does 1/4 URM count?

It counts. I knew someone who applied as an underrepresented minority, and they were 1/8. 1/8 is the limit

Unless I've missed a major issue in our country lately, I do believe your ethnicity is decided based solely on self-identification. I have heard of required "amounts" of ethnicity (ie 1/2 or 1/4, whatever) in government for the purposes of quotas (I'm talking about military here . . . there are some "unspoken" quotas when it comes to promotions and such). I guess they want to make sure they're dealing with a true minority. I suppose people would lie about such things. Anyway, I've not heard of medical school asking for such proof of ethnicity. I look fairly "white", but I'm actually half Vietnamese. I always put down on any documentation that I'm Asian, and I've never been asked to prove it. And I know I look white, because I've actually been in several situations where people would make really racist remarks and look at me as if I would agree because I'm white (I realize there are numerous white people out there who would not appreciate a racist remark, but you'd be surprised how many racist people assume that ALL white people will agree with them). My point is, if you've always identified yourself a certain ethnicity, then stick with that. So if you've always claimed to be a URM then you are for the purposes of medical school. If you're just now realizing that you may have an advantage as a URM, but don't identify with that ethnicity at all, then I wouldn't put it. I could see questions arising if you aren't able to show any identification (whether you look ethnic, are aware of issues dealing with your ethnicity, etc) with whatever ethnicity you're claiming. I just wouldn't want to go down that road.

laura414 said:

It counts. I knew someone who applied as an underrepresented minority, and they were 1/8. 1/8 is the limit

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It only counts if you truly identify with the ethnic group -- do know that admissions committees consider your relationship with your ethnic group, and if you just check the box for the "preferential treatment", you will be known as a BOX CHECKER!

also, student interviewers pick this up very easily....

synapse said:

does being 1/4 URM count as being URM? or do you have to be full URM?

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Does it count? I love how some people on this forum treat URM status as if it's a secret passageway into medical school -- basically you're asking if knowing only half the password will get you through.

How do you identify yourself ethnically and racially? Do you feel that you ethnic/racial background has lead to any obstacles in the past that you have had to overcome? Or have you never really had to think about race until you were filling out the AMCAS application and you remembered that grandpa is a minority?

Seriously people, I think the fact that you can identify yourself as URM on your applications can really be helpful for some people and can lead to increased diversity in a medical school class, which is wonderful. But please don't use URM status as soley an application booster.

1/8? plessy v. fergusson was overturned by brown vs. board of education. haha, sorry, that 1/8 thing caught my eye.

its largely a self-identification system, its how you identify yourself as long as you can reasonably show that if you're called upon to.

SRQGirl said:

Does it count? I love how some people on this forum treat URM status as if it's a secret passageway into medical school -- basically you're asking if knowing only half the password will get you through.

How do you identify yourself ethnically and racially? Do you feel that you ethnic/racial background has lead to any obstacles in the past that you have had to overcome? Or have you never really had to think about race until you were filling out the AMCAS application and you remembered that grandpa is a minority?

Seriously people, I think the fact that you can identify yourself as URM on your applications can really be helpful for some people and can lead to increased diversity in a medical school class, which is wonderful. But please don't use URM status as soley an application booster.

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THANK YOU! SRQGirl

YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CreativeWriter said:

It only counts if you truly identify with the ethnic group -- do know that admissions committees consider your relationship with your ethnic group, and if you just check the box for the "preferential treatment", you will be known as a BOX CHECKER!

also, student interviewers pick this up very easily....

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I have know several students who are fully URM, but look really anglo. I don't think you can tell by looking at a person if they are full, 1/2, etc. Therefore, I don't know how a person who only meets someone for thirty minutes can assume they are only a box checker. I don't agree with your stereotyping of individuals that you have to look a certain way to be considered fully a minority. I don't know if that is what you meant, but I know a lot of people who are 1/2 URM, but look more like a URM than someone who wasn't biracial. You can't just assume someone is or isn't by an interview, unless you ask a lot of questions, which I might be wrong, but is not legal. I think it is just like asking someone what their sexual preferrence is.

