My Skin Is 'White,' but I'm Gonna Claim URM Status. Any Thoughts?

Um.... I don't want to argue to the death about this, but regardless of how much you feel that you've suffered as much or in the same way, the technical requirement for URM designation is that you actually are of African or Hispanic or Native American descent... I think the best thing to do would be to claim disadvantaged status and explain your particular situation....

It's interesting what some first-time posters come out of the woodworks with.

I'm gonna chill in the cut with this one, though. I'd like to hear responses. Let the games begin.

Although I understand where you are comming from, there are aspects to being URM that you at a "white-skinned" person can never fully understand, what other URM deal with in their daily lives. From your above description, you have had a unique and difficult upbringing. Take this story to the center of your personal statement, rather than declaring yourself URM. You will make yourself stand out as an applicant without upsetting anyone.

coldstream said:

Hey SDN People,
As the title suggests, most people would say that i'm white if you passed me on the street. However, nothing about me or my life is 'white,' and looking at what the purpose of the whole URM thing is, I think I should be able to claim URM status. Here's my story. I was adopted by a black couple when I was two years old, and I grew up with 2 black sisters and 1 black brother. We lived (still do) in a crappy predominantly black urban neighborhood, and I went to predeominantly crappy black urban schools. Gangs and violence and all sorts of b.s. were common. My parents made little money, and me and my siblings had to fight for everything we got (including getting to go to college, which neither of my parents did). I've had like a jillion jobs, and i feel like anything a "URM" has gone through I have too. The only thing that i haven't experienced is getting looked at like a shoplifter when i go to a shopping mall, which my brother experiences.

So, my question is, if I put URM on my file, and then go to interviews, will these medical admissions people get pissed and outright deny me?! I feel I have just as much right as anybody else to put URM on my file, and i'm willing to argue to the death about this. Peas

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I would file as a disadvantaged applicant and explain the situation in the essay. That way instead of having them question the URM status.

MediMama23 said:

It's interesting what some first-time posters come out of the woodworks with.

I'm gonna chill in the cut with this one, though. I'd like to hear responses. Let the games begin.

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I didn't even notice the first time poster thing... I'm much more likely to notice it on the Top school vs. top school or top school vs. top school w/scholarship type threads... It's sad to see people who have done well in the app process and on the MCAT not contributing anything to the forum until they need a bit of help or want to show off...

However, I don't mean to hijack the thread.... Let the games continue!

Saluki said:

Um.... I don't want to argue to the death about this, but regardless of how much you feel that you've suffered as much or in the same way, the technical requirement is that you actually are of African or Hispanic or Native American descent... I think the best thing to do would be to claim disadvantaged status and explain your particular situation....

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I think this is a good response. You can claim disadvantaged status for any number of reasons and are then expected to explain it. The URM check box is specifically for racial identification.

By the way, most people agree that the logic behind giving preferential treatment to URM's is that patients of the same ethnic heritage will feel most comfortable with you as their doctor. Although one could argue that you are more likely to practice in a black neighborhood because of how you were raised, I still don't think you are entitled to URM status.

i had a friend that did the same thing and claimed URM though he was 100% white. he got bombed at one of his interviews and the interviewer called him a liar to his face. seriously. im not making this up.

i think though you were raised in a black way, you are still white by color. i dont want to sound racist. but the best example to give is eminem.

eminem sings, talks, dresses, and acts like a black guy. but regardless, he is still white.

you can't apply for URM status, but i think you can qualify for disadvantaged.

you may want to check out the AAMC website for any limitations on how to claim URM status...but based on what you said about your financial situation, you would probably fall under disadvantaged status.

theunderdog said:

eminem sings, talks, dresses, and acts like a black guy. but regardless, he is still white.

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this one kind of sounds like vanilla ice, not eminem...

ice, ice, baby...

Your background (being adopted, growing up in that neighborhood) should give you enough of a story and edge. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by claiming to be black when you really aren't because you'll be blacklisted for lying.

Hope the admin locks this thread up before the inevitable happens.

