The law regarding Ms. P.G. and A.S.P. in New York

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 17, 2006

These are the facts about, can we practice with a MS or Pg as well as ASP in New York? This thread is to put to rest the questions we all have; if it is legal to practice with any of the said programs above ?. Notice that the law is not specific as to what programs are specifically needed . All that matters here in New York is that you have AT LEAST TWO YEARS OF A CERTIFIED PROGRAM .I do agree; that the best way to attain a lic. to practice is the -normal pathway of Advanced standing but there is hope for those of us who are not good test takers and pass Part 1 and 2 with at least an 80 or better. Some might dissagree but this is still the fact . I have given this law to my fiance who is a lawyer here in New York and has reviewed the legal wording and agrees that if we decide to do Ms. or Pg we have the right to petition a lic. to practice dentistry in the state. Also; I should state that the question of if we are limited to practice the specialty in which we have a cert. or diploma in is NOT DEFINED . So , that leads us to believe that you will be able to practice outside the boundries of your specialty although, I believe it is frowned apon here in the state of New York. I know that this type of law also applys to the state of Florida where my best friend is getting ready to graduate the Pros. Masters Programm and he as well is eligible to practice after he petitions the state and there is a 95% acceptance rate of Lic. given to doctors who are from international programs who graduate Masters and P.g. programs as stated above. I hope this is helpful to you all.- Bill

Frequently Asked Questions

-What are the recent changes in the law regarding completion of a dental residency program?

Chapters 76 and 726 of the Laws of 2004 state that beginning January 1, 2007, applicants for initial dental licensure in New York State must successfully complete a dental residency program accredited by a national accrediting body acceptable to the New York State Education Department (NYSED).

-What national accrediting bodies are acceptable to the department?

At the moment, the only accrediting body approved by the NYSED is the American Dental Associations (ADA) Commission on Dental Accreditation (CDA).

-Is this option currently available to applicants?

Yes. Effective May 22, 2003 through December 31, 2006, the successful completion of an approved residency program of at least one years duration, certified by the residency program director, may be substituted for the current clinical licensing examination, Northeast Regional Board (NERB). Individuals interested in using this pathway to licensure should confirm with their residency program director that the residency program is participating in this route to licensure.

-Beginning January 1, 2007, dental students will be required to complete a residency as a prerequisite for initial licensure in New York State. The NERB option will no longer be available after this date.

-Can the residency program be used to satisfy the educational requirements for foreign trained dentists?

No. The requirement that foreign trained dentists complete at least two additional years of education in an ADA accredited degree-granting program must still be met, as well as all other education and examination requirements. The changes in the law refer to the experience requirement, not the education requirement.

-What residency programs qualify?

Clinical dental residency programs in general dentistry or the following dental specialties:

-endodontics
-oral and maxillofacial surgery
-orthodontics and dentofacial orthopedics
-pediatric dentistry
-periodontics
-prosthodontics
-another specialty of dentistry, as determined by the Department, for which at least 50% of the CDA accredited residency program consists of clinical training in general dentistry or one of the above-referenced specialty residency programs

-Does the residency program need to be in New York State?

No. Residency programs do not have to be completed in New York State, but to qualify the residency program must be approved by a national accrediting body accepted by the Department for the purpose of accreditation of dental residency programs and must be in one of the areas listed above.

-Do I need a limited permit to participate in a residency program in New York State?

Yes. Individuals participating in New York State residency programs must obtain a limited permit to practice while in the residency program. The only exception is if the residency program is part of a New York State dental schools registered program. Please check with the dental school before proceeding, as unlawful practice will jeopardize the ability of an individual to be licensed in New York State.

-What will the residency program director be required to provide to NYSED on behalf of an applicant for licensure in New York State?

The residency program director will be required to submit an attestation (Form 4B) that the applicant has successfully completed (meaning a certificate has been obtained) the residency program and in his or her opinion the applicant is competent to practice dentistry as defined by NYSED, and

The residency program director and/or the attending dentist(s), who supervised the dental procedures the applicant performed, will be required to submit attestations:

that during a general practice residency or advanced education in general dentistry residency program the applicant completed independently, and adhering to generally accepted standards for dentistry:
two full crowns,
two endodontically treated teeth,
four restorations (two anterior, two posterior), and
one periodontal case (Case Type I); or
that the applicant has successfully completed:
a specialty residency program specified in §61.18(b)(2); or
a specialty residency program that meets the criteria set forth in the above referenced section as determined by the department.

