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From: General Surgery News
ISSUE: OCTOBER, 2006 | VOLUME: 33:10

The Ups and Downs of Pay for Performance
Ready or Not, Here It Comes
Ted Bosworth


Los Angeles—In a recent symposium held during Digestive Disease Week, there was no shortage of disagreement on the issue of pay for performance. And while potential problems were envisioned for essentially every method proposed for using financial incentives to induce physicians to improve quality of care, participants also acknowledged that avoidable complications are expensive and occur often.

“There is an important study just published that suggests that in all areas of medicine, we get it right only about 55% of the time. It is amazing how consistent this was across the different conditions that were evaluated,” observed Lee N. Newcomer, MD, chief medical officer, United Healthcare, in Chicago. Referring to a study conducted by the Rand Corporation that looked at quality of care for 30 chronic and acute diseases in 12 communities in the United States (Asch SM et al. N Engl J Med 2006;354:1147-1156), Dr. Newcomer suggested “we clearly have a lot of room for improvement.”

One of the problems of pay for performance, which describes a system in which physicians are compensated for following specific protocols that are based on best practice, is that the proportion of medical conditions for which there are well-established and accepted guidelines remains small. According to George Diamond, MD, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles, only about 15% of clinical interventions fall into areas of practice where such guidelines might be appropriate, and these represent an even smaller amount of total revenues.

“Pay for performance only applies to what can be measured, and a lot of what we do cannot be measured. It also only tends to deal with one disease at a time when patients often have multiple medical problems,” Dr. Diamond said. Moreover, he expressed concern that pay for performance places too great a focus on processes and not enough focus on direct evidence that outcome has been improved. In a complicated patient who does not fit the guidelines, pay for performance could be a potential negative incentive for optimal management.

Measuring quality is the stumbling block for any methodology to change physician behavior, including nonfinancial methods that involve peer review. At the University of Utah, David J. Bjorkman, MD, dean of the School of Medicine, said the effort to enjoin physicians to adhere to protocols is much like “herding cats.” He reported that the first step is to enlist physicians to buy into the legitimacy of the measures of quality of care. Physicians are not likely to be impressed with imposed processes if they are not convinced that they yield better outcomes. However, the University of Utah is developing a large data pool which it hopes will provide definitive evidence for the approaches that yield the best outcome. The data should help, but physicians will need to believe them.

“We need a culture change,” said Dr. Bjorkman, a past president of the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy. Referring to the willingness of physicians to rapidly accept and adopt specific protocols when proven effective, he cautioned that “although we want innovation, we can no longer reward independence.” He warned that bureaucrats who monitor healthcare reimbursement have a strong interest in establishing cost-effective care and emphasized that “if we do not set the standards, then someone else will.”

At United Healthcare, a variety of initiatives are being pursued to encourage physicians participating in their system to deliver better care. One example provided by Dr. Newcomer was in colorectal cancer resections. Despite well-publicized standards that at least 12 lymph nodes should be excised for pathologic evaluation in these procedures, the U.S. average has remained unchanged over several years at a substandard nine lymph nodes. Citing 2004 data, Dr. Newcomer reported that 54% of colorectal cancer resections are incorrect on this basis. At United Healthcare, physicians who want to be on a referral list must now present five case reports in which they demonstrate that the procedure was done correctly with 12 lymph nodes excised.

“We have received very strong support from surgeons,” reported Dr. Newcomer, who noted that the American College of Surgeons has endorsed removal of 12 lymph nodes as a standard of care in colorectal cancer resections. He said that gastroenterologists in their system are now provided with a $75 incentive to call United Healthcare to report a new diagnosis of colorectal cancer so that a nurse can contact the patient, describe the importance of standard-of-care therapy, and encourage them to use a surgeon on their referral list.

Differentiating this approach from pay for performance, which he believes has limited applications, Dr. Newcomer says that more fees will be awarded for specific quality actions. Of the $75 fee paid to gastroenterologists who make a call to United Healthcare to report a new colorectal cancer diagnosis, he said “if you have to make an extra effort to help us solve a problem with quality of care, we will pay for that. It is only fair.” He also said there are many efforts “to make life easier for those physicians who are trying to provide both high quality and cost-effective care.” This not only includes placing them first on referral lists and providing higher financial rewards but looking for other forms of preferential treatment. He acknowledged that “we are at absolute infancy in learning how to do this well, but we would rather start with something than not move in this direction.”

