Affirmative Action Again!!!

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Chankovsky

Every time I see an URM get into an ivy league school with a 25 mcat and 3.5 gpa, it makes me cringe in thinking how unfair this process is. What's worse is the fact that that person's gain is someone else's loss. I don't care how great your ECs are, when your stats are this low, you're not fit to be a doc.
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Chankovsky said:
Every time I see an URM get into an ivy league school with a 25 mcat and 3.5 gpa, it makes me cringe in thinking how unfair this process is. What's worse is the fact that that person's gain is someone else's loss. I don't care how great your ECs are, when your stats are this low, you're not fit to be a doc.
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I don't want to be a hater, but are you a troll or something?

Your last point is particularly stupid, in my opinion.
 
my point is that lowering the lowering of standards for a physician can have serious repercussions 10 years down the road when that person is called upon to save lives.
 
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Maybe a troll, maybe not - but definitely an elitist that thinks a bit too much of himself.

You know the type - the physician that looks down on everyone else because they didn't go to a good enough school, so OBVIOUSLY they can't be as qualified a physician.

Grow up and pull your head out of your @ss.
 
Chankovsky said:
my point is that lowering the lowering of standards for a physician can have serious repercussions 10 years down the road when that person is called upon to save lives.
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Can you prove that having a higher GPA or MCAT score improves a doctor's ability to compassionately save lives?
 
yes. gpa is a measure of a person's motivation for hard work. mcat is an indicator of a person's intelligence. Both are measures of competence which are essential to being able to compassionately save lives.
 
Hmm.....another AA debate, I too have strong feelings on this one, but common sense tells me that I should keep them to myself since I doubt anyone on this forum will change their mind.
 
I am a URM and I don't have stellar stats overall but I am confident that if you and I were in a class together, I would score higher on any test. I have a 3.3 overall gpa because I have 60 credits in engineering with a 2.0 gpa (I originally didn't want to be a doctor so I wasn't really concerned with grades as much as learning and I had some family issues (typical)) but once I decided on medicine, I earned a full biology degree with a 4.0 gpa, which I earned while taking an average of 22 credits per semester and completed the 4 year degree in only two years. I also played varsity basketball, and worked 25-30 hours per week in a lab during this time. I most definitely am better looking than you as I was a model in France for a year and a half and I am very personable and NOT high on myself (although it may sound like I am!) I am just trying to prove my point that sometimes "numbers" are deceiving. Now my statements are presumptuous in terms of the fact that you may be some sort of well-rounded genius (which I highly doubt considering you started this ridiculous thread). I personally don't think that race should matter in the application process but since it is, I plan on using it to my advantage in this "game". Why not worry about trying to get one of the other 16,000 medical school seats instead of worrying about the few that go to someone with relatively lower stats? This whole application process is so random anyways so why fret? Despite all of this, good luck with your future plans.
 
I dont mean to sound like a dick, but when caucasians complain about affirmative action, it really is a pile of ****. Try being south asian. You are an overrepresented minority. You compete for minority seating, with the most competitive applicants in the country. You might think im full of myself for saying this, but I'm not the one bringing it up. I just hate when caucasians complain about how unfair the process is when its easier for them than south asians.
 
Chankovsky said:
yes. gpa is a measure of a person's motivation for hard work. mcat is an indicator of a person's intelligence. Both are measures of competence which are essential to being able to compassionately save lives.
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Funniest post ever! :laugh:
 
um...dude.... I am south asian. That's why I'm feeling your pain.
 
Okay...I bite. So please tell me what exactly you do? :mad: Does your position in the medical totem pole (so to speak) merit that we even pay ANY attention to you? One thing that you'll quickly learn is that when you have the urge to make silly comments and simply don't have the credentials nor the mental fortitude to back them...please simply keep them to yourself! I'll kick your :laugh: in the OR!
Chankovsky said:
Every time I see an URM get into an ivy league school with a 25 mcat and 3.5 gpa, it makes me cringe in thinking how unfair this process is. What's worse is the fact that that person's gain is someone else's loss. I don't care how great your ECs are, when your stats are this low, you're not fit to be a doc.
Click to expand...
 