-Are any applicants exempt from the residency requirement?

Yes. Individuals, such as those who are awaiting citizenship, who have completed all the educational requirements and have submitted a complete application and fee prior to January 1, 2007, may still utilize the NERB examination pathway to obtain licensure.

-Where can I find more information?

The forms to apply for dental licensure using this pathway are available here. For additional information, you may contact the State Board for Dentistry by phone at 518-474-3817, ext. 550, or by e-mail at [email protected].

Srishti · Jan 17, 2006

Hoping against hope I called the New York state dental board with the same question that since I have a MS in Orthodontics from a US dental school, and non UD dental degree, techincally I should be able to get a license in NY according to the wording of the law on the website, as you pointed out. The licensing coordinator said that an advanced standing program was essential along with a masters or any other additional training and a masters degree could not substitute for DDS/DMD from a US school.
What do you think, should I persuethis, I hope you are right about all this, save me from so much heartache!

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 17, 2006

Srishti said:
Hoping against hope I called the New York state dental board with the same question that since I have a MS in Orthodontics from a US dental school, and non UD dental degree, techincally I should be able to get a license in NY according to the wording of the law on the website, as you pointed out. The licensing coordinator said that an advanced standing program was essential along with a masters or any other additional training and a masters degree could not substitute for DDS/DMD from a US school.
What do you think, should I persuethis, I hope you are right about all this, save me from so much heartache!

This is how I see it:

1st: the letter of the law governs the state. It is not predicated on what is "essential" or not. It is what the law says that is the law. I spoke to Dr. Lunds office who is the head man in charge of dentistry in New York and they said basically the same thing and trying to push me in a direction that they deem appropriate. The thing is I am an American and I know my rights. I would speculate that they say these things to us to keep "order" and not rock the boat. However, you cannot enforce a law strictly because they think it is "essential."

2nd: I mentioned that my best friend in Florida is in the same predicament as you. The Florida State law says basically the same thing here in New York. The only difference is, that, I know for a fact that there have been similar cases that have been adjudicated in the favor of the same type of legal wording and the applicants with a Masters degree and a FT Diploma or DDS and are now practicing as we speak. But, that is Florida. So what we need to research is have there been any cases here in New York that reflect Florida? and if so, well Then the age old saying applies to the law "if one person is legally allowed to do it then you have the same right to do it as well" what is legal for one is legal for all just as what is illegal for one is illegal for all.

3rd: Notice how the law states that you need a letter or form filled out by the director of the residency. I understand as an example, that if you do a 3yr."residency" in Pros. at NYU or whatever program you do and it is, which it is, legally accredited by the ADA, as defined by the state law; You have met the legal requirement to gain a lic. to practice.

4th: The problem here is that we are as a body under represented in America and the powers to be find it in their best interest to keep us "contained" to meet their governing statistics nice and neat. This, I feel is a crock of SH-T.

5th: We are not as physicians who are in a life or death clinical practice. So, why are they so difficult with us. People like yourself, are more qualified to but an invisaline TX. on a patient then a GP, who took a course, so why do you need to go back to School?, is because of the money, I would say that, and to make sure that there is not a "saturation issue" that in essence takes money out of other dentist pockets and is what truely motivates and governs these people who control dentistry in the states. If this is the case then why do they let us in, in the first place. Not to mention they need us.