Recall that URM == underrepresented minority == member of an ethnic groups underrepresented in medicine relative to representation in the population. Basically, this means Mexican-Americans, Native Americans, African-Americans, and main Puerto Ricans. If you consider yourself a member of one of these groups, then you are an underrepresented minority.

Hey Giving My 0.02 ---

What I meant with the definition of box checkers are those students who solely use their URM status to gain preferential treatment. It's completely legal to ask how do you hope to use your medical education for the improvement of your community...if the student fails to relate or acknowledge their community, as in ethnic community, then it's completely clear that the student is not really interested in the community they belong too (i.e. a box checker). i may be a little biased, as I have done research on educational policy, affirmative action, and the access to higher education of ethnic minorities -- which leads me to believe that some institutions are more interested in accepting URMs who are truly devoted to the advancement of their communities, vs. those who are URMs and have no concept or interest in improving the social, medical, and economic conditions of their ethnic groups through their profession. also, if the student has no clinical, volunteer, leadership, professional, or any sort of activity that relates to their ethnicity, that's usually another sign that they don't relate....so trust me, they can tell without asking the question of race in an interview...plus....remember that your application is read by many individuals, and while it may not come up on an interview, they may question the applicant in front of the final committee....

My point is that regardless of what you are...you have to IDENTIFY!!! someway or another with the group....no matter if you look or don't like full or 1/8....

hope this helps!

Giving My .02 said:

I have know several students who are fully URM, but look really anglo. I don't think you can tell by looking at a person if they are full, 1/2, etc. Therefore, I don't know how a person who only meets someone for thirty minutes can assume they are only a box checker. I don't agree with your stereotyping of individuals that you have to look a certain way to be considered fully a minority. I don't know if that is what you meant, but I know a lot of people who are 1/2 URM, but look more like a URM than someone who wasn't biracial. You can't just assume someone is or isn't by an interview, unless you ask a lot of questions, which I might be wrong, but is not legal. I think it is just like asking someone what their sexual preferrence is.

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CreativeWriter said:

Hey Giving My 0.02 ---

What I meant with the definition of box checkers are those students who solely use their URM status to gain preferential treatment. It's completely legal to ask how do you hope to use your medical education for the improvement of your community...if the student fails to relate or acknowledge their community, as in ethnic community, then it's completely clear that the student is not really interested in the community they belong too (i.e. a box checker). i may be a little biased, as I have done research on educational policy, affirmative action, and the access to higher education of ethnic minorities -- which leads me to believe that some institutions are more interested in accepting URMs who are truly devoted to the advancement of their communities, vs. those who are URMs and have no concept or interest in improving the social, medical, and economic conditions of their ethnic groups through their profession. also, if the student has no clinical, volunteer, leadership, professional, or any sort of activity that relates to their ethnicity, that's usually another sign that they don't relate....so trust me, they can tell without asking the question of race in an interview...plus....remember that your application is read by many individuals, and while it may not come up on an interview, they may question the applicant in front of the final committee....

My point is that regardless of what you are...you have to IDENTIFY!!! someway or another with the group....no matter if you look or don't like full or 1/8....

hope this helps!

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What if you are black and grew up in a white neighborhood where you were the only black family. Maybe you don't really "identify" with a black community, but why shouldn't you check the URM box? I think that if you have the physical characteristics, that is enough. Just because you watch "Freinds" and your parents belong to a country club doesn't mean that you're not black.

i61164 said:

What if you are black and grew up in a white neighborhood where you were the only black family. Maybe you don't really "identify" with a black community, but why shouldn't you check the URM box? I think that if you have the physical characteristics, that is enough. Just because you watch "Freinds" and your parents belong to a country club doesn't mean that you're not black.

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I61164 --

while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood hinders you from knowing the struggles of Black America, in college, or thereafter, anyone could seek exposure to a different environment. This exposure will help an indvidual identify him/herself with the larger community. Just because you weren't exposed to it while growing up, it doesn't preclude you form gaining an insight on your own!...ultimately, only you will know if you are a box checker or not!

