Tell the governor, senators, congress about CA medical board! Voice your opnion!

Tell the governor, senators, congress about CA medical board! Voice your opnion!

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What the California medical board doing is completely out of their boundary. They are only a medical board, not the department of education. How can they approve or disapprove any medical schools? Do any of the board members have a degree in education?

Any educational institution can flourish or perish. How can the board guarantee that once one particular school is approved, it will withhold its standard forever? And if they want to approve any medical schools, shouldn't they also start to “regulate” those nursing schools? I don’t think that they have gone to Philippine and other countries to approve those nursing schools? There are many medical schools around the world, does the board plan to approve all the medical schools in the world? Those board members simply have too much time on their hand, and they are clearly abusing their power.

It is utterly ridiculous for them to say that “If you would like to become eligible to train in or become licensed in California, you will need to transfer into a California-recognized medical school and repeat ALL coursework you completed at St. Matthew's or any other medical school that the California Board doesn't recognize or has disapproved.”

Yes, every California wants to transfer to a California medical school. However, many well qualified Californian students are forced to go to schools at other states or outside the country, because the state does not have enough medical schools for all! We should not be judged by which school we go to, we should only be judged by the knowledge that we have. Our founding father has clearly stated “all men are created equal.” If a Californian medical student can pass all three steps of USMLE, why should s/he still be rejected by the board? Those board members obviously know that to be a good physician is a life long time of learning. Merely two years of medical basic science education certainly can’t provide enough information to be a good physician.

It is clear that many offshore students are not white, and many are immigrants. Could this be a case of racial discrimination? If all the offshore students are Caucasians, would the board still be so strict? However, the fact is that we are all citizens of USA. We can not take it any longer, we can no longer keep quiet. When we face the injustice, we have to stand up and fight against.

Therefore, we Californians should unite, and get our politicians involved. Governor Schwarzenegger himself is an immigrant, he came to this land of opportunity, and became who he is today. If he can do it, why should we residents of California be forced to live outside California in order to practice medicine?

Every Californian student should write emails or use other methods to contact the governor, senators, and their local congressmen. Each individual school can only do things under their own limitations. We have the voting power, and together, we should make California a land of opportunity, a place of equal treatment for all medical students!

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-445-4633
To send an Electronic Mail please visit:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov

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Contact Senator Feinstein
If you wish to phone or fax the Washington, D.C.
office:
Phone: (202) 224-3841
Fax: (202) 228-3954
TTY/TDD: (202) 224-2501
Write a letter
Senator Dianne Feinstein
United States Senate
331 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
E-Mail the Senator
http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html

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Senator Barbara Boxer
http://boxer.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
She has regional offices at six cities. click on the
link to get to your individual city address.

Washington D.C.
112 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
(202) 224-3553

http://boxer.senate.gov/contact/webform.cfm

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California Congressional Districts
http://www.congress.com/state/ca.html

it has addresses and email addresses.

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Every California students can send the following email to the governor. Feel free to add your own information.
Be sure to get your family members involved. They have nothing to lose, but to gain a whole lot more!
Ask them to send emails to the state officers, too. We should keep on requesting for a better change until we finally achieve our goal!

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger:

I am a medical student at (name of your school.) in the Caribbean region. Through out the years, our medical school has educated many well qualified physicians who are practicing medicine all over the United States. My school is not approved by the California medical board; therefore, I am banned from practicing medicine for lifetime even if I have a medical license from another state.

While it is excellent that the California medical board is trying hard to provide GOOD service, shouldn’t the job of evaluating foreign medical schools be done by the Department of Education? Further more, how many of the board members actually have degrees in education? What kind of credential do they have that allow them to evaluate all the medical schools in the entire world? And is this a part of their job description? Shouldn’t they evaluate the final product – the graduated students instead of judging a person’s credential by the school that s/he graduates from?


This recognized medical school list is biased and full of errors. For example, it approved two Cuban medical schools which the board member can’t possibly visit without intentionally violating the federal laws, but none from North Korea. It also listed schools such as, “Saint John’s University” and “Aurora University French School of Medicine” in China which do not even exist. It listed Wales as a country. It intentionally named Chinese province Taiwan as “Republic of Taiwan” which contradicts with the US government's policy.


