Splitting UPenn/Yale Second Look

I posted about this on the Penn class thread, but yes, I am. They are far too close in my mind to be able to pick one without seeing both. I think I'm going to splurge on multiple Amtrak tickets so I can go to Penn Thursday and Saturday, and Yale Friday (Yale's Thursday program doesn't seem like it will be that helpful, though it makes my travel plans a lot more complicated). How are you planning on going between them?

UPenn and Yale are also my top two choices.

I really like Penn's 1.5 yr science curriculum, but I prefer Yale's P/F grading system. I like Philly better than New Haven, but I thought the Yale students seemed a little happier than the Penn ones. The Penn students seemed a little more mature and disciplined than the Yale ones too, but that might've just been the random people I happened to meet.

Which are you leaning towards and why?

hey all....im splitting that weekend too. i talked to people at yale and they said it would be cool if I got there on Wednesday, so my plan as of now is to do Yale Wednesday night, Thursday day and night, and then get my ass over to Penn first thing Friday morning and spend Friday, Sat and Sun (I know the program ends, but ill stick around just trying to get a sense of the area, city, etc.). Anybody know where the Philly airport is relative to the school?

abcehmu said:

hey all....im splitting that weekend too. i talked to people at yale and they said it would be cool if I got there on Wednesday, so my plan as of now is to do Yale Wednesday night, Thursday day and night, and then get my ass over to Penn first thing Friday morning and spend Friday, Sat and Sun (I know the program ends, but ill stick around just trying to get a sense of the area, city, etc.). Anybody know where the Philly airport is relative to the school?

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The airport is an easy and relatively short train ride from campus. It's an easy walk from campus to the train stop.

2010MD said:

I posted about this on the Penn class thread, but yes, I am. They are far to close in my mind to be able to pick one without seeing both. I think I'm going to splurge on multiple Amtrak tickets so I can go to Penn Thursday and Saturday, and Yale Friday (Yale's Thursday program doesn't seem like it will be that helpful, though it makes my travel plans a lot more complicated). How are you planning on going between them?

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I think Yale's thursday program looks pretty helpful...several different tours, financial aide appointments, a dinner/social time to meet students/potential classmates. The only major thing you're missing will be the Panel Discussion w/the Deans, but in all honesty I think you can figure out most of that if you read up on Yale's curriculum, research on the web.

I will be doing what abcehmu is doing...going up to New Haven on Wed. night (although the admissions office hasn't gotten back to me on whether that's OK or not), then spending Thursday @ Yale, and then taking the train down early on Friday morning (although I'm going to the Hopkins second look, not Penn).

is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale? right now penn and yale are my top two choices, and columbia is somewhere behind them. aside from being in nyc, is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale.

niceguy3521 said:

is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale? right now penn and yale are my top two choices, and columbia is somewhere behind them. aside from being in nyc, is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale.

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It seems like I'm at the same position as you, deciding between Yale, Penn, Columbia (and Cornell for me). I don't think there is any reason to pick either Columbia or Cornell over Penn/Yale. I personally have really narrowed it down between the two. I think it will come down to fin aid.

niceguy3521 said:

is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale? right now penn and yale are my top two choices, and columbia is somewhere behind them. aside from being in nyc, is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale.

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if you want to go into neuro then I'd def. say Columbia. Columbia is probably also slightly stronger in surgery.

06applicant said:

It seems like I'm at the same position as you, deciding between Yale, Penn, Columbia (and Cornell for me). I don't think there is any reason to pick either Columbia or Cornell over Penn/Yale. I personally have really narrowed it down between the two. I think it will come down to fin aid.

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thanks 06 applicant. then, on a totally unrelated note, what is the max parental income to receive fin aid? of course there are many relevant factors aside from income (eg siblings in college) but if your parent's annual income is over 150 k is it worth applying for aid?

niceguy3521 said:

thanks 06 applicant. then, on a totally unrelated note, what is the max parental income to receive fin aid? of course there are many relevant factors aside from income (eg siblings in college) but if your parent's annual income is over 150 k is it worth applying for aid?

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I don't see how it would hurt to apply, but I think most schools will look at 150k as too high for aid.

niceguy3521 said:

is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale? right now penn and yale are my top two choices, and columbia is somewhere behind them. aside from being in nyc, is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale.

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also choosing between these 3+ cornell. Im really unsure at this point, but do think that Columbia has strengths over those schools (as do the other two over Columbia and each other) in addition to being in NYC.

Columbia trumps both in the diversity of the clinical population/cases you will be exposed to.

Columbia trumps both in surgery, the neurosciences.

Columbia trumps both in accessibility to a community to which you can give something back to as a medical student, especially if you speak Spanish.

Columbia trumps both in public health/international health care.

abcehmu said:

hey all....im splitting that weekend too. i talked to people at yale and they said it would be cool if I got there on Wednesday, so my plan as of now is to do Yale Wednesday night, Thursday day and night, and then get my ass over to Penn first thing Friday morning and spend Friday, Sat and Sun (I know the program ends, but ill stick around just trying to get a sense of the area, city, etc.). Anybody know where the Philly airport is relative to the school?

