Reasons to not attend UMDNJ-Newark

Started by politik
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politik

politik

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I am a medical student at UMDNJ Newark. If I was told of the issues that I am experiencing right now at this school I would have never attended it. Btw, so that people would not think that UMDNJ was my only choice: I had 8 out of 10 interviews when applying and got in 4 other schools besides this one. My only reason to come here was cheap tuition and a family situation.
1) MGM class is a waste of lecture time since they read off straight from the powerpoint. However, this is not that bad of a problem because we all are used to study pretty much on our own. The exams are ridiculously nitpicky. They will not test you for understanding of the material but rather will pick some random stuff from let's say slide 63 in lecture 25--some random word in that slide and you should be expected to know it. What's worse is that this class WILL NOT prepare you for the shelf exam. We were told by 2nd years to basically throw out lecture notes at the end and restudy for the shelf from BRS Biochemistry. However, we only have 2 days btw the MGM final and the shelf exam.
2) Anatomy. Faculty is fantastic however, there are no lectures on it except a couple on Embryology which are taught by professors who barely speak English. You will have to study ALL of the anatomy on your own. And in lab, there is absolutely no guidance from the professors. Half of the time we don't even know if we are looking at the correct structure. So the major problem with this course is it's administration.
3) My biggest and everyone's issue--Physician's Core. During the interview they will try to sell you on wonders of this course. BS. It is terrible. You spend an entire Tuesday in useless lectures where instead of spending their time teaching us how to perform a medical exam, they lecture on stuff we don't even need to know (about 50 slides of stuff you do not need to know) and then spend 5 minutes in a hurried way on showing us how to do an exam. However, they do that with their backs turned to us so pretty much noone can see anything from that 5 minute presentation. Then you have to spend most useless 2 hours in small groups doing bull. After medical exam section we now have ethics section till the rest of the semester where you waste hours discussing one freaking case. To top it all off, I guess they don't have enough money to hire physicians and some small groups are not taught by physicians but by let's say a biochem professor or a psychologist. Please someone explain to me why I am not being taught Physician's core by a physician???????? And if you think that you can miss small group meetings because they are the most boring wastes of time you will ever experience. No. They only allow 1 absence for the entire year. But this is not the end. For our exam we were not told anything about it . We just had to memorize random sh^% from Bates. During the exam half of the questions were so ambiguous that when we were standing outside checking our answers people got the same wrong answers for questions. You would think that maybe the faculty would evaluate the quality of these questions? Their answer was absolutely not. If not ambiguous, their questions were picky, especially in anatomy areas that we have not studied yet. For instance, we did upper limb by now in anatomy but not lower limb. Guess what, in Core exam all of their questions dealt with examination of lower limbs and none with upper lims. And the questions were as detailed as when check for blah and blah pulse you check it to the right and below such and such ankle muscle. 😡😡😡
Also you have to do a preceptorship with a private practice physician for the entire year. I like it a lot however, only a couple of people got it at Newark University Hospital. The rest have it all across the state and I, for instance, have to drive for an hour each way if there is no traffic. It takes two of my friends who don't have a car 2 hours each way. Believe me, when studying for the exams every hour matters and when many of us have to spend on average 2 hours commuting to and from a 3 hour preceptorship, the whole idea becomes very time consuming. They should have done it once every two weeks for 6 hours at the office. Something like that. Btw preceptorship is every week for the entire year.
So, my point is: every school will have some issues. You might have bad administration in a class or two. But when there are major problems in all 3 classes then your life becomes hell. We do not have Pass/Fail but grades and on top of that they created an evaluation system for anatomy where students evaluate each other and that becomes part of your grade. Guess what: students decided to lower each other grades and did not give good evaluations to team members thereby creating a ruthless, untrusting and competitive atmoshphere. If before I was always more than willing to help my classmates, now I could care less and the class pretty much feels this way towards each other.
PS I apologies for multiple grammar and spelling mistakes--I was in a rush before anatomy lab
 
are there any other umdnj-njms students that could back this up? i'm not doubting what you're saying politick, im just worried because njms is actually my top choice--dean H. is amazing and the faculty (from what i've seen) seemed really helpful and involved. i would just like to get someone else's opinion on this one because you seem to have quite a few grudges against the school? is this due to the recent administration problems umdnj has been experiencing, or is it due to something else entirely? and if it is due to recent administration problems, then, from my understanding they have been working to correct those--will the situation be better by the time i have to enter medical school? (c/o 2012...so entering in 2008) i hope someone else can give me some insights on this issue and hopefully politick you can answer some of my questions cause it is my top choice right now so im sad to hear so many complaints against the school 🙁
 
The only alarming thing in your post regards the grading system (students backstabbing fellow students). And perhaps the lengthy commutes to the preceptorships (but you are in one of the most densely populated and heavily trafficked metro areas in the US, so that has to be part of the consideration - I for one am not interested in such a location for the very reason you cite)...

Otherwise it sounds like "welcome to every med school in the US" kinds of complaints...
 
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Let's say that all of that is true...which I am not there so I cannot say...I am confused as to why their match rate is so high...above national average...
 