gilly1980 said:
I am a URM and I don't have stellar stats overall but I am confident that if you and I were in a class together, I would score higher on any test. I have a 3.3 overall gpa because I have 60 credits in engineering with a 2.0 gpa (I originally didn't want to be a doctor so I wasn't really concerned with grades as much as learning and I had some family issues (typical)) but once I decided on medicine, I earned a full biology degree with a 4.0 gpa, which I earned while taking an average of 22 credits per semester and completed the 4 year degree in only two years. I also played varsity basketball, and worked 25-30 hours per week in a lab during this time. I most definitely am better looking than you as I was a model in France for a year and a half and I am very personable and NOT high on myself (although it may sound like I am!) I am just trying to prove my point that sometimes "numbers" are deceiving. Now my statements are presumptuous in terms of the fact that you may be some sort of well-rounded genius (which I highly doubt considering you started this ridiculous thread). I personally don't think that race should matter in the application process but since it is, I plan on using it to my advantage in this "game". Why not worry about trying to get one of the other 16,000 medical school seats instead of worrying about the few that go to someone with relatively lower stats? This whole application process is so random anyways so why fret? Despite all of this, good luck with your future plans.
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Haha. Most defensive person ever!!! PS - Stay in France - the place is a hell hole so it sounds like a perfect match.
 
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What are your stats??? Let's compare...I'm "under-represented". I'm actually a AA X 2...get it...probably not :confused: :eek:

Chankovsky said:
yes. gpa is a measure of a person's motivation for hard work. mcat is an indicator of a person's intelligence. Both are measures of competence which are essential to being able to compassionately save lives.
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crybaby.png


"life is slipping out of my fingers"

--Anonymous
 
my fault then, I feel your pain as well, but I think the idea is a good one, the actual effectiveness is not. But I also do feel that being asian I have had many benefits that other people may not have gotten (even some other asians havent gotten). For example, I've never had to work during college to earn money for tuition (I did do some work but not to make money to pay tuition). Also, if I ever needed somehting for any academic reason, I got it. I do know of people at my college who couldnt take the prep classes b/c they couldnt afford it. In theory I do think AA is a good idea, but I too do see where you are coming from.
 
One technique for writing is to use bold statements that catch your attention and follow them up with a lesson or moral truth. My post was not about being defensive but instead was intended to enlighten someone who honestly thinks that you can accurately predict who will make a better doctor based on a number out of 4 and one test you took on either a warm/wet spring day or a hot/humid summer morning!
 
Chankovsky said:
Every time I see an URM get into an ivy league school with a 25 mcat and 3.5 gpa, it makes me cringe in thinking how unfair this process is. What's worse is the fact that that person's gain is someone else's loss. I don't care how great your ECs are, when your stats are this low, you're not fit to be a doc.
Click to expand...

So please enlighten us about what it "takes" to be a physician? Dude you're a joke! :laugh:

Please please please share your stats and what makes you so special. The entire SDN family can look at you and see "if" you are fit to be a medical student. 1st question (AND DON'T GO LOOK IT UP!). What are the 6 P's of Compartment Syndrome? See how long it takes ya...we're all waiting...
 
Bunch of tools ! The system does work, seeing as you got a few acceptances in med school, Chankovsky. So much for ''adcoms'' caring about personality and all that BS. :rolleyes:
 
Chankovsky said:
yes. gpa is a measure of a person's motivation for hard work. mcat is an indicator of a person's intelligence. Both are measures of competence which are essential to being able to compassionately save lives.
Click to expand...

I love how you're quantifying compassion. Priceless.
 
Chankovsky said:
Every time I see an URM get into an ivy league school with a 25 mcat and 3.5 gpa, it makes me cringe in thinking how unfair this process is. What's worse is the fact that that person's gain is someone else's loss. I don't care how great your ECs are, when your stats are this low, you're not fit to be a doc.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm a URM who got a 32 on the MCAT and has a 3.2GPA. Can I be a doc, Mister?
 
You're full of **** gilly1980. No, gpa is not just a number out of 4. It represents years of hard work, and trust me, hard work is what you need to get through med. school. How convenient for you to marginalize something that's not your strong point.
 
SitraAchra said:
I love how you're quantifying compassion. Priceless.
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Dude...I knew it!!! He's not even in Medicine. Let's just ignore him if he can't answer these questions in a reasonable time.
 
Actually I think that my gpa is my strong point...I think what I accomplished may actually have more weight than someone who consistently got between a 3.6-3.8 gpa...but this is only MY opinion and I am biased...lol
 
SitraAchra said:
I love how you're quantifying compassion. Priceless.
Click to expand...



sure, I'll give it to you, you can't quantify compassion. But is it fair that a person stands to benefit because of his/her ethnicity? That's the argument here.
 