As you may know, Doctors of osteopathic can practice in all fifty states just like MDs. However, this list did not list any of the osteopathic medical schools in the US. Further more, this list did not even include California’s very own osteopathic school - “Western University of Health Sciences.” Of course, we all know that there are many graduates from Western U that are practicing medicine all over California.


So as you can see, the California medical board set up a list which it itself doesn’t even follow. This list is entirely arbitrary. It simply does not make sense why the board approved schools that they did not visit or schools that don’t even exist. Do the board members really think that those few medicals schools located in those unknown little countries can educate better future physicians than the Caribbean medical schools which are founded by Americans which use American medical textbooks from day one?

It is probably safe to say that more than 80% of the Caribbean medical school students are non-white first or second generation immigrants. As an immigrant yourself, you can certainly understand how hard it is to fulfill the American dream. It seems that the board’s list sole purpose is to prevent fellow Californians from Caribbean medical schools to practice medicine.


Our state also imports nurses from all over the world. If the board wants to protect the people of California, how come the board is not trying to approve all the nursing schools all over the world? A nurse’s simple mistake can easily kill a patient.


Our great state only has so few medical schools. Each year, many of us are forced to go to other medical schools in other states. There are still some states don’t even have one single medical school even today. Some of us are forced to go to offshore medical schools because of that. Many medical schools in our country also discriminate against physician assistants, nurses, etc. Those people who want to study to be doctors have no choice, but to go to a Caribbean medical schools which are created by Americans and for American students with the same medical education format. We were not lucky enough to have a good education from day one. However, that does not mean that we can’t be good doctors. We are determined enough to study medicine in a third world country.

As you probably know, practicing medicine is a lifetime learning process. Two years of basic medical science training at another country is simply not enough. We really start to learn about medicine when we start our rotations at US hospitals for another two more years. Because California medical board banned our school, we are forced to rotate at hospitals at other states.

Further, even after we pass all three steps of United States Medical License Examinations (USMLE), and get our medical license at another state, we are still banned from practicing medicine in California for lifetime. On the other hand, the California medical board allows medical students and physicians of other countries, such as Bahrain, Burundi, Togo, Zambia, Zimbabwe to do rotations and practice medicine in California freely.

Our state always has a shortage of well trained physicians. Most of our graduates are specialized in family medicine and internal medicine which are really in great demand in California. Why hire physicians of other countries who may have language and cultural problems, when there are many of us who can get easily licensed at other states and who are ready to come back and serve the people of California.

Our founding father stated “all men are created equal.” And some people also say that this is a land of opportunity or even a land of second opportunity. We are not asking for special treatment. Any US medical students who pass step one of USMLE is allowed to do hospital rotations in California. Why can’t we be allowed to come back to California to do our rotation if we pass Step one. And why can’t we practice medicine if we pass all three steps of USMLE, and get a medical license at another state? The California medical board does not even give us an opportunity to prove for who we are.

So Dear Governor Schwarzenegger, we believe in you. We have great confidence that you will help us to solve this problem, and help us come back and serve our state for the benefits of our people.

Thank you very much.

I do hope you sent this email out. It is so full of grammatical errors and idiotic statements that I just about wet my pants.

I think they will read this and quickly thank their lucky stars that they have such high standards.

Firstly, while I sympathize with your sentiments, SDN is not a place to be launching a political campaign or some sort of "revolution."

Secondly, before you send a letter such as that out, I really hope you proof-read it beforehand. As it stands, it would only be detrimental to your cause and is slightly embarassing as an example of future physicians' command of English... A letter such as this needs to be succinct and as brief as possible, and also not sound as "high-school-ish" with the quoting of the founding fathers, etc. It can be stated in otherways.

Regardless, while we do promote discussion and displaying of ideas on SDN, this is not the place to be trying to rally en masse.

sure, sure, why don't you show me the "grammatical errors and idiotic statements."

I think that it is totally idiotic that the board approved med. schools in cuba, none from north korea, and called chinese province - taiwan as "republic of taiwan" which is so idiotic.

Just remember Rosa park, and you are acting as if you one of the white people on that bus.

We don't care what you think, we are fighting for equal rights.

The victory is already on our side, because the paper tigers at the board changed taiwan's republic name very quickly once the chinese consulate contacted them by email only.

So they are only abusing power against the people of california, they are not protecting anyone.