Reply to Scrubsrfun's questions😀ean H is amazing; however, his in volvement with the school pretty much ends after you get in. He only went to the white coat ceremy and that's it. You will forget that he exists.
The administrations problems, money and other stuff they were writing about in papers: my financial aid package was amazing and that's why i put it as a reason to go there. We were also told that because of the money the good Core faculty was let go. Obviously I cannot put my name here but my facilitator is not a physician. She sounds ridiculous when she goes into her little speeches how "If I were a doctor then I would say this and that to the patient to be ethical" I don't care what she would have done if she were 90 years younger and actually went to medical school. I want to spend my 2 hours listening to a real physician telling me how this situation should be handled ethically and legally. If administered properly Physician's Core could be a great course where you learn how to do a medical exam and interview from Day 1. However, the way that it is taught becomes a huge waste and because they know it and we know it they enforce a ridiculously strict attendance, notification policy. Basically if you have to miss a small group session either you have to die or follow a long a$$ protocol on how to notify several people in the department. Common, we're not 5 years old anymore. In undergrad we never had such strict policies. And what's frusturating is that the class is so terribly run that you always have the urge to miss it. We get graded on participation in small groups (50%), so the first thing that flew out of our facilitator's mouth when she introduced herself was: "I just want to let you guys know that not everyone in this room will get Honors or High Pass. Some people will get just Pass, etc". Then when we started discussing the case, and as people were saying their opinions she was writing stuff next to our names. So now we are all wondering how the hell will she differentiate between us since we all pretty much say equal amount of bs. I strongly believe that creating situations like these in medical school is unnecessary.

I will try to reply to the last post about match rate, but I don't guarantee that this is why it is so high:
We have very strong kids in our class. Although, UMDNJ is a state school, about 50% of us comes from IVY Leagues (me being one of them and as you al know we are very very competitive). The other 50% come from Rutgers, NJIT and they are so freaking smart--all majored in engineering. Because we get graded on the exams and because the exams are very nitpicky (for ex. for anatomy you have to memorize every word in Moore's blue boxes besides other info; MGM-every slide) we study all the time. I have friends at other medical schools and they don't spend nearly as much time studyding as me and my classmates do. While I study they post their party pictures on facebook. So our study habits are crazy and that's why we do well on the boards. Then there are the clinical years and the University hospital rocks--you will see everything and will get to do everything. I actually can't wait till the 3rd year. I spoke to several 3rd and 4th years and they told me that that's when it gets a lot better because for each rotation you have to take shelf and not school exams and shelf exams are not as ridiculously picky as ours.
It's just watching my friends at other schools and the way things are here, now I feel that I could have had a much more balanced life at another school.
I also forgot to mention the lack of study space. We have a library and a tiny room off of lecture halls. The unfortunate thing is that people talk in both of those places. I am the type of person who needs quiet around me otherwise I get distracted. Yesterday I tried to study int he library and the girl sitting in front of me talked on the phone for 20 minutes. Library staff doesn't do anything.
The positives that I forgot to mention are: I really like our second years. They do CALM review for us before every exam and just go over important things we should know. And the scribe notes I found to be very usefull. It's $100 and you get MGM and Anatomy scribe notes for every lecture.
 
politik said:
Reply to Scrubsrfun's questions😀ean H is amazing; however, his in volvement with the school pretty much ends after you get in. He only went to the white coat ceremy and that's it. You will forget that he exists.
The administrations problems, money and other stuff they were writing about in papers: my financial aid package was amazing and that's why i put it as a reason to go there. We were also told that because of the money the good Core faculty was let go. Obviously I cannot put my name here but my facilitator is not a physician. She sounds ridiculous when she goes into her little speeches how "If I were a doctor then I would say this and that to the patient to be ethical" I don't care what she would have done if she were 90 years younger and actually went to medical school. I want to spend my 2 hours listening to a real physician telling me how this situation should be handled ethically and legally. If administered properly Physician's Core could be a great course where you learn how to do a medical exam and interview from Day 1. However, the way that it is taught becomes a huge waste and because they know it and we know it they enforce a ridiculously strict attendance, notification policy. Basically if you have to miss a small group session either you have to die or follow a long a$$ protocol on how to notify several people in the department. Common, we're not 5 years old anymore. In undergrad we never had such strict policies. And what's frusturating is that the class is so terribly run that you always have the urge to miss it. We get graded on participation in small groups (50%), so the first thing that flew out of our facilitator's mouth when she introduced herself was: "I just want to let you guys know that not everyone in this room will get Honors or High Pass. Some people will get just Pass, etc". Then when we started discussing the case, and as people were saying their opinions she was writing stuff next to our names. So now we are all wondering how the hell will she differentiate between us since we all pretty much say equal amount of bs. I strongly believe that creating situations like these in medical school is unnecessary.

I will try to reply to the last post about match rate, but I don't guarantee that this is why it is so high:
We have very strong kids in our class. Although, UMDNJ is a state school, about 50% of us comes from IVY Leagues (me being one of them and as you al know we are very very competitive). The other 50% come from Rutgers, NJIT and they are so freaking smart--all majored in engineering. Because we get graded on the exams and because the exams are very nitpicky (for ex. for anatomy you have to memorize every word in Moore's blue boxes besides other info; MGM-every slide) we study all the time. I have friends at other medical schools and they don't spend nearly as much time studyding as me and my classmates do. While I study they post their party pictures on facebook. So our study habits are crazy and that's why we do well on the boards. Then there are the clinical years and the University hospital rocks--you will see everything and will get to do everything. I actually can't wait till the 3rd year. I spoke to several 3rd and 4th years and they told me that that's when it gets a lot better because for each rotation you have to take shelf and not school exams and shelf exams are not as ridiculously picky as ours.
It's just watching my friends at other schools and the way things are here, now I feel that I could have had a much more balanced life at another school.
I also forgot to mention the lack of study space. We have a library and a tiny room off of lecture halls. The unfortunate thing is that people talk in both of those places. I am the type of person who needs quiet around me otherwise I get distracted. Yesterday I tried to study int he library and the girl sitting in front of me talked on the phone for 20 minutes. Library staff doesn't do anything.
The positives that I forgot to mention are: I really like our second years. They do CALM review for us before every exam and just go over important things we should know. And the scribe notes I found to be very usefull. It's $100 and you get MGM and Anatomy scribe notes for every lecture.
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politik..I respect your opinion and I'm interested to know bc I just interviewed there..do you find that your fellow classmates feel the same way..or do you feel that the minority of students feel this way? Thanks!
 
