Organic Chemistry

There are a lot of things that make transitioning to organic chemistry challenging. One of which, is that the way you name and draw molecules is new. It is challenging at first but gets much easier after you get those two things down. I would say that you should focus on learning resonance as soon as possible, and try to really understand it. You will be fine if you work hard, just like any other class.

Moving thread to the Pre-Allo forum.

In my opinion, organic chemistry doesn't really require that much info from general chemistry other than knowing your elements, general size/electronegativity trends, and maybe some basic acid/base and redox chemistry.

I think the only reason it's considered hard is because you can't just memorize equations and sample problems and plug-and-chug your way through it. It requires some outside-the-box thinking, which is apparently hard for a lot of pre-meds.

O-Chem requires you juggle some stuff in your mind, like viewing things in 3 dimensions. Not to mention a lot of reactions and mechanisms to memorize for O-Chem II. So quite different from g-chem.

You need to practice every day. Mechanisms need to be practiced and practiced and practiced.

Also keep really super organized from day one, ALWAYS read ahead, and make charts with info (comparing reaction mechanisms on the type of product, pH of conditions that cause them, etc, stuff like that).

Also I recommend this model set:
http://www.amazon.com/Prentice-Molecular-Model-Organic-Chemistry/dp/0205081363

So much better than the ones they make nowadays.

Oh! And def. get this workbook. It's easy enough that you can do it before you even begin o-chem but helps you get comfy with the terms and concepts:
http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Electrons-Students-Organic-Chemistry/dp/0030206936

If I knew this stuff a year and a half ago, I wouldn't be re-taking organic now

JackInTheBox said:

In my opinion, organic chemistry doesn't really require that much info from general chemistry other than knowing your elements, general size/electronegativity trends, and maybe some basic acid/base and redox chemistry.

I think the only reason it's considered hard is because you can't just memorize equations and sample problems and plug-and-chug your way through it. It requires some outside-the-box thinking, which is apparently hard for a lot of pre-meds.

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Organic chemistry is just knowing where the electrons go.
I struggled a bit in organic I, but I actually semi-enjoy organic II. Everything is coming together and making sense, instead of having random reactions out of nowhere

I felt the same way. I tried so hard for things to finally make sense. When they eventually did, it wasn't important anymore. I remember like 7 questions on the MCAT were Ochem. Don't stress too much. It is not necessary for med school.

Anyone who says o-chem isn't about memorizing, is full of bulls hit. Maybe it's just because I find theory and intuition easier than memorization, but to me it seemed like the memorization was endless. The only reason I'm doing better now is because I got a head start on the memorizing.

I think it's unfortunate that a lot of intro o-chem does end up being memorization. I think that has a lot to do with the way the material is initially presented, etc. It doesn't have to be that way.

Anyhow... I'm teaching intro o-chem again, so I'll give a few comments based on what some of my students seem to be struggling with right now. There are some fundamental things that you really should try to get down:

- charge is conserved. Always.
- learn your valencies! E.g., carbon should never have more than 4 bonds to it! (unless you're taking a grad level physical organic class.)
- try to understand simple kinetics, rate determining steps, etc. A strong understanding of fundamental thermodynamics will help.
- A solid understanding of acid-base chemistry will help significantly.
- A general knowledge of trends in the periodic table, e.g. electronegativity, polarizability, etc.

The rest will come directly from o-chem itself. The structures seem quite foreign at first, and mechanisms will take practice. This probably won't make sense yet, but just remember that your arrows should always show where electrons are going, and they should show it clearly.

I'd say its important to know a few things..

Resonance
Acid/Bases
Electronegativity and its affect (e- donating/withdrawing)

If you have those three things down, orgo is much more manageable..

I just don't remember learning resonance in gen chem. Am I the only one?

You can study from Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. It's a great book.

Have fun.

Go into with a positive attitude- right before I went in I learned that a lot of the class was about 'electron attack' and I thought that sounded cool.

IMO, organic chemistry is where you -really- learn how chemistry works.

Of course, my interests are heavily chemistry and I'm a TA for the class now, so my opinions might not be typical .

Study the -concepts-. Some mechanisms have to me memorized, and some reactants memorized, but if you understand the concepts of resonance, electrophiles and nucleophiles, electronegativity and electron-pushing, you can work through many problems.

