AMCAS applicants read me!

Hey guys...Just got this mass email from an admissions officer @ my u/g school. I got my advice for the activities section from SDN, and this goes against some of what applicants (including me) were going to do. Max 500 words? "Less is more" in terms of # of activities or word description? I had written them out with what they meant to me, etc. &%^$#*@(!($&$^%%!!!!!!!!!!! I am sick of re-writing this BS!!

Let me know what you guys think, hopefully it will help all of us non-June 1 submitters/gunners lol
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To all of you currently working on this year’s AMCAS I thought the follow information would be helpful in completing your applications. Each year many of you labor over knowing where/how/how much experience to include within the “Work and Activities” section within the AMCAS or AACOMAS. This information would also be useful for those of you filling out applications for other health careers as well.

This information was excerpted from e-mails I have received from individuals (file readers) at different schools who actually read the applications. R





This is the sort of abbreviated "map" I give to the applicants who ask me how to tackle that section:

* Think carefully about which kind of experiences were really meaningful to you -- don't try to fill out space. We are very good at recognizing bs.
* High school activities are important only to underline continuity during college at increased levels of participation, leadership or responsibility (e.g., you've played a musical instrument, participated in the high school orchestra and are now in the college orchestra, etc.)
* Don't repeat what's obvious from answers to things like experience type, title description, contact name & title or organization name (e.g, don't repeat in the description that you worked on research with Dr. So and So -- that information is above the description of your experience).
* If the organization in which you participated is not well known, give a brief description followed by the role you played there, specially if it involved any type of responsibility.
* If you made Dean's list (or any type of honor like that) for more than one semester, use the description area to list the other semesters.
* If you received any scholarship, fellowship or other honor that is not nationally recognizable, describe it briefly. Don't waste paper on scholarships that are awarded to half the population at the school.
* If you were just a member of an organization, let us know how many meetings/week you attended and why you joined.
* If you list a publication, make sure it's been accepted for publication and cite it properly. If the paper is just being "prepared for submission" or "submitted," include this fact as part of the research description in the part where you listed the research activity.
* If listing a research experience that extends through the academic year as well as summer, use the description area to let us know the time invested during each of those periods (e.g., full time during the summer, 10 hrs/week in the fall/spring blah blah blah)
* Remember that each experience you list is "up for grabs" if you are invited to interview -- you might be asked anything about it and it can make you or break you.

This is just a short list I made after being frustrated reading thousands of applications that didn't give me the information I wanted or asking a question during an interview about an experience I found interesting on the application and learning that the participation had been so minimal or superficial as to make the experience worthless.




I agree with most of what has been said about the change in the activities instruction, which I will summarize as follows:

* Less is definitely more
* Descriptions only in activities section - the interview will establish what they learned and how it will add to the skills and attitudes of an excellent physician
* Explicit instructions are mandatory -particularly for undergraduates
* High school activities should not be listed unless they were continued in the post high school years, but never as an additional item.





It is also clear that the applicants must maximize the quality (distinct from quantity) of information that they present. For students who do not have exceptional numbers (i.e., GPA, MCATs), this is especially important to their chances of being invited for an interview. If they do not convey in the best possible light who they are, what they have done, how they have grown from what they have done, and what they gave; then they may not have the chance to do so at an interview.



I continue to beleive that applicants should convey the highlights of what they got out of and gave to relevant experiences, but I will emphasize to my students the importance of being concise. I will suggest they they impose on themselves a limit of 500 characters, and that they only approach this limit if what they have to say is important, and does not duplicate information elsewhere in the application.

This is very similar to information I recieved both from my premed advisor and the chair of admissions at my school. I think this is standard stuff, but it's good to keep it in mind.