The major problem with fee for service, Dr. Diamond said, is that paying more for more services encourages overutilization. The problem with managed care is that it can provide incentives to do less, particularly when coding is insufficient to compensate for a complex clinical case. A potential problem for pay for performance is that rewards are often provided so long after the activity that they benefit those already delivering good care but do little to change physician behavior. One novel approach first proposed by Dr. Diamond in 1993 (Diamond G et al. J Am Coll Cardiol 1993;22:343-352) is a fee-for-benefit program in which larger fees are paid for procedures that can be expected to yield larger benefits. This encourages physicians to perform those services most likely to improve outcome and avoid procedures with little likely benefit.

“On computer simulation, the costs go down, the quality of care goes up, and physician reimbursement goes up,” Dr. Diamond said. He said that the benefit from such an approach accrues to the payer, the provider and the patient. Although this approach has not come much closer to application than when it was proposed more than 10 years ago, he maintained that the principles remain valid.

One approach to improving quality of care favored by some third party payers, such as the U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), is simply to make data on quality of care available so that consumers can make their own choices. However, there are a number of problems with this approach. One is that there is no evidence that these data influence patient choices. Another is that many patients may have trouble interpreting what the data signify. However, the greatest concern is that physicians will feel compelled to avoid sick patients to reduce the risk of bad outcomes.

“There is always the danger of gaming the system,” warned Dr. Bjorkman. He questioned whether it can be concluded that a hospital discharging 91% of post–myocardial infarction patients on an ACE inhibitor is really doing a better job than one with 85% on this drug at discharge. “We have seen misrepresentation of data in our area in advertising. There are a lot of problems with this approach.”

There is agreement that data are the key to improving healthcare no matter what approach is imposed. In his review of initiatives to improve quality of care at the second-largest independent gastrointestinal practice in the United States (50 gastroenterologists and 450 employees), John Allen, MD, reported that one of the first steps was to enlist all the physicians to agree to be transparent in their practices and assist in collecting data to document relevant aspects of patient care. Providing an example with colonoscopy, Dr. Allen, in private practice with Minnesota Gastroenterology in Minneapolis, reported not only have they accumulated data on outcome and patient satisfaction but such details as what proportion of procedures started on schedule. These data have revealed a variety of ways to streamline procedures, improve quality of care and reduce costs.

As a practice, “you need to decide what to measure and agree on how to measure it, but you will be amazed at the ways in which these data can be used to improve care,” Dr. Allen reported.

“Evidence-based medicine” has been a catch phrase to identify delivery of care that is based on objective data. The recent Rand study indicates, however, that it takes more than objective data and clear endorsements by organized medicine to alter physician behavior. Whether a carrot, through such approaches as pay for performance, or a stick, through such negative incentives as a block on referrals, are used to change physician behavior, there seems to be agreement that one or both are coming.
 
I am shocked as to how many young men and women go into surgery (surgical training) without knowing the entire burden of low reimbursement and high malpractice.

Many private practices are closing their doors and the surgeons are becoming hospital employees at the mercy of the hospitals.

At this rate surgery as profession is dying. (At least private practice surgeons)
 
You are awfully doom and gloom! Are you in practice yourself or a resident?
 
You are awfully doom and gloom! Are you in practice yourself or a resident?

I have now been out in practice for three and half years and no one told me it was this bad while I was in training.

It may sound doom and gloom, but unfortunately it is the reality.

I see Physician Assistants (PA) doing better than I.

These are some of the payments I have received.

Lap Chole = $320 - $440 and that is assuming the patient pays his/her deductible
Lap sigmoid resection = $680 - $730
Open sigmoid resection = $780 - $800
Inguinal Hernia repair = $240 - $310
LAR = $780 - $880
Lap Appe = $250- $380
Open Appe = $480 (I have only done one)
Thyroidectomy = $610 -$710
Gastric resection = $800 -$910
Hemrroidectomy = $170 - $260
………….
The list goes on and on.


And if something goes wrong, (which complications happen to even the best of us), the patients and their families want millions. (For a three hundred gallbladder).
 
