Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

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One other thing about PA vs NP no one seems to mention is the lack of recognition/reciprocity of PA in other countries. I think the U.S. is the only country that recognizes the PA profession. You couldn't move to Canada or Australia, as an example, and work as a PA. With NP, you can go anywhere.

Also, an MA in psychology is not a bad way to go, if you don't mind a lower salary, and the time it takes to build and manage a practice. Where I live in California, an MFT I know says he bills $100/hr. He also has a multi-year contract with the city and takes on many social work type cases. The contract is for around 35k/year, but that's on top of what he makes in his private practice. He loves his job and also teaches on the adjunct faculty at the local community college. He seems to have a great life. He says that it's an honor for people to invite them into their lives and share their stories--although, quite a bit of these stories are somewhat sad and horrific. Anyways, it has taken him almost 20 years to build all of this. Personally, I envy him.
 
You have to do specialty training and practicum hours/supervision whatever after graduation. Depending on the state requirements, that can be tedious. Also, adjunct doesn't really pay that well and you are only teaching classes that full time faculty don't/can't teach. Bottom of the totem pole. You are essentially a contract worker semester to semester. it was much easier for him 20 years ago. Trust me.
 
NP's are converting to doctorate level by 2015.
Refugees from the nursing glut are piling into NP programs.
The doctorate is heavy on statistics and required research.
You can see the details in the faculty wanted posts.
They want to see MSN's with experience in advanced statistics.
I applied as a PharmD and was sent several thank you letters.

Nurses are very parochial. Their faculties are exclusively nurses.
This is a good job program for MSN's.

PA schools prefer to hire MD's, with a scattering of PA's and PharmD's.

The nursing route is not that hard. The BSN is now only 1-1.5 years and the MSN is 1 year of online work.

There is a glut of RN's now due to all the community colleges pumping out 300 ADN's a year.

Most hospital administrations in this area and California have explicit preferences for hiring NP's over PA's if all else is equal.

Long story. It is an option if you're really set on hospital work and can't find a residency pathway.
 
I've been exploring college teaching for a while.
California community college teachers do very well. They are unionized and even the adjuncts make over $25 an hour. Too bad they aren't hiring anymore.
Adjuncts in most states make about $15-18 per hour.
It's less than elementary teachers and barely a living wage.
Nursing school professors earn more and have many full-time tenured positions to choose from.
 
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ellwoodis said:
I've been exploring college teaching for a while.
California community college teachers do very well. They are unionized and even the adjuncts make over $25 an hour. Too bad they aren't hiring anymore.
Adjuncts in most states make about $15-18 per hour.
It's less than elementary teachers and barely a living wage.
Nursing school professors earn more and have many full-time tenured positions to choose from.
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I see dollar signs :meanie:
 
kellia said:
i'm not too worried about mail order prescriptions. i mean, the scripts don't fill themselves... pharmacists will still be needed once the shortage is reduced, although HOW they (we!!) are needed may change. i think there will be a greater need for clinical involvement by pharmacists in the future, which i am really looking forward to.
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Another reason to support Rear Admiral Scott F. Giberson, RPh, PhC, MPH, US Assistant Surgeon General and his paper http://www.pharmacist.com/Content/ContentFolders3/NewsReleases/2012/JanMar/USPHS_Report_USSG.pdf

A must read!
 
All Pharm.D. haters need to find something more useful to do.
 
Hey guys, I was just wondering how many fingers do I need to work efficiently as a pharmacist? Looking at the job market, I doubt that I will get a job right after graduation. That means I will get a few of my fingers cut off my loan sharks. Assuming that I will lose one finger each month, how long do I have until I absolutely need to get hired?
 
a student said:
Hey guys, I was just wondering how many fingers do I need to work efficiently as a pharmacist? Looking at the job market, I doubt that I will get a job right after graduation. That means I will get a few of my fingers cut off my loan sharks. Assuming that I will lose one finger each month, how long do I have until I absolutely need to get hired?
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🙄
 
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Rxbuddy said:
All Pharm.D. haters need to find something more useful to do.
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they would work, but fact is there are not any jobs out there for pharmacists anymore😱
 
