and serial dated, there are at least four people who hated high school.
Like I said, he probably doesnt even have any idea what he missed out on in the first place, and by the looks of it, at least his peers accepted him.
Unless you are at least 60 years old, don't talk to me about living life to the fullest.... None of us are doing that right now, or we wouldn't be in school.
Perhaps the question is whether or not he'd even enjoy his childhood and teen years?
If he is as 'smart' and as 'genius' as he is reported to be, he may not like or want or even desire the same things as the average person.
He'd probably be bored to tears in a regular school program and perhaps even be picked on all the time.
I know that I wasn't ready for college at 16 I graduated Highschool at the age of 16 and started college right away!! I ended up messing up and wasting a year in a half of my life making to many mistakes and doing alot of things I was not supposed to.
But those mistakes and the doing of things I wasn't supposed to do, really helped me mature and appreciate life as well as value it!!!!!!!!😳
I met that kid on the interview trail last year... He must have been the most socially awkward individual I have ever met. In the evening we went to a bar that clearly said 21 & older but luckily they did not check our IDs.
I know that the program we interviewed at together did not accept him because they did not feel comfortable with his social behavior. Sure, he is very smart but I feel that he does lack a lot of social skills that can only be gained through interaction with other people.
Anyone else's respect (and/or interest) in U of C just go down just a teeny bit...?
Yup, but my respect was pretty low to begin with.
the point of medicine is to help others no? if he does md/phd when he's 12, that's a decade more of research time. for a kid as bright as him, that could be the next big discovery. do you think albert einstein would care if he wasn't able to get drunk/party in college?
the only regret i would is that by the end of med school + fellowship training or an MD/PhD, i'll be almost 30. that means i'll only have ~30 good years ahead of me. if i could bump that up to 40, i'd be ecstatic. i'd give up my miserable MS/HS years in a heartbeat. i'm pretty sure i learned 5X more about life in college than in HS. in HS, all i learned was that the cool kids were unmotivated, rich, and stupid and that the majority of ppl wanted to be cool and not themselves. in college at least being cool takes second place to being your own individual.
the only regret i would is that by the end of med school + fellowship training or an MD/PhD, i'll be almost 30. that means i'll only have ~30 good years ahead of me. if i could bump that up to 40, i'd be ecstatic. i'd give up my miserable MS/HS years in a heartbeat. i'm pretty sure i learned 5X more about life in college than in HS. in HS, all i learned was that the cool kids were unmotivated, rich, and stupid and that the majority of ppl wanted to be cool and not themselves. in college at least being cool takes second place to being your own individual.
There is no possible correlation between Einstein and this young kid. Einstein just wanted to learn and understand how the world functions and not become a doctor at 12 years old.
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Are you serious about this? Wow. But I thought he was accepted in 2003?
I think people are missing the point when they focus in on "what's so great about middle school, really?" The events he misses with the lack of a childhood are not what matter -- it's the socialization that occurs during those years that are critical. I would agree that having the opportunity to pursue a supreme education would trump all the piddly stuff he might miss out on in his childhood. But failing to develop emotionally is a very big deal, and a very real danger in this situation.
I agree.. I went to an accelerated high-school program (5 years of high-school in 2.. but I entered after 2 years of highschool, so it helped me skip a grade). For some of my classmates who graduated when they were 15/16, I definitely thought the "normal highschool experience" (which bored me to tears) would have been helpful.
On the other hand, with genius/gifted children, it's a chicken-and-egg type of thing.. you can't say that in a normal high school they would've become a normal person. In fact, there is a lot of research that says the opposite - you have to put your child in a special education environment with similar peers for them to develop normally. In a normal high school environment, not only do they not achieve their "full potential" but they also suffer socially and emotionally, being on the lower social rungs as well as not identifying with their peers.
Unfortunately, financial, locational and logistical obstacles will arise - what if you can't afford a special program, what if you're not near one, what if your kid is too damn smart (which I guess the 12 year old med student would fall into). Then homeschool is a reasonable alternative, in my opinion...