politik said:
I am a medical student at UMDNJ Newark. If I was told of the issues that I am experiencing right now at this school I would have never attended it. Btw, so that people would not think that UMDNJ was my only choice: I had 8 out of 10 interviews when applying and got in 4 other schools besides this one. My only reason to come here was cheap tuition and a family situation.
1) MGM class is a waste of lecture time since they read off straight from the powerpoint. However, this is not that bad of a problem because we all are used to study pretty much on our own. The exams are ridiculously nitpicky. They will not test you for understanding of the material but rather will pick some random stuff from let's say slide 63 in lecture 25--some random word in that slide and you should be expected to know it. What's worse is that this class WILL NOT prepare you for the shelf exam. We were told by 2nd years to basically throw out lecture notes at the end and restudy for the shelf from BRS Biochemistry. However, we only have 2 days btw the MGM final and the shelf exam.
2) Anatomy. Faculty is fantastic however, there are no lectures on it except a couple on Embryology which are taught by professors who barely speak English. You will have to study ALL of the anatomy on your own. And in lab, there is absolutely no guidance from the professors. Half of the time we don't even know if we are looking at the correct structure. So the major problem with this course is it's administration.
3) My biggest and everyone's issue--Physician's Core. During the interview they will try to sell you on wonders of this course. BS. It is terrible. You spend an entire Tuesday in useless lectures where instead of spending their time teaching us how to perform a medical exam, they lecture on stuff we don't even need to know (about 50 slides of stuff you do not need to know) and then spend 5 minutes in a hurried way on showing us how to do an exam. However, they do that with their backs turned to us so pretty much noone can see anything from that 5 minute presentation. Then you have to spend most useless 2 hours in small groups doing bull. After medical exam section we now have ethics section till the rest of the semester where you waste hours discussing one freaking case. To top it all off, I guess they don't have enough money to hire physicians and some small groups are not taught by physicians but by let's say a biochem professor or a psychologist. Please someone explain to me why I am not being taught Physician's core by a physician???????? And if you think that you can miss small group meetings because they are the most boring wastes of time you will ever experience. No. They only allow 1 absence for the entire year. But this is not the end. For our exam we were not told anything about it . We just had to memorize random sh^% from Bates. During the exam half of the questions were so ambiguous that when we were standing outside checking our answers people got the same wrong answers for questions. You would think that maybe the faculty would evaluate the quality of these questions? Their answer was absolutely not. If not ambiguous, their questions were picky, especially in anatomy areas that we have not studied yet. For instance, we did upper limb by now in anatomy but not lower limb. Guess what, in Core exam all of their questions dealt with examination of lower limbs and none with upper lims. And the questions were as detailed as when check for blah and blah pulse you check it to the right and below such and such ankle muscle. 😡😡😡
Also you have to do a preceptorship with a private practice physician for the entire year. I like it a lot however, only a couple of people got it at Newark University Hospital. The rest have it all across the state and I, for instance, have to drive for an hour each way if there is no traffic. It takes two of my friends who don't have a car 2 hours each way. Believe me, when studying for the exams every hour matters and when many of us have to spend on average 2 hours commuting to and from a 3 hour preceptorship, the whole idea becomes very time consuming. They should have done it once every two weeks for 6 hours at the office. Something like that. Btw preceptorship is every week for the entire year.
So, my point is: every school will have some issues. You might have bad administration in a class or two. But when there are major problems in all 3 classes then your life becomes hell. We do not have Pass/Fail but grades and on top of that they created an evaluation system for anatomy where students evaluate each other and that becomes part of your grade. Guess what: students decided to lower each other grades and did not give good evaluations to team members thereby creating a ruthless, untrusting and competitive atmoshphere. If before I was always more than willing to help my classmates, now I could care less and the class pretty much feels this way towards each other.
PS I apologies for multiple grammar and spelling mistakes--I was in a rush before anatomy lab
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Holy snikies....👎
 