6th: So, now that you are well educated better then most GPs, they want you to go back to Advanced Standing and you will run the risk of the bureaucracy of the university and they will tell you that even though you passed the NBDE PART 1 and 2 and have met the "standard of educational requirements" that govern the American students to go forward in their dental education, you are in fact not the same and have to do Bioquem and physio over simply because it is the format of their program. That is a crock of SH-T in my book as well.
You do not see this in medicine and they are in a life and death business not like us. It is crazy. dont mean to vent but I would say get a lawyer who will Defend your case and sumitt it to the state . It cost my friend under $5000 but at this rate it is worth having to do it then go backwards. Let me know what you think.- Bill

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 17, 2006

The New York law says:

If you completed a program of dental education in an unregistered and unaccredited foreign dental school, you must complete not less than two academic years of study satisfactory to the Department in a registered or accredited dental school program including such subjects as may be necessary for certification by such registered or accredited school that you have achieved the level of knowledge and clinical proficiency expected of a graduate of the school.

now read this:

-Can the residency program be used to satisfy the educational requirements for foreign trained dentists?

No. The requirement that foreign trained dentists complete at least two additional years of education in an ADA accredited degree-granting program must still be met, as well as all other education and examination requirements. The changes in the law refer to the experience requirement, not the education requirement.

-What residency programs qualify?

Clinical dental residency programs in general dentistry or the following dental specialties:
-endodontics
-oral and maxillofacial surgery
-orthodontics and dentofacial orthopedics
-pediatric dentistry
-periodontics
-prosthodontics example used
-another specialty of dentistry, as determined by the Department, for which at least 50% of the CDA accredited residency program consists of clinical training in general dentistry or one of the above-referenced specialty residency programs

now apply it to this:

Jonathan and Maxine Ferencz
Advanced Education Program in Prosthodontics at NYU

remember: The three-year program fulfills the educational requirements of the Council on Dental Education of the American Dental Association and the American Board of Prosthodontics. as stated by NYU

and the state says:

-Can the residency program be used to satisfy the educational requirements for foreign trained dentists?

No. The requirement that foreign trained dentists complete at least two additional years of education in an ADA accredited degree-granting program must still be met, as well as all other education and examination requirements. The changes in the law refer to the experience requirement, not the education requirement . sounds interesting doesn't it?

General Description of the Pros. Program at NYU (as stated legally by NYU)

The goals of the program are to provide foundation knowledge and diverse experiences in all aspects of prosthetic dentistry to exceptional applicants who are interested in the Jonathan and Maxine Ferencz Advanced Education Program in Prosthodontics. The three-year program fulfills the educational requirements of the Council on Dental Education of the American Dental Association and the American Board of Prosthodontics. The program comprises formal instruction in biomedical sciences and clinical and didactic seminars. The program prepares residents for a career in clinical practice, teaching, and/or research. Residents, on completion of the program, will be proficient in prosthodontics, restorative aspects of implant dentistry, occlusion, and dental materials. During the entire training, interaction with other specialties is emphasized through clinic practice and interdisciplinary seminars.

.
Accreditation Status

The program is accredited by the Commission on Dental Accreditation of the American Dental Association and fulfills all requirements for board eligibility as stated by the American Board of Prosthodontists.

Length of the Program

The program commences on the first Tuesday after Labor Day in September and ends on August 31 of the third academic calendar year.

mabey its me but I do not see where there is a problem with practicing after my 8 combined years of academic and clinical experience when all is said and done.

let me know your thoughts.

Drtrigeminal · Jan 17, 2006

I Agree, it amazes me that after completing a recognized ADA accredited specialty they want you to go back a take 2 years of general dental training. It is nice to know that more states are accepting MS degrees like Minnesota, Arizona, etc. Have a look at the Alberta 'Health professions Act' in Canada, it is similar to NY but even more relaxed in its wording but do you think they will ever license with an accredited masters degree, the ANSWER IS NO!!!! ridiculous.

BlueToothHunter · Jan 18, 2006

Bill, no matter how many ways you slice this apple (no pun intended), the change in the NYS dental board's requirement for residency in lieu of NERB does not give foreign dentists an easy way out. This rule only applies to US/Canadian dental graduates who did not take NERB. Your best bet is to move to Virginia where you are allowed to take state-only SRTA exam and practice in Virginia only if you have completed one of the dental specialties program in the US. Otherwise, PGY-1 (a.k.a. 1 year residency law) is only good for those graduating from a regular DDS or advanced standing programs. I think the purpose of the change was to give the graduating seniors at the dental schools a chance to avoid sitting a clinical exam. That law wasn't passed to give the foreign dentists a back door entry, unfortunately... Sorry mate.

