Anyone listing their kids as an EC?

MiesVanDerMom said:

I'm including my past two years as a stay-at-home mom on my AMCAS EC section. Anyone else? I find it kind of funny; I'm not sure why. I guess because kids are so time consuming, it sounds silly to call them an extra-curricular. They're more like time-sucking parasites. I mean, my children are the light of my life...

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Hey, your kids are very important so be sure to put it down. It will give the adcoms something to better understand you.

I would probably do the same thing if I were in you're shoes.

put them in. It should be funny, will give them a break from all the snobby traditional ECs they get.

I wouldn't list 'kids' as an EC - I'd put that I am a parent (because being a parent is a job) and use the space to talk about my kids.

But it may be seen as an attempt to get pity points. PM LizzyM (an ADCOM poster) and double-check her opinion.

RxnMan said:

I wouldn't list 'kids' as an EC - I'd put that I am a parent (because beinag a parent is a job) and use the space to talk about my kids.

But it may be seen as an attempt to get pity points. PM LizzyM (an ADCOM poster) and double-check her opinion.

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Thanks for the tip.

I WASN'T going to put being a parent as an EC/activity, but I've been going back-and-forth about it. I have 15 other things to fill up the spaces with, but some of them are awards that I earned back in college, and things that don't really mean a lot (to me, at least) now. Being a parent is something I have put a lot more work, heart, and dedication into than the awards I earned in college, so I keep thinking that it is more a reflection of who I am now that some of the other more "traditional" stuff that I would be putting down, so I keep flip-flopping about whether to substitute that as an EC.

Those of you that are contemplating: Let me know what you all decide!

Thanks,

Jota

jota_jota said:

Thanks for the tip.

I WASN'T going to put being a parent as an EC/activity, but I've been going back-and-forth about it. I have 15 other things to fill up the spaces with, but some of them are awards that I earned back in college, and things that don't really mean a lot (to me, at least) now. Being a parent is something I have put a lot more work, heart, and dedication into than the awards I earned in college, so I keep thinking that it is more a reflection of who I am now that some of the other more "traditional" stuff that I would be putting down, so I keep flip-flopping about whether to substitute that as an EC.

Those of you that are contemplating: Let me know what you all decide!

Thanks,

Jota

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I think if you present it as a thing that you dedicate a lot of time, thought, and energy into, then go for it, even if you have 15 other things you can use (state facts, maybe how they are your support system). If you try to get pity points or something else, then I think it'll backfire big time. It is a big part of your life and you'd be misrepresenting yourself if you didn't list it.

By the way, think about condensing those awards. There are many ways to list several things at once (e.g. group all of your volunteer awards together with small 2-3 sentence descriptions next to each) so you can get the most bang for your buck.

I think you should include your role as a parent in your PS and make sure that your professors who are writing you LORs know about it. You can even show them pictures of the kids. It might help for them to realize what kind of load you are juggling and improve your letters.

vtucci said:

I think you should include your role as a parent in your PS and make sure that your professors who are writing you LORs know about it. You can even show them pictures of the kids. It might help for them to realize what kind of load you are juggling and improve your letters.

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Ugh, there's no room for it in the PS. I'm already 3X the "legal limit" in terms of length, so adding anything new isn't going to help.

Your idea about telling profs. about your kids is spot-on, though! Whether or not my profs. wrote me better letters because of it, I'll never know, but it definitely made it a lot easier to get to know my professors/make small talk with some of them (i.e. the ones that also had kids.)

Shall I put our three dogs too?

It's pretty much like having 3 two year olds that never grow up.

vtucci said:

I think you should include your role as a parent in your PS and make sure that your professors who are writing you LORs know about it. You can even show them pictures of the kids. It might help for them to realize what kind of load you are juggling and improve your letters.

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I agree with this idea. Calling your kids an EC kind of objectifies them, doesn't it? And if you're a stay-at-home parent, childcare isn't really an EC for you anyway. It's the main focus of your life, and it deserves more than just a little blurb along with your shadowing and candystriping activities. I don't know, maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it deserves, but it just doesn't sit right with me to call caring for one's own children an EC.

QofQuimica said:

I agree with this idea. Calling your kids an EC kind of objectifies them, doesn't it? And if you're a stay-at-home parent, childcare isn't really an EC for you anyway. It's the main focus of your life, and it deserves more than just a little blurb along with your shadowing and candystriping activities. I don't know, maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it deserves, but it just doesn't sit right with me to call caring for one's own children an EC.

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EC = Extracurricular Activity = Something that you spend a significant amount of time doing when you are not in school. Frankly, I, personally, think that undertaking the responsibilities involved in caring for children requires qualities that are very relevant for being a doctor -- much more so than "President of Drama Club," or "I-Eta-Pi Fraternity" or "Future Biology Leaders of America" or lots of other things that people put down as ECs.