Aside from similar things that have been posted in the past few days, I think a lot of us have been recommending that people do not fill up space in the EC section, either in number of activities or in the description of activities. It's just a place to say what we did, not to tell stories or go into any depth on things. One or two of mine have a short sentence about why the activity was important, but not more than that, and I think that's probably okay. I think the suggestion of a 500 character limit is a good idea, but you don't have to be too strict about it. For example, some people are listing multiple publications or activities under one section, so they may go over this limit. But I think the advice to not go over this if it's just describing why the activity was important is good.

anyway, sounds like good advice to me (you're lucky you have an advisor who knows what he/she is talking about! my advisor probably doesn't even know what the different sections of AMCAS are like at all!)

tigress said:

Aside from similar things that have been posted in the past few days, I think a lot of us have been recommending that people do not fill up space in the EC section, either in number of activities or in the description of activities. It's just a place to say what we did, not to tell stories or go into any depth on things. One or two of mine have a short sentence about why the activity was important, but not more than that, and I think that's probably okay. I think the suggestion of a 500 character limit is a good idea, but you don't have to be too strict about it. For example, some people are listing multiple publications or activities under one section, so they may go over this limit. But I think the advice to not go over this if it's just describing why the activity was important is good.

anyway, sounds like good advice to me (you're lucky you have an advisor who knows what he/she is talking about! my advisor probably doesn't even know what the different sections of AMCAS are like at all!)

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Thanks. On the thread I read, people said they used all the space for long-term activites that they had a lot to say about. So we can put >1 under a category? I have a few questions if anyone can help I would really appreciate it.
1) If I'm putting my honors research, do I include award grant $ in there too, or in a different EC slot named "honors/awards, etc" if I had to apply for it?
2) Worked ~30 hours a week for a year, b/t 2 different retail places. Figured I'd list b/c it was a lot of time...can I put together, and how do I add contact info? I don't want to put the 4 month job in its own slot...
3) Posters@ conference: Same as pubs? Full citation? How do we cite them format wise in the little box we type into? List in same EC box as the research that got us to the conference?
4) Do not list high school activities...I don't know if I should list volunteering I did in a dr. office. Started after graduation, stopped when I left for college. So it wasn't HS or college. Idk...
5) Is this possible: lump together ~3 honor societies we're in, where we don't do much time wise? Definately would not put them under their own.
6) Some of the contacts left, trying to figure out who to put. Are they going to actually contact them? If they don't, I'll just put the old one b/c it won't matter.

Would you be willing to show me how you did yours or something, so I can make sure I'm doing it right? I don't know what to write about my research. The complete description of what I did and what we were trying to do takes the full 1300.

Thanks 😀

I would be careful about following the advice of others in limiting what you write in these sections. Limiting your character count in place of using "filler" is a smart idea. Limiting relevant information to your research or other activity seems foolish. I would imagine that the people in admissions are looking at these activities as a way to guage who you are. Do you want to be thought of as a person whose perspective is completely dry and void of personality? I would not advise writing a poem, but express who you are.

As for listing awards, honor societies, etc..., I described them all in one activity, along with professional distinctions and certifications. Those are the types of things that are simple to describe without being overly wordy (not sure if that is even a word, ha!). I did list one presentation separately, but it was significant. My activities section descriptions range from ~450 to 1150 characters. The longer descriptions are for ongoing volunteering, my work, and a significant shadowing experiences.

The committees who read applications are doing their job (they are paid to read them). The majority of schools receive ~1000 applications and have a number of people to look through them. I imagine that many are screened based solely on grades, cutting that number down drastically. Do you think that including a sentence or two per activity is really going to hurt you if it helps describe who you are?

Just my thoughts. Good luck!

Adam

aamartin81 said:

The committees who read applications are doing their job (they are paid to read them). The majority of schools receive ~1000 applications and have a number of people to look through them.

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Try 6,000 applications. Divided among 30-36 readers. It takes about 3-4 hours week for 20 weeks. Plus meetings to go over interviewer notes and rank the applicants who have interviewed. No one on the adcom gets paid. It is a volunteer thing that is part of being a "good citizen" of the university. Some of the readers are contributed service physicians (in private practice at the med school's teaching hospital), regular full-time faculty, semi-retired faculty members, 4th year med students, alumni not otherwise affiliated with the med school or an affiliated hospital. Likewise, the interviewers do it "on the side" in addition to their usual jobs. The exception is the Dean of Admissions (sometimes there are associate deans, too) and office personnel in the admissions office.

NikkiFSU said:

Max 500 words?

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last year when i applied it was 500 or so characters. definitely not 500 words. please take note as the difference is huge.

NikkiFSU said:

* Less is definitely more
* Descriptions only in activities section - the interview will establish what they learned and how it will add to the skills and attitudes of an excellent physician * Explicit instructions are mandatory -particularly for undergraduates
* High school activities should not be listed unless they were continued in the post high school years, but never as an additional item.

