University of Utah

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Andrew_Doan

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mjl34 said:
Utah - great location; surgical volume is the best in the country with lots of autonomy; they just got approval for a third spot which makes it even better; you have to do your internship there where you do 4 months of ophtho (q3); you work hard all three years; they're building a new eye center in 2 yrs; another program that I think will be top-ten status within the next few years; overall - clinical powerhouse with growing academic status (and another personal favorite).
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xaelia said:
Utah has a fantastic new facility, impressive surgical numbers, happy residents, some great faculty, affordable, clean city - half an hour to some of the best skiing in the world, lots of new developments in the city related to the 2002 Olympics. The only drawback to the location is the high LDS population, which may or may not be a problem to you. Only three residents a year, so you take primary call for two years q6. Apparently a lot of nights, particularly in the winter, you get a full-night's sleep and don't have to come in. You do your internship in Utah's IM program with four months of VA clinic doing pre-op evaluations in the middle of it; the residents seemed to think it was an okay arrangement. No research time built-in to your schedule until PGY-4. If they had four residents a year, with primary call for only one year, and more independent time, it would be awesome - though lose some of their uniqueness with huge surgical numbers.
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xaelia said:
~60% of Utah's population is LDS. This may or may not restrict or impact your social and living experience, depending on your own personal religious, political, and social views. All your other examples of concentrated homogenous populations may be assessed in a similar fashion.

I suppose I editorialized a little too much by calling it a "drawback," but it is to me. Others are welcome to disagree. We are all beautiful and unique flowers.
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Wolverine98 said:
Salt Lake itself is more 50-50.
I grew up in Salt Lake, and both of my parents live there (one of them is on faculty at the Moran Center); so I'm relatively comfortable answering questions people have about that here or by PM.
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Wolverine98 said:
If any of those things are a drawback for you, then yes. While you're in residency to train primarily, that doesn't mean you have to be miserable in the place you live. If you're the kind of person who likes to go out to the bar or club on the weekend when you're not on call, Salt Lake will be a tougher place to live for you.

That aside, there is some legitimacy to the concern concern from a training perspective also, since the population is also predominantly white.

Let's say you want to go into glaucoma. You get great surgical experience, and you see a ton (and I mean A TON) of PXF. The downside is you see a very small fraction of african-americans, especially when compared to inner-city populations. Each set of patients will present their own set of challenges, and you want to learn to deal with as many of them as possible. It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me (and it wasn't when I was applying), but that doesn't mean it's something you shouldn't keep in mind.
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Utah is an unbelievable program.

Pros:
1. Surgical numbers that are unbelievable, generally tops in the US
2. New $54 million dollar Moran Eye Center (which replaced the other Moran Eye Center, built just 14 years ago, because they outgrew it!) stocked with its own research facilities along with clinical facilities.
3. Integrated PGY-1 experience where you spend 4 months doing ophthalmology. This leads to your PGY-4 when you have FOUR MONTHS of elective time.
4. International medicine- Dr. Tabin is world-renowned, and most residents do a 3-weeker abroad during their PGY-4. Very, very well-connected if you want to do work abroad in the future.
5. Happy happy residents, super nice PD and super nice Chair set the tone for the whole department.
6. More than your fair share of heavy hitters.
7. Location- white snow-capped mountains visible from Moran Eye Center, tons of skiiing within an hour of the Center. Unbeatable outdoor life. Beautiful.

Cons:
1. As some have noted above, perhaps the perceived dominance of the LDS population in the area...not much to add to that, but Salt Lake City and Utah in general are both growing, lots of people from out of town moving in due to the great quality of life, friendly atmosphere, great outdoor activities. There are bars in town, beer available everywhere from what I hear. Is it a more conservative area than others in the US? I'm not sure. There's definitely at least partially a hippie spirit and definitely an outdoorsy spirit that infuses the area, and that impacts the society there as well as the presence of the LDS community. The medical center is, like most, a very diverse place to work.

Awesome program combining great resident training with a very friendly atmosphere, tons of surgeries and great clinical training. Unique international perspective as well. A top-notch residency program.
 
Bump...
Does anyone have any more information on this program? Particularly anyone who has rotated or interviewed here?
 
I interviewed there. My overall impression was very very positive. I can't believe that such a gem is in Utah of all places.