As far as semantics go, I agree, that you shouldn't call your kids an EC. As was discussed earlier, I think it is more appropriate to list being a parent as an EC. It is a non-school activity that one spends a great deal of time doing, and requires qualities that are relevant for being a doctor. PLUS, you have a MUCH GREATER chance of being thrown up on than in probably any clinical volunteer position, so that should count for something

Like I said before, personally, I am debating between "playing the game" and not listing it as an EC on my application, but make no mistake, being a parent IS a significant extracurricular activity.

Jota

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I am starting to agree that putting it in the EC section does trivialize being a parent. Of course I stand by all of my other assertions that it is much more relevant to one's potential as a doctor than lots of other ECs, but I can see how it trivializes one's role as a parent to list it next to all the other BS ECs that most people list.

QofQuimica said:

I agree with this idea. Calling your kids an EC kind of objectifies them, doesn't it? And if you're a stay-at-home parent, childcare isn't really an EC for you anyway. It's the main focus of your life, and it deserves more than just a little blurb along with your shadowing and candystriping activities. I don't know, maybe I'm making a bigger deal out of this than it deserves, but it just doesn't sit right with me to call caring for one's own children an EC.

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I'm with Q on this one. I'm five months into parenthood myself, and I understand why you might want to include it in your EC section, but it doesn't feel appropriate to me. Being a parent, while notable, is not on the same level as receiving commendations or awards at work/school. And while it's both time-consuming and immaterially rewarding, it's not really commensurate with volunteering at a hospital or shadowing a physician. You might find ample room or reason to mention your kids in your PS, or perhaps in a secondary essay.

Although I didn't list it on my primary application, I did list being a parent on my secondary to Hopkins. I ended up interviewing with an OB, and conversation about raising children and family actually ended up being a big part of the interview. At the same time I did have some interviewers at other schools where talk about my being a parent came up and they seemed to question whether I would be able to do med school with a family. So I guess it could go either way.

I would not put this as an EC, I have never heard of an applicant doing this. Adcoms are very conservative...err on the side of conservative versus being "funny or cute"

jota_jota said:

EC = Extracurricular Activity = Something that you spend a significant amount of time doing when you are not in school. Frankly, I, personally, think that undertaking the responsibilities involved in caring for children requires qualities that are very relevant for being a doctor -- much more so than "President of Drama Club," or "I-Eta-Pi Fraternity" or "Future Biology Leaders of America" or lots of other things that people put down as ECs.

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Just to be clear, I was NOT suggesting that caring for one's children is not a relevant activity for becoming a physician. I agree with what you said about the qualities of a good parent carrying over to helping you develop the qualities of a good physician. I just don't think parenting should be an EC, maybe because it's TOO important. What I'm trying to say in general is that I think whatever really matters to you and takes up the bulk of your energy and effort belongs in your PS. Put the drama club and biology leaders stuff as ECs. But kids, and other things that are near and dear to your heart, should be woven in the PS, not relegated to an EC box with no contextual explanation.

Interesting topic. I never even thought about mentioning my kids in the EC section. It does seem pertinent, however because they are the reason I don't have a lot more volunteer/clinical experiences. As a SAHM, I have to arrange for childcare anytime I leave the house for that stuff.

I did mention my kids and being a SAHM for the past almost three years in my personal statement. I felt like I needed to have a little bit of a timeline and show that I have been working very hard for the past three years - even if it doesn't look like it on my application (classes only part-time and not enough volunteering to come even close to filling up the rest of that time).

I'll probably just stick with the brief mention of being a SAHM in my personal statement.

Although folks with kids do have a harder time getting in pertinent EC's for medical school like let's say some folks w/o family....the truth of the matter is that many non-trads with families *still* make time to somehow get some relevant EC's. You do NOT have to fill EVERY block of EC available space folks! you should also LUMP together EC's like honors/awards on ONE block. Anything that is somewhat "similar" lump into ONE. The last thing adcoms want to do is go over 15 EC's that are the same thing yet were not grouped together. This makes it look like you are trying to "beef" up your EC section. Anyhow do whatever but putting parenting on EC is a nono IMHO.

efex101 said:

Although folks with kids do have a harder time getting in pertinent EC's for medical school like let's say some folks w/o family....the truth of the matter is that many non-trads with families *still* make time to somehow get some relevant EC's. You do NOT have to fill EVERY block of EC available space folks! you should also LUMP together EC's like honors/awards on ONE block. Anything that is somewhat "similar" lump into ONE. The last thing adcoms want to do is go over 15 EC's that are the same thing yet were not grouped together. This makes it look like you are trying to "beef" up your EC section. Anyhow do whatever but putting parenting on EC is a nono IMHO.