I'm not saying this isn't true, but what's the likelihood of a poor family adopting a 2 year old child when they either already had children of their own or were going to in the near future. And it just so happens that this particular couple wanted to adopt a white baby so the child could one day question affirmative action.

willthatsall said:

I'm not saying this isn't true, but what's the likelihood of a poor family adopting a 2 year old child when they either already had children of their own or were going to in the near future. And it just so happens that this particular couple wanted to adopt a white baby so the child could one day question affirmative action.

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I'm not sure what the likelihood of a black family adopting a white child when so many black children need adoption is, but the poor thing doesn't seem to make a difference to some people My cousin didn't have a lot of money, but after having three kids of their own they adopted three special needs kids from Korea (there is a reduced fee for people willing to take a child with health problems....)

nimotsu said:

Hope the admin locks this thread up before the inevitable happens.

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Before they do, though, I would like to comment that Eminem still sings and talks like a white guy. You could still tell him out from a crowd.

One person that fooled me, though, is Chamillionaire. I really thought he was Hispanic, until I saw the video . He SOUNDS sexy, though.

I'm gonna go against the grain and say go ahead and try it. Honestly, if any adcom has the gall to question you on it, you can explain your situation and probably embarrass them for asking. The way in which you were raised and things you've experienced have likely affected you in such a way to make you someone who black patients WOULD be comfortable with as their doctor. It's also awesome that you're willing to be iconoclastic; what you're doing is a great yet passive ways of pointing out what's wrong with the system.

coldstream said:

Hey SDN People,
As the title suggests, most people would say that i'm white if you passed me on the street. However, nothing about me or my life is 'white,' and looking at what the purpose of the whole URM thing is, I think I should be able to claim URM status. Here's my story. I was adopted by a black couple when I was two years old, and I grew up with 2 black sisters and 1 black brother. We lived (still do) in a crappy predominantly black urban neighborhood, and I went to predeominantly crappy black urban schools. Gangs and violence and all sorts of b.s. were common. My parents made little money, and me and my siblings had to fight for everything we got (including getting to go to college, which neither of my parents did). I've had like a jillion jobs, and i feel like anything a "URM" has gone through I have too. The only thing that i haven't experienced is getting looked at like a shoplifter when i go to a shopping mall, which my brother experiences.

So, my question is, if I put URM on my file, and then go to interviews, will these medical admissions people get pissed and outright deny me?! I feel I have just as much right as anybody else to put URM on my file, and i'm willing to argue to the death about this. Peas

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You might not qualify for URM, but you might qualify as a DISADVANTED student.

if it says somewhere that URM only describes people of native american, african american, or hispanic descent....then you can't

if its something that gives more leaway, then you probably could get away with it, especially if you talk about it in your essays. As I am sure you know, people don't fit into boxes very easily, and that is something you can talk about.

pnasty said:

if it says somewhere that URM only describes people of native american, african american, or hispanic descent....then you can't

if its something that gives more leaway, then you probably could get away with it, especially if you talk about it in your essays. As I am sure you know, people don't fit into boxes very easily, and that is something you can talk about.

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Sadly enough to say, I believe the official rule according to the AAMC website is only true black people, native americans, and certain but not all latinos. In fact, the only hispanics included are Mexican and Puerto Rican.

Disadvantaged status might be claimable though.

As others have said, even if you have a legitimate reason for claiming URM status you will probably not gain any type of advantage by doing this and may even hurt your chances of being accepted. So why do it then? Maybe you want to see what happens. See how people react. Have some arguments with MD interviewers. If that is your motivation, I say go for it. Be sure to keep posting and let us know how it goes. It should make for some interesting reading. Maybe you can bring a hidden tape recorder to the interviews so you can transcribe them blow by blow for us.

Just for the sake of argument, during slavery people thought that you were black if you had one drop of black blood (even though you might look white). Theoretically, you can be 1/4, 1/8, ... , etc. black and look totally white. I think it is even possible for someone who is 1/2 black to look totally white. I suppose that now blood matters less than skin.

Rumor has it that there is a "white" girl at my school on a black scholarship. Go figure.