*the good:
- tons of money and tons of surgery. they boasted the most cataracts of any program I interviewed at. I don't know if it's a graduation requirement, but it was one to get 300. that's insane. they have a fund for residents from which they pay for all sorts of cool stuff, like cell phone bills, fridges, jackets, etc... seemingly not a big deal in med school, but these things add up to some extent
- their research is huge. the moran building has a whole basic sciences half with an animal lab in the basement. several of the faculty are MD PhD and offer science rotations if you want them, one of their faculty holds the youngest physician world record
- their chair is world renowned for phaco, he developed a ton of techniques (like chop) and is BFF with David Chang in CA.
- their international program, via Dr. Tabin, is second to none. I didn't see anything like it anywhere else
- they are trying to sell the program to you, not the other way around. that's reassuring to me.

*the bad:
- the chair has a bad relationship with a plastic surgeon in SLC, there was a falling out, and I think their community relationship has been poor since them (this dates back to the 90s)
- the admissions committee chair person runs the interview/admissions like a dictator, it was hard to crack a smile out of her, I felt really intimidated
- I got the feeling that their faculty haven't been as innovative as they have been in the past. Dr Crandall and Olson are getting old and they are really big pioneers. I really wonder what their next generation is going to produce.
- their fellowship info was kind of scarce, I heard that some residents failed WQE a year or two back and thus they upped their teaching. their residents don't read BCSC for example. I found that kind of odd for such a highly prestigious program (obviously a personal taste issue).

conclusion: I ranked Utah high and I feel confident that that was a good decision. it wasn't my top choice, but it was up there
 
I don't quite understand the obsession with super-high cataract numbers. It's great to get operating experience, but getting 300 cataracts comes at the expense of missing something else other programs with 150-200 cataracts are getting. I'm not sure why variety/diversity means less than getting an extra 50-100 cataracts. That being said, Utah is a very nice program.
 
Can any current residents or recent grads comment on their experience here? A typical week, call schedule, overall impressions?
 
Rotated here, didn't get an interview so I feel comfortable praising the program at this stage.

Utah is definitely an impressive program, and is located in a city with unparalleled access to the outdoors. Talk of which ski resort passes will be purchased this year and which hikes will be attempted this weekend are common in every clinic among residents, attendings, and support staff. The Moran building is an impressive edifice, and many of the faculty are involved in research that is...cool! Some very amazing projects ongoing with many big names in the field. Dedicated OR staff is very efficient at the Moran.

I don't believe any other program approaches the level of international outreach that Moran is involved in. Attendings are constantly returning from trips to places all over the world, and the infrastructure that has already been established makes it very easy for residents to make meaningful trips to places like Nepal or Africa. An international elective block is offered to all 3rd year residents. Younger residents are flown down to the Navajo nation on humanitarian trips as well.

The residents are definitely busy. Of the programs I have become familiar with, none approached the average number of calls that the residents reported getting on an average night or average weekend. Obviously this kind of thing is hard to nail down for sure, but I definitely got the impression that at Utah you come to work your butt off all 4 years (internship includes 4 months of busy Ophtho at the VA). The internship is required here, and I heard mixed things about it. Obviously its great to get quality exposure during 1st year, but it sounds like the medicine department kind of dumps on the ophtho prelims the worst gigs. All agreed it was worth the price and felt the internship is a definite strength.

As far as the "gut feeling" that ultimately is so important when it comes to ranking programs, overall Utah puts out a good vibe. The residents seem to get along well, and the relationship with attendings is good, although perhaps not the best I have seen (when it comes to feeling comfortable with questions in the middle of the night, etc.). I have heard strange things for years about who/why they interview and ultimately rank, and some of the rumors seemed true in person. 20+ people rotated here this summer, and only a couple received interviews (similar to last year). I've heard quite a few stories of broken "promises" to applicants, the latest just posted in the interview thread. This type of thing is probably common with competitive programs, just take what impression they give you about your standing with a grain of salt.

Overall an amazing program, and proud to be ranked number 10 by Doximity (if you buy into rankings). Much smaller than the other big name programs (3/year), which may be to your liking or not. Everyone works hard and plays hard, and opportunities for fellowship and research have to be as good as any other program in the country.
 
Loved this program. It’s hard not to. Moran is a massive clinical and research facility at the foot of beautiful mountains. The faculty are very welcoming and consider the residents closer to colleagues than “underlings”. The residents are nice, intelligent, and driven. They are extremely busy, and they have probably the highest surgical numbers in the country (400 cats now, 320ish after their 4th resident joins). They have a great intern year where you do some wards, EM, neurology, and 3-4 months of ophtho. They hit some laser minimums before the intern year is finished. Research in anything really, though strongest in cornea and retina. The chair was very nice, and the PD Dr. Pettey is fantastic. The associated medical complex includes a university hospital, and very nice stand-alone children’s hospital and Huntsman Cancer Center, all of which are connected by bridges. They match wherever they want for fellowship. The only con was less diverse patient population. Still, they have a massive catchment area and other unique experiences like famous international ophthalmology programs, clinic/surgery at the Navajo Nation, and free surgery day within SLC. Park city is also 20 minutes away and you get discounted ski passes to most slopes. It felt similar to Kellogg but with a nicer location (though I do like AA). Overall it has to be one of the best programs in the country, with great environment as well.
 