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If this was directed at me - I do have a significant number of relevant EC's - just not even close to as many I as would have if I didn't have my kids to take care of. That's all I was saying.

I am a single father of two boys (2 & 4), and I have them the majority of the time, so they are in my personal statement, and if the issue of my lack of EC's comes up in an interview, I absolutely plan on bringing up the time constraints of raising two boys on my own, while in school and working. But I did not think of putting parenthood down as an EC....good idea, but not sure if I would do it or not

I would not put kids as an EC. You do not need to justify a gap in your history; they will ask you if they want to know.

Faculty generally expect you to integrate your family and med school life without special accommodations; listing family as an EC implies that it's a lot of extra work for you. I'm sure it is, but you do not want to imply that you will not be able to keep up with other students because of your family responsibilities.

I personally don't see a problem with putting SAHM on the employment portion - it IS a job.

However, with the EC's, if you did anything regularly with your kids, such as story hour at library, soccer mom, etc. and were INVOLVED in it, i.e., helped set-up, collaborated, leader, etc. THEN I would put it as an EC. Many non-trads have kids, but they are not activities, they are people. EC's are activities or groups you are involved in OUTSIDE your work/family. Anything you do with your kids at home would be considered part of the job, IMO.

I don't have kids, but I have a husband (which should count as like 3 kids in one!!!!!!! ). I am involved with his rugby club as an acting president of their booster club, so I will use that as an EC. I've been doing it for 3 years now. If you can apply something like that to your family, you get the idea of what I mean.

I hear you, though. As an SLP I see kids 0-3 in their homes everyday and I am VERY impressed with SAHMs. They deserves a lot more respect than they get!

MeowMix said:

Faculty generally expect you to integrate your family and med school life without special accommodations; listing family as an EC implies that it's a lot of extra work for you. I'm sure it is, but you do not want to imply that you will not be able to keep up with other students because of your family responsibilities.

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I don't think listing children as an EC would necessarily imply that you won't be able to keep up with other students in medical school. I won't be a stay-at-home mom anymore when I am going to medical school, so it won't be the same amount of work then as it is now.

I'm not specifically listing them. I do volunteer at my eldest son's school, so it comes out on it anyway. I guess I don't consider my status as a SAHM since I volunteer three days a week - so I don't really SAH! And I talk about my role as a wife and mom on my PS, so it is in there... just not as an EC.

I did put it on the TMDSAS app because that has a portion where you must account for every major thing you've done chronologically since HIGH SCHOOL (yes, tell me how painful THAT was to figure out?!?!) and one of my entries was something like "moved to North Carolina, full time stay at home mom).

Of course, now that I am listening to the oldest two fight over who is on whose side of the room right now, I suppose I should list it as "conflict resolution professional" - then again - that would imply I am going to actually fix the argument!

efex101 said:

I would not put this as an EC, I have never heard of an applicant doing this. Adcoms are very conservative...err on the side of conservative versus being "funny or cute"

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It also opens a slippery slope adcoms wouldn't want to encourage. Next you would see folks listing caring for sick family members and other family obligations. Where does it end?

I'm going to briefly mention my kids in my ps, but that's about it. It seems kind of awkward to call parenting an EC activity .

MiesVanDerMom said:

I quit my job to take care of my kids full time. How is this a slippery slope? I wouldn't expect my husband to put down he is a dad because it is something he does when he gets home from work. But for me, it is work. The section is called "work/activities". (not "ECs")

I find the idea that someone should list being an engineer or a nurse but not being a full time stay-at-home parent ... enraging. I'm not being cutesy or metaphorical when I say this is my job, my career. A paycheck does not make something valid labor. Motherhood is my profession and I'll be damned if I'm going to leave it off because our society has done such a good job of making the exploitation of women's labor seem natural.

(And if someone quits their job to care for a sick relative, and does it 100 hours a week, then I'd advise them to list that as well. )

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I strongly agree with you on this one. As I said in another post, I'm not a SAHM, but I work with them every day with my job. For those SAHMs that take it seriously, it is a very demanding job. Especially if you have more than one child, or if you have special needs children like MiesVanDerMom does.

Really, what's the different between an aide working in a facility taking care of a special-needs kid versus a mom with a special needs kid? The difference is a paycheck and that the aide gets to go home at the end of the day.

I don't see anything "cute" about being a SAHM, just like I don't see anything "cute" about being a daycare worker.