Hmm , then why the flood of superbly qualified american graduates is more and more attracted towards general surgery? I think this 80 hour residency thing is attracting more and more grads to the surgical field which was on its nadir before the law was put in to practice. Surgery can be difficult to pursue even in my home country without all these malpractice and court problems, but at least here the difficult part of surg is just the heavy work load and people don't have to worry about these preposterous court claims and all that . I must say i was shocked to discover what is actually being paid to a GS in US , because in some cases it is even less than what doctors get here in my home country for similar procedures!And that also without any malpractice hassles.Something must be done from the doctors' side to balance it,otherwise it seems like there'd be a day in US when every doctor will have to keep a lawyer sitting on another chair in his office to run his daily outdoors safely!
 
That's the problem with surgery.... millions for a $300 gall bladder...

Seriously... do defense lawyers put that out in court? "Your honor, my client is getting $300 dollars to do this surgery and the plaintiff is asking for a million dollar. Your honor he gets paid less than a doubled speeding ticket. Can't he just refund the client the $300 and call it even?"

For $300 per surgery... surgeons should be allowed to make the person sign "I can't sue you if something goes wrong" paper.
 
That's the problem with surgery.... millions for a $300 gall bladder...

Seriously... do defense lawyers put that out in court? "Your honor, my client is getting $300 dollars to do this surgery and the plaintiff is asking for a million dollar. Your honor he gets paid less than doubled speeding ticket. Can't he just refund the client the $300 and call it even?"

For $300 per surgery... surgeons should be allowed to make the person sign "I can't sue you if something goes wrong" paper.

www.medicaljustice.com
 
Hmm , then why the flood of superbly qualified american graduates is more and more attracted towards general surgery?

High paying specialties?

I am interested in hearing more about this aspect of surgery...I am a soon-to-be PGY1.
 
High paying specialties?

I am interested in hearing more about this aspect of surgery...I am a soon-to-be PGY1.

The more informed we are about the status of our field the better we can fight it.




From: General Surgery News

ISSUE: MAY, 2006 | VOLUME: 33:05

Another Day, Another Dollar Lost Working as a General Surgeon
Christina Frangou






Vail, Colo.---You've heard the complaints---general surgeons say they work more, expense more and get paid less than they did a decade ago. Now, a new study provides the numbers to prove it.

"We're getting squeezed from all sides. We are working harder, and the cost of running your office is going up just as your compensation is declining," said study author Karl LeBlanc, MD, MBA, director of the Minimally Invasive Surgery Institute in Baton Rouge, La.

At the 15th annual Rocky Mountain Advanced Surgical Symposium, Dr. LeBlanc presented a financial analysis of general surgery reimbursement trends, using data from the 2005 Medical Group Compensation and Financial Survey, the American Medical Association, the U.S. Department of Labor, Practice Support Resources, Inc., and his own practice data.

He looked specifically at Medicare compensation for hernia repair—the most common general surgical procedure performed in the United States—and found that reimbursements for all types of hernia repair have dropped markedly since 1993 in nominal dollars, reflecting the 1993 value of the services.

For open inguinal hernia repair (Current Procedural Terminology code 49505), reimbursements dropped nearly 30%, from $425 to $300 in 2006 in nominal dollars. When calculated in actual dollars, reimbursements rose $3, to $428 in 2005.

Payout for incisional hernia repair (code 49560) decreased by one-third, from $600 to $400 in nominal dollars. In actual figures, reimbursement increased by about $30 (see Figures 1 and 2, page 13).

Similar trends were seen in reimbursements for recurrent inguinal hernia repair (code 49520) and recurrent incarcerated inguinal hernia repair (code 29521). Physician reimbursements for those procedures fell from about $490 to $325 and from $540 to $395, respectively, when calculated in 1993 nominal dollars. The reimbursement fee in actual dollars increased over the same period by approximately $50 for recurrent inguinal repairs and $100 for recurrent incarcerated repairs.

Dr. LeBlanc also reported a significant decrease in the percentage of compensation that physicians take home. In 2004, physicians collected $294,000 with total charges of $1,193,418; in 2001, they collected $255,304 from total charges of $956,608. They were compensated less for more work units in 2004 than in 2001 (42 vs. 44.15; ratio of compensation to work relative value units). Meanwhile, annual total practice expenses have risen from an estimated high of approximately $180,000 in 1994 to $225,000 in 2005, after peaking in 2003 at more than $250,000.

The overwhelming majority of surgeons who heard the study presentation responded enthusiastically, applauding and nodding their heads. For many, the study was music to their ears, confirming a problem they had protested for many years.