Rxbuddy said:
All Pharm.D. haters need to find something more useful to do.
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Is it weird that I'm starting to appreciate them? I mean the more pharmacists diverted the profession = more opportunities for me in the future? Hah. And it hopefully means the easily swayed won't make it into the business, and I don't think we need more easily swayed people in the profession.
 
sisson329 said:
Is it weird that I'm starting to appreciate them? I mean the more pharmacists diverted the profession = more opportunities for me in the future? Hah. And it hopefully means the easily swayed won't make it into the business, and I don't think we need more easily swayed people in the profession.
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On the other hand, envision this scenario that I will try and paint for you. Pharmacy schools have to fill their seats up regardless of the quality of the people who apply (assuming that smarter people would have more options to pursue different careers). Now you have artificially created a profession that cannot be saved because the professional comprising the profession are too dumb to do anything about it :meanie:
 
hereticmnk said:
On the other hand, envision this scenario that I will try and paint for you. Pharmacy schools have to fill their seats up regardless of the quality of the people who apply (assuming that smarter people would have more options to pursue different careers). Now you have artificially created a profession that cannot be saved because the professional comprising the profession are too dumb to do anything about it :meanie:
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Wouldn't this eventually mean that they would have to start recruiting less applicable candidates and therefore failing more students which would eventually drop their seat #? This is of course assuming that they're not going to adjust their curriculum in secret, allowing more students to pass, and dodging the accredation auditing? lol I keep wanting to remain naive about the fact that I wouldn't think twice about whether or not schools have been doing this = \ Please someone tell me they don't and make me feel better.
 
sisson329 said:
Wouldn't this eventually mean that they would have to start recruiting less applicable candidates and therefore failing more students which would eventually drop their seat #? This is of course assuming that they're not going to adjust their curriculum in secret, allowing more students to pass, and dodging the accredation auditing? lol I keep wanting to remain naive about the fact that I wouldn't think twice about whether or not schools have been doing this = \ Please someone tell me they don't and make me feel better.
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They don't
 
sisson329 said:
Wouldn't this eventually mean that they would have to start recruiting less applicable candidates and therefore failing more students which would eventually drop their seat #? This is of course assuming that they're not going to adjust their curriculum in secret, allowing more students to pass, and dodging the accredation auditing? lol I keep wanting to remain naive about the fact that I wouldn't think twice about whether or not schools have been doing this = \ Please someone tell me they don't and make me feel better.
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It doesn't matter if they do....their graduates still have to pass the NABPLEX and that is not going to be dumbed down. Graduation rate of a school is totally different from its NABPLEX pass rate, and smart future students will be looking at the NABPLEX pass rate, not the graduation rate.
 
Haha, thanks Heretic. And okay biding, that also makes me feel better. I mean if they're turning schools into factories then at least I can bank on the final test remaining unforgiving.
 
Just wondering: how effective would the NAPLEX be when it comes to weeding out those unqualified to be a pharmacist? From what I heard, the NAPLEX is not too difficult. I am hoping that it can be the rate-limiting step to entry into the profession with all of the new schools opening up.
 
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stoichiometrist said:
Just wondering: how effective would the NAPLEX be when it comes to weeding out those unqualified to be a pharmacist? From what I heard, the NAPLEX is not too difficult. I am hoping that it can be the rate-limiting step to entry into the profession with all of the new schools opening up.
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I don't think it will be effective enough... Although I do know a guy that failed the NAPLEX at least three times and guess what??? He was...wait for it.... from a new pharm school! In my class at my pharm school we had 100% pass on the first try and the first try pass rate had been 95+ for years with many being 100%, which is just what one would expect from a major state school with a well regarded academic medical center. Not saying "everyone" that goes to the lower tiered schools isn't bright, I'm just saying that the probability of them having a higher percentage of less qualified students is more likely than at the major state schools/well established programs.
 
stoichiometrist said:
Just wondering: how effective would the NAPLEX be when it comes to weeding out those unqualified to be a pharmacist? From what I heard, the NAPLEX is not too difficult. I am hoping that it can be the rate-limiting step to entry into the profession with all of the new schools opening up.
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NAPLEX is not difficult at all. Last time I looked most schools had 95%+ pass rates. My school specifically has 99%.