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I do hope you sent this email out. It is so full of grammatical errors and idiotic statements that I just about wet my pants.

I think they will read this and quickly thank their lucky stars that they have such high standards.
__________________
Obs and Gobs, PGY 1 pending

leorl wrote: " and also not sound as "high-school-ish" ...........Regardless, while we do promote discussion and displaying of ideas on SDN, "
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dirty taiwanese pig Sifosdiyas wrote: "F*ck you, you communist dog!...S.U.C.K. on my Taiwanese c*ck!"

moderator leorl, so why don't you tell us how you feel about the above comment that someoe left on here. Is this a good way to promote discussion?

I do not think that it is "highschoolish" to quote founding father, because that is what this country is based on. And government agents are suppose to hire people without discrimination.

The board members are all idiots to think that just because someone had two years of basic medical science in another country, that person will never be able to be a good doctor.

And it is totally idiotic to ban all those good IMGs who are already working physicians working at other states from working in california.

This is nothing, but plain simple discrimination! We should not give up until the day we achieve equal rights for all medical students, graduates!

I have family members in California and I personally am very happy with the stance California takes re: offshore medical schools. I'll be writing to the names you listed to ask them to keep it up. Thanks for collecting the addresses.

My "opnion" may be harsh but I think only the very best doctors should be allowed into the US and that those who couldn't get into medical schools in their own country are, nine times out of ten, of lower quality than those who could.

In situations where supply of doctors exceeds demand (ie: California) then why should state medical boards be asked to take the risk?

Why should they be asked to expend the resources (eg: my tax dollars) to sift and sort through offshore applications to find the <10% who are equally qualified when they already have access to a large pool of quality doctors who trained in their own country.

Simple really. Lots of other ways to be a useful and productive doctor that don't involve a California licence...

this is NOT about how many doctors california already have, this is about equal rights for all well trained doctors. This is the fundamental human right. There shall be no discrminiation.

How many white people were happy when blacks no longer have to give up their seats for the white people?

This is another civil rights violation .

Waiting4Ganong said:

I have family members in California and I personally am very happy with the stance California takes re: offshore medical schools. I'll be writing to the names you listed to ask them to keep it up. Thanks for collecting the addresses.

My "opnion" may be harsh but I think only the very best doctors should be allowed into the US and that those who couldn't get into medical schools in their own country are, nine times out of ten, of lower quality than those who could.

In situations where supply of doctors exceeds demand (ie: California) then why should state medical boards be asked to take the risk?

Why should they be asked to expend the resources (eg: my tax dollars) to sift and sort through offshore applications to find the <10% who are equally qualified when they already have access to a large pool of quality doctors who trained in their own country.

Simple really. Lots of other ways to be a useful and productive doctor that don't involve a California licence...

Click to expand...

- its not a civil rights issue. nobody is denying you licensure bc of your skin colour or your poor command of the english language. it is up to the MBOC to set the standards for medical licensure. That is what the california legislature charged them with whether you like it or not.
- they misspelled the official name of ROC, who cares ?
- have you inquired with MBOC why they don't have any North Korean schools on their list ? Could it be that nobody from that country ever applied for licensure ?

CalEquality said:

this is NOT about how many doctors california already have, this is about equal rights for all well trained doctors. This is the fundamental human right. There shall be no discrminiation.

How many white people were happy when blacks no longer have to give up their seats for the white people?

This is another civil rights violation .

Click to expand...

Don't demean yourself and disrespect the civil rights movement by comparing racism to the fact California doesn't care for those (9 times out of 10) not bright or hardworking enough to get into medical schools in their own country you muppet.

Discrimination based on ability is allowed - it is called meritocracy.

And learn how to spell. You make a mockery of your call for equal treatment with well trained doctors when you don't even have a basic command of written English.

What off-shore school did the originator of this thread attend anyway? I would be interested to know which carib. institution he believes equals US standards.
There are plenty of offshore/caribbean schools...some may be quite decent, but some will take any dolt who writes a fat check. California can't waste taxpayer money to keep up with this ridiculous business. There are already enough well qualified physicians trying to practice in the highly desirable state of california. No shortage of physicians in california.
No racism either...are you kidding? Anyone who has ever been to california knows that there are plenty of physicians from various backgrounds and cultures here.
I think the rules are just fine as they are.
Comparing this to racial injustice is quite insensitive.
Let this guy send his letter to the governor...his lack of intelligence and tact only serve to reinforce the laws already in place. 👎

1. it is 100% civil rights issue. because they are discriminating people based on the education they have. it is nothing different as if they will only allow graduates from ivy med. schools and deny all the rest of the med. schools.

and can any reasonable people actually believe that a doctor's diagnostic ability can be judged by the 2 years of basic science training?