People would probably like to think that affirmative action is for the decendants of slaves, but the reality is that most of the beneficiaries of AA are immigrants from Africa and the West Indies. Their only connection to the black Americans that have been here for generations is the color of their skin. Do these people have more connection to the black community than you? Discuss amongst yourselves.

You don't claim URM status. You just check the little boxes that identify your Race. As in check all those that apply:

___White
___Black
___Hispanic
___Asian

You can check more than one box if more than one applies. There is no thought involved at all.

i61164 said:

People would probably like to think that affirmative action is for the decendants of slaves, but the reality is that most of the beneficiaries of AA are immigrants from Africa and the West Indies.

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Where did you find this info?

eastsidaz said:

I'm gonna go against the grain and say go ahead and try it. Honestly, if any adcom has the gall to question you on it, you can explain your situation and probably embarrass them for asking. The way in which you were raised and things you've experienced have likely affected you in such a way to make you someone who black patients WOULD be comfortable with as their doctor. It's also awesome that you're willing to be iconoclastic; what you're doing is a great yet passive ways of pointing out what's wrong with the system.

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I don't think adcoms would be embarrassed confronting the OP; he still doesn't fit the bill.

The definition according to AAMC:

"Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

The OP is white. White people are well-represented in the US population. The OP has seemingly faced many hardships, though, and I think he would beyond a doubt qualify as disadvantaged.

OP, do you claim that you are black when you apply for jobs? If so, how have people responded to that? If they react how I think they would react, I don't think adcoms would be any different. I think they would ask if you are Puerto-Rican before they would make any connection to you being black. But I think they would be put off if you said you were black, and may not necessarily respond how you would like them to. Just be careful, because it could backfire.

willthatsall said:

I'm not saying this isn't true, but what's the likelihood of a poor family adopting a 2 year old child when they either already had children of their own or were going to in the near future. And it just so happens that this particular couple wanted to adopt a white baby so the child could one day question affirmative action.

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True true. I was confused by that too, when I read his initial post. But I'm still undecided whether they are a troll or real.

gujuDoc said:

True true. I was confused by that too, when I read his initial post. But I'm still undecided whether they are a troll or real.

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I'm with you, guju. Although, this has got to be one of my all-time favorite troll posts if it is.

You are not URM nor should you mark it on your application. in case your story is true, this sounds like something that belongs in your personal statement. It will make you stand out for sure.

skypilot said:

You don't claim URM status. You just check the little boxes that identify your Race. As in check all those that apply:

___White
___Black
___Hispanic
___Asian

You can check more than one box if more than one applies. There is no thought involved at all.

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Why not check both white and black? That might be your best option, and seemingly the most legitimate thing to do.

I cant believe people are advising the OP to actually say they are an URM.

I think your life experience makes you unique and that sort of thing will make you stand out. You don't have to put URM on your application. You should however use your application to explain your background and some of your views on life.

There is something about your background that makes you very different from the average white guy. I don't necessarily know how this has influenced your decision to go into medicine. But if it has, you should write about it. I have read a lot of personal statement and I can usually tell when someone really feels what they wrote down.

The disadvantaged section of AMCAS is one section that has been grossly under estimated by med school applicants.

As for who has been the biggest benefactor of Affirmative Action..........well, that's a discussion for another thread.

I am Nigerian American and I can tell you that I know all about taking advantage of resources. It would be stupid not to. The question is....what advantage?

URM is a racial classification, simple as that. You are not black. It doesn't matter what color your family is, or where you were raised. You simply aren't URM. If that's confusing to you, it's because you don't properly understand the term. As others have said, you may qualify as disadvantaged.

MarzMD said:

I cant believe people are advising the OP to actually say they are an URM.

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Oh did people do that?? As I said before if this person is sincere, then disadvantaged not URM will do. But I am still undecided because his initial post seems to make no sense.

gujuDoc said:

Oh did people do that?? As I said before if this person is sincere, then disadvantaged not URM will do. But I am still undecided because his initial post seems to make no sense.

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Seemed like one of those "trying to make a point" posts, but who knows. And yes, a couple of posters did tell them to go for it.

It seems the OP has gone missing....must have just been a long tale.