Addendum:

http://www.ada.org/prof/prac/licensure/faq.pdf

Check out the above link. It will lead you to the FAQ of international dentist program/licensure.

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 18, 2006

BlueToothHunter

Listen, I am the last person to advocate or choose the easy way out or BACKDOOR. I do appreciate your consult. Understand, however misunderstood you are as to the over tone of this thread; I am an advocate of what is going on in Florida as well as other states and that it should apply to New York because the legal wording in both state laws is relatively the same. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RESIDENCY CHANGE. Take my friend for instance, after 3 years of a Masters Pros. Program and 4 years of FTD, DDS, is allowed to practice. We are not in brain surgery. I don't know about you, but, I will be more then prepared after a 3 year Masters and a 1 year Residency to practice Dentistry. NOTICE HOW I SAID 1 YR. RESIDENCY, I, AM IN FULL SUPPORT OF DOING THIS. I am not trying to avoid anything. I welcome the added education and clinical experience and I would be lying if I said I did not need it. But, I still can't ponder why a person like Srishti who has a Masters in Ortho, which by the way, is one of the most respected specialties when it comes to dental academics and clinicals is not allowed to go on to practice. Of all people you should know this BlueToothHunter

This thread is about fair options, NOT ABOUT SCAPEGOATS. We all deserve the right to have options that will more then prepare us both academically and clinically to practice dentistry in America. Besides, I did not write the laws. If they did not want us to think about this topic, the law should say: THE ONLY WAY A F. T. D. CAN PRACTICE IN NEW YORK IS BY DOING AN ADVANCED STANDING PROGRAM. This is the issue, that you cannot tell me that if I do a 3 yr. masters or PG. program and become a member of the American Academy of Pros. plus 1 yr. residency, that I am not qualified to practice Dentistry.

BlueToothHunter As a BDS-4yrs India, DDS -3-4yrs USA, MS 1-2 yrs.USA and a residency in an AGED/ORTHO 1-2yrs. program ,maybe you are bias because you went the long route and mind you, I respect your accomplishments. They are VERY impressive!

The thing is, I am 1 (the only dental grad). of 15 doctors in my family for this you have to forgive my "conditioned" train of thought and not to mention the influence that I receive when I, for example, converse with my mother who is an American and a quadruple board cert. MD in Neonatal, Pediatric-Cardiology (Miami Children's Hospital) and is a FTD herself, also with an American MBA, that, when I am done with a masters level education and a 1 yr. residency in pros. or GP in a hospital, that because of a "feeling" of the board or state department, that I am still not qualified and have to do an Advanced Standing 3 yr. program, that after passing part 1 and part 2 before I even started any of this, I have to take Bioquem and Physio over. She, as well as my Stepfather, another board cert. Pediatrician and an American FTD, quite frankly think this is mad. I agree with them. Again I am prepared to do the A. S. P., simply because I except that because of my decision to go to the medical school abroad where 3 generations of my family went, I will do what I have to do to practice. But, I refuse to be blind to my legal options that I have to go about achieving this. I studied in the Dominican Republic in Spanish and I did not speak Spanish when I got there and I did two years of medicine and three years of dentistry and I am a 4th generation white American. So you see taking the easy route is virtually non existent for me based on the information you now have.

Mind you, who said anything about:

Bill, no matter how many ways you slice this apple (no pun intended), the change in the NYS dental board's requirement for residency in lieu of NERB does not give foreign dentists an easy way out. This rule only applies to US/Canadian dental graduates who did not take NERB. Your best bet is to move to Virginia where you are allowed to take state-only SRTA exam and practice in Virginia only if you have completed one of the dental specialties program in the US. Otherwise, PGY-1 (a.k.a. 1 year residency law) is only good for those graduating from a regular DDS or advanced standing programs. I think the purpose of the change was to give the graduating seniors at the dental schools a chance to avoid sitting a clinical exam. That law wasn't passed to give the foreign dentists a back door entry, unfortunately... Sorry mate. DON'T BE SORRY FOR ME

Again the point is that: this is not a BACKDOOR by any sound educated decision.

