General chem to organic

dapmp91 · Mar 9, 2006

hi guyz, i;m currently in general chem(first semester) i;m kickin some serious ass in that class guys, i wanted to know what you should take after general chem (the sequence), should i jump right into organic chem, i;m not sure if i want to because i heard some horror stories about that class, also the physics is kind of weird, should i take calculus based physics or non calculus based physics class, which is on the MCAT, i heard that either class is fine because you can get to the right answer by any means (calculus or trig based) your advice would be helpful guys,,your fellow newbie :idea:

NapeSpikes · Mar 9, 2006

You'll have to take Orgo anyway, and no other coursework would really help, so there's no harm in taking it right after gen chem. As for physics, either one.

physicsnerd42 · Mar 9, 2006

I would take both if you can. But if you have to choose to take one first, I guess I would do organic. I actually loved organic chem because I had a great prof and the subject matter was interesting (then again, I'm a chem minor). Speaking as a physics major, definitely do calculus-based physics if you have the math background and if the professor is good. You, quite honestly, cannot understand intro physics without calculus despite what anyone might say. Newton invented calculus just so that he could describe the physics he was seeing. You might be able to get many answers to physics problems using just trig and algebra, but many of the concepts make a lot more sense if the professor can use calculus when teaching them (for instance, the time-derivative and integral relationships between position, velocity, and acceleration; Gauss' law; etc.).

DrBowtie · Mar 9, 2006

physicsnerd42 said:
I would take both if you can. But if you have to choose to take one first, I guess I would do organic. I actually loved organic chem because I had a great prof and the subject matter was interesting (then again, I'm a chem minor). Speaking as a physics major, definitely do calculus-based physics if you have the math background and if the professor is good. You, quite honestly, cannot understand intro physics without calculus despite what anyone might say. Newton invented calculus just so that he could describe the physics he was seeing. You might be able to get many answers to physics problems using just trig and algebra, but many of the concepts make a lot more sense if the professor can use calculus when teaching them (for instance, the time-derivative and integral relationships between position, velocity, and acceleration; Gauss' law; etc.).

From one physics nerd to another 👍

stylerprodigy · Mar 9, 2006

For organic chemistry 1 and 2 it depends on the person. Before taking organic 1 and 2, I've also heard horror stories. However, I really enjoy it when my classmates are dreading it. There are tons of information in that sequence that you must know. For example, in organic 2 you must know all of the reactions and exceptions from organic 1. If I could make an analogy I would say that organic chemistry is like solving a crime. Or maybe like finding the right diagnosis for a patient. Essentially, you must know everything and then use what you know to solve the problem. You do a lot of this when you are trying to sythesize an organic compound. Maybe this is why organic is one of the most important classes that admissions comittee look for (or so they say), the ability to use what you know and apply. Also when taking the class you would want a good professor who is both challenging and a great teacher because I heard you use organic chemistry in biochemistry so you don't want to be stuck in biochemistry not knowing what to do.

Anyone else agree or disagree?

Zoom-Zoom · Mar 9, 2006

BrettBatchelor said:
From one physics nerd to another 👍

I agree that calc takes physics to a whole different level, but I had two years of algebra/trig-based physics in high school and definitely think you can get a lot out of physics that way too.

nmnrraven · Mar 9, 2006

Take Ochem right after general chemistry. Take the calculus based physics whenever you can. This is the standard path, i believe. Taking the harder classes shows Medical School that you are pushing yourself more. I think it works more to your advantage to get a slightly lower GPA taking all hard classes then a high GPA taking all easy ones. Just my humble opinion. 😎

kovalchuk · Mar 9, 2006

Hated general, loving organic (thus far). I hope the reverse isn't true for you.

MattD · Mar 10, 2006

Zoom-Zoom said:
I agree that calc takes physics to a whole different level, but I had two years of algebra/trig-based physics in high school and definitely think you can get a lot out of physics that way too.

Gotta disagree.. can you get the right answers to problems using trig/algebra? sure! Can you UNDERSTAND the physical relationships involved without calculus? Absolutely not. And if you're less interested in learning and more interested in getting by with less effort? Well, you can memorize 50+ trig/algebra based equations and the specific situations for using each one, or you can memorize 15-20 calculus based equations and use your conceptual understanding to apply them all over the place. I'm sorry, I just think that anyone who goes the algebra based physics route is shortchanging themself seriously.