"Hernia reimbursement is a big problem for surgeons," said Jay Gregory, MD, a private practice general surgeon in Muskogee, Okla. "I am seeing the same patient load as I was 10 years ago, but my income is down some 30% to 40%. I am glad that I do not have to do this job much longer. I have no other means of income other than what I can collect from the patients I serve."

Robert Sewell, MD, a general surgeon at the Master Center for Minimally Invasive Surgery in Southlake, Texas, said surgeons have been hard hit financially since Medicare, in 1992, introduced the Resource-Based Relative Value Scale (RBRVS), which bases payments on the resource cost estimated to provide the service. When managed care companies began using Medicare as the benchmark for their contract payments, the entire system of payments to surgeons became "tied to a seriously flawed process."

"While I have not bailed out of Medicare yet, I certainly have been tempted," said Dr. Sewell.

"It is no wonder that fewer and fewer individuals are willing to put in the enormous time and effort necessary to become a surgeon, and those that are already in the profession are looking for ways to either change their practice or take early retirement."

However, Dr. LeBlanc's study has significant limitations. Many of the calculations comparing expenses with reimbursements are based on Dr. LeBlanc's practice or specific geographic areas and may not reflect other practices. Moreover, a truly national analysis is likely not possible because few companies provide detailed financial information on expense costs and compensation.

Dr. LeBlanc's recent study is a follow-up of an analysis he published in 1999. In the original analysis, he concluded that "one cannot hope to generate enough income to rely upon a financially successful business" (JSLS 1999;3:305-314). For the updated study, Dr. LeBlanc used the same databases and drew similar conclusions.

The only major difference between the two reports is that the trend appears to be worsening. "In the last three years, we're doing more surgical procedures every week, but our gross take-home pay is falling," he said. "Given the choice today, I certainly wouldn't go into medicine. I didn't encourage my children to go into medicine. It's simply not financially viable. Why would you choose a profession where you work harder and make less?"

Dr. LeBlanc and other surgeons at the Vail meeting, which was co-sponsored by the American Society of General Surgeons, laid the blame with the American Medical Association (AMA) for not adequately lobbying for surgeons. They believe that the AMA represents too many specialties pressing for funds. The voices of surgeons---and general surgeons in particular---are lost in the mess of specialties clamoring for more money, they said.

Several years ago, the American Hernia Society approached Congress to get them to address the inequalities in the current system, with no response. "No one in Congress is interested," said Dr. LeBlanc. "As I see it, Congress is just playing on our Hippocratic Oath because they know we are going to continue to treat patients."

His study also looked at other financial aspects of running a general surgical practice. In one section, he found imbalances in hernia reimbursement for laparoscopic versus open repair. The open approach for recurrent and primary inguinal repairs continues to be more reimbursable than laparoscopic surgery, results showed, while laparoscopic repair of incisional hernias is better compensated than the open approach. Both open and laparoscopic incisional repairs are reimbursed far more on a per-procedure basis than other hernia repairs—"which doesn't make a lot of sense when you take into account the time and risk spent on an inguinal repair compared to an incision hernia," said Dr. LeBlanc.

His practice group limits certain high-risk operations to specific surgeons, to try to generate more volume and maximize procedures with better reimbursements.

General surgeons fared poorly compared with other specialties. In 2004, general surgeons charged an average of about $1.2 million and were compensated just under $300,000, or about 27%. Trauma, Ob/Gyn and orthopedic surgeons were reimbursed 30%, 29% and 27%, respectively. Bariatric, trauma, cardiothoracic, orthopedic and colorectal surgeons earned more compensation per work units than general surgeons (see Figure 3, page 13).
 
The more informed we are about the status of our field the better we can fight it.




From: General Surgery News

ISSUE: MAY, 2006 | VOLUME: 33:05

Another Day, Another Dollar Lost Working as a General Surgeon
Christina Frangou






Vail, Colo.---You've heard the complaints---general surgeons say they work more, expense more and get paid less than they did a decade ago. Now, a new study provides the numbers to prove it.

"We're getting squeezed from all sides. We are working harder, and the cost of running your office is going up just as your compensation is declining," said study author Karl LeBlanc, MD, MBA, director of the Minimally Invasive Surgery Institute in Baton Rouge, La.

At the 15th annual Rocky Mountain Advanced Surgical Symposium, Dr. LeBlanc presented a financial analysis of general surgery reimbursement trends, using data from the 2005 Medical Group Compensation and Financial Survey, the American Medical Association, the U.S. Department of Labor, Practice Support Resources, Inc., and his own practice data.