1) FTD 4 yrs
2) NBDE 1
3) NBDE 2
4) Masters in Specialty or Advanced Standing or Postgraduate programs = 3yrs
5) residency 1yr.
6) state exam or regional exam passed

All this is sufficient to practice dentistry, not brain surgery, in America.
When in fact, it is enough for other states. They are excepting this in multiple states and it has worked for those FTDs in the past. The point is this should be the general concessus nationally. You shouldn't be surprised to know that we FTDs know a lot more then they think and don't always have to revert to the ADA. I have spent the better part of 3 yrs. reading all the ins and outs of the laws and the "Ada" info. I should hope that you could respect even this. I am 34 yrs. old and have enough education to put this all together. That was not a defense statement, but, a statement just to educate you in who I am.

Point of fact. The Ada is a private organization they only serve the purpose to the states as credentials and no more. Maybe, you should read there own news article, when back in Oct. 05 when the state of California said "who are you guys? You have no right or council to tell the state what it thinks or how it should run Dentistry here." I do respect the Ada and all they do for us and do not want to bite the hand that feeds me, but I do not hang on every word they say . Especially when it comes to the state laws. So, my research centers around the State Department more so the the ADA.ORG.

Your rebuttal is welcome and mind you if I sound frustrated it is because I get annoyed with people who label others as "taking the easy way out " as opposed to the Fair way. Which I think I have Proven My case.

mkot · Jan 18, 2006

hi fixen, i read this thread and found it very informative. so from what u say, if i have joined a residency program before 12/31/2006 , i can petition for license in ny state after i finish the residency?
can i plz have ur email id, so that i can get back to u for more info?
mkot

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 18, 2006

Please let me be perfectly clear.

This thread only applies to the following:

1) you must have a Foreign education that equates to a DDS (my school is a DDS
Program. I do not know what the BDS or MDS translates to, but in my book it is the same.)- 4 or more yrs.

2) you must have part one passed

3) you must have part two passed

4) you must have ALREADY COMPLETED a 2-3 yr. Masters/Postgraduate specialty
by the year 2006 (not biomaterials or oral biology MSs) THIS IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR
QUESTION WHICH WOULD BE NO.

5) you must have the written consent and proper forms filled out by the dean or whoever
They (the state department) wants that says you meet the requirements. As well as the
Proper documentation.

6) You must take whatever state or regional exam that gives you the lic. to practice.
or in the case of New York next year do the mandatory residency 1 yr. I Support this 100%

7) Providing the state allows you to take the exam or the residency, get a lawyer and plead your case. This is how one state, and, I only have knowledge on one state, does it.

8) Now, I know for a fact that if you do a Master PG. 3yr program in another state and have practiced there at least a year or so you can apply for a lic here in New York.

I do NOT support CUTTING corners. I just agree with those states that allow you to take this 5th pathway. I talk about New York because I am sure that this is how it all came to be in Florida. That someone was as ticked off like myself, that, if they decide to go to a Postgraduate or Masters program (3yrs). and do a 1yr residency It would be sufficient enough to be eligible to practice. Simply, because someone challenged the loose wording of the law. Which if it comes down to it, I would like to know that I have the same option.

I WILL AGAIN SAY THAT THE BEST WAY TO PRACTICE IN THE STATE IS DO THE ADVANCES STANDING PROGRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, I might not have that luxury to be perfectly honest. Only myself and my fellow peers, professors, instructors and patients know who good of a Dentist I am. But, the reality is, I am no longer in school. Unfortunately, I have a learning disability (that I do not want pity for because, I got myself this far, Praise God) but, the truth is, I am a bad test taker and The fact that I took the exam 3 times and the third time finally passed and went up 25 points in the basic sciences is great. Reality is, I can't compete on paper with a 90 or better. But, Get me in a clinic and I am the equivalent of a 98 on paper. So now you all see the truth behind my madness.

I plan to do the following. To share my experience so we can all relate.

In Feb I will take Dental Anatomy over, and when I get a 95 or better I will have an 85 for part 1
And I will apply to Stonybrook ASP by March 31. Remember, I am and have been a New Yorker My whole life and I am an American. So, I have a slim shot there. I will also pull some strings and try to see if there is a space available at NYU PROS. PG. 3yr program. I will also Apply to the 1yr. Masters Biomaterial program to play it safe. Also I will take part 2 . Then I will leave it up to God.