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What about schools that have a closed file for your interview?

LizzyM said:

Try 6,000 applications. Divided among 30-36 readers. It takes about 3-4 hours week for 20 weeks. Plus meetings to go over interviewer notes and rank the applicants who have interviewed. No one on the adcom gets paid. It is a volunteer thing that is part of being a "good citizen" of the university. Some of the readers are contributed service physicians (in private practice at the med school's teaching hospital), regular full-time faculty, semi-retired faculty members, 4th year med students, alumni not otherwise affiliated with the med school or an affiliated hospital. Likewise, the interviewers do it "on the side" in addition to their usual jobs. The exception is the Dean of Admissions (sometimes there are associate deans, too) and office personnel in the admissions office.

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Take a look through the MSAR, the majority of schools have roughly 1000-1500 applications. The exceptions are the New York, California, D.C., and highly competitive (Stanford, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc...) schools. If you want to insist that none of the falculty on the adcom is being paid, see how many of them are doing the job on their free time. That may not be their primary responsibility to the University, but I can gaurantee you that it is done during their normal hours of work (so yes, they are being paid to do it). I have heard of some alumni and med-students who volunteer, but remember I am speaking in terms of generalities, not absolutes.

I am not trying to debate the process of adcoms, or how many applications goto each school. My point is not to limit yourself to a certain number of characters bellow those allowed by AMCAS, just to maintain a sense of brevity. If you have something important to say, say it.

Good luck,

Adam

NikkiFSU said:

Thanks. On the thread I read, people said they used all the space for long-term activites that they had a lot to say about. So we can put >1 under a category? I have a few questions if anyone can help I would really appreciate it.
1) If I'm putting my honors research, do I include award grant $ in there too, or in a different EC slot named "honors/awards, etc" if I had to apply for it?

Click to expand...

I think you should include it with the research, but mention that you had to apply for it. The two really go together.

2) Worked ~30 hours a week for a year, b/t 2 different retail places. Figured I'd list b/c it was a lot of time...can I put together, and how do I add contact info? I don't want to put the 4 month job in its own slot...

Click to expand...

Not really sure. You might want to check the big AMCAS thread, I think some people discussed this in there.

3) Posters@ conference: Same as pubs? Full citation? How do we cite them format wise in the little box we type into? List in same EC box as the research that got us to the conference?

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Personally I put my research fellowship, the abstract and poster, the poster contest at my school that I won, and the conference I attended all under one slot. It's not even that long, because I just said I got the fellowship, I worked in so-and-so's immunology lab studying lupus, I wrote an abstract and made a poster with such-and-such title, it won first place in my school poster contest, and I presented it at a national conference. No more, no less.

4) Do not list high school activities...I don't know if I should list volunteering I did in a dr. office. Started after graduation, stopped when I left for college. So it wasn't HS or college. Idk...
5) Is this possible: lump together ~3 honor societies we're in, where we don't do much time wise? Definately would not put them under their own.
6) Some of the contacts left, trying to figure out who to put. Are they going to actually contact them? If they don't, I'll just put the old one b/c it won't matter.

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No clue about 4. Lots of people are completely leaving off honor societies, but if they were important to you there's no problem in lumping them together under one description. From what I read on the other AMCAS thread, it doesn't matter if you can't put a contact for some of the activities. It seems they don't contact them, unless maybe a specific school is extra interested in an activity, or doubts that you really did it, or maybe it was at that school. I left a few of my contact infos blank, and for others I just put like a dean or something.

Would you be willing to show me how you did yours or something, so I can make sure I'm doing it right? I don't know what to write about my research. The complete description of what I did and what we were trying to do takes the full 1300.

Thanks 😀

Click to expand...

I'll PM you some of mine

aamartin81 said:

I would be careful about following the advice of others in limiting what you write in these sections. Limiting your character count in place of using "filler" is a smart idea. Limiting relevant information to your research or other activity seems foolish. I would imagine that the people in admissions are looking at these activities as a way to guage who you are. Do you want to be thought of as a person whose perspective is completely dry and void of personality? I would not advise writing a poem, but express who you are.