Hey Pleasebelieveit,
People constantly bitch here. And this is very upsetting and that's why I decided to post on SDN cause I used SDN a lot when applying. I don't know everyone in class so I will not say 100% of students hate Core; however, everyone I talk to complaints about it. I try not to say my feelings out loud in school and that's why I felt I could post here and noone could recognize me.
Believe me, Core is just terrible and hopefully, they will take our evaluations to heart. Except for the long commutes people tend to like their preceptors. Commute does get annoying though when you have an exam the next day.
Anatomy professors are cool and I would disagree with anyone who says otherwise. They rock!!!! However, we don't really get any lectures from them except for a few on Embryo. I'd rather have anatomy lectures for hours than Core. You see professors (best ones are Dr Gilani, Dr Vassan and Dr De Fow) in the lab but since there are about 39 tables in there with 4-5 student at each, you'll be very lucky to get any one of them for a moment. That's why I think it is necessary for them to have formal lectures. They are great and could give us amazing lectures. But I don't worry too much about anatomy since NJMS students continuously get much higher anatomy shelf scores than the national average. I also maybe a little biased with anatomy reviews because I really love it--I love the lab dissections and reading Big Moore's blue boxes. The exam questions also makes us study this stuff like there is no tomorrow and this becomes very rewarding when you hear some medical problems on TV or in your preceptor's office and you actually know what's going on and can visulaize it. For instance, at my preceptor's 2 weeks ago he had a patient with rotator cuff injury and I knew exactly the muscles involved and what was going on--I could visualize it in my head. I strongly believe that anatomy lab is an honor--it is a once in a lifetime opportunity and only what 16000 out of 300 million people in this country get to do this. My Mom was a doctor so since I was little I used to look at anatomy pictures in her books, so for me to actually see each of these structures and to really see what we look like on the inside is really rewarding. This is the attitude I went into the class with and am enjoying it. There are students who complain about the lab but I think it's because tey just probably are not interested in dissections.
MGM is taught by a different professor every day. Straight from the powerpoints and they do not test concepts. I took genetics in undergrad, got an A from a professor who was like a drill sergeant, I can tell you DNA stuff if you wake me up in the middle of the night (I got a 14 on the Bio section of the MCAT and never studied for it); however, I didn't do that great on the 1st MGM exam that dealt with DNA. Why? Cause they asked stupid tiny things. For example, out of like 600 slides for the first exam, there was 1 slide that gave us a table with top 20 or so causes of death in USA. So on the exam one of the questions was: Which is the 5th cause of death in the US? Common, we just spent hours studying DNA and everything about it and this is what they ask. And a lot of questions are like--very random.

I know, my posts might sound silly and before med school I used to think that if I could survive Orgo, Bio and MCAT med school would be o'k. Just remember, that anatomy alone requires more memorization and time than orgo, bio and physics taken together. And every hour of your time will matter--there is just not enough time.
I am not saying that people shouldn't come here. Just really evaluate your other options if you have them very hard. I am upset because I had other schools, 2 of which ranked a lot higher than UMDNJ. I didn't go because money matters to me (I have above $100K in student loans from undergrad cause my parents could not help financially and I erally couldn't bare to take another 200K out for a private school. I also get to stay at home so I don't pay for housing). And it is upsetting when students around you are also unhappy.
I apologies for the long post. I am leaving school now and won't be able to reply for the rest of the day and that's why I tried to include as much info as possible.
Good luck on your applications!
 
I am also a medical student at njms and I completely disagree with most of the things politik said.
1) I usually go to mgm lecture, and while most of it is from the slides, they add many parts that help with understanding the material and what areas are important. It’s also a good way to see the material before studying for the exams. And wow, all of the questions do come of the slides and lecture, which is great. Where do u want them to come from??
-and that “random” question about causes of death-my preceptor told me that those questions come up very often on boards and proceeded to quiz me on all the leading causes of death and how they are different for ages/ethnicities, so maybe you should trust that we are being taught and tested on important things.
2) I’m sure u were aware that there are no anatomy lectures before beginning school. It does take a lot of self study time, but I enjoy the tbl format for anatomy. In lab, the professors are not standing over your shoulder or dissecting for you, which is the way it should be. They are always around, and I have never had a problem getting them to show us a structure, clarify something or help in any way. Most people have no problem with the peer evaluations for anatomy, which only make up 5% of our grade. The majority of people who are unhappy have between 90 and 99. I have NEVER encountered one “ruthless, untrusting, competitive” individual in our class.
3) Core-So for anyone wondering, “an entire Tuesday in useless lecture”=1-1.5 hours
The small groups for the physical exam were worthwhile in my opinion, maybe that depends on your group. I have had physicians as my leaders for all of the small groups, I don’t know if that is rare, but it was my experience. Preceptors were chosen through a lottery, I got my 2nd choice and its 10 minutes from my house. We only need to go 8 times a semester. And if you have such a problem with the distance, you can choose your own preceptor from any primary care doctor in the world. And yes, our core test did suck, but we got many points back. Most people who studied did very well, and the class average was an 80.8. and remember, they moved the test back to accommodate us and give us more study time.
- I do not study all the time, although I know people who study less and more often than I do. Everything we need to know for all the tests is clearly laid out for us, then it just comes down to studying. (I also agree that the calm reviews are veryyy helpful for studying) I haven’t had a grade below an 85, and I maintain a very balanced life. I go out most weekends, I hang out with my friends and family, I see my boyfriend almost every day, and watch my fair share of tv.
Obviously I have been overwhelmed and frustrated many times so far this year. But overall, I am so content and loving njms. I’m learning more than I ever imagined and also enjoying myself. I think that some people just look for things to complain about.
 
Thanks, njms2011, for posting a second opinion.

I'm really confused about the discrepancy in these posts, though. Anyone willing to provide a third opinion?
 
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Thanks for the 2nd perspective njms2011!....This thread has been rather interesting considering the conflicting perspectives, but I would be willing to bet that you would get this at any school---med school or any school for that matter....
 