Worst case scenario is that by 2007 I will have part 1 part 2 possible a Masters in biomaterials and a 95% chance of getting into NYU or Stonybrook Advanced Standing Programs.

The moral is you have to play all the cards your dealt and be aggressive and never stop!! Just get in. Because, once your in, your on a whole other playing field with a whole other set of options.

That is the best I can do. For me and my work history as a DA and my amazing career in dental school and I don't want to boast but on my CV I look like a Dental all-star, is all a bonus and nothing more.

Not to mention I am getting married in July and my future wife is a Med Mal Practice Lawyer who is amazing and has supported me through all this and I do not plan on uprooting her or Leaving her. I must find a way and I will, even if it means going to court providing I get into a 3 yr. PG. residency and when I fulfill the requisites; that, the Law no matter how loose it is, will provide me away to practice Dentistry which is all I know how to do and I love it. All I know is I have nowhere else to go except NYU or Stonybrook.

mkot · Jan 18, 2006

FIXENSMILES01 said:
Please let me be perfectly clear.

This thread only applies to the following:

1) you must have a Foreign education that equates to a DDS (my school is a DDS
Program. I do not know what the BDS or MDS translates to, but in my book it is the same.)- 4 or more yrs.

2) you must have part one passed

3) you must have part two passed

4) you must have ALREADY COMPLETED a 2-3 yr. Masters/Postgraduate specialty
by the year 2006 (not biomaterials or oral biology MSs) THIS IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR
QUESTION WHICH WOULD BE NO.

5) you must have the written consent and proper forms filled out by the dean or whoever
They (the state department) wants that says you meet the requirements. As well as the
Proper documentation.

6) You must take whatever state or regional exam that gives you the lic. to practice.
or in the case of New York next year do the mandatory residency 1 yr. I Support this 100%

7) Providing the state allows you to take the exam or the residency, get a lawyer and plead your case. This is how one state, and, I only have knowledge on one state, does it.

8) Now, I know for a fact that if you do a Master PG. 3yr program in another state and have practiced there at least a year or so you can apply for a lic here in New York.

I do NOT support CUTTING corners. I just agree with those states that allow you to take this 5th pathway. I talk about New York because I am sure that this is how it all came to be in Florida. That someone was as ticked off like myself, that, if they decide to go to a Postgraduate or Masters program (3yrs). and do a 1yr residency It would be sufficient enough to be eligible to practice. Simply, because someone challenged the loose wording of the law. Which if it comes down to it, I would like to know that I have the same option.

I WILL AGAIN SAY THAT THE BEST WAY TO PRACTICE IN THE STATE IS DO THE ADVANCES STANDING PROGRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, I might not have that luxury to be perfectly honest. Only myself and my fellow peers, professors, instructors and patients know who good of a Dentist I am. But, the reality is, I am no longer in school. Unfortunately, I have a learning disability (that I do not want pity for because, I got myself this far, Praise God) but, the truth is, I am a bad test taker and The fact that I took the exam 3 times and the third time finally passed and went up 25 points in the basic sciences is great. Reality is, I can't compete on paper with a 90 or better. But, Get me in a clinic and I am the equivalent of a 98 on paper. So now you all see the truth behind my madness.

I plan to do the following. To share my experience so we can all relate.

In Feb I will take Dental Anatomy over, and when I get a 95 or better I will have an 85 for part 1
And I will apply to Stonybrook ASP by March 31. Remember, I am and have been a New Yorker My whole life and I am an American. So, I have a slim shot there. I will also pull some strings and try to see if there is a space available at NYU PROS. PG. 3yr program. I will also Apply to the 1yr. Masters Biomaterial program to play it safe. Also I will take part 2 . Then I will leave it up to God.

Worst case scenario is that by 2007 I will have part 1 part 2 possible a Masters in biomaterials and a 95% chance of getting into NYU or Stonybrook Advanced Standing Programs.

