does a harder major and harder school influence your gpa?

I am a fourth year undergraduate in BioMedical Engineering at a pretty competitive school. Does my difficult major make up for a not so competitive gpa (3.0)? Will getting a 35+ increase my chances for admission a lot or am I just screwed based on my gpa?

I have all the other shananigans taken care of (5+ summers of research, volunteering, teaching experience...). So, I'm not concerned about that.

Also, is it true that the UC Med schools are pretty cut throat on numbers, especially gpa?

Thanks.

coolK said:

I am a fourth year undergraduate in BioMedical Engineering at a pretty competitive school. Does my difficult major make up for a not so competitive gpa (3.0)? Will getting a 35+ increase my chances for admission a lot or am I just screwed based on my gpa?

I have all the other shananigans taken care of (5+ summers of research, volunteering, teaching experience...). So, I'm not concerned about that.

Also, is it true that the UC Med schools are pretty cut throat on numbers, especially gpa?

Thanks.

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I am really rooting for you because I am sort of in your boat. I graduated last year in Immunology and took on an interest in chemistry. I ended up taking a good 3-4 science class a semester and finish with a 3.39 science gpa. I only got an average on the mcat (30) and I've received a couple interview but none from any of the UC's. So is it the grades? I dont know for sure, but I think it might have play a factor since My extracurricular wasnt that weak.

coolK said:

does a harder major and harder school influence your gpa?

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Short answer: no.

They will take into account the fact that your classes were hard, but 3.0 is a little low for even that to help too much. It sounds like you have good ECs and such so I think a good MCAT would get you into a few schools, I don't know about the UCs though.

You may consider taking some bunny science courses to beef up the GPA a little bit and then I think you would be an easy admission. I think the whole bump up phenomenon for tough majors works if you have at least a 3.3, but lower and I don't know how much it would help.

Of course you may be a really engaging person who would interview well with spectacular life experiences, so don't count yourself out. And the last thing you should do is take advice from a stranger on a message board 😉

Good luck!

coolK said:

I am a fourth year undergraduate in BioMedical Engineering at a pretty competitive school. Does my difficult major make up for a not so competitive gpa (3.0)? Will getting a 35+ increase my chances for admission a lot or am I just screwed based on my gpa?

I have all the other shananigans taken care of (5+ summers of research, volunteering, teaching experience...). So, I'm not concerned about that.

Also, is it true that the UC Med schools are pretty cut throat on numbers, especially gpa?

Thanks.

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1. I think adcomms will take your major into account (but it will not be an overrriding factor).
2. Your school: school prestige is definitely considered...however, med schools may weight this factor differently. Some schools may weight an individual's undergrad (etc...) institution according to the success that current and prev. med students representing this undergrad institutions have had at the med school. So a schools public ranking could conceivably not carry as much wieight as one would think if students from that instituion are not performing well.
3. UC's are number ****** for sure

Yes, but it is only a marginal factor. Schools may take the 3.5 with an engineering major over the 3.7 with a music major, but they most certainly won't take the 3.3 engineering major over the 3.7, 3.8, or 3.9 music major.

Choose your major wisely, and pay attention to those grades. That is far more important for medical schools that the subjects you take or what you major in.

Major in something you like, but also something you can do well in.

modelslashactor said:

They will take into account the fact that your classes were hard, but 3.0 is a little low for even that to help too much. It sounds like you have good ECs and such so I think a good MCAT would get you into a few schools, I don't know about the UCs though.

You may consider taking some bunny science courses to beef up the GPA a little bit and then I think you would be an easy admission. I think the whole bump up phenomenon for tough majors works if you have at least a 3.3, but lower and I don't know how much it would help.

Of course you may be a really engaging person who would interview well with spectacular life experiences, so don't count yourself out. And the last thing you should do is take advice from a stranger on a message board 😉

Good luck!

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Thank you for your advice. But my concern with taking some bunny courses is that it won't influence the gpa very much unless take at least 5 more classes. So, I would have to be prepared to take an extra semester or two.

Also, I know this is really far fetched, but have you ever heard of a professor with connections call med schools before secondaries are sent out on your behalf to put in a verbal recommendation? Do connections help with these sort of things? I know this sounds shady, but for me my numbers from frosh/soph year don't really demonstrate my academic/communication capabilities.

Well, thanks again.

mercaptovizadeh said:

but they most certainly won't take the 3.3 engineering major over the 3.7, 3.8, or 3.9 music major.

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no.

I have to agree with the previous posters. Although BME (and other engineering programs) are a lot harder than vanilla biology majors, a 3.0 will probably not fly with most schools, and I would bet not at UC med schools either.

Considering to get into our BME grad program at UCD, you would need at least a 3.25. You are cutting it close even for graduate standards, therefore in the eyes of med schools, it may be a bit more harsh.

UC's equally weigh undergrad GPA and MCAT. Therefore doing well in one may not make up for the other. Most schools in the US are like this as well. You want to be able to do well in hard classes, rather than use the challenge as a reason for getting a B average. Now if given two students who had the same GPA, MCAT, EC's, but one is BME, and the other was Bio, then BME would shine. If you got two students in BME with the exact same stats, but one was from UCSD and the other is from UCD. As much as I love my school, the guy from UCSD might be more impressive since UCSD has one of hte best (if not #1) BME program in the nation. But since everyone is different, these scenarios are unlikely to happen, and you are better off at just focusing on getting a strong GPA.

UC's also screen GPA AND MCAT. I think the cut off isn't any lower than 3.0, but probably around a 3.1 or 3.2. While MCAT scores will probably be a 24-26. If you make the cut-off, you get a secondary. Of course if you don't meet the cut off but your personal statement/application indicated some personal challenges, (eg: support family during undergrad) then you may be transferred to the manual sorting pile where they look at your application even more thoroughly and decide if you get a secondary or not.