Honestly I felt that you have to try to fail it to actually fail it.
 
B Wong said:
NAPLEX is not difficult at all. Last time I looked most schools had 95%+ pass rates. My school specifically has 99%.

Honestly I felt that you have to try to fail it to actually fail it.
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This. Just what I was attempting to say before I embarked on a long winded rant. Great concise answer.
 
Rxbuddy said:
All Pharm.D. haters need to find something more useful to do.
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All PharmD students need to un-bury their heads from the sand. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.

The profession I loved has been ruined by corporate greed right across the board, hell even the pharmacy schools are hungry for your money, they are sure as hell not interested in the students, why else are they increasing class sizes and opening new schools? Out of pure greed, that's all.
 
Hello2000 said:
All PharmD students need to un-bury their heads from the sand. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.

The profession I loved has been ruined by corporate greed right across the board, hell even the pharmacy schools are hungry for your money, they are sure as hell not interested in the students, why else are they increasing class sizes and opening new schools? Out of pure greed, that's all.
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Everyone blames an entity or a corporation for our problems. It is multi-faceted with no entity actively working to jeopardize the profession. It is mostly a combination of multiple entities acting passively in their self interest without the interest of the profession. Although I must concede that he end result is the same making this a moot point :laugh:
 
Hello2000 said:
All PharmD students need to un-bury their heads from the sand. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.

The profession I loved has been ruined by corporate greed right across the board, hell even the pharmacy schools are hungry for your money, they are sure as hell not interested in the students, why else are they increasing class sizes and opening new schools? Out of pure greed, that's all.
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stop taking pharmacy students.
 
Hello2000 said:
All PharmD students need to un-bury their heads from the sand. Don't shoot the messenger as they say.

The profession I loved has been ruined by corporate greed right across the board, hell even the pharmacy schools are hungry for your money, they are sure as hell not interested in the students, why else are they increasing class sizes and opening new schools? Out of pure greed, that's all.
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don't forget raising tuition yearly as well.
 
So what should I be expecting the market to look like when I graduate in 2015? Do you guys expect there to be any turnaround with the aging baby bloomers?
 
Weakerthan said:
So what should I be expecting the market to look like when I graduate in 2015? Do you guys expect there to be any turnaround with the aging baby bloomers?
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That and also you figure Obamacare would be in full force creating a spike in the number of prescriptions for the people added into the healthcare system.
 
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B Wong said:
NAPLEX is not difficult at all. Last time I looked most schools had 95%+ pass rates. My school specifically has 99%.

Honestly I felt that you have to try to fail it to actually fail it.
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yea

if you pass your classes, you'll pass the test
 
I found this on a pharmacy school website. I'm pretty sure all pharmacy schools have this same statement somewhere on their websites to recruit unaware students....

"A study released in December 2008 by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) estimates that the nationwide pharmacist shortage that exists today will further expand in the coming years. By 2016, HHS projects a shortfall of 25,100 pharmacists across the U.S., meaning approximately 10% of available jobs at that time will be unfilled"

Do you think in 2016 there will be a shortage of 25,100 pharmacists now?
 
D5WwithNSS said:
Do you think in 2016 there will be a surplus of 25,100 pharmacists now?
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ftfy and yes there would be.. only if we are lucky and they close down half of the schools that are currently operating.
 
Scratch that, I dont even understand the legend.
 
The only people on here saying that the job market isn't saturated and fine are the pre-pharm kids who are applying to school or just starting school.

Meanwhile, you have actual pharmacists, P-3's and P-4's painting a completely different picture of the field (i.e. difficulty finding employment, rough job market, decrease of salary).

Just find it funny, that's all.
 
sproles134 said:
The only people on here saying that the job market isn't saturated and fine are the pre-pharm kids who are applying to school or just starting school.

Meanwhile, you have actual pharmacists, P-3's and P-4's painting a completely different picture of the field (i.e. difficulty finding employment, rough job market, decrease of salary).