The moral is you have to play all the cards your dealt and be aggressive and never stop!! Just get in. Because, once your in, your on a whole other playing field with a whole other set of options.

That is the best I can do. For me and my work history as a DA and my amazing career in dental school and I don't want to boast but on my CV I look like a Dental all-star, is all a bonus and nothing more.

Not to mention I am getting married in July and my future wife is a Med Mal Practice Lawyer who is amazing and has supported me through all this and I do not plan on uprooting her or Leaving her. I must find a way and I will, even if it means going to court providing I get into a 3 yr. PG. residency and when I fulfill the requisites; that, the Law no matter how loose it is, will provide me away to practice Dentistry which is all I know how to do and I love it. All I know is I have nowhere else to go except NYU or Stonybrook.

thanks a lot fixen,for taking time out and writing such a detalied reply.
well, BDS, is equivalent to DDS. now i knwo that i dont fall into this particular pathway. seems like dentistry for u is a passion more than a profession. its the same with me. i am sure u must be a gr8 clinician. i share this kinda passion. my dad is one of the senior most maxillofacilal surgeon in India and i developed a liking for dentistry in preschool yrs. i assissted my first surgery at the age of 12yrs. maybe this will give u an idea about my love for dentistry.
i started residency in osmf in India but my boss was a real dingus, and he never taught us anything, and the department was also very stressful, so much so that, i collapsed in the department with seizures, and i decided to let go of the residency and settle in the USA, osmf was the only thing i ever wanted to do
well, u are an American citizen, so why do u have to do ASP? dint u do ur schooling from USA?
lastly, Congratulation , in advance , for ur marriage, wish u and ur wife-to-be have a gr8 life [ i got married last year and its a beautiful feeling ]
thanks once again
mkot

mkot · Jan 18, 2006

FIXENSMILES01 said:
Please let me be perfectly clear.

This thread only applies to the following:

1) you must have a Foreign education that equates to a DDS (my school is a DDS
Program. I do not know what the BDS or MDS translates to, but in my book it is the same.)- 4 or more yrs.

2) you must have part one passed

3) you must have part two passed

4) you must have ALREADY COMPLETED a 2-3 yr. Masters/Postgraduate specialty
by the year 2006 (not biomaterials or oral biology MSs) THIS IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR
QUESTION WHICH WOULD BE NO.

5) you must have the written consent and proper forms filled out by the dean or whoever
They (the state department) wants that says you meet the requirements. As well as the
Proper documentation.

6) You must take whatever state or regional exam that gives you the lic. to practice.
or in the case of New York next year do the mandatory residency 1 yr. I Support this 100%

7) Providing the state allows you to take the exam or the residency, get a lawyer and plead your case. This is how one state, and, I only have knowledge on one state, does it.

8) Now, I know for a fact that if you do a Master PG. 3yr program in another state and have practiced there at least a year or so you can apply for a lic here in New York.

I do NOT support CUTTING corners. I just agree with those states that allow you to take this 5th pathway. I talk about New York because I am sure that this is how it all came to be in Florida. That someone was as ticked off like myself, that, if they decide to go to a Postgraduate or Masters program (3yrs). and do a 1yr residency It would be sufficient enough to be eligible to practice. Simply, because someone challenged the loose wording of the law. Which if it comes down to it, I would like to know that I have the same option.

I WILL AGAIN SAY THAT THE BEST WAY TO PRACTICE IN THE STATE IS DO THE ADVANCES STANDING PROGRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, I might not have that luxury to be perfectly honest. Only myself and my fellow peers, professors, instructors and patients know who good of a Dentist I am. But, the reality is, I am no longer in school. Unfortunately, I have a learning disability (that I do not want pity for because, I got myself this far, Praise God) but, the truth is, I am a bad test taker and The fact that I took the exam 3 times and the third time finally passed and went up 25 points in the basic sciences is great. Reality is, I can't compete on paper with a 90 or better. But, Get me in a clinic and I am the equivalent of a 98 on paper. So now you all see the truth behind my madness.

I plan to do the following. To share my experience so we can all relate.