DoctorPardi · Mar 10, 2006

I am planning on taking trig based physics in fall and currently I am taking pre-cal trig. I do pretty good in math, and would like to make A's in physics obviously, but I don't know if taking calc is even an option for me, because I am doing research all summer.

Is it just extremely helpful? Or is it kind of a "well it wouldn't hurt" situation? The reason I am asking is, I went to my pre-med advisor and discussed squeezing calculas into my schedule somewhere and he said I didn't need it and trig based physics was fine.

DrBowtie · Mar 10, 2006

To talk about instantaneous anything without the mention of a limit is crazy. If you know how to do a simple limit, derivative and integral, Physics would be soooo much more interesting. I guarantee it.

Mr. Tee · Mar 10, 2006

To be blunt, you're going to hear orgo horror stories from people who struggled in that class. You don't know if you're going to struggle or not until you take it...make sense? 😛

Non-calc-based physics will be on the MCAT. However some med school programs (ex. HMS HST) want you to take the calc-based one.

Dave_D · Mar 10, 2006

I'm going to chime in and agree that calc based physics is better. Once you learn the basic concepts of calc(which arn't actually that difficult to understand) physics makes so much more sense.(Really knowing about limits, how derivitives are really rates of change, and how integrals let you accumulate stuff is about as much of the concepts of calc you needed to know.)

omgwtfbbq? · Mar 10, 2006

Orgo is a whole other ballpark when compared to gen chem. you could take orgo before gen chem, i think, because its a completely completely different set of skills. So go ahead and take orgo, and try to get students opinions on which teacher to take. most of the people who hate it just had a bad teacher. i LOVED orgo, but i'm good at things like proofs and spatial reltaionships and that comes up a lot in orgo. As for physics, it depends on what your math level is. i took trig based physics and calculus math classes, and ESPECIALLY physics labs were easier to understand using calculus, just so much more straightforward. but i used the trig based calc stuff for the mcat.

thesauce · Mar 10, 2006

I think your decision about whether to take calc- or trig-based physics should depend on how good the professors teaching them are.

Every calc-based physics teacher in my school sucked and the trig-based ones were pretty good. Consequently, I learned absolutely nothing from calc-based physics. Everything I needed to know for the MCAT I got in my engineering classes.

You can take O-chem whenever you want. There is little overlap between O-chem and Gen-Chem. O-chem isn't hard, but you'll have to put some time into it.

GoogSC · Mar 18, 2006

nmnrraven said:
Take Ochem right after general chemistry. Take the calculus based physics whenever you can. This is the standard path, i believe. Taking the harder classes shows Medical School that you are pushing yourself more. I think it works more to your advantage to get a slightly lower GPA taking all hard classes then a high GPA taking all easy ones. Just my humble opinion. 😎

I agree. At my former school, it was preferable for science students to take "Biochemistry" rather than "Intro to Biochemistry" (the survey course) if they were considering further education. Sure, the former course was tougher, but you end up learning a lot more and retaining it all better.

Also, for people considering any biochem course after organic, it is beneficial to have a cell biology course under your belt. It helped me considerably.

Just my $o.o2 😉

Zoom-Zoom · Mar 18, 2006

GoogSC said:
I agree. At my former school, it was preferable for science students to take "Biochemistry" rather than "Intro to Biochemistry" (the survey course) if they were considering further education. Sure, the former course was tougher, but you end up learning a lot more and retaining it all better.

Also, for people considering any biochem course after organic, it is beneficial to have a cell biology course under your belt. It helped me considerably.

Just my $o.o2 😉

Do you mean to take cell bio before biochem? At my school Cell Bio is a 400-level and biochem is 300. Do you mean the intro cell bio (bio2) or advanced level?

See I'm glad my school has "Physics for the Life Sciences":
"Fundamental laws and principles of physics emphasizing areas related to life sciences; prerequisite for biological sciences, medicine, dentistry, and pharmacy." In other words, "Physics for the MCAT" :laugh:

. Keeps it simple.

General chem to organic

dapmp91

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NapeSpikes

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physicsnerd42

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DrBowtie

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stylerprodigy

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MattD

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omgwtfbbq?

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