I am a 1st year medical student at UMDNJ also and I think that politik gave a very bitter view of UMDNJ. Yes, we do have some hard days and I also bitch sometimes and I also did not like that MGM question although I got it right 😀😀; however, I have a feeling that all of us would bitch sometimes in every school and being so bitter about everything is just ruining his experience. Plus UMDNJ is not this bad. So here are my views on it and for the most part I agree with NJMS2011:
1) On the topic of personal life.
Having no life in medical school is a choice. For me, personally, getting honors in every class would mean not going out (Please don't bash me for this sentence because I did write that it is for me only). I try to do my best, I work myself as hard as I can; however, I also refuse to study all weekends long. Just like NJMS2011 I go out. I go out every weekend (Fri, Sat and Sun) when we don't have exams, and on the weeks that we do have exams, I come to school and study hardcore for 10 hours each on the weekends and then go out to dinner to take my mind off exams. Plus we only have exams every 3-4 weeks so it doesn't happen this often. We did have 3 exams in a row 2 weeks ago, but that was once and the next time we'll have this will be in December for finals and shelves. Yes, I will not honor all of the classes but I am also not just passing classes. I am doing well. I am also engaged, live with my fiance, and am planning a Manhattan wedding at the same time. If any of you are married or have siblings/friends that have gotten married, you probably know how much time and effort it takes to plan a traditional wedding. My fiance works very long hours on Wall Street and so he can't help me out that much with grocery shopping... you know miscellaneous home stuff when 2 people live together. I don't have a wedding planner, I also refused to have a maid, and yet with school, all of my going out and personal life responsibilities I find UMDNJ very manageable.
2) On the topic of Core.
I agree and disagree with politik and totally agree with NJMS2011 when it comes to preceptorships. We had a lottery for preceptorships. I live off campus in Jersey City; however, I knew that most students would put Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken areas as their top so I put my parents' hometown which is 1 hour away as my first choice and got it. So every Thursday I go to my preceptor and also see my parents. I also know of 1 other girl who did the same thing. My preceptor is awesome. For ex., yesterday I had to make up a missed preceptorship and had to go to his other office. I drove there in a very weird way. I just learned how to drive when school started cause I used to live in the city so I am not good with directions yet. So when it was time for me to go back he asked me how I was going to drive back and realized that I took a bad road. I told him that it was ok and I had no problem getting there so I wouldn't have a problem getting back. He refused for me to take that road and since the other much shorter road that he knew is a tad tricky, he insisted on leaving his practice for 15 minutes. He got in his car, told me to follow him, brought me out on the main highway before taking a u-turn back to his practice. He is amazing!!!!!!!!!! And guess what, driving for an hour to such a kind person beats traffic, time issues. Also, these doctors don't get paid for having us, and my preceptor just loves to teach. He let me go in the patients' rooms by myself to interview them from the second time I was there.
I also didn't like core lectures like politik so after a few I chose to miss them alltogether, so I can't complain about that since I get to sleep in every Tuesday 😴😴 Yes, we do have to attend small groups every tuesday and we only get 1 absence per year. I wish we were not required to attend them since I learn best on my own but this is part of the game. Btw, last week after our 3 exams, I completely overslept the small group and so used up my allowed absence. Because I never followed the notification protocol that politik mentioned I now have to go in and speak with the course director. It definetly won't be pleasant, but seriously, what's the worst that can happen? She'll tell me not to do it again. So I don't understand why Politik is stressing core so much. I bet I'll get an angry response from him, but I think that, Politik, you are just one of those people who loves to complain about eeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyything.
Seriously, SDNers, Core is not as terrible as he describes it. You'll be done by 12pm. If you want, you can miss the lecture alltogether, so you'll need to get in at 10am till 12pm. And preceptorships are great. And, yes, as NJMS2011 said you can chose your own doc before the lottery begins. And for small group, we have a similar lady for Ethics module as politik who is a hardcore biochem professor. So she likes to play doctor and does not like to consider the litigation aspect of medicine (apparently she thinks that doctors should not care about being sued and should just follow ethics 24/7 even if he will 100% get sued for that). She also gave us a speech about grading us very seriously, yada, yada, yada. I go in every Tuesday, make my best effort to stay awake during her rants, and participate as much as I can. I think the professors tell us that they will grade us seriously on purpose, so that we wouldn't slack off. If however, politik did not have a physician for the first physical exam module, then I can understand why he's so upset. We had a doctor (pediatrician) and she was amazing. She was very kind to us, understanding when we had exams and came in very tired.
3) On the topic of UMDNJ students being ruthless.
Yes, I do not get a perfect 100 on my evaluations despite the fact that I give everyone 100. My evaluation grade however, never fell below a 90. It is only 5% of your grade and frankly, I know already that I will probably wind up with honors in this course. If I would see that these evaluations were affecting my overall course grade, then I would probably go and speak to the professor. I have not heard of anyone getting below 90 on these evaluations and 90 is all you need to get Honors in this school. I don't think that students here are mean and ruthless. Everyone I met has been very nice so far. I don't expect do be close friends with everyone, but we're all friendly and if you ask someone something they will try to answer you the best that they can.
To sum it all up:
Politik: RELAX AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE B/C IT GOES BY VERY FAST.
SDNers: Any school you go to, you will find yourself overwhelmed and stressed out, angry at times. It is normal because medical school is hard. I also had a lot of other interviews when applying. I got into UMDNJ very early in the application cycle, my fiance proposed to me at that same time and I never went to the other interviews because he has an amazing career in the city. I don't regret coming here, but I also don't spend my life stressing out about every freaking detail.
 