In Feb I will take Dental Anatomy over, and when I get a 95 or better I will have an 85 for part 1
And I will apply to Stonybrook ASP by March 31. Remember, I am and have been a New Yorker My whole life and I am an American. So, I have a slim shot there. I will also pull some strings and try to see if there is a space available at NYU PROS. PG. 3yr program. I will also Apply to the 1yr. Masters Biomaterial program to play it safe. Also I will take part 2 . Then I will leave it up to God.

Worst case scenario is that by 2007 I will have part 1 part 2 possible a Masters in biomaterials and a 95% chance of getting into NYU or Stonybrook Advanced Standing Programs.

The moral is you have to play all the cards your dealt and be aggressive and never stop!! Just get in. Because, once your in, your on a whole other playing field with a whole other set of options.

That is the best I can do. For me and my work history as a DA and my amazing career in dental school and I don't want to boast but on my CV I look like a Dental all-star, is all a bonus and nothing more.

Not to mention I am getting married in July and my future wife is a Med Mal Practice Lawyer who is amazing and has supported me through all this and I do not plan on uprooting her or Leaving her. I must find a way and I will, even if it means going to court providing I get into a 3 yr. PG. residency and when I fulfill the requisites; that, the Law no matter how loose it is, will provide me away to practice Dentistry which is all I know how to do and I love it. All I know is I have nowhere else to go except NYU or Stonybrook.

thanks a lot fixen,for taking time out and writing such a detalied reply.
well, BDS, is equivalent to DDS. now i knwo that i dont fall into this particular pathway. seems like dentistry for u is a passion more than a profession. its the same with me. i am sure u must be a gr8 clinician. i share this kinda passion. my dad is one of the senior most maxillofacilal surgeon in India and i developed a liking for dentistry in preschool yrs. i assissted my first surgery at the age of 12yrs. maybe this will give u an idea about my love for dentistry.
i started residency in osmf in India but my boss was a real dingus, and he never taught us anything, and the department was also very stressful, so much so that, i collapsed in the department with seizures, and i decided to let go of the residency and settle in the USA, osmf was the only thing i ever wanted to do
well, u are an American citizen, so why do u have to do ASP? dint u do ur schooling from USA?
lastly, Congratulation , in advance , for ur marriage, wish u and ur wife-to-be have a gr8 life [ i got married last year and its a beautiful feeling ]
thanks once again
mkot

FIXENSMILES01 · Jan 18, 2006

Yes, we have a lot in common and we both have Medicine in our blood not to mention the passion to help others with our God given talents. Thank you for the congrats!! and congrats to you on your 1st year of being married that is great God bless you and your wife and your future family.

wow that is very impressive to have the influence from your father and to assist him you got bit real early by the surgery bug. I am sure you will be just as equally accomplished as your dad. My hat is off to you and I wish you all the best.

It is a long story why I studied abroad; to long to write. Except for the fact that my family has vested intrest over 30 years in that medical school. So, when the time came in my life that I had to go there I went, believe me I am a better person for it.

mkot · Jan 19, 2006

FIXENSMILES01 said:
Yes, we have a lot in common and we both have Medicine in our blood not to mention the passion to help others with our God given talents. Thank you for the congrats!! and congrats to you on your 1st year of being married that is great God bless you and your wife and your future family.

wow that is very impressive to have the influence from your father and to assist him you got bit real early by the surgery bug. I am sure you will be just as equally accomplished as your dad. My hat is off to you and I wish you all the best.

It is a long story why I studied abroad; to long to write. Except for the fact that my family has vested intrest over 30 years in that medical school. So, when the time came in my life that I had to go there I went, believe me I am a better person for it.

hi buddy,thanks a lot for all the wishes, and plz no hats off for me, i still have a logn way to go. but i really hope that i can put my skills to the best use for the human race.

let me mention that, not only my dad but my mom and wife r doctors too [ former a gynecologist and latter a physical therapist ]. so we have a lot a heritage in our blood, and matbe that s the reason why we r so much into what we do.

and, ya, i really appreciate ur perseverence, coz it takes a lot of guts to stick to what u r doing, inspite of , the so called oh-so-low scores. people like u r beyond tests and given a chance they make legends.
good luck friend in whatever u do, and yes, praying helps a lot, always trust in God.
mkot

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