CreativeWriter said:

I61164 --

while growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood hinders you from knowing the struggles of Black America, in college, or thereafter, anyone could seek exposure to a different environment. This exposure will help an indvidual identify him/herself with the larger community. Just because you weren't exposed to it while growing up, it doesn't preclude you form gaining an insight on your own!...ultimately, only you will know if you are a box checker or not!

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also, just because you look black it doesn't mean that while on your clinical work you will be more sensitive or aware of the struggles of your black patients!....this sensitivity is only gained through exposure...and if you didn't have it while growing up, you NEED to gain it before it's too late....otherwise you will be looked down by your patients -- which are ultimately the people you serve!

is there actually a box for URM status? for some reason i don't remember this. i checked caucasian and native american, because those are the two things i am. i wouldn't mark any sort of URM status box anyway cause i haven't suffered any hardships, i'm only 1/5, i don't really look native american, etc. so anyway, what is this box you're all talking about?

LauraMac said:

is there actually a box for URM status? for some reason i don't remember this. i checked caucasian and native american, because those are the two things i am.

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That's a good question. As far as I can tell, there is no check box for URM. By identifying as Native American, you probably automatically get "URM Status." Take a look at your application and see if there's a superscript by the Native American designation. I would be curious to know.

under ethnic self-description it says N/A. under racial self-description it says white, native american (st. croix chippewa). nothing says anything about urm. hmmm...

it won't say URM. if you marked any one of the categories that AMCAS considers URM (black, Mexican American, Native American, Puerto Rican, etc.,) most schools will think you are an URM

I was going to indicate my native american ethnicity but they wanted me to provide written documentation of employment at a casino and then take a dna test. Weird.

PublicEnemy said:

1/8? plessy v. fergusson was overturned by brown vs. board of education. haha, sorry, that 1/8 thing caught my eye.

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Good historical call. I did a paper on Plessy v. Ferguson back when...

I'd have to wonder if apperance alone wouldn't give you status in some cases - if I LOOK like a minority without checking the box, am I put into the URM category? Or must one "pursue" the tag?

dc

actually, appearance does factor in sometimes. a friend of mine identified herself as latin-american, she's caucasian, eastern european, but her whole family has been in a latin-american country for 2 generations. and thats where she was born and raised. some schools had identified her as a URM, and at a few of her interviews she was called on it. according to her, even at some really good top 5 schools, they were like, "you're latino? you look russian" she said she had to bust out and speak in spanish and talk about her upbringing to convince them she wasn't lying about her nationality/ethnicity. but i want to qualify that this particular applicant wasn't at all attempting to make people think she was a URM or try to use such a designation to her advantage, she had tremendous credentials (40mcat, 3.9gpa with a BS and MS in 4 years at an ivy) and was able to gain admission at every top 10 medical school. but it was the schools themselves which were doing the identifying/screening.

Khenon said:

Unless I've missed a major issue in our country lately, I do believe your ethnicity is decided based solely on self-identification.

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This is a fact - I took a class called "Race and Ethnicity in America" and we learned of this.

VPDcurt said:

This is a fact - I took a class called "Race and Ethnicity in America" and we learned of this.

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Thank you for the verification. I'm highly involved in minority affairs, and I've never heard of anyone "prooving" they were a minority.

However, people do need to realize that you do need to IDENTIFY with your ethnicity. Even after having said this, there still seems to be some confusion. I realize there is going to be some who don't necessarily identify, but are black (or whatever, I'm just using the example previously stated). If you're black, you're black, and that's the end of it. No one is going to question how you identify with the black community (it's not a requirement to being black). I think where the question comes in (like the OP asked) is those people who aren't full "whatever" and want to know if they're URM's. You just HAVE to identify with your ethnicity. That Latina example was perfect. She didn't look "ethnic" but was able to speak intelligently about her community and background, thus shutting down any claims that she wasn't Latina.