The keys to organic chemistry are identifying which reactant is a nucleophile and which reactant is an electrophile. Once you can do that your ahead of most people (atleast it seems that way). Always write the mechanism for reactions, that way you will remember them and not just memorize products. Part of drawing mechanisms is learning resonance and electron pushing. Learn trends and their causes, don't memorize specific numbers.

All of those things you will learn in o-chem. For now, just worry about your g-chem and don't look ahead too far.

I took organic I last term, and I'm currently in organic II. I honestly thought that organic I was easier than my second gen chem class, but that may be because our second gen chem class focused heavily on quantitative analysis of reaction kinetics.

I did very well in organic term I (and have been doing well in organic I as well). It really is much more straightforward than most people will tell you. Although I don't pretend to know what works for everybody, the following tips have been very helpful for me so far:

Don't memorize the specific reactions, but do know why/how they work.
If you can make a ring (esp. an aromatic ring) try to do it.
Practice problems are your friend.
A model kit is worth its weight in gold when stereochemistry rears its ugly head. (Some prof's let you bring your kit to tests...made the difference on a 10 pt question last term)
Don't be intimidated when you see something you haven't seen before- you probably know how to solve the problem
Charge is conserved
Carbon (almost always) takes four bonds

Hope some of that helps you.

Gsquared lists some very good points to remember.

binko said:

Oh! And def. get this workbook. It's easy enough that you can do it before you even begin o-chem but helps you get comfy with the terms and concepts:
http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Electrons-Students-Organic-Chemistry/dp/0030206936

If I knew this stuff a year and a half ago, I wouldn't be re-taking organic now

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I did the Pushing Electrons workbook before taking o-chem. It wasn't difficult, but was still very helpful in becoming familiar with organic molecules and how valence electrons are understood in o-chem.

Also, a really good understanding of electronegativity and nucleo/electrophilicity will cut back on the amount of actual memorization you will need to do. Once I understood this, I did not have to memorize about 80% the mechanisms covered in the class. O-chem really builds on itself so if you learn the basics really well, the rest of the class will likely make a lot sense.

I should add that doing a lot of practice problems is also necessary.

The biggest advice I've given people whom I've tutored in Organic is to study the first 3-4 chapters of the book inside and out and do the problems until you get them. I mean, do this before the semester. This way, you'll be able to get the mode of the ground work that you need to bring with you and not spend as much time as everyone else to figure out those structures and how they work. Once you get up to those structures and master them and up to the fourth or so chapter, you have at least exam 1 aced, and the time in class spent is correcting anything you might have done wrong, along with reinforcing what you learned already. Having to start out with an A on the first orgo exam really helps and knowing those structures and being able to visualize allows one to sometimes predict later how a reaction will take place if you're stumped on the process.

Some might recommend something else, but I recommend Brown and Foote's Organic chem with the solutions manual. Old timers used Morrison and Boyd, and to be honest, it's not the best example to learn from. More of a reference in some manner.

Also, a really good understanding of electronegativity and nucleo/electrophilicity will cut back on the amount of actual memorization you will need to do. Once I understood this, I did not have to memorize about 80% the mechanisms covered in the class. O-chem really builds on itself so if you learn the basics really well, the rest of the class will likely make a lot sense.

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I absolutely agree with this.

There have been some good tips here, but I'd be a bit careful about trying to learn organic chemistry before you're actually in the class. If you pick up a bad habit, it could be hard to break if you've been doing it for a while by the time someone notices it.

O-Chem is completely do-able. Just stop freaking out about it, work hard, and don't break the standard rules of chemistry and you'll catch on quickly. There are a lot of simple things that people forget that are great tests: if your reaction requires carbon (or nitrogen or oxygen) to have more than 4 bonds, it's almost certainly wrong. If it requires that you form a carbene, it's likely wrong. If you have a carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, or hydrogen with more than one charge on it, it's probably wrong. If you have hydride has a leaving group, it's probably wrong.

I've never tried this before with students, but I think it might be pretty useful: whenever you learn a new concept, ask a TA what would be a really BAD thing to do at that point. They'll be able to point out the most common mistakes, and why you shouldn't make them.

If you pick up a bad habit, it could be hard to break if you've been doing it for a while by the time someone notices it.

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That's why you do it right, you get the books I mentioned with the solutions manual, and you do everything over and over until you get it right. One might not have this much time when the semester is running.

Every student that followed this advice of mine got an A. Additionally, your post seems to regard the case of the teacher actually doing the significant amount of teaching required in organic, which is not possible. The course must be self-taught, as others are, to an extremely large degree because of the sheer volume of information. The instructors can only touch on points and answer pre-existing questions for the students who actually had good skills and previewed the material before the class.