I am also a first year at NJMS. I am very happy here. For the most part I think the professors and classes have been excellent and fair. I will try to address a few of politik's complaints about the school:

Core: I disagree that the lectures are a waste of time. The lectures on the physical exam were all given by specialists in the field of study. For example, a University Hospital pulmonologist gave us the lecture on how to examine the lungs. They often add interesting anecdotes from their own practices, and the techniques are always exhibited on a model patient and video-projected to a huge screen at the front of the lecture hall. After lecture you go to your small group and practice the exam and interview techniques on each other under the guidance of a professor. The ethics lectures, given by doctors, legal experts, and ethicists, have been even more fascinating. The preceptorship is one of the best experiences I have had so far in medical school. I have seen and learned so much with my preceptor. The vast majority of the preceptorships are near school (< 20-30 min. away) and they make every effort to help you get a close one if you don't have a car. Also you only have to attend 8 sessions. You are allowed to call out the day before an exam.

Anatomy: As politik said, the professors are amazing. Having few anatomy lectures is an advantage not a hindrance. We get to spend our time actually studying the anatomy in lab and going over clinical correlations with our TBL group. Our anatomy program is very well respected, and Dr. Vassan teaches his method to other medical schools around the country. As others have said, NJMS students consistently beat the national averages for anatomy.

MGM: Although this is my least favorite of our classes it is still excellent. Each lecture is given by an expert on that subject, someone who has actually done research in the field. While some lectures were slow or boring, for the most part they are interesting and very valuable. I will agree that the class is poorly run at times, but it is not a reason to avoid coming to NJMS. The professors are very fair, and they are always willing to help you.

Details on exams: It is good that the exams are nit-picky. This is the kind of knowledge you will need as a doctor. It is easy to diagnose hypertension or diabetes, but it takes a special kind of knowledge and attention to detail to catch those rare diseases and subtle symptoms. When you are on rotation and a doctor asks you what a normal range is for a lab test or some other nit-picky detail, trust me he won't want to hear you bitching about how unfair it is.

Students: I have been very impressed with the quality of our class. People work together to prepare for exams and get a thorough understanding. Peer evaluations are important for our team-based exercises because they are a check to make sure everyone is preparing and participating. They are worth very little, and you are doing something seriously wrong to get below a 90. I strongly disagree that this has caused serious problems in our class.

Sorry for the long post, but I do think that Politik's opinions are the exception to the rule. Most of my classmates seem very happy here. We can all find little things to whine about, but at NJMS you will get an excellent education with an amazing group of people.
 
Lol, news travel fast...I just got a call from one of my pre-med friends who interviewed at UMDNJ, saw politik's post and freaked out since UMDNJ is her top choice. Obviously, I told her my screenname; however, after her phone call I just wanted to reiterate to other SDNers who applied here that UMDNJ is a great school. As you can see from our posts we all have different study habits and likes/dislikes. For ex. politik hates core, njms and cpants like the lectures, and I simply chose not to attend them because I study more efficiently on my own; politik hates MGM, njms and cpants attend MGM, and, once again, I chose not to attend most lectures because I like to study these types of subjects at home at my own pace. We all love our preceptorships and I completely agree with above posts that anatomy professors are great. And even if you'll find yourself strongly disliking a class or two, just remember that medical school is 4 years long, there are tons of classes to be taken and some will be less fun than others. Please take the extreme posts with a grain of salt. Maybe politik had a bad day when he posted it.
The only thing that got me very very mad since I started school are the two people who parked next to my car in school parking lot and scratched both sides while opening their doors. I know this does not relate to the issues in the posts, but I was mad when I saw the second scratch and a freaking dent today and just wanted to vent. I am leasing my car and the dealership charges $200/hour just for labor so the fix-up will cost me a lot. 😡😡😡😡😡
 
Politik just sounds like someone who bitches a lot and probably wouldn't be happy at ANY med school... and most of his problems are hardly unique to his school... welcome to life

what do you want? monkey butlers?
 
Thanks to everyone who took the time out of their day to comment on this thread....After reading the first post I almost had a heart attack...lol
 
Kiska said:
Lol, news travel fast...I just got a call from one of my pre-med friends who interviewed at UMDNJ, saw politik's post and freaked out since UMDNJ is her top choice. Obviously, I told her my screenname; however, after her phone call I just wanted to reiterate to other SDNers who applied here that UMDNJ is a great school. As you can see from our posts we all have different study habits and likes/dislikes. For ex. politik hates core, njms and cpants like the lectures, and I simply chose not to attend them because I study more efficiently on my own; politik hates MGM, njms and cpants attend MGM, and, once again, I chose not to attend most lectures because I like to study these types of subjects at home at my own pace. We all love our preceptorships and I completely agree with above posts that anatomy professors are great. And even if you'll find yourself strongly disliking a class or two, just remember that medical school is 4 years long, there are tons of classes to be taken and some will be less fun than others. Please take the extreme posts with a grain of salt. Maybe politik had a bad day when he posted it.
The only thing that got me very very mad since I started school are the two people who parked next to my car in school parking lot and scratched both sides while opening their doors. I know this does not relate to the issues in the posts, but I was mad when I saw the second scratch and a freaking dent today and just wanted to vent. I am leasing my car and the dealership charges $200/hour just for labor so the fix-up will cost me a lot. 😡😡😡😡😡
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Buy a Saturn (not 2008 models or the Aura). Scratch and dent resistent body. Mine is 4 yrs old and looks like new.
 