Guys...I'm serious. Let's just ignore this nonsense. Someone has a quote in their message that simply says wrong is wrong...no matter who does it...no matter who says (or somethin' like that :) Let's just ignore this guy. Does anyone have any questions about what medical school is like? I'm here to answer your questions for a little bit...
gilly1980 said:
Actually I think that my gpa is my strong point...I think want I accomplished may actually have more weight than someone who consistently got between a 3.6-3.8 gpa...but this is only MY opinion and I am biased...lol
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chankovsky...if south asians were considered URM's, would you indicate it on your AMCAS app? ...and you want to talk to me about convenience!
 
We're waiting...okay the answer is:
1. Pain
2. Parasthesias
3. Pallor
4. Pulselessness
5. Poikilothermia
6. Paralysis

Okay...that makes you 0/1...you're failing this test at this point...

Chankovsky said:
sure, I'll give it to you, you can't quantify compassion. But is it fair that a person stands to benefit because of his/her ethnicity? That's the argument here.
Click to expand...
 
gilly1980 said:
chankovsky...if south asians were considered URM's, would you indicate it on your AMCAS app? ...and you want to talk to me about convenience!
Click to expand...

don't u think your jumping the gun here.
 
boyz of 4d said:
I dont mean to sound like a dick, but when caucasians complain about affirmative action, it really is a pile of ****. Try being south asian. You are an overrepresented minority. You compete for minority seating, with the most competitive applicants in the country. You might think im full of myself for saying this, but I'm not the one bringing it up. I just hate when caucasians complain about how unfair the process is when its easier for them than south asians.
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ahh, the struggles of desihood.....
 
Question #2 What are the treatment recommendations for a 48 year old female from South African that presents to your office with a 4.8 cm. AAA(You scan her records and find that it was the same size last year. Should you...

a. rush her off to surgery...as she could die at any moment!
b. wait until next year to treat it...it hasn't grown!
c. treat her electively but urgently as she is going to die

why did you chose that answer???
 
Geez, why so defensive gilly? I can understand the OPs point of view though. URMs do consistently get in with lower numbers. I mean, according to the AMCAS numbers, I think the average MCAT scores are something like 3 points lower on average.

That's a pretty big dropoff.

Besides, why is it more likely that an admissions committee will look past a URMs numbers just because they are a URM? Why aren't whites or ORMs getting that same benefit of the doubt on a more consistent basis, because I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of asians with 27s on their MCATs that are applying to medical school, yet the overall average for asians is a 30.

That's not to say there aren't qualified URMs, it's just blatantly unfair that particular races re judged by different standards. What happened to equality and the fight to be judged on one's abilities and not the color of their skin.
 
AA pisses me off sometimes. But I guess deep down, I do understand the need for it(not that I think it's fair). Oh well. Before this thread balloons to another 10 pages, I'll call it nonsense and end it here.
 
actually, i take it all back, I agree with the original poster...lol...Race Should NOT matter...I do like debating though...
 
Haha...Chankovsky threads are the best. You get ahold of that life yet? Or is it still slipping away? Maybe we should rush you to the ER! OH wait, before we do, I'll be sure to ask the doctor what his undegraduate GPA and MCAT score are first, and see if it qualifies him for compassionately taking care of you. Sound okay?

:laugh:
 
Trolling or not, you need to STFU. The URMs getting into top medical schools are on par with the rest of the students there. People like you try to discredit them for the color of their skin and have no idea how deserving they actually are. It's not their fault you're having trouble in the process - there's ~14,000 seats they don't take up. If you were really an applicant of quality, you wouldn't be whining about someone getting in over you because they had slightly lower numbers.

No matter how smart/talented you are, there's always someone of another race/ethnicity better than you - so don't hate, *sshole.
 
Vomitonme said:
That's not to say there aren't qualified URMs, it's just blatantly unfair that particular races re judged by different standards. What happened to equality and the fight to be judged on one's abilities and not the color of their skin.
Click to expand...

I'm half South Asian, and that is my biggest problem with Affirmative Action. It is a different form of prejudice because people are still being judged based on their race and heritage. However, with that being said, I think that there is a basis to Affirmative Action because there is a correlation between ethnicity and educational opportunities. Minorities are generally found in a larger proportion in innner city school districts so they are not given the best educational opportunities for primary and secondary school, so they are not as prepared for college courses or for tests like the MCATs. But, correlation does not indicate causation, and a more accurate cause of the problem is that a greater proportion of minorities have a lower socioeconomic status, which is why the school systems they are able to attend are lower quality. Thus, (and this is completely my opinion) a better solution to the use of AA is to do it on an economic based standard rather than race based so that the prejudices are not as prevalent.
 