Simply put, it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that studying ahead and learning and doing the problems and knowing them inside and out is the wrong way. That more sounds like those ultra-competitive people who do everything they can to make others screw up and keep themselves "elite".

Do you think taking it during the summer where everything is so condensed makes the course harder that taking it during the regular semester?

I don't really know. The only comment I've heard from people who have taken it during the summer is that the professors make it easier. These people either wanted to take it a second time after a C- or a W from the regular semester. They also wanted to take it to get it out of the way, but generally didn't do as well as they could have during a semester, IMO. They certainly didn't learn as thoroughly and I would personally have been horrified to take OCII in such a short time.

It's up to you and not impossible. If the goal is getting a A, then I would probably take it during the semester. IMO as a student and as a tutor in OC, I found that there are topics that demand lots of time, where one might have to sit and look at a few pages, or even one forever to finally make it click. When you're on limited time to begin with, then it really hurts, especially when the exams are so close together. That's the main factor, considering during a normal semester one is losing time also with other classes. That's why I tell everyone to go into the class with chapters 1-4 mastered. Not just familiar, but absolutely mastered.

Going by Brown and Foote, these topics are:

1. Covalent bonding and ShaPES Of Molecules
2. Alkanes and Cycloalkanes
3. Chirality
4. Acids and Bases

They are all pretty important and generally your first exam. If you have it all mastered, especially chapter 4, you have a head up on everything that comes after and the behavior of molecules in reactions. I found that even in Biochem knowing this kind of stuff helps to predict an outcome during an exam.

I recommend this particular book and the solutions manual because it's definitely clear, good illustrations, and the solutions manual is very good. It's almost as thick as the text.

Even if it's not your text, see if you can pick up the 3rd edition or newer with the manual for cheap and work on it.

I also suggest spending a lot of time on the visualization of the molecules flat on a page and mastering Chirality. They love those questions on the first exam, and then the topic pops up repeatedly later in nearly every section in some form.

Also get a good quality molecule kit. I have one that I brought to Germany with me, but it's in storage, so I don't know the brand right now. Some schools allow use during exams, but don't even try it. If you need a structure on the exam, you're doing it wrong because you need to visualize it all, plus looking at the models takes time, and some people build them during the exam. You need to be able to understand how the structures are drawn and make a 3-D interpretation in your mind that moves, turns, etc. and maintains those spatial relationships as you move it.

If you do nearly every problem in that book, and master it, then I don't see why one can not get an A. Organic is not tough, it's just a lot of info and you really have to condition yourself to do it. I think it gets a bad rap, really. To be honest, I make no jokes about it, I actually enjoyed the course and it was my favorite, or one of my favorites.

cgk said:

Do you think taking it during the summer where everything is so condensed makes the course harder that taking it during the regular semester?

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Depends on the program. Some cover the material a little more cursorily, others don't. It really depends on the prof, like all classes.

Organic is fun. Don't take it during the summer. You won't get the full experience.

sully677 said:

Organic is fun. Don't take it during the summer. You won't get the full experience.

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OP: if, when you take organic, you find yourself violently disagreeing with this sentiment, that is normal.

Just study ahead over the summer. That way you get a feel for the subject. It is much different than inorganic chem. But, make sure you know: resonance, electronegative, the size of the molecule, the way molecules interact with each other. There is also a lot of memorization such as mechanisms. You also might want to get a head start on drawing the molecules. If you can't draw them effectively from the start, then you may have a hard time finishing your first couple of tests on time, well at least I did. haha...

austinap said:

If it requires that you form a carbene, it's likely wrong.

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Hey now, my PI works with and came up with the first air stable carbenes, don't say that

binko said:

Anyone who says o-chem isn't about memorizing, is full of bulls hit. Maybe it's just because I find theory and intuition easier than memorization, but to me it seemed like the memorization was endless. The only reason I'm doing better now is because I got a head start on the memorizing.

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that's just not true. The problem is, people don't realize that if you want to learn something properly, you have to put in effort on the front end. After that, you can just cruise because you have a good understanding of the concepts and you just build on them. That's what slight365 is talking about (actually, I was really surprised to see that written because I also always tell people to just learn the first 4 chapters perfectly, and then it's easy after that). Memorizing requires you to put in effort the entire way through, and it's exhausting and not very effective. There really is very little memorization in organic chemistry, it's one of the most conceptually driven scientific fields (although these days, chemists are spoiled by SciFinder).