He looked specifically at Medicare compensation for hernia repair—the most common general surgical procedure performed in the United States—and found that reimbursements for all types of hernia repair have dropped markedly since 1993 in nominal dollars, reflecting the 1993 value of the services.

For open inguinal hernia repair (Current Procedural Terminology code 49505), reimbursements dropped nearly 30%, from $425 to $300 in 2006 in nominal dollars. When calculated in actual dollars, reimbursements rose $3, to $428 in 2005.

Payout for incisional hernia repair (code 49560) decreased by one-third, from $600 to $400 in nominal dollars. In actual figures, reimbursement increased by about $30 (see Figures 1 and 2, page 13).

Similar trends were seen in reimbursements for recurrent inguinal hernia repair (code 49520) and recurrent incarcerated inguinal hernia repair (code 29521). Physician reimbursements for those procedures fell from about $490 to $325 and from $540 to $395, respectively, when calculated in 1993 nominal dollars. The reimbursement fee in actual dollars increased over the same period by approximately $50 for recurrent inguinal repairs and $100 for recurrent incarcerated repairs.

Dr. LeBlanc also reported a significant decrease in the percentage of compensation that physicians take home. In 2004, physicians collected $294,000 with total charges of $1,193,418; in 2001, they collected $255,304 from total charges of $956,608. They were compensated less for more work units in 2004 than in 2001 (42 vs. 44.15; ratio of compensation to work relative value units). Meanwhile, annual total practice expenses have risen from an estimated high of approximately $180,000 in 1994 to $225,000 in 2005, after peaking in 2003 at more than $250,000.

The overwhelming majority of surgeons who heard the study presentation responded enthusiastically, applauding and nodding their heads. For many, the study was music to their ears, confirming a problem they had protested for many years.

"Hernia reimbursement is a big problem for surgeons," said Jay Gregory, MD, a private practice general surgeon in Muskogee, Okla. "I am seeing the same patient load as I was 10 years ago, but my income is down some 30% to 40%. I am glad that I do not have to do this job much longer. I have no other means of income other than what I can collect from the patients I serve."

Robert Sewell, MD, a general surgeon at the Master Center for Minimally Invasive Surgery in Southlake, Texas, said surgeons have been hard hit financially since Medicare, in 1992, introduced the Resource-Based Relative Value Scale (RBRVS), which bases payments on the resource cost estimated to provide the service. When managed care companies began using Medicare as the benchmark for their contract payments, the entire system of payments to surgeons became "tied to a seriously flawed process."

"While I have not bailed out of Medicare yet, I certainly have been tempted," said Dr. Sewell.

"It is no wonder that fewer and fewer individuals are willing to put in the enormous time and effort necessary to become a surgeon, and those that are already in the profession are looking for ways to either change their practice or take early retirement."

However, Dr. LeBlanc's study has significant limitations. Many of the calculations comparing expenses with reimbursements are based on Dr. LeBlanc's practice or specific geographic areas and may not reflect other practices. Moreover, a truly national analysis is likely not possible because few companies provide detailed financial information on expense costs and compensation.

Dr. LeBlanc's recent study is a follow-up of an analysis he published in 1999. In the original analysis, he concluded that "one cannot hope to generate enough income to rely upon a financially successful business" (JSLS 1999;3:305-314). For the updated study, Dr. LeBlanc used the same databases and drew similar conclusions.

The only major difference between the two reports is that the trend appears to be worsening. "In the last three years, we're doing more surgical procedures every week, but our gross take-home pay is falling," he said. "Given the choice today, I certainly wouldn't go into medicine. I didn't encourage my children to go into medicine. It's simply not financially viable. Why would you choose a profession where you work harder and make less?"

Dr. LeBlanc and other surgeons at the Vail meeting, which was co-sponsored by the American Society of General Surgeons, laid the blame with the American Medical Association (AMA) for not adequately lobbying for surgeons. They believe that the AMA represents too many specialties pressing for funds. The voices of surgeons---and general surgeons in particular---are lost in the mess of specialties clamoring for more money, they said.

Several years ago, the American Hernia Society approached Congress to get them to address the inequalities in the current system, with no response. "No one in Congress is interested," said Dr. LeBlanc. "As I see it, Congress is just playing on our Hippocratic Oath because they know we are going to continue to treat patients."