Is it true they had an open spot this year that they didn't match?
 
JMFF said:
Is it true they had an open spot this year that they didn't match?
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Not quite. We were told on interview day that they were expanding to 4 spots, saving one spot for one of their pathology/research fellows. We were still interviewing for 3 spots (well, really 2 spots).
 
Trichromatic said:
Not quite. We were told on interview day that they were expanding to 4 spots, saving one spot for one of their pathology/research fellows. We were still interviewing for 3 spots (well, really 2 spots).
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Hmmm. That's interesting that you were told that on interview day. I'm 99.9% certain that of the 4 residents that matched there, none of them were pathology/research fellows. I'm also not sure what you mean by "We were still interviewing for 3 spots (well, really 2 spots)."?

Regardless, this was an absolutely amazing program to interview at. Definitely one of my top choices, and there will always be a part of me that is sad not to be there (although I'm ecstatic to be going where I am and ultimately wouldn't change it). The faculty were amazing and some of the kindest people I've met (in a specialty where generally everybody is extremely nice). The research opportunities are among the best, their international opportunities are unmatched, and their clinical/surgical training is top-notch as well. Add all of that on top of the fact that they are in one of the most beautiful locations that I visited along the trail, and you've got an absolute winner! The residents seemed genuinely happy, and how could you not when you're receiving that kind of training, then with your free time you get to ski, hike, camp, bike, run, or do any of the million other things that Salt Lake City and the surrounding areas have to offer. Overall, I feel like no one could possibly go wrong applying here and ranking it as one of their top programs (if not THE top). To try and be fair and choose something that wasn't spectacular about the program, it seemed like their wet-lab was a little bit lacking. They did have an eye-si, but there were other programs who had very elaborate wet labs with lots of space, etc. So if that is something that is really important to you, it'd be worth it to ask the current residents their thoughts. In the end, however, it obviously doesn't make a huge difference since they have among the highest surgical numbers in the country, and even after adding their 4th resident, will still rival some of the programs with those high numbers.

Just my two cents...
 
I think he or she meant 2 spots because one of the spots went to a faculty member's child, not a bad thing but always hard to compete when that happens.


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Bluesclera said:
I think he or she meant 2 spots because one of the spots went to a faculty member's child, not a bad thing but always hard to compete when that happens.


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Lol... Oh man...


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That is what I meant, and no, it doesn't mean they didn't deserve it. Not at all! It does make it more difficult for others though (at least, realistically a smaller pool). Regarding the earlier post, I met their matched research fellow at another interview far from Utah. I won't give much away, but I know that it was this fellow that matched there based on our match document on Facebook. Whether that new 4th spot was truly open I can't say, but they alluded to it not being open on my interview day, though it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm sure that applicant was stellar. I agree-great program, location, and people.
 
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Loved visiting this Program. Salt Lake City is awesome and where else will you have the opportunity of going on a hike with residents after your interview day. Faculty here are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Leaders in their fields and carry themselves with a humble demeanor.

A huge plus of this program is the PGY1 (required), which gives you 4 months of Ophtho during intern year at the VA and working in continuity clinic with Dr. Pettey. At the VA, see all specialties as attending coverage alternates depending on day of the week. You will see a lot of the pre op patients for your seniors, helping them achieve those awesome 300+ phacos. Phaco surgery is backloaded with high volume. Have 2 dedicated OR days a week at the VA, plus any cases that come up during the week. You end up splitting time the VA with your fellow senior residents. Cover VA consults as a PGY1 as well. Take buddy call on weekends with PGY3 so you will have great exposure before your primary call begins PGY2.

1st year surgery will be with Oculoplastics. Primary call is split between first and second years, with second years not being on call over long holiday weekends. Call on weekends is only one day of the weekend (ie: friday overnight to saturday morning, saturday morning to sunday morning, etc.). On call, you cover Primary Children's, the University hospital (can't recall if VA as well or if people rotating at VA cover that).

Senior year have two months of electives, only program I visited that offered this. Can do one month international elective which the department will cover. $500 stipend for lenses, loops, etc. Free iPad.

One grand rounds presentation a year, 3 neuro cases split over all of residency, Ophtho questios paid, great strabismus numbers (high 30s to potentially in the 60s), strong plastics.
 
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