You can study from Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. It's a great book.

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I have to disagree. Organic Chemistry 1 for dummies helped me out quite a bit up to H NMR and mass spec. I took it in the summer and made A's in all except Organic 1 lab (made a B). I recommend taking it in the summer. But everyone is different.

The only thing that was remotely related to Gen Chem was the review (lewis structures, periodic table trends ,etc.).

MECHANISMS MECHANISMS MECHANISMS!!!!!

you need to really understand HOW the reactions work too. some people just think it's important to learn, for a general example, THIS + THAT = PRODUCT. but that won't help you on the MCAT

Perhaps I am just crazy... but Orgo is one of my favorite classes from college. You get to learn how to synthesize drugs, how to blow stuff up, and how to make chemical weapons. How can a class get any cooler than that??

In terms of study tips... I'm not sure. I'm sitting on an A right now, 5 days before my final, in O.Chem II (got an A first semester too). I guess if I had any advice it would be: DO NOT GET BEHIND. EVER. Expect your organic chemistry studying and homework to take as much time as the work in two of your classes combined (possibly even all of them together depending on your schedule). Keep up with it, love it, and it will love you back.

Studying Orgo is like the Conservation of Energy: you put effort in, you get results out. If you study hard and know your stuff, you WILL get an A in the class, guaranteed. The bottom line is: People that don't excel in Orgo simply have not been spending enough time with the material.

Don't get overwhelmed either.. take it one step at a time. Emphasize doing problems over studying notes/reviewing the book -- problems will help consolidate knowledge in your head as well as facilitate the memorization process (but don't neglect the latter either). Before you know it you'll be a third of the way through, flipping through the earlier sections of the book, and wondering why you ever thought Orgo was hard.

Other than that, there's no way you can prepare for Orgo. Some concepts in Gen. Chem are used in Orgo, but not in much depth. And they will be reviewed in the class. Just show up fresh and ready to work hard, and you'll be golden.

I'm with you, evergrey; I loved orgo. That being said, I can see why some people hate it. I feel like orgo is one of those classes where the particular professor makes a big difference in terms of your learning, so as dumb as this will sound, I recommend that you take it with a professor who has a reputation for teaching well.

This has all been said already, but I will reiterate because it's so important:
- Practice your mechanisms and understand why electrons go where they do. If you have a really good understanding of this, you will NOT end up memorizing reactions. Do lots and lots of practice problems.
- I didn't find orgo to be conceptually difficult, but it was very time-consuming. I would budget your study time as if orgo was two classes rather than one. No need to panic over it, but if you study as much for organic as you do for most other classes, you'll fall behind and do poorly.
- The only things you really need to memorize are NMR/IR values for different functional groups. You can, of course, figure out trends, but it is worthwhile to just memorize those numbers. Do TONS of spectroscopy questions and don't stop until you're really getting it.
- Relax and don't listen to people who talk about orgo as if it's doomsday. It isn't everyone's idea of a day at the beach, but most people do manage to get through it somehow. Just do the best you can.

Really, there's not much you need from general chemistry you need to do well in organic chemistry. just taking general chemistry would suffice, no need to bog yourself down with what will be important in organic chemistry.

The material may seem intimidating. You many need to read the same page at least 10 times to understand the concept, but you'll laugh that you were having trouble with something when you look back on it.

dont pay attention to what your classmates are doing or a low class average. Find something that works for you and you'll get an A.

Agree with some of the above sentiment. Orgo gets a bad rap, but it's not as bad as it is made out to be. I think really the biggest misconception is that it is more closely tied to general chemistry than, say, your undergrad biology class. This is to say that it should be considered mostly separate.

For me, I didn't care for general or physical chemistry at all, but Orgo and I were sympatico. I think it's been mentioned above, but if you're feeling anxious about it, go out and get the book this summer. Read the first few chapters. You will not get more than about half of the information, but this is fine. You'll lay a nice foundation, and you'll understand where the first course is headed from day one. Once class starts, just don't fall behind.

Some people get Orgo, but just about everyone can get it with enough work. Be willing to think outside the box... it's a little more visual and 'arty' than general chem.

binko said:

You need to practice every day. Mechanisms need to be practiced and practiced and practiced.

Also keep really super organized from day one, ALWAYS read ahead, and make charts with info (comparing reaction mechanisms on the type of product, pH of conditions that cause them, etc, stuff like that).