As for listing awards, honor societies, etc..., I described them all in one activity, along with professional distinctions and certifications. Those are the types of things that are simple to describe without being overly wordy (not sure if that is even a word, ha!). I did list one presentation separately, but it was significant. My activities section descriptions range from ~450 to 1150 characters. The longer descriptions are for ongoing volunteering, my work, and a significant shadowing experiences.

The committees who read applications are doing their job (they are paid to read them). The majority of schools receive ~1000 applications and have a number of people to look through them. I imagine that many are screened based solely on grades, cutting that number down drastically. Do you think that including a sentence or two per activity is really going to hurt you if it helps describe who you are?

Just my thoughts. Good luck!

Adam

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This is my philosophy precisely. Be concise, cut the fluff and BS, but feel free to use every last available character if you have something important to say.

NikkiFSU said:

6) Some of the contacts left, trying to figure out who to put. Are they going to actually contact them? If they don't, I'll just put the old one b/c it won't matter.

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I doubt they'll try to contact any of them, especially since the AMCAS doesn't actually require contact information (e-mail address, phone number, etc.) Isn't that surprising? Am I missing something??

aamartin81 said:

Take a look through the MSAR, the majority of schools have roughly 1000-1500 applications. The exceptions are the New York, California, D.C., and highly competitive (Stanford, Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, etc...) schools.

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Er, wrong. University of Iowa? 2277. Creighton? 4210. UNC? 2921. Ohio State? 3732.

There were a few under 1000, but that was a minority, and it was usually schools that accept a majority of in-state applicants only.

There must be a reason they increased the character limit to 1300 characters this year though? Perhaps the adcom wanted to see more?

In an initial screening, they probably won't read a description, but if they're trying to decide between you and another candidate for an interview or for admission, having a good EC section might help?

Guys, for the most part adcoms just do NOT have enough time to sit there and really "read" ALL EC's, and the PS really. They get thousands of applications and it would be extremely time consuming to go through the EC section with a fine tooth comb. The OP made some excellent points handed via pre-med office who received that from adcoms! what else do you want? sure you can go ahead and spend hours doing these but trust me MOST will just be "glanced" at AND you do NOT want to go into detail on some EC and then AGAIN in the PS. If the EC is *that* important then you need to maybe consider discussing it on the PS. Yes, most applicants lump ALL honors/awards received under ONE category why use up three categories to highlight that yes you received honors and awards? also ALL research "can" go under one category, no, you usually do not go into excruciating detail about your lab duties..just put down where/when/PI and any pub. Later, if you get invited for interview *then* you will need to go into excruciating detail about your research. If you did any type of job (retail, serving tables, whatever) and they are ALL of the same type lump them! again, why use three or two slots to put down "worked in Sears X department for X amount of time" and then AGAIN on some other slot "worked in JC Penney X department for X amount of time" this is a no brainer. Adcoms are busy people that for the most part "volunteered" for this and lead extremely busy lives and although yes, we send in lots of $$$ for secondaries it is still prudent to keep things concise. Many pre-meds are under the impression that more is better, this is not so. You do NOT have to fill in ALL slots allowed adcoms *can* see through the BS!

efex101 said:

Guys, for the most part adcoms just do NOT have enough time to sit there and really "read" ALL EC's, and the PS really. They get thousands of applications and it would be extremely time consuming to go through the EC section with a fine tooth comb.

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In my experience, at least one member of the adcom will spend at least 20-30 minutes looking at your #s, & reading your EC, PS and secondary.

The easier it is for the reader to get a feeling for you, your experiences, your motivation, and your personality, the better. Be clear and concise. BS wastes our time.

Readers make confidential notes that are added to your file and recommend interview or no interview. There may be two additional, briefer reviews of your materials and the first reader's notes before you are invited to interview. The entire adcom (or a group of 8-10 members of the adcom) will have the opportunity to look over your application before deciding where you rank among interviewed applicants but each file gets a 3 minute "once over" with most of the emphasis being placed on the reader's notes and comments written by the interviewers. There is a final chance to review your application before you are offered admission but at that point most of the attention goes to the ranks assigned by the adcom and the interviewer notes.

Exactly! they do read but only for X minutes! just to read a PS can take the longest..anyways no matter what we think or assume you guys will do whatever so go ahead and write ad nauseum..

Keep it below 500!