And we should keep in mind these are essentially outliers in human intelligence, and it would be naive to make judgements based on your personal experience (unless you happened to be one of those outliers). Especially in cases of perceived happiness, really, we are all individuals in what we want. Maybe that kid is really into S&M and would've been kicked out of highschool as a result!
med schools are getting their moneys worth with this kid though...he'll be practicting ~12 more years than trad doctors
if everyone went to med school at age 12 maybe we'd find an end to the doctor shortage
if everyone went to med school at age 12 maybe we'd find an end to the doctor shortage
Did anyone learn anything in high school or middle school? The only thing they do is allow you to age, mature, experience life. Obviously he is smart, but he will probably be one of the most socially ackward kids/doctors around. If your parents drove you to study high school stuff when you were 8, you would probably learn it fine. And as far as graduating in 3 years, all the kid did was study. his mom went to class with him to take notes for him. he didnt have a life outside of school and learning. does that create a well rounded individual. seriously, he may be a genious in his studies, but he knows nothing about life, leading a sports team, etc... Life experiences are what make you, not studying biochemistry in your room for 6 hours at age 12.
The point is that this kid is gifted and would most likely not had fit in with the other kids.
I used to work with special ed and gifted kids in high school, and the social ineptitude that they displayed then doesn't really favor the point that he would have learned many social skills there either....
What can a regular school do? The kid is writing scientific papers at age 12, they couldn't have possibly kept him at the same level as other 12 years old without damaging him furthermore.
What was he supposed to do? Wait 10 years before applying? What would he be doing then?
There are some who don't care. And then there are some who don't care so passionately that they bother to write a post that says, "who cares ..."
um, twice.
I doubt you met him last year, since the article is published in 2003, unless you mean he was a medstudent talking to prospectives. But even then, I don't see him as the type to go to bars (when he's obviously underage--and he's Asian, so if he's 15, he probably looks like 12) and talk to prospectives.
To the rest of you haters: stop hating. He's young but he's brilliant, and he sounds perfectly happy with what he's doing with his life. How can you say what's best for him, when you can't possibly comprehend what it's like to be a child prodigy?
He probably wouldn't have fit in w/ the other kids, but that makes it all the more reason why he shouldn't be a doctor 😛. He can't relate to his patients. I'm not saying you have to have done so completely because that's never possible, but it helps. For instance, say he goes into family medicine and has to examine an 8 year old kid. I'd think it be hard for him to make conversation. "So, what are you into?" "Basketball and band." "Really? That's cool. BTW, what's basketball? I've never touched one in my life. I've seen it on TV though." haha, ok, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the picture. Doctors should be able to talk to their patients about things beyond their injury or illness, even if it's about a superficial topic like who's the going to be the next Heisman Trophy winner or what vacation places are fun to go to. I doubt he'd be able to have a conversation about those things.
He's an MD/PhD, which means he'll likely end up doing mostly research. If I remember correctly, academic physicians, especially MD/PhD's, spend ~85% of their time doing research, and ~15% doing clinical work. Some do 100% research.
If he does do clinical work, he won't treat patients independently until after school and residency. By then he'll be in his mid 20's, which isn't that bad. Or he might go into Pathology where he doesn't have patient contact. And some doctors who do have patient contact don't make much small talk anyway.
You people are just looking for anything about him criticize.
He might be young but he's not THAT socially ******ed....
Besides, as he grow up, he'll end up discover things that he never did before.
By the way, he does play basketball as a pastime ( taken from article).
And as repeated 10x already, he's MD/PhD.
Ok, all in all, because he's MD/PhD, he's not going to scr3w himself up. Hope there is no 12 year old MD only student.
I don't think there has been a 12 year old, but there has been a 13 year old.
This has to be one of the worst ideas ever. I could understand letting this child into a PhD program, as clearly he is extremely bright - but an MD is more than just brains. An MD has to be able to make decisions about difficult ethicial situations that a 12 year old can simply not handle. If this kid was straight MD, he would be an intern at 16. Would ANYBODY want a kid barely old enough to drive explaining the pros and cons of pulling the plug on their grandmother? Would you feel comfortable having a pelvic exam done by a 16 year old? There are just too many clinical situations that a teen (or pre-teen) should not be doing. Heck - the kid can't even drive himself to his rotations!