Also I recommend this model set:
http://www.amazon.com/Prentice-Molecular-Model-Organic-Chemistry/dp/0205081363

So much better than the ones they make nowadays.

Oh! And def. get this workbook. It's easy enough that you can do it before you even begin o-chem but helps you get comfy with the terms and concepts:
http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Electrons-Students-Organic-Chemistry/dp/0030206936

If I knew this stuff a year and a half ago, I wouldn't be re-taking organic now

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thanks, im kind of afraid of taking organic chem due to how hard i heard it was, maybe i would have a head start.

vman51 said:

I'd say its important to know a few things..

Resonance
Acid/Bases
Electronegativity and its affect (e- donating/withdrawing)

If you have those three things down, orgo is much more manageable..

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Totally agree with this advice. Organic is not as terrible as everyone makes it out to be. I had a difficult time with it at first. It took me a while to figure out how to study for it, whereas with other classes I've taken, I've figured out how to study right away. But once I figured it out, ochem makes a lot of sense. I can actually say that I like ochem. I think my biggest problem was that I would psych myself out about the exams and when I get really nervous, my mind goes blank. Now I just refuse to let myself get psyched out and that alone has helped me do really well on the exams.

Another piece of advice- write the reactions and mechanisms a lot! It's easy to look at a mechanism and say, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." But to actually be able to do the mechanism without looking at your notes is a totally different story.

focus on understanding, not on memorization. of course, you will have to memorize some things (solvents, IR stretches, chemical shifts for NMR) but a solid understanding of resonance, charge, induction, electronegativity and acid/base chemistry will serve you very well. if you have a good understanding of the basics, you will be able to figure out a mechanism you've never seen before.

o-chem is very logical and involves a lot of issue-spotting. if you have a logical mind and can look at a molecule/reaction and spot the issues, you'll be set

spend some time on o-chem EVERY day. do not get behind or else o-chem will turn on you and hurt you bad. do all the assigned homework problems and then some, draw out reaction mechanisms but don't just copy them, stop after each step and ask yourself *why* something is happening the way it is.

keep a running list of questions that you have and take it to office hours and go over your questions with your professor

I love o-chem! I hope you will too!

loveoforganic said:

Hey now, my PI works with and came up with the first air stable carbenes, don't say that

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Fair enough, and non-classical carbocations exist as well (with essentially 5 bonds to carbon). It doesn't mean that that's something you should write on your first semester organic final!

slight365 said:

That's why you do it right, you get the books I mentioned with the solutions manual, and you do everything over and over until you get it right. One might not have this much time when the semester is running.

Every student that followed this advice of mine got an A. Additionally, your post seems to regard the case of the teacher actually doing the significant amount of teaching required in organic, which is not possible. The course must be self-taught, as others are, to an extremely large degree because of the sheer volume of information. The instructors can only touch on points and answer pre-existing questions for the students who actually had good skills and previewed the material before the class.

Simply put, it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that studying ahead and learning and doing the problems and knowing them inside and out is the wrong way. That more sounds like those ultra-competitive people who do everything they can to make others screw up and keep themselves "elite".

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This isn't one of those ultra-competitive things, I'm not competing with my students in any way. I'm a grad student that's taught organic chemistry for two years at one of the top science schools in the country and have won awards for teaching. I want my students to do well.

I'm also not saying that people shouldn't start learning ahead of time, I'm saying "Be careful about what you try to learn." From my experience, people who put in extra time learning trends in the periodic table, fundamental differences between basic organic atoms, and other gen-chem type material are extremely successful. Other things that would be reasonable things to look at beforehand would be nomenclature and notational things.

Look, putting more time into studying isn't always the best way to do it. Spend time making sure that your understanding of the fundamentals is solid, and organic chem will be cake. Put off learning the actual organic chemistry material until you have someone that can give you some guidance. Bad habits can take ages to break, and I've had several smart students do poorly in my class because they picked up a bad habit before the course even started and couldn't break it.

GoSpursGo said:

This. I was an organic superstar in O Chem I, consistently getting one of the top two or three scores in the class on each exam and easily got an A in the class. But then for the next semester, O Chem II, I decided to try and pre-learn a bunch of stuff over the summer. I promptly bombed the first exam (bottom quartile of the class) in O Chem II because I thought I knew a bunch of stuff that I didn't actually know at all. At that point I just threw out all of the notes I'd taken over the summer and started over taking fresh notes from class and pulled myself back up to the top of the class on the last few exams.