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Are you kidding me?! When I opened this thread, I didn't anticipate stumbling upon 'War And Peace.'
 
maestro1625 said:
Politik just sounds like someone who bitches a lot and probably wouldn't be happy at ANY med school... and most of his problems are hardly unique to his school... welcome to life

what do you want? monkey butlers?
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or maybe you don't find it suspicious that the only positive posts are from those that just joined sdn to counter politik's argument?? Hmmm...who to believe, someone with a longstanding posting history or someone whose only post was to negate politik??

I swear..some pre-meds can be so naive...it's medical school not some holy shrine for saints only; administrations and classes can really really suck. So yeah, take it with a grain of salt, but don't completely disregard politik's post bc of those other posters that only joined for the purpose of glazing over the bull sh*% that the school probably deals you.
 
I think we have a pretty good feel of both sides of the story though. I still trust Politik more just because he's been with SDN for awhile.
 
0Complications said:
That's what I do. Why bother fixing it when it's just going to get dented again.
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My lease ends in February so when I'll have to return it they'll make me pay for fix up. I think I'll buy a car after this one since now I am driving to school every day.
 
So far I'm looking at a pass in MGM, pass/high pass in anatomy, and probably a high pass in core but we don't have a ton of grades yet. I'm clearly not one of the top students in the class, but I still like this place. Also, I was a member of SDN before this post.
 
njms2011 said:
I am also a medical student at njms and I completely disagree with most of the things politik said.
1) I usually go to mgm lecture, and while most of it is from the slides, they add many parts that help with understanding the material and what areas are important. It's also a good way to see the material before studying for the exams. And wow, all of the questions do come of the slides and lecture, which is great. Where do u want them to come from??
-and that "random" question about causes of death-my preceptor told me that those questions come up very often on boards and proceeded to quiz me on all the leading causes of death and how they are different for ages/ethnicities, so maybe you should trust that we are being taught and tested on important things.
2) I'm sure u were aware that there are no anatomy lectures before beginning school. It does take a lot of self study time, but I enjoy the tbl format for anatomy. In lab, the professors are not standing over your shoulder or dissecting for you, which is the way it should be. They are always around, and I have never had a problem getting them to show us a structure, clarify something or help in any way. Most people have no problem with the peer evaluations for anatomy, which only make up 5% of our grade. The majority of people who are unhappy have between 90 and 99. I have NEVER encountered one "ruthless, untrusting, competitive" individual in our class.
3) Core-So for anyone wondering, "an entire Tuesday in useless lecture"=1-1.5 hours
The small groups for the physical exam were worthwhile in my opinion, maybe that depends on your group. I have had physicians as my leaders for all of the small groups, I don't know if that is rare, but it was my experience. Preceptors were chosen through a lottery, I got my 2nd choice and its 10 minutes from my house. We only need to go 8 times a semester. And if you have such a problem with the distance, you can choose your own preceptor from any primary care doctor in the world. And yes, our core test did suck, but we got many points back. Most people who studied did very well, and the class average was an 80.8. and remember, they moved the test back to accommodate us and give us more study time.
- I do not study all the time, although I know people who study less and more often than I do. Everything we need to know for all the tests is clearly laid out for us, then it just comes down to studying. (I also agree that the calm reviews are veryyy helpful for studying) I haven't had a grade below an 85, and I maintain a very balanced life. I go out most weekends, I hang out with my friends and family, I see my boyfriend almost every day, and watch my fair share of tv.
Obviously I have been overwhelmed and frustrated many times so far this year. But overall, I am so content and loving njms. I'm learning more than I ever imagined and also enjoying myself. I think that some people just look for things to complain about.
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Clearly this guy is one of the admins from NJMS. 1 post,nice try buddy but most jerseyans know what kind of grab ass administration you people are running. This is why i won't be applying to NJ medical schools. 👎
I also got 3 friends who are 1st and 2nd year students and they preety much have issues with the samethings politik mentioned.

Politik keep speaking the truth and don't let them stop you. New applicants need to know what they are getting in to.
 
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ADeadLois said:
You could make these complaints about pretty much any med school in the country.
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1) MGM class is a waste of lecture time since they read off straight from the powerpoint. However, this is not that bad of a problem because we all are used to study pretty much on our own. The exams are ridiculously nitpicky. They will not test you for understanding of the material but rather will pick some random stuff from let's say slide 63 in lecture 25--some random word in that slide and you should be expected to know it. What's worse is that this class WILL NOT prepare you for the shelf exam. We were told by 2nd years to basically throw out lecture notes at the end and restudy for the shelf from BRS Biochemistry. However, we only have 2 days btw the MGM final and the shelf exam.

umm, yes... this is med school. you are here to learn minutiae. And again, only having 2 days to study for a final is not unusual.