Just find it funny, that's all.
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Well, I somehow managed to find employment after graduation, in spite of it apparently being neigh impossible. 😳
 
owlegrad said:
Well, I somehow managed to find employment after graduation, in spite of it apparently being neigh impossible. 😳
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where do you work and when did you graduate? What was your debt after graduation? What was your starting salary, yearly?
 
sproles134 said:
where do you work and when did you graduate? What was your debt after graduation? What was your starting salary, yearly?
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Hahahah! I wish!

I am a fourth year student (my school calls us 4PDs) graduating May 2013, and supposedly I will be getting my offer letter in Sept for CVS. My debt is somewhere between "crushing" and "unfathomable".

Can't say starting salary yet.
 
Bad data. I refuse to believe that California is relatively balanced with slightly more demand than surplus. If it's true, then things aren't so bad at all after all.
 
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owlegrad said:
Hahahah! I wish!

I am a fourth year student (my school calls us 4PDs) graduating May 2013, and supposedly I will be getting my offer letter in Sept for CVS. My debt is somewhere between "crushing" and "unfathomable".

Can't say starting salary yet.
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If you were going to give an incoming pharmacy student one word of advice, what would it be?
 
Niosh said:
Bankruptcy rarely discharges student loan debt. It typically takes death or total permanent disability to discharge student loans.
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This only applies to federal loans.

For private loans, if you die/permanently disabled, then someone in your family will have to pay off the debt. They have absolutely no leniency.
 
sproles134 said:
If you were going to give an incoming pharmacy student one word of advice, what would it be?
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Read


LOL, ok so that was more sarcastic than necessary. Have fun? Work? Good GPA? My advice is nothing special. Get a job (internship), work hard, network, and 99 times out of a hundred that is probably enough to get a job somewhere. If you are picky about where you want to work or have higher ambition than "just any job"...I don't know, I am not one of those people. 😉:laugh:
 
owlegrad said:
What?
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Yup, that's exactly what it says in my Citi Medical Student Private Loan.

Doesn't matter if I die or am disabled, the loan has to be paid off by me or my next of kin. Out of the 8 or so pages of size 3 font of the terms and condition, that one stood out the most.
 
sproles134 said:
Yup, that's exactly what it says in my Citi Medical Student Private Loan.

Doesn't matter if I die or am disabled, the loan has to be paid off by me or my next of kin. Out of the 8 or so pages of size 3 font of the terms and condition, that one stood out the most.
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It means they will attempt to go after your estate. But realize that if the estate is bankrupt they cannot go after your children, brother/sister or parents. Unless they were a co-signer.
 
Well, I somehow managed to find employment after graduation, in spite of it apparently being neigh impossible. 😳

owlegrad said:
Hahahah! I wish!

I am a fourth year student (my school calls us 4PDs) graduating May 2013, and supposedly I will be getting my offer letter in Sept for CVS. My debt is somewhere between "crushing" and "unfathomable".

Can't say starting salary yet.
Click to expand...

Two conflicting statements unless you were being sarcastic in the first one. One thing i can say i've seen for myself is that CVS doesn't hire much of their own interns compared to alot of other companies. Also, they terminate you if you haven't secured a position with them before you graduate. I've seen interns who have been with the company for several years not get an offer and fired after not being given a position. The only thing i like with CVS is that they interview you guys super early and gives you an answer early in the game.
Working with CVS supervisors for a period of time i can tell you things are getting very tight and less and less positions are becoming available even in rural areas. What's crazy though is if you do find a job you will hate it :laugh: (see the other threads) but it all depends where you work.
 
Pharmpills said:
Two conflicting statements unless you were being sarcastic in the first one. One thing i can say i've seen for myself is that CVS doesn't hire much of their own interns compared to alot of other companies. Also, they terminate you if you haven't secured a position with them before you graduate. I've seen interns who have been with the company for several years not get an offer and fired after not being given a position. The only thing i like with CVS is that they interview you guys super early and gives you an answer early in the game.
Working with CVS supervisors for a period of time i can tell you things are getting very tight and less and less positions are becoming available even in rural areas. What's crazy though is if you do find a job you will hate it :laugh: (see the other threads) but it all depends where you work.
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Is my command of the English language not good? I am getting an offer letter in Sept to work as a pharmacsit at CVS - "I somehow managed to find employment after graduation". Is that somehow not a true statement? I have a job lined up for after graduation. 😕
 
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