His study also looked at other financial aspects of running a general surgical practice. In one section, he found imbalances in hernia reimbursement for laparoscopic versus open repair. The open approach for recurrent and primary inguinal repairs continues to be more reimbursable than laparoscopic surgery, results showed, while laparoscopic repair of incisional hernias is better compensated than the open approach. Both open and laparoscopic incisional repairs are reimbursed far more on a per-procedure basis than other hernia repairs—"which doesn't make a lot of sense when you take into account the time and risk spent on an inguinal repair compared to an incision hernia," said Dr. LeBlanc.

His practice group limits certain high-risk operations to specific surgeons, to try to generate more volume and maximize procedures with better reimbursements.

General surgeons fared poorly compared with other specialties. In 2004, general surgeons charged an average of about $1.2 million and were compensated just under $300,000, or about 27%. Trauma, Ob/Gyn and orthopedic surgeons were reimbursed 30%, 29% and 27%, respectively. Bariatric, trauma, cardiothoracic, orthopedic and colorectal surgeons earned more compensation per work units than general surgeons (see Figure 3, page 13).

You know what I dislike about this damn article....

What did the ASGS do? They went and blamed the AMA.... For heaven's sake wake up... Everytime I have been on some hospital meeting or some board meeting or some important gathering and God-forbid national conference like the AMA, AOA or whatever... the surgeons are the ones 'too busy' to go... and I understand that their schedule is insane.. but so is the schedule of many other doctors in a lot of specialties... and more importantly..... if you don't take the time to remind people that your needs are important... then they ain't important enough!

Further.... the problem is not just in surgery... RUV of all specialties have been dropping like mad. Primary care is having major problems and the subspecialties are starting to feel the heat... Surgery is so busy with their schedule that they didn't realize the problem has been there for quite a while now... The AMA has been preaching about the issue of reimburisement for years and strong societies like the ASGS has been ignoring it until recently they realized "Hey.... my pocket is empty... what about all that work I did."

*rant ends*
 
"As I see it, Congress is just playing on our Hippocratic Oath because they know we are going to continue to treat patients."

That's exactly what it is.....
 
That's exactly what it is.....

I have been out of fellowship for three and half years, and what is absurd is that I can’t even afford to live within 30 to 40 minutes from the hospital, which I run in and out of for emergency surgery call. ---- This is wrong!

This society, health insurance companies, malpractice lawyers, and even hospitals are taking advantage of our good will ------------------and our weakness is the oath. (Hippocratic Oath)


The lawyers, hospital administrators, Nurse-Practitioners, physician assistants are all laughing to the bank on our liability, license, and long training as surgeons.
 
I have been out of fellowship for three and half years, and what is absurd is that I can’t even afford to live within 30 to 40 minutes from the hospital, which I run in and out of for emergency surgery call. ---- This is wrong!

This society, health insurance companies, malpractice lawyers, and even hospitals are taking advantage of our good will ------------------and our weakness is the oath. (Hippocratic Oath)


The lawyers, hospital administrators, Nurse-Practitioners, physician assistants are all laughing to the bank on our liability, license, and long training as surgeons.

Would YOU pay a mechanic that swore an oath to repair your car regardless of ability to pay? Would you insure it? Why bother? Well...maybe you would...now think of your typical patient. Would they?
 
I wonder what would happen if all surgeons in a city decided that anyone who wants to have surgery will have to pay upfront the surgeon and anesthesiologist fees..... Silly me... the hospitals would hire surgeons from another city of a better or even same wage.
 
The future of medicine (every field) is in trouble. Our generation of doctors are going to have to be vigilant w/ lobbying efforts and fight for out turf. Past generations were too passive, now we are paying the price. Every other field can strike if they are treated unfairly, why can't we? I will have completed 14 years of school including undergrad when I graduate, do you think someone else who trained this long would work for free? Nurses will not work w/o hourly wages, why do we get $hit on?
 
The future of medicine (every field) is in trouble. Our generation of doctors are going to have to be vigilant w/ lobbying efforts and fight for out turf. Past generations were too passive, now we are paying the price. Every other field can strike if they are treated unfairly, why can't we? I will have completed 14 years of school including undergrad when I graduate, do you think someone else who trained this long would work for free? Nurses will not work w/o hourly wages, why do we get $hit on?

Surgery has a hard time striking cause of EMTLA... gotta take emergencies....

Not true for most other specialties.
 