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The airport is an easy SEPTA ride away. Check this link here. Also, New Haven/Tweed airport only flies direct to two cities; one is Cincinatti, the other is Philadelphia. You're in luck

Centinel said:

The airport is an easy SEPTA ride away. Check this link here. Also, New Haven/Tweed airport only flies direct to two cities; one is Cincinatti, the other is Philadelphia. You're in luck

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awesome, thanks.

niceguy3521 said:

is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale? right now penn and yale are my top two choices, and columbia is somewhere behind them. aside from being in nyc, is there any reason to go to columbia over penn/yale.

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Were you at the P&S revisit event?

So here are my reasons for P&S over Penn or Yale. I know you said 'aside from being in nyc,' but I'm going to mention it anyway, in a different light.

If you think you might want to end up settling down in NYC, it's a hell of a lot easier to end up with a spot in NY-Presby if you start in the system.

I'd agree with the above posters that the overall patient/case diversity. You will see an extremely broad spectrum of racial and socioeconomic diversity in the Columbia teaching hospitals. I don't think any other school can compete on this point.

In addition to the strength in public health, I seem to remember reading that you can get a free MPH, but I'm not positive on this one.

Neurosciences.

For my money, the main reasons to go to P&S over Penn or Yale would be the students and the P&S club. All three are going to give you a top notch education and great placement, but the P&S club is really unique. Are you musical, athletic, or theatrical? Do you like wine? Do you have outside interests that you really want to continue to cultivate in medical school? If you do, hands down, you need to come to P&S. If you don't, I really would suggest not coming to Columbia, because you're going to get irritated at all the exciting things we'll be doing.

dbhvt said:

Were you at the P&S revisit event?

So here are my reasons for P&S over Penn or Yale. I know you said 'aside from being in nyc,' but I'm going to mention it anyway, in a different light.

If you think you might want to end up settling down in NYC, it's a hell of a lot easier to end up with a spot in NY-Presby if you start in the system.

I'd agree with the above posters that the overall patient/case diversity. You will see an extremely broad spectrum of racial and socioeconomic diversity in the Columbia teaching hospitals. I don't think any other school can compete on this point.

In addition to the strength in public health, I seem to remember reading that you can get a free MPH, but I'm not positive on this one.

Neurosciences.

For my money, the main reasons to go to P&S over Penn or Yale would be the students and the P&S club. All three are going to give you a top notch education and great placement, but the P&S club is really unique. Are you musical, athletic, or theatrical? Do you like wine? Do you have outside interests that you really want to continue to cultivate in medical school? If you do, hands down, you need to come to P&S. If you don't, I really would suggest going to Yale or Penn, because you're going to get irritated at all the exciting things we'll be doing.

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But you can't really know what Penn is like when you didn't get an interview there, so it would be tough for you to compare them.

It's not just you, but I've noticed all over the board that people just push the schools they were accepted to, even when they're not in the position to make true neutral comparisons. Of course it's expected that people are going to be happiest with the schools that accepted them, so I don't know why people keep asking these school X vs. Y questions on SDN. Don't people have pre-med advisors to talk to?

I was at P&S second look. I was really hoping that they would show me something that would put them above Penn and other schools in my mind. However, that really did not occur. They kept saying the students differentiate P&S from other schools. However, all med schools have very interesting and dynamic students. Moreover, Columbia needs something like the P&S club because they are not on an undergraduate campus and do not have direct access to those events.

Furthermore, I really did not like the area around the hospital.

The major positve aspect of Columbia is that they seem very focused on teaching.

06applicant said:

Of course it's expected that people are going to be happiest with the schools that accepted them

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I think that's very true. Columbia was my first choice, but they waitlisted me. Then Penn accepted me, and now I'm all about Penn, and am thinking of not sending my letter of intent to columbia anymore. I wonder if columbia would still be my #1 school if I had gotten into both?! Has anyone else found that their opinions changed depending on what schools accepted/waitlisted/rejected them?

Well, Columbia is a great school and I think people are desperately trying to hear good things about the where they would end up. It is just human nature. That being said, I think people who have gotten accepted to those schools (and didn't have a preconcieved list) can give "subjective" opinions about the school.

That being said, I would choose Penn over columbia (and I did) because of location, overall student happinness, having an undergrad campus (this blows away the P&S argument in my opinion), level of student involvement in community service, and difference in type of students each school attracts.

infiniti said:

Well, Columbia is a great school and I think people are desperately trying to hear good things about the where they would end up. It is just human nature. That being said, I think people who have gotten accepted to those schools (and didn't have a preconcieved list) can give "subjective" opinions about the school.

That being said, I would choose Penn over columbia (and I did) because of location, overall student happinness, having an undergrad campus (this blows away the P&S argument in my opinion), level of student involvement in community service, and difference in type of students each school attracts.

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What made you think Penn students were happier than Columbia students?

infiniti said:

Well, Columbia is a great school and I think people are desperately trying to hear good things about the where they would end up. It is just human nature. That being said, I think people who have gotten accepted to those schools (and didn't have a preconcieved list) can give "subjective" opinions about the school.