And you CAN identify with your ethnicity well beyond where your grew up. I grew up in rural Idaho and my mother, my sister, and I were THE ONLY minorities around. We were the "Chinese" kids (we're actually Vietnamese), and everyone knew us. But I was raised "white." I didn't identify with being Vietnamese at all. That didn't happen until I was in my mid-20's and was in college. I started getting involved with the minority clubs and learned alot about what being an American minority was about. I'm now very involved in minority issues, and try to keep up to date on Affirmative Action, URM's, and anything involving minorities in America.

I guess I'll stop ranting. I think the person who posted about "box checking" is dead on. If you don't identify with your ethnicity, and there's doubt in your mind that you "qualify" as a URM, then you probably shouldn't be claiming URM status.

CreativeWriter said:

THANK YOU! SRQGirl

YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Awwww! You made me blush!!

SRQGirl said:

Awwww! You made me blush!!

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You were totally reading my mind!
Glad that we are on the same wavelength....

CreativeWriter said:

also, just because you look black it doesn't mean that while on your clinical work you will be more sensitive or aware of the struggles of your black patients!....this sensitivity is only gained through exposure...and if you didn't have it while growing up, you NEED to gain it before it's too late....otherwise you will be looked down by your patients -- which are ultimately the people you serve!

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it doesn't matter where you grow up. if you are african-american, you live in a society where when you turn on the tv, people of your color are almost never portrayed in a positive light. Movies and tv shows do not feature people like you as heroines, heros, main characters, love interests (unless its to another black person), etc. You are stigmatized in the eyes of racist people whether you are rich or poor. You are followed in stores more often than whites. You live in this society. You deal with being a minority. And on that level, no matter where you grew up, you will relate better to your black patients than a white person.

stinkycheese said:

it doesn't matter where you grow up. if you are african-american, you live in a society where when you turn on the tv, people of your color are almost never portrayed in a positive light. Movies and tv shows do not feature people like you as heroines, heros, main characters, love interests (unless its to another black person), etc. You are stigmatized in the eyes of racist people whether you are rich or poor. You are followed in stores more often than whites. You live in this society. You deal with being a minority. And on that level, no matter where you grew up, you will relate better to your black patients than a white person.

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Good point Stinkycheese. But do realize that not all minorities are aware of discrimination or any mistreatment, or "different" treatment for that matter. I honestly never thought twice about the issues you brought up UNTIL I started getting involved with the minority groups. I realized that just because I wasn't suffering any injustices (or didn't notice them) didn't mean that others weren't, so I needed to stay open minded. Again, I agree that if you're black, hispanic, native american (or any other "obvious" ethnicity) there should not be any question as to whether or not you're that ethnicity. It doesn't matter if you identify with that culture or not. The only time this is an issue is with in-betweeners (for lack of better term).

Khenon said:

Good point Stinkycheese. But do realize that not all minorities are aware of discrimination or any mistreatment, or "different" treatment for that matter. I honestly never thought twice about the issues you brought up UNTIL I started getting involved with the minority groups. I realized that just because I wasn't suffering any injustices (or didn't notice them) didn't mean that others weren't, so I needed to stay open minded. Again, I agree that if you're black, hispanic, native american (or any other "obvious" ethnicity) there should not be any question as to whether or not you're that ethnicity. It doesn't matter if you identify with that culture or not. The only time this is an issue is with in-betweeners (for lack of better term).

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Agreed. Based on the anecdotal evidence, if you look the part, nobody will question why you identified yourself as black, hispanic, whatever on the app. If you really are 50% black, but you look 100% white, you might get some questions. However, does that mean you shouldn't put down both caucasian/black on the app? I don't think so. You shouldn't lie on the application just because you don't think that you look black enough. If you have a black parent or grandparent, you should include black as an ethnicity on the app, whether or not you identify with the black community. You are not claiming to be a URM. As was pointed out, there is no URM checkbox. You are just being honest about your ethnicity. If an interviewer asks you about it, you can honestly tell them that your parent/grandparent is black and you just look more like the other parent.