I say put it on your application. It's not going to be a reason to get passed over for an interview, and you can write about it in a secondary or discuss it in an interview (at the "is there anything else you'd like to tell us" portion). But, just like any other job, you'll have to explain why you decided to stop being a SAHM to pursue medicine.

Unfotunately the crazed soccer-mom barreling down the road at 80 mph in her Ford Excursion is the picture we have for SAHMs, but it's just NOT the case for most.

Good point Miesvandermom. Being a stay-at-home mom takes up more of my time than *any* job I've ever had!

I'm not putting it in the EC/work section because I mention it in my personal statement. However, now I think I would put it in the work section if it wasn't in my PS.

MiesVanDerMom said:

I quit my job to take care of my kids full time. How is this a slippery slope? I wouldn't expect my husband to put down he is a dad because it is something he does when he gets home from work. But for me, it is work. The section is called "work/activities". (not "ECs")

I find the idea that someone should list being an engineer or a nurse but not being a full time stay-at-home parent ... enraging. I'm not being cutesy or metaphorical when I say this is my job, my career. A paycheck does not make something valid labor. Motherhood is my profession and I'll be damned if I'm going to leave it off because our society has done such a good job of making the exploitation of women's labor seem natural.

(And if someone quits their job to care for a sick relative, and does it 100 hours a week, then I'd advise them to list that as well. )

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It's not an issue of how much time it takes or how important it is. It's an issue of whether it is something one would generally consider an extra curricular activity. The application is not the place to take a position as to how important being a homemaker is, or to make social policy. Work your family stuff into your PS, interview or other essay. But I think it's a mistake to start labelling things as ECs that most (in my opinion) wouldn't consider to fit in that section. (And lots of non-primary care-giver parents still spend more time with their kids than they do, say, shadowing.)

The job I took after my post-bacc year was helping to pay the bills, but my wife (who stayed in the industry that I left for medicine) makes much more, so I cut my schedule and worked part-time for two months after her maternity leave came to an end. Two months after that, I quit for good and am now a "SAHD" until school starts. We're having to pay for daycare soon, since waitlists are the norm and we were lucky to find a spot, but I don't think we'll use much of it until August. My wife hates that she has to work, by the way, and that was not a small obstacle to this whole medicine thing for me.

Anyway, I understand what it means to be a full time parent. Despite how simple it may seem to an outsider, even to me at times, I'm constantly surprised at how drained I feel by the end of the day. You don't get lunch or bathroom breaks on a whim, and you don't get to leave when the whistle blows at 5. It's definitely work and I'm proud of what I do.

At the same time, I would not personally compare parenting to being employed by a company or working for oneself. Having spent time as both a full time employee in a large company and a full time parent, I find the two activities to be in very different strata. One is not more important than the other, but one is considered a career and the other generally is not. That's not a value judgement.

The thing is, of course, that you might want to include it in your AMCAS application in order to explain what you have been doing for that period of time. I would be more comfortable putting it into your personal statement, as it seems that parenthood has shaped a lot of your motivations to become a physician; however, if you think it's more appropriate in work/activities, no one is stopping you. I have no idea what adcoms would think of it either way, nor does almost anyone else reading this thread.

MiesVanDerMom said:

Haha, good point. It's the visually impaired leading the visually impaired...

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Don't forget, SDN is a free place for advice from anonymous posters all over the world. You get what you pay for.

I'd mention the kiddos in your PS. It also can give your GPA a mental boost because many adcoms look more favorably on someone with kids at home they take care of and still have a 3.6, compared to someone with a 3.9 and no obligations in real life.

High grades in college are not hard when you have nothing else to do.

Good luck,
Johnny

I am mentioning my daughter in my PS and used the fact that I am a parent, primarily responsible for my child, as an indication of character traits essential for a physician...blah blah blah... If you can't fit your parenting role into your personal statement I don't see a problem working it in as a work/activity if it is your primary job. It is important information about who you are and it should be present somewhere in you AMCAS.

MiesVanDerMom said:

I quit my job to take care of my kids full time...

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In response to MiesVanDerMom's post, I'd like to add that I have the utmost respect for SAHMs, which includes my wife. She has also been intimately involved in her mom's medical care for all of our married life, from picking up and sorting my mother-in-law's many medicines when she was ambulatory, to running to her apartment on many nighttime occasions (despite having six other siblings) to clean up diahrrea and vomit, to keeping her in our home on 2 different 6-month stints, to cleaning her and feeding her in her nursing home room, as she is doing now. All of that in addition to raising 3 children, and living through the death of our teenage son. I understand MVDM's indignation....SAHMs don't really get much respect - except from those of us married to one.

Sorry to hijack the thread. Please continue...

You are awesome old_guy. As another SAHM on this board, I really needed to hear that today.

Thank you!