Problem is, if you don't get a secondary, letters of recs are meaningless since they won't' see them. No secondaries = no interviews, and interviews are worth a lot in terms of getting into med school. Take home message is, you might want to boost your GPA with additional challenging coursework.

On my end, I had a low GPA after undergrad. So I actually did the BME route to boost my GPA since I knew these classes are challenging. That worked fine, but ran out of $$ to pay for these classes. So went and did grad school.
Therefore work hard, get that GPA up, don't use school prestiege, and major as leverage for getting into med school, because you may not like the end results . Good luck!

Med schools expect that you can handle whatever major you choose, so sadly, your 3.0 as a BME major will cost you a spot when going up against a communications major with a 3.1, all else being equal.

PostalWookie said:

... sadly, your 3.0 as a BME major will cost you a spot when going up against a communications major with a 3.1, all else being equal.

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Hmm...I've got to disagree with this. If coming out .1 on top was the sole determinant of acceptances, all things considered, everyone applying to med school would major in A.) Communications-esque majors, or B.) Psychology-esque majors. 😀

mercaptovizadeh said:

Yes, but it is only a marginal factor. Schools may take the 3.5 with an engineering major over the 3.7 with a music major, but they most certainly won't take the 3.3 engineering major over the 3.7, 3.8, or 3.9 music major.

Choose your major wisely, and pay attention to those grades. That is far more important for medical schools that the subjects you take or what you major in.

Major in something you like, but also something you can do well in.

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Then again, the diversity of a music major vs the diversity of a science/engineering major...
He's not applying for an mstp program.

so, only a cumulative gpa counts? Not a upward trend in performance? I mean in order to bring up a 3.0 gpa to lets say a 3.4 would take at least a year and half of course work.

What does one do? I mean hopefully I can explain in my personal statement the health hardships I faced that affected my first two years. But, its sucks how it is based on numbers.

How do I focus on making my primary application the best possible?

Thank you very much.

There's also the issue of your BCPM GPA v. your total GPA.

what is bcpm? I'm not too familiar with all the acronyms yet.

I am considering mstp because I am interested in academic medicine afterwards, but aren't those even harder to get into? Aren't those even selective with gpa/mcat? If you have a solid research background, does an mstp sound promising?

Thanks.

coolK said:

so, only a cumulative gpa counts? Not a upward trend in performance? I mean in order to bring up a 3.0 gpa to lets say a 3.4 would take at least a year and half of course work.

What does one do? I mean hopefully I can explain in my personal statement the health hardships I faced that affected my first two years. But, its sucks how it is based on numbers.

How do I focus on making my primary application the best possible?

Thank you very much.

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Trends are good. As Rafa pointed out, BCPM is also considered. Not to mention course workload. An upward trend will be considered, and it can't hurt you. But you need to sell yourself by excelling in harder classes. I cannot not emphasize that enough.

If you had health issues then briefly mention that in the PS, however put it in a positive light. You NEVER want to make it sound like an excuse. There are those out there who had serious health/personal issues, yet still managed to do well. They instead used it as a strength, and I would surmise, they got into med school (if not came very close to getting in).

Since your health issues were during the first two years, then you have will have to excel all of your upper division BME courses during your junior and senior (and super senior) years. In regards to how long it will take to get up to a 3.4, i can't say since I don't know how many units you have. But based on personal experience, after 2 years of coursework, the amount that you go up despite getting 4.0's each quarter is frustratingly slow. Always quick to drop down, but slow to go up. Thats also assuming maximum GPA per quarter too, and I have yet to feel confident that is attainable for everyone. My friend however did have a cumulative science GPA of 4.0 (biotechnology major), but got a B in one non-sci course so her overall was 3.91, how hardcore is that..lol. So its certainly possible.

🙂

coolK said:

what is bcpm? I'm not too familiar with all the acronyms yet.

I am considering mstp because I am interested in academic medicine afterwards, but aren't those even harder to get into? Aren't those even selective with gpa/mcat? If you have a solid research background, does an mstp sound promising?

Thanks.

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BCPM = Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics GPA. When you fill in classes into the AMCAS (the head honcho med school application), it'll calculate two GPAs - one composed solely of the sciency-classes above, and another with all classes factored in. Anyway, if you've got a high total GPA and a low BCPM, try to pull the BCPM up, so there won't be a huge discrepancy between the two.

Academic medicine - I'm not too strong on that, advice-wise. Lots of folks here are though, and someone'll help ya out. 🙂 But yes, research seems highly desirable for going into academics. However, you can get into academic medicine from pretty much any med school. The priorities there are primarily high grades and recommendations. So in other words, I believe what you do once you're *in* med school will have a lot more to do with where you match than what you do to get *into* med school.

coolK said:

If you have a solid research background, does an mstp sound promising?

Thanks.

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Solid research is only one aspect. The dean of admissions at UCSF called MSTP's: "the people that walk on water", in reference to they work very hard, and have stellar stats. If I recall, the average GPA of those that got into UCSF's MSTP program was 3.8, and an average MCAT score of 34. Thats for about 12 people. So the standard deviation is probably very small (e.g.: not much variation from the mean).

MSTP's in general are insanely hard to get into at ANY school since you will get tuition paid for, and a salary is provided to you. Who doesn't want free money. Again, research is only one aspect. The only difference with MSTPs is, prior research experience is required, rather than an option.

For academic medicine, you can be in academic medicine with or without a PhD. Most of our faculty at UCDSOM are MDs. With a few MD/PhDs, and some with only PhDs.