On top of that, doesn't the school want to create an environment where the students have a positive learning environment free of distractions? I can't imagine what it would feel like to be a mid to late 20 y/o student sitting in a PBL setting with a pre-teen. How can positive camraderie among a class be formed when the class feels they can't even go see movies rated higher than PG (per the news article).
What would the disadvantage have been to waiting a few years until this kid was older?
On top of that, doesn't the school want to create an environment where the students have a positive learning environment free of distractions? I can't imagine what it would feel like to be a mid to late 20 y/o student sitting in a PBL setting with a pre-teen. How can positive camraderie among a class be formed when the class feels they can't even go see movies rated higher than PG (per the news article).
What would the disadvantage have been to waiting a few years until this kid was older?
Yo, are yo' Sho, fo' sho'??
Hahaha, man, people, cut this kid some slack. Truth is, if any of you happened to have his talents as young as he did, you'd all do the same. It doesn't have to be jealousy. Just let him be. And spare me the "life experiences" crap. First off, we're all posting on teh internets. That means some percentile of your life experience is this - wow woopy. He sure is missing out on THAT. Second, whatever else you chalk up to life experience is irrelevant; digging into this line of defense is just a way of coping or perhaps trying to deny that you somehow feel inferior.
Seriously, so what? Let the issue go. There's always people better than us. This kid is one of 'em. Somewhere out there, somebody's better than him too.
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I agree with those saying he wouldn't fit in during middle school/high school. In terms of academics, without challenge, students often fall into boredom. I knew plenty of kids who were so damn smart and had so much potential, but because they weren't challenged properly, they slack off and get bad grades, get into poor colleges, and never achieve their full potential.
Why not? A kid with a 200 IQ has a 200 IQ for a reason. Although he has less experience than most of us, he probably has the intellectual capacity to understand what he is doing with his life.
Some of the greatest minds of all time weren't just great at math, arts, or sciences, they were also philosophers that contributed greatly to human thought. I'm just saying, a kid with that high of an IQ doesn't need his parents to tell him what to do. He's probably wise enough to deal with situations that medical students handle.
And just let him study, why not? This kid has great potential. He could make such a great contribution to medicine.
Some of the greatest minds of all time weren't just great at math, arts, or sciences, they were also philosophers that contributed greatly to human thought. I'm just saying, a kid with that high of an IQ doesn't need his parents to tell him what to do. He's probably wise enough to deal with situations that medical students handle.
And just let him study, why not? This kid has great potential. He could make such a great contribution to medicine.
For perspective: in martial arts, there is a trend in America to promote kids to black belt. Go to any local karate tournament and you will see millions of little kiddie black belts. They are the laughing stock of the martial arts world, ridiculed by MMA practitioners, BJJers, and any other resistance-pressure testing martial arts systems in the world.
Why? Simply because having a black belt means simply that you have the skill and experience to kick some ass. Proponents of watering down the black belt talk about how its about character, and teaching skill, and hard work, and a bunch of other crap that just lessens the traditional meaning of the belt.
For this instance, being an MD means you heal. Sure this kid may be socially awkward, really young looking, or whatever. But if he learns the skill to heal, it doesn't matter sh1t what the rest of you think about him, because he can do what the MD is for.
I'd be the first to hand a 9 year old kid a black belt if he could kick my ass, and I'd be also the first to shake the young MD's hand if he could heal patients.
Why? Simply because having a black belt means simply that you have the skill and experience to kick some ass. Proponents of watering down the black belt talk about how its about character, and teaching skill, and hard work, and a bunch of other crap that just lessens the traditional meaning of the belt.
For this instance, being an MD means you heal. Sure this kid may be socially awkward, really young looking, or whatever. But if he learns the skill to heal, it doesn't matter sh1t what the rest of you think about him, because he can do what the MD is for.
I'd be the first to hand a 9 year old kid a black belt if he could kick my ass, and I'd be also the first to shake the young MD's hand if he could heal patients.
We won't let it go because it's a good SDNN discussion. This has nothign to do w/ jealously or ego.