That being said, I would choose Penn over columbia (and I did) because of location, overall student happinness, having an undergrad campus (this blows away the P&S argument in my opinion), level of student involvement in community service, and difference in type of students each school attracts.

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I'm sure everyone has a different viewpoint on this, but... in your opinion, what types of students does penn vs. columbia attract?

06applicant said:

But you can't really know what Penn is like when you didn't get an interview there, so it would be tough for you to compare them.

It's not just you, but I've noticed all over the board that people just push the schools they were accepted to, even when they're not in the position to make true neutral comparisons. Of course it's expected that people are going to be happiest with the schools that accepted them, so I don't know why people keep asking these school X vs. Y questions on SDN. Don't people have pre-med advisors to talk to?

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It's true I didn't interview at either Penn or Yale, though I have talked to people at both places. Others would certainly be a better source about their qualities.

In responding to the question, I wanted to offer my opinion about why someone might choose P&S, and so am principally describing the school I know the most about. I expect you to consider my advice biased, because it is. But you should know that Columbia was my first choice a year ago, and remains so today, so I'm not simply switching my allegiance based on where I was accepted.


I do have to address the misconception that P&S is not well connected to the undergrad, and that the P&S club is somehow a surrogate for involvement you might have in undergrad activities at other schools.

NoSoupforYou13 said:

Columbia needs something like the P&S club because they are not on an undergraduate campus and do not have direct access to those events

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This is simply not true (see below)

infiniti said:

I would choose Penn over columbia (and I did) because of location, overall student happinness, having an undergrad campus (this blows away the P&S argument in my opinion)

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I think you'll all figure out where you need to be, but if some conception of P&S as being isolated from the undergrad campus is a significant factor in your decision, I think you missed something.

168th (the med center campus) is a free shuttle or 5 minute subway ride away from the undergrad. It's 2.6 miles north of the main campus on Google maps (W168th and Broadway to W116th and Broadway). I went down there on Saturday to check it out and ran into four P&Sers I had met previously. I know two P&S students who play in the undergrad orchestra, and would be very surprised if those are the only students involved in university-wide extracurriculars at the Mourningside (undergrad) campus.

As a P&S student, you have access to the facilities at the undergrad, and can enroll in one undergrad class a semester. I really get the idea that you can be as connected to events down there as you want to be. It's accesible and you won't be alone.

I maintain my assertion that the P&S club is unique in it's breadth and scope, and it leads to a unique social and cultural atmosphere. It is fundamentally different than the opportunities to get involved in extracurricular activities with undergrads--though they exist at Columbia as well.

I really wasn't being facetious in my earlier post when I said 'if you don't have outside (ie: NONMEDICAL) interests you want continue in medical school, P&S might not be the place for you. The fact is, the majority of students I have met are involved, and they seem very happy. The students who I met that aren't involved seemed to be a little bitter, and expressed some feelings of isolation. Take the advice or leave it. Good luck with your choice. If you're considering P&S, email some current students so you don't have to rely on me for information. I'm not, afterall, a current student. I'm sure the admissions office will give you addresses if you didn't get any at second look.

Guys, you have majorly hijacked this thread. I came back from the weekend all excited to see all these new comments about Yale/Penn second look, and instead it's turned into a pro-Columbia thread. Your comments are appreciated but not necessarily here. People considering Penn and Yale don't need to read comments like this :

dbhvt said:

Do you have outside interests that you really want to continue to cultivate in medical school? If you do, hands down, you need to come to P&S. If you don't, I really would suggest going to Yale or Penn, because you're going to get irritated at all the exciting things we'll be doing.

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Because I'm sure no one at Penn or Yale has any interests outside medicine. In fact, they find outside interests IRRITATING. Wtf.


To get this thread back on topic, I hope not everyone splitting the weekend is going to Yale Thursday and Penn Friday, because then I won't get to meet any of the other folks sharing the Penn/Yale dilemma. Is anyone else going to Penn on Thursday and Yale on Friday?

2010MD said:

Guys, you have majorly hijacked this thread. I came back from the weekend all excited to see all these new comments about Yale/Penn second look, and instead it's turned into a pro-Columbia thread. Your comments are appreciated but not necessarily here. People considering Penn and Yale don't need to read comments like this :



Because I'm sure no one at Penn or Yale has any interests outside medicine. In fact, they find outside interests IRRITATING. Wtf.


To get this thread back on topic, I hope not everyone splitting the weekend is going to Yale Thursday and Penn Friday, because then I won't get to meet any of the other folks sharing the Penn/Yale dilemma. Is anyone else going to Penn on Thursday and Yale on Friday?

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Didn't mean to offend, nor did I mean Penn and Yale kids don't have outside interests. I just wanted to say that you're not going to like Columbia if you don't. It was poorly worded, and I can see why it pissed you off. I edited it.

Sorry for hijacking.

Enjoy second looks. I'm out of this thread.

Just curious- where did all of you who were debating U Penn vs. Yale end up choosing?