I have been out of fellowship for three and half years, and what is absurd is that I can't even afford to live within 30 to 40 minutes from the hospital, which I run in and out of for emergency surgery call. ---- This is wrong!

This society, health insurance companies, malpractice lawyers, and even hospitals are taking advantage of our good will ------------------and our weakness is the oath. (Hippocratic Oath)


The lawyers, hospital administrators, Nurse-Practitioners, physician assistants are all laughing to the bank on our liability, license, and long training as surgeons.




Amen brotha. I am an anesthesia resident at a major hospital with a top surgery program, and I see everyday how you guys get worked. And for diminishing returns once you get out. The cuts to the bone in reimburement are heading our way as well. I maintain that we as physician need to stand up for ourselves and put people on notice---that we will not stand for this. It's bad for us, and it's bad for our patients, whether they realize it or not. As those ultimately resonsible in health care, we need to take control. If this means unionizing---all attending physicians---and threatening or ultimately staging a walkout, so be it. I would go to bat for my surgery, peds, or IM colleage. We need to do something the groups that represent us don't do--we need to draw the line, and in a lot of cases we need to fight to get back what we have earned--respect, control over our careers, and reimbursement that our elders have somehow allowed to slip away.
 
Amen brotha. I am an anesthesia resident at a major hospital with a top surgery program, and I see everyday how you guys get worked. And for diminishing returns once you get out. The cuts to the bone in reimburement are heading our way as well. I maintain that we as physician need to stand up for ourselves and put people on notice---that we will not stand for this. It's bad for us, and it's bad for our patients, whether they realize it or not. As those ultimately resonsible in health care, we need to take control. If this means unionizing---all attending physicians---and threatening or ultimately staging a walkout, so be it. I would go to bat for my surgery, peds, or IM colleage. We need to do something the groups that represent us don't do--we need to draw the line, and in a lot of cases we need to fight to get back what we have earned--respect, control over our careers, and reimbursement that our elders have somehow allowed to slip away.

Exactly, if we are unhappy and discouraged are we doing our best job? Also, the general public still has the misconception that we are all millionaires and for some reason are basically viewing us as the bad guys. Yeah, stick it to the doctor! He makes enough money anyway! The lower ranks are getting killed as we speak and it's creeping it's way up the food chain. What happens when there are no Family Docs or internist to refer pts? What happens when obgyn b/c so litigious that no one will deliver a baby? Yes someone might do the job for less money, but is that safe for the general public. Who would you want taking care of your mother or father? Someone who got a masters degree? Our generation has to educate the public about the issues that tearing the profession apart. The only time they hear anything is on the evening news from some @sshole politician w/ a business or law degree.
 
Exactly, if we are unhappy and discouraged are we doing our best job? Also, the general public still has the misconception that we are all millionaires and for some reason are basically viewing us as the bad guys. Yeah, stick it to the doctor! He makes enough money anyway! The lower ranks are getting killed as we speak and it's creeping it's way up the food chain. What happens when there are no Family Docs or internist to refer pts? What happens when obgyn b/c so litigious that no one will deliver a baby? Yes someone might do the job for less money, but is that safe for the general public. Who would you want taking care of your mother or father? Someone who got a masters degree? Our generation has to educate the public about the issues that tearing the profession apart. The only time they hear anything is on the evening news from some @sshole politician w/ a business or law degree.

I agree!!




Many of the senior surgical attendings, who have enough referrals to survive, are refusing to take ER call, refusing to accept Medicare patients, and refusing to take on complex cases because of low reimbursement and high malpractice.

This is not good for patient care or access to health care.

If you can help it, who wants to wake-up at 2 A.M. to take a “hot” Gallbladder/Appe to the OR for $200 dollars and assume all the responsibility?
 
Does it make sense to think that if reimbursement keeps on dropping dropping then less ppl will go into GS and thene ventually there will be a shortage and prices will go up alot? Supply/demand style?
 
Does it make sense to think that if reimbursement keeps on dropping dropping then less ppl will go into GS and thene ventually there will be a shortage and prices will go up alot? Supply/demand style?


I dont think people go into general surgery for money... It's what they want to do. There is no real money in general surgery.... If you take the extra hours an average surgeon works into account when you calculate how much a surgeon should be paid... it comes out to be similar to a PCP (overtime as an attending should be looked at as 1.5 times the regular hourly pay.)

You can probably argue that the specialties are a different scenario.
 
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