So again, there's a reason the person with the PhD is teaching the material and not you; let them be the one to teach you, and then go back over the material on your own later.

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Exactly.

To be honest, at that point in an undergraduate education few people understand enough of the material to realize when or why they're doing something wrong.

binko said:

Anyone who says o-chem isn't about memorizing, is full of bulls hit. Maybe it's just because I find theory and intuition easier than memorization, but to me it seemed like the memorization was endless. The only reason I'm doing better now is because I got a head start on the memorizing.

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I definitely agree with others that organic chemistry didn't require too much memorization. It really was conceptual. A strong foundation in the basics was good enough to do well in the class. Doing practice problems is the best way to keep up with the class, in my opinion.

Biochem, on the other hand...mostly brute memorization heh. But I loved it!

Kaushik said:

I definitely agree with others that organic chemistry didn't require too much memorization. It really was conceptual. A strong foundation in the basics was good enough to do well in the class. Doing practice problems is the best way to keep up with the class, in my opinion.

Biochem, on the other hand...mostly brute memorization heh. But I loved it!

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Agreed. Good advice.

best advice is to excel in what you're doing now and to worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes.

Your desire to do well will serve you but it is not necessary to direct it in this direction, it may even impede your success.

Not to say to be imprudent, but instead to say to stay focused on the task at hand.

Kaushik said:

I definitely agree with others that organic chemistry didn't require too much memorization. It really was conceptual. A strong foundation in the basics was good enough to do well in the class. Doing practice problems is the best way to keep up with the class, in my opinion.

Biochem, on the other hand...mostly brute memorization heh. But I loved it!

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Agreed.

Though I'd like to think that it would be possible to teach biochem from a logical perspective rather than the memorization that it usually seems to be. Unfortunately, most of the "not memorization" but interesting stuff with biochem doesn't seem to come until grad school. Even then, a lot of people do it wrong.

austinap said:

Agreed.

Though I'd like to think that it would be possible to teach biochem from a logical perspective rather than the memorization that it usually seems to be. Unfortunately, most of the "not memorization" but interesting stuff with biochem doesn't seem to come until grad school. Even then, a lot of people do it wrong.

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There is definitely a way to teach biochem from a logical perspective. Even the stuff we have to memorize (the pathways, etc.) work in a logical way. Really, the stuff we had to memorize in biochem were enyzme names, structure, etc., not the process itself. I absolutely loved biochem!

PS. Does anyone else not understand why organic chemistry is a pre-requisite for biochem? Electron pushing and some basic concepts of nucleophilicity/electrophilicity were all that I felt like I needed and I did really well in biochem; and these things don't require an entire semester of organic in order to understand.

PPS. Sorry for derailing the thread towards biochem!

Kaushik said:

There is definitely a way to teach biochem from a logical perspective. Even the stuff we have to memorize (the pathways, etc.) work in a logical way. Really, the stuff we had to memorize in biochem were enyzme names, structure, etc., not the process itself. I absolutely loved biochem!

PS. Does anyone else not understand why organic chemistry is a pre-requisite for biochem? Electron pushing and some basic concepts of nucleophilicity/electrophilicity were all that I felt like I needed and I did really well in biochem; and these things don't require an entire semester of organic in order to understand.

PPS. Sorry for derailing the thread towards biochem!

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Eh, it's an old thread anyhow.

But back to biochem...

I love biochem as well, and thought it was an awesome way to finish undergrad. However, while some of the material was logical the way I was first taught, the majority of it really wasn't. There really was a lot of memorization.

As far as why o-chem is a PR, I think there are a couple main reasons. O-chem 2, I can't see as much, but at least in org 1 you learn nomenclature, and especially how to represent extremely complex molecules in relatively straightforward ways. Without ochem, you really wouldn't even be able to draw biochemical molecules and understand what your drawing signified.

However, some of the coolest stuff comes even later. If you follow it long enough, eventually you can get to a point where you can build up to biochemistry just from organic chem. One example that I always though was pretty cool (maybe just because I didn't catch on to it in undergrad?) is how you can logically predict what a ramachandran plot for proteins would look like based only on strain energies.

Essentially every advanced biochemical topic relies heavily on at least some aspect of organic chem. Enzymology, pharmacology (at least, 'rational' phamacology), all make much more sense if you have a strong organic chem background.

Here's something I've always wanted to know, at least qualitatively: how much can the average doctor actually explain about the structure / activity relationships of drugs that they prescribe daily?