I've been lurking, but just wanted to say that regardless of whether or OP is a troll or not, this IS a real situation. My undergrad gave a scholarship for african-americans to a white guy who was raised in a black family, black community, etc. who considered himself to be black. Now, they weren't too happy when they saw him and he was white, so that's their position on it. But whatever your opinion, it is a real situation for some. I think it brings up some great issues. A lot of you are saying the OP shouldn't label himself as a URM b/c although he has the family and experience, he doesn't have the skin color and is thus missing an essential part of the URM experience. My question to y'all is then what about people are 100% URM (by blood) who simply look white, or people who are 1/2 URM who can pass as white? Are they not URM either b/c it's skin color that forms the essential URM experience?

geekOCD said:

I've been lurking, but just wanted to say that regardless of whether or OP is a troll or not, this IS a real situation. My undergrad gave a scholarship for african-americans to a white guy who was raised in a black family, black community, etc. who considered himself to be black. Now, they weren't too happy when they saw him and he was white, so that's their position on it. But whatever your opinion, it is a real situation for some. I think it brings up some great issues. A lot of you are saying the OP shouldn't label himself as a URM b/c although he has the family and experience, he doesn't have the skin color and is thus missing an essential part of the URM experience. My question to y'all is then what about people are 100% URM (by blood) who simply look white, or people who are 1/2 URM who can pass as white? Are they not URM either b/c it's skin color that forms the essential URM experience?

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This isn't the same situation. This person was adopted. Also, upon questioning the half URM person would explain one of their parents were URM.

BrettBatchelor said:

This isn't the same situation. This person was adopted. Also, upon questioning the half URM person would explain one of their parents were URM.

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?? It is the same situation. Both were white children adopted by black families and raised in black communities.

I have a similar yet different story.
I'm latin, although anyone who looks at me on the street will think that I am white.
I speak the language and think and care about what is latino.
That showed in my interviews.
I was NEVER and I mean NEVER questioned in my interview because of the color of my skin, HOWEVER, I was questioned about latin topics and I sailed through them becuase I know them and because they are important to me.

So to the OP I say, call yourself anything you want BUT be ready to talk about it.
BE READY TO KNOW YOUR STUFF.

I think the problem arises when people call themselves this or that, but then when it comes time to it, they really don't know what they are talking about or what the daily life of someone of that ethnicity really is.

Honestly, I think your post may be bogus, but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.
YOU and ONLY you know what you are.
It's not someone on SDN that's gonna label you the way you want (or someone at the adcom committee).

However, on another hand, be ready to deal with one (or maybe even more) person who's gonna feel like you are not what you really are.

At the end, if I were you, I would claim your race (whatever that may be to you) and use this amazing life experience and upbringing in your PS.
It'll give you a great edge.

Good luck.

Ok, this is interesting though...

Let's give the OP the benefit of the doubt. Let's say hey are telling the truth about everything and are not a troll. He may have white skin, but are there protocols in place for those whose families are all URMs? Presumably, the adopted white kid has been brought up under the same cirumstances that create the difficult situations for URMs and give them that status at all.

If this person had been adopted by a Jewish couple but had not adopted the Jewish faith -- would there be any question if they claimed to be Jewish? (I use Jewish as an example...no particular reason.)

Would anyone have a problem with a black student with white parents claiming to be white? (I don't know why anyone would do this...giving up URM status? Why?) But, hypothetically, if there were...

Ok enough. I know this post has been all over the map. Sorry.

My question is...are there protocols in place for the situation presented by the OP ...while their skin may be white, they were raised as an African American. Interesting. Is your race based entirely on YOU or your parents as well (adopted or biological)?

geekOCD said:

?? It is the same situation. Both were white children adopted by black families and raised in black communities.

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I was referring to the half URM who could pass as white...Sorry for the confusion.

Secondly, I think most would say that skin color is an essential part of the URM debate as much of the discrimination is assessed based upon skin color.

This is ludacris. The OP nor anyone adopted by a URM family who is not a URM themself can claim URM status. You can claim disadvantaged status but the purpose of URM status is to increase the # of URM students, not students who grew up around URMs.

edit..........Im going to stay out of it on second thought.