2) Anatomy. Faculty is fantastic however, there are no lectures on it except a couple on Embryology which are taught by professors who barely speak English. You will have to study ALL of the anatomy on your own. And in lab, there is absolutely no guidance from the professors. Half of the time we don't even know if we are looking at the correct structure. So the major problem with this course is it's administration.

again... welcome to med school. you still haven't pointed out anything that makes your school special


3) My biggest and everyone's issue--Physician's Core. During the interview they will try to sell you on wonders of this course. BS. It is terrible. You spend an entire Tuesday in useless lectures where instead of spending their time teaching us how to perform a medical exam, they lecture on stuff we don't even need to know (about 50 slides of stuff you do not need to know) and then spend 5 minutes in a hurried way on showing us how to do an exam. However, they do that with their backs turned to us so pretty much noone can see anything from that 5 minute presentation. Then you have to spend most useless 2 hours in small groups doing bull. After medical exam section we now have ethics section till the rest of the semester where you waste hours discussing one freaking case. To top it all off, I guess they don't have enough money to hire physicians and some small groups are not taught by physicians but by let's say a biochem professor or a psychologist. Please someone explain to me why I am not being taught Physician's core by a physician???????? And if you think that you can miss small group meetings because they are the most boring wastes of time you will ever experience. No. They only allow 1 absence for the entire year. But this is not the end. For our exam we were not told anything about it . We just had to memorize random sh^% from Bates. During the exam half of the questions were so ambiguous that when we were standing outside checking our answers people got the same wrong answers for questions. You would think that maybe the faculty would evaluate the quality of these questions? Their answer was absolutely not. If not ambiguous, their questions were picky, especially in anatomy areas that we have not studied yet. For instance, we did upper limb by now in anatomy but not lower limb. Guess what, in Core exam all of their questions dealt with examination of lower limbs and none with upper lims. And the questions were as detailed as when check for blah and blah pulse you check it to the right and below such and such ankle muscle.

is there a clinical med class in the US that doesn't suck? and your posts just continually gets bitchier and bitchier... You talk about "stuff you don't need to know... yet you fail to even specifiy what that is. And small group sessions are going to be mandatory...duh! If no one shows up to them, then there's no point in having the small group of 1 person. Again... how does this make your school stand out?

Also you have to do a preceptorship with a private practice physician for the entire year. I like it a lot however, only a couple of people got it at Newark University Hospital. The rest have it all across the state and I, for instance, have to drive for an hour each way if there is no traffic. It takes two of my friends who don't have a car 2 hours each way. Believe me, when studying for the exams every hour matters and when many of us have to spend on average 2 hours commuting to and from a 3 hour preceptorship, the whole idea becomes very time consuming. They should have done it once every two weeks for 6 hours at the office. Something like that. Btw preceptorship is every week for the entire year.

again, not special. Try having to get to a location that's an hour away at a school where no one has a car AND having to schedule a visit with a nursing student and a PT student, all of whom are on different schedules

So, my point is: every school will have some issues. You might have bad administration in a class or two. But when there are major problems in all 3 classes then your life becomes hell. We do not have Pass/Fail but grades and on top of that they created an evaluation system for anatomy where students evaluate each other and that becomes part of your grade. Guess what: students decided to lower each other grades and did not give good evaluations to team members thereby creating a ruthless, untrusting and competitive atmoshphere. If before I was always more than willing to help my classmates, now I could care less and the class pretty much feels this way towards each other.
PS I apologies for multiple grammar and spelling mistakes--I was in a rush before anatomy lab

pure pass/fail grades are hardly the standard at schools, and peer evaluations are nothing special. Do you really think gunner types only exist in New Jersey? Do the work, and your class with give you full credit. If you got points off, you probably deserved it. sorry but you wouldn't be happy ANYWHERE.
 
maestro1625 said:




umm, yes... this is med school. you are here to learn minutiae. And again, only having 2 days to study for a final is not unusual.


again... welcome to med school. you still haven't pointed out anything that makes your school special


is there a clinical med class in the US that doesn't suck? and your posts just continually gets bitchier and bitchier... You talk about "stuff you don't need to know... yet you fail to even specifiy what that is. And small group sessions are going to be mandatory...duh! If no one shows up to them, then there's no point in having the small group of 1 person. Again... how does this make your school stand out?


again, not special. Try having to get to a location that's an hour away at a school where no one has a car AND having to schedule a visit with a nursing student and a PT student, all of whom are on different schedules

pure pass/fail grades are hardly the standard at schools, and peer evaluations are nothing special. Do you really think gunner types only exist in New Jersey? Do the work, and your class with give you full credit. If you got points off, you probably deserved it. sorry but you wouldn't be happy ANYWHERE.
Click to expand...


Amen. Honestly, if you make it through med school without having a lecturer who has no public speaking (or English) skills, a fluff, waste-of-time clinical class, a ridiculously short amount of time to study for classes, tests that are ludicrously unfair that ask irrelevant minutiae, then you have spent your last four years in a hallucinogenic state.
 
-yes, i only have one post to my name. that's because i was really bothered and couldn't believe some of the ridiculous complaints that were made. i felt bad that some people could be so influenced by one person's opinion, that doesn't reflect the feelings of anyone else at our school. everyone has some problems at any school, but i think that rant reflects more on politik than on the school.
-i am borderline honors/high pass in every class
 
In defense of NJMS... (from a 3rd year)... first time on sdn in a while, which is why i didn't see this thread till now.

1st year first semester was hard and absolutely horrible. Do not base your opinion of njms on the first semester.

Do not discount Core. You will be surprised when you get to 3rd year and everything you learned in core which seemed like common sense is foreign to a lot of residents and attendings out there. How to treat patients right and respectfully is not common knowledge. You'll be glad someday that you sat through those small groups wondering why you weren't doing something else. Honestly, things I was reminded of or learned in core were far more important than things i learned in anatomy or mgm. The preceptorships and student clinic as well do a lot in this realm of patient care.

if you have any questions for a 3rd year, i'll try to answer. (i'm quite busy but will answer when i can.)
 
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