🙄 You will let it go, because at some point you're going to have to let it go and return back to your own life, if you have one. 😛
He probably would have. If some of us got picked on for getting straight A's in elementary school, you can imagine what a child like this with extraordinary talents would go through. Children can be very cruel.
I graduated high school at 16, and I have not regretted it even once. I was ready to move on, emotionally and intellectually I was more mature than my classmates, and for me high school was BORING. Yes, like that in capital letters. I wasn't being challenged enough and to spend another year there taking "filler" classes would have been a nightmare for me.
Obviously, he was much younger than 16 when he entered college, but take into consideration that his capabilities (at that point in life) were much higher as well.
Goodness gracious people, why has nobody pointed out the most dangerous thing in the article!!!
He's Asian for goodness sakes!!! He's lactose intolerant!!!
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I'm just kidding folks. 😛 About a few months ago I had to come to terms with the fact that I'm lactose intolerant. I'm Thai, and I **** water for hours after a glass of milk. 😀
So what are my feelings about the kid? I wish him luck. Maybe he'll get that "life" experience in the coming years. Having said that, my initial impression remains the same and that I think he should remain in research. I wish him the best, in spite of my jealousies (sp?).
He's Asian for goodness sakes!!! He's lactose intolerant!!!
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I'm just kidding folks. 😛 About a few months ago I had to come to terms with the fact that I'm lactose intolerant. I'm Thai, and I **** water for hours after a glass of milk. 😀
So what are my feelings about the kid? I wish him luck. Maybe he'll get that "life" experience in the coming years. Having said that, my initial impression remains the same and that I think he should remain in research. I wish him the best, in spite of my jealousies (sp?).
I heard of that kid before.
The funny thing is that no matter how well you do in your classes or what board score you get, this kid will be always in your face: I am 12 and in medical school.
The funny thing is that no matter how well you do in your classes or what board score you get, this kid will be always in your face: I am 12 and in medical school.
N
nebbione
Let me see, son-Sho:
Academics ... check check check.
Piano, Chopin, check. Check.
Ok, extra-curriculars:
Basketball. Check
Saxophone in blues club. <To Do: contact Henry at Blue Zone>
Olympic Staring Contests <To Do>
Idiosyncracies and Interests:
Enjoys certain child authors (it give him human-ity). Check.
Passionate about malpractice <Maybe cancel. He no experience in this>
LOVES stamp collections. <Go post office buy DC comic stickers, make fake montage, show press, call Dateline>
Perform mammogram
HE NOT READY. YOU GO PHD TOO. MUST BE 15 FIRST, then do breast exam. Then do breast surgery - 17. Call New York Times. First baby breast surgery.
---
Turn humanity into robotic despair. Check-mate.
On the brighter side, maybe he's just bright. He should be pushed, towards something he likes. And he should go throw around some shovels in the sandbox and cry once and a while too. May he find success and happiness, and may his parents allow him time. Mrs. Cho, he already has a lead on Wei down the street - by about a decade - so just drop the attitude and give him back the Lego, ya hear?
Academics ... check check check.
Piano, Chopin, check. Check.
Ok, extra-curriculars:
Basketball. Check
Saxophone in blues club. <To Do: contact Henry at Blue Zone>
Olympic Staring Contests <To Do>
Idiosyncracies and Interests:
Enjoys certain child authors (it give him human-ity). Check.
Passionate about malpractice <Maybe cancel. He no experience in this>
LOVES stamp collections. <Go post office buy DC comic stickers, make fake montage, show press, call Dateline>
Perform mammogram
HE NOT READY. YOU GO PHD TOO. MUST BE 15 FIRST, then do breast exam. Then do breast surgery - 17. Call New York Times. First baby breast surgery.
---
Turn humanity into robotic despair. Check-mate.
On the brighter side, maybe he's just bright. He should be pushed, towards something he likes. And he should go throw around some shovels in the sandbox and cry once and a while too. May he find success and happiness, and may his parents allow him time. Mrs. Cho, he already has a lead on Wei down the street - by about a decade - so just drop the attitude and give him back the Lego, ya hear?
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