So what about the generic middle class white kids with the low stats who get in? Are they worthy of the white coat?
 
gilly1980 said:
I am a URM and I don't have stellar stats overall but I am confident that if you and I were in a class together, I would score higher on any test. I have a 3.3 overall gpa because I have 60 credits in engineering with a 2.0 gpa (I originally didn't want to be a doctor so I wasn't really concerned with grades as much as learning and I had some family issues (typical)) but once I decided on medicine, I earned a full biology degree with a 4.0 gpa, which I earned while taking an average of 22 credits per semester and completed the 4 year degree in only two years. I also played varsity basketball, and worked 25-30 hours per week in a lab during this time. I most definitely am better looking than you as I was a model in France for a year and a half and I am very personable and NOT high on myself (although it may sound like I am!) I am just trying to prove my point that sometimes "numbers" are deceiving. Now my statements are presumptuous in terms of the fact that you may be some sort of well-rounded genius (which I highly doubt considering you started this ridiculous thread). I personally don't think that race should matter in the application process but since it is, I plan on using it to my advantage in this "game". Why not worry about trying to get one of the other 16,000 medical school seats instead of worrying about the few that go to someone with relatively lower stats? This whole application process is so random anyways so why fret? Despite all of this, good luck with your future plans.
Click to expand...
Quiet gilly, this post proves your insecurity. I will OWN you in med school.
 
Oh and this thread should be preserved forever as the first time Chankovsky actively took part in one of his own threads.
 
MWillie said:
Quiet gilly, this post proves your insecurity. I will OWN you in med school.
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I didn't realize I was for sale...I am a guy by the way so why on earth would you want to "own" another guy...are you into the whole same sex thing cause I'm NOT...good luck with that though...lol
 
Uh oh!!! (Eddy covers his head) He does have a point!
MedicineBird said:
So what about the generic middle class white kids with the low stats who get in? Are they worthy of the white coat?
Click to expand...
 
Affirmative action is a very tricky issue, I personally believe that it should not be removed, but changed so that the process becomes fairer (based more on merit)

btw, does anyone know why it is called affirmative action? affirmative means asserting that something is true or correct, right? so if this is because of slavery, why are hispanics included? Historically speaking, only blacks and American Indians should be URMS. if all minorities who do not perform well are considered as URMs, then what is the point of working hard?

I wonder who came up with the term and why
 
gilly1980 said:
I didn't realize I was for sale...I am a guy by the way so why on earth would you want to "own" another guy...are you into the whole same sex thing cause I'm NOT...good luck with that though...lol
Click to expand...

oh, and I really do hope that there are many highly intelligent beings in my medical class because I enjoy the challenge of someone pushing me to achieve greater success....I accept your challenge sir MWillie...lol
 
gilly1980 said:
I didn't realize I was for sale...I am a guy by the way so why on earth would you want to "own" another guy...are you into the whole same sex thing cause I'm NOT...good luck with that though...lol
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Haha, you're a funny man. Next time don't post your "Complete Summary of My Life" for crappy reasons in useless threads, you'll look less of a selfabsorbed ass.
 
MWillie said:
Haha, you're a funny man. Next time don't post your "Complete Summary of My Life" for crappy reasons in useless threads, you'll look less of a selfabsorbed ass.
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Actually if you read all of my posts in this thread you will see that I was making a point...but what if I like being thought of as a selfabsorbed *ss
 
SteadyEddy said:
Uh oh!!! (Eddy covers his head) He does have a point!
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:laugh: hehehe poor Eddy - you're 0 for 2 in your gender assignments tonight. I'm most definitely a she.
 
I just started to read this thread...and 4 posts or so down I think I have read the GAYEST comeback in my life....

gilly1980 said:
I most definitely am better looking than you as I was a model in France for a year and a half
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Wow. If you're better looking than me, that must mean you're gonna be a better doctor :laugh:
 
Chankovsky said:
AA pisses me off sometimes. But I guess deep down, I do understand the need for it(not that I think it's fair). Oh well. Before this thread balloons to another 10 pages, I'll call it nonsense and end it here.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand the need for it (I know, I know; how insensitive and what a terrible person I must be). Frankly, cultural change needs to occur in certain communities in this nation. Hard work can pull you out of the gloom and doom and into prosperity in this country more than any other in the world. It doesn't help that we live in a society that loves to create victims out of people and tells that they should feel entitled to something and that others should feel guilty about it.

Growing up, my dad had one pair of jeans and one pair of dress pants. That was it. He worked 80-hours a week and made something of himself. No one gave him a dime.

I'm not one of these people who is going to go shouting on the rooftops how unfair AA is, but I do think it's wrong and ultimately counterproductive.

There really isn't any good that's coming out of whining, though, and I think pointing fingers is also counterproductive.

So I'm done with this thread.
 
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