They did not "misspelled" "roc" which stands for "republic of China." They used the name "republic of taiwan." So it was not a mistake. it was a strong political statement!

I don't care whether there are any north koreans applying for license or not, I am asking the board to explain why they approved cuban schools, but not nk schools?! and how did they approve those two cuban schools without visiting them?

f_w said:

- its not a civil rights issue. .....
- they misspelled the official name of ROC, who cares ?
- have you inquired with MBOC why they don't have any North Korean schools on their list ? Could it be that nobody from that country ever applied for licensure ?

Click to expand...

"not bright enough?" Einstein can't even finish elementary school!

this is a civil rights issues, because the board is discriminating people based on the education they have.

ya. ya. can you understand everything i wrote here, do you have a disability of reading? that has nothing to do with the discrimination the board has against all california IMGs. you are just as lame as the board members.

Waiting4Ganong said:

Don't demean yourself and disrespect the civil rights movement by comparing racism to the fact California doesn't care for those (9 times out of 10) not bright or hardworking enough to get into medical schools in their own country you muppet.

Discrimination based on ability is allowed - it is called meritocracy.

And learn how to spell. You make a mockery of your call for equal treatment with well trained doctors when you don't even have a basic command of written English.

Click to expand...

I am "lack of intelligence?" oh. show me some examples. or are you gettig paid the board to badmouth about me? random attackig people that you don't know only shows your low intelligence level.

do you think that every med. schools in the US have the equal standards?

giving a person a license to practice, a person has to pay money. how does that suggest that "ca is wasting taxpayer's money?"

because there are "enough well qualified physicians" that does not give the board the monopoly to prohibit others to come back to california to practice medicine.

you probably think that blacks givig up their seats to white people are fine, too.

Rael said:

.....which carib. institution he believes equals US standards.
.... California can't waste taxpayer money to keep up with this ridiculous business.
There are already enough well qualified physicians trying to practice in the highly desirable state of california. No shortage of physicians in california.

I think the rules are just fine as they are.
Comparing this to racial injustice is quite insensitive.
Let this guy send his letter to the governor...his lack of intelligence and tact only serve to reinforce the laws already in place. 👎

Click to expand...

1. it is 100% civil rights issue. because they are discriminating people based on the education they have.

Click to expand...

They are tasked with protecting the california public from physicians with a sub-par education. In the history of US medicine, licensure was introduced to weed out graduates unscrupulous commercial medical schools. The cali boards stance regarding the commercial offshore schools is part of that tradition.

it is nothing different as if they will only allow graduates from ivy med. schools and deny all the rest of the med. schools.

Click to expand...

And if they wanted to do that, they could.

and can any reasonable people actually believe that a doctor's diagnostic ability can be judged by the 2 years of basic science training?

Click to expand...

The criteria of schools for admitting students and their lack of an established teaching facility all can be used to gauge the quality of a medical education.

They did not "misspelled" "roc" which stands for "republic of China." They used the name "republic of taiwan." So it was not a mistake. it was a strong political statement!

Click to expand...

And who except for a couple of communist knuckleheads cares ?

I don't care whether there are any north koreans applying for license or not, I am asking the board to explain why they approved cuban schools, but not nk schools?! and how did they approve those two cuban schools without visiting them?

Click to expand...

I don't think they claim that they visited all of the schools. Given the about 100 medical schools in india, I doubt that the cali board visited all of them.

What did the medical board answer to your polite inquiry regarding the lack of approval for the north korean schools ?

they are not protecting, they are abusing their rights! they are abusing the people's freedom of choice!

we, the students are not asking the board to approve any of us who can't pass all three steps. there are many graduates such as from SMU who are already practicing medicine in other states, but the ignorant, pompous california board still refuses to give license to those well qualified physicians!

that is the central issue here. So if you can't understand this fundamental arguement, you certainly should not stand by the evil side.