TO THE OP:

In a parallel universe, imagine the following:

The year is 1948. You are applying to medical school. You are white but were adopted and raised by black parents. By claiming to be African American, you are putting yourself in harm's way for discrimination and possibly a full-on rejection. Do you still claim that you are African American on your application?

I'm guessing by your original post that you would claim WHITE because the implication in your post was that you were attempting to seek validation for URM classification in an effort to gain some sort of advantage. That presumption being true, I think your post is silly and meritless.

Cheers!

PS-- I grew up in Chinatown and love Chinese food. Can I claim Asian on my application?

happydays said:

Where did you find this info?

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Top Colleges Take More Blacks, but Which Ones?

i61164 said:

Top Colleges Take More Blacks, but Which Ones?

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Highly enlightening. Great article.

coldstream said:

Hey SDN People,
As the title suggests, most people would say that i'm white if you passed me on the street. However, nothing about me or my life is 'white,' and looking at what the purpose of the whole URM thing is, I think I should be able to claim URM status. Here's my story. I was adopted by a black couple when I was two years old, and I grew up with 2 black sisters and 1 black brother. We lived (still do) in a crappy predominantly black urban neighborhood, and I went to predeominantly crappy black urban schools. Gangs and violence and all sorts of b.s. were common. My parents made little money, and me and my siblings had to fight for everything we got (including getting to go to college, which neither of my parents did). I've had like a jillion jobs, and i feel like anything a "URM" has gone through I have too. The only thing that i haven't experienced is getting looked at like a shoplifter when i go to a shopping mall, which my brother experiences.

So, my question is, if I put URM on my file, and then go to interviews, will these medical admissions people get pissed and outright deny me?! I feel I have just as much right as anybody else to put URM on my file, and i'm willing to argue to the death about this. Peas

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My brotha...I feel for you

You are a URM...you rep an underrepresented minority of caucasians raised by black folks in the hood.

There is no URM designation on your actual file (just for MCAT stuff there is) and I would not even say that you are a URM. However, I would highlight the fact that you grew up as a disadvantaged child in a bad neighborhood. Even though you are technically not a URM I honestly think you would be as likely as any URM to go back into the community and work as an underpaid physician.

Play up your life to the fullest. Take every opportunity to somehow incorporate it into your application. But you have to do it in a way that is not so "in your face"!

Dude you grew up in a muuuuuch rougher environment than I.

good luck

MediMama23 said:

Before they do, though, I would like to comment that Eminem still sings and talks like a white guy. You could still tell him out from a crowd.

One person that fooled me, though, is Chamillionaire. I really thought he was Hispanic, until I saw the video . He SOUNDS sexy, though.

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that's paul wall you are thinking of...

theunderdog said:

i had a friend that did the same thing and claimed URM though he was 100% white. he got bombed at one of his interviews and the interviewer called him a liar to his face. seriously. im not making this up.

i think though you were raised in a black way, you are still white by color. i dont want to sound racist. but the best example to give is eminem.

eminem sings, talks, dresses, and acts like a black guy. but regardless, he is still white.

you can't apply for URM status, but i think you can qualify for disadvantaged.

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walking, talking, dressing black...... ...dont perpetuate the stereotype....rather you should acknowledge that walking, talking, and dressing like many afr. amer. dress is because of what dominates black culture

I should not be attacking you though b/c you are only stating what is now accepted in society as being the absolute truth.

my bad...but can you see where i am coming from as an afr. amer. male?

cya

bkwash said:

that's paul wall you are thinking of...

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Ummm, no, I know who I was thinking of, and Eminem fits my bill. He sounds white (hell, he IS white). He's tried to tone his voice down since he first started out, but he can't "escape it"; he still sounds not black. Paul Wall, Bubba Sparxx, Vanilla Ice, freestylers on the radio, whoever.

At least, that's me.

What are you nuts? You are caucasian. That is all.

I remember a while back a guy was on this forum and he was white, but adopted by a Japanese family. He spoke fluent Japanese, was aware of the culture, was raised by Japanese traditions, etc. That thread didn't quite come to a concensus on how he should claim his ethnicity, but at the end of the day when all is said and done, he was Caucasian.