If a student who are not allowed to go back to his/her home state for the 3rd and 4th year training, the board is effectively abusig their rights by preventing those students to have a good education!

you don't have to care what the official taiwan name is, but the fact is the board changed taiwan's name immediatly after the Chinese complained. those board members are nothing, but paper tigers. they are barking at us - the IM students, but they dare not to fight with the communists from China. So the communists win the game! you capitalist knucklehead.

>>>What did the medical board answer to your polite inquiry regarding the lack of approval for the north korean schools ?

nothing, because they know they are discriminatig people and countries. they are just shameless people who are abusing the power that californian people given to them!

What school do you attend? Why don't you tell us. Embarrassed?

Whatever school you are the product of is evidently willing to take people with the english skills of a 2nd grader.

CalEquity, you really should go into politics. The passion, political rhetoric and cliches, and the name-calling you're so adept with make you a perfect candidate. However, SDN does not tolerate name-calling and unwarranted ridiculing. Please consider this your first warning.

feel free to degrade me, ridicule my english or whatever you may. that only shows how shallow you are. This is not an issue about me as a single person vs. the board. This is about euqal treatment for all the californians whether they graduated from stanford or a do school or a caribbean school.

i am not the only one who is asking for equal treatment, hundreds and thousands of other caribbean grads are asking for the same equal rights!

Cal,
It seems that you have confused standards with discrimination. What the California Medical Board has done is set standards. What your school has failed to do is meet those standards set forth by the California Board. Don't "hate on" California becuase it has standards.

CalEquality said:

i am not the only one who is asking for equal treatment, hundreds and thousands of other caribbean grads are asking for the same equal rights!

Click to expand...

Meet the same standards as everyone else and you will have the same opportunities. If all those FMG grads want equal "rights" then they should have to have comparable MCATS.

I assume your VR score was a little low? Is that what kept you out of a US school?

Still won't state the name of your school? What's the matter...is it that embarrassing...one of those "online" caribbean schools maybe?

If you don't like california's policy, then stay out...we have enough doctors here anyway.

Personally, I'm glad California has some standards and keeps out POORLY trained physicians like you who probably had an mcat score of 12 and couldn't get into any school in the country.

Bottom line is, you knew the policies before you left the country. Why bitch about it now?
Frankly, if it was that easy...if you could just go anywhere and come back and do residency here and practice here like the rest of us, what's the incentive for those of us who choose to work out butts off, get good scores and go to a good school?
Survival of the fittest...you just didn't make the cut...deal with it.

CalEquality


I am not sure that it has to do with racial/ethnic discrimination. The medical boards have for long been the means of protecting the status quo for physicians. The obstacles they put before FMGs are most likely attempts to control the supply/demand market of U.S. health care professionals.


Best wishes in your political goals! 👍

They have no standards. They approved two med. schools in Cuba, but none from North korea.

And graduates from SMU and other schools have been practicing medicine in many states. So why aren't they allowed to practice medicine in their home state - california?

Further, I have said it before, are they simply stupid to think that two years of basic science training is good enough to judge a person's ability to practice medicine?

Why don't they allow students to do their 3rd ad 4th years rotations in their own home state? They are not allowed to do any unsupervised things. so what damage can they possibly do?

Jambi said:

Cal,
....... What the California Medical Board has done is set standards. ....

Click to expand...

Jambi said:

Meet the same standards as everyone else and you will have the same opportunities.

Click to expand...

well said. however, that is not what the board is doing! I am talking about giving equal rights to all those IMGs who graduated from those nonapproved schools passed all three steps, who are successfully practicing medicine at other states.

however, according to the current board rule, they are still banned for the rest of their life time!

And for the other person who keeps asking which school I go to, it is not important. as i have said it before, it is NOT me vs. the board. it is the entire graduates vs the board.

Jambi said:

Meet the same standards as everyone else and you will have the same opportunities.

Click to expand...

well said. however, that is not what the board is doing! I am talking about giving equal rights to all those IMGs who graduated from those nonapproved schools passed all three steps, who are successfully practicing medicine at other states.

however, according to the current board rule, they are still banned for the rest of their life time!

And for the other person who keeps asking which school I go to, it is not important. as i have said it before, it is NOT me vs. the board. it is the entire graduates vs the board.