What is the advantge to being an URM when applying?

Merissa87 said:

I hear people saying that if you are a URM, you will get in. Is it that they don't judge URM's as hard as they do other races? do they have sympathy on us or something? I dont think that just b/c I am a URM female, I will have any easier time getting into medical school. It seems like It would be harder. What is this all about?

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if you were so inclined to do a search of this site, you would see that this topic has beaten to its bloody death and beyond.

this is just pure lazy.

You have to understand, this topic is notorius for leading into 10 page arguments and debates on the merits of affirmative action around here. It isn't right but that's the way it is. I'm an URM so if your question is sincere, please feel free to PM me.

Merissa87 said:

OK GregMD.
I asked a simple question. I did not ask for your sarcastic ass comment. I don't get on this website often but i thought it was a place to ask questions. You could have kindly told me just so search for it. Instead of making a rude comment coming straight from your ass.

Thanks!

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look at it this way - next time you wont be quite so ignorant in posting redundant, beaten to death threads.

you're welcome.

NubianPrincess said:

You have to understand, this topic is notorius for leading into 10 page arguments and debates on the merits of affirmative action around here. It isn't right but that's the way it is. I'm an URM so if your question is sincere, please feel free to PM me.

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Also, probably 2/3 of all URM threads are started by trolls looking to get people rilled up, rather than by people who genuinely need help/advice on the matter. So regular posters come into these threads with a skeptical attitude.

I think what he means is look at some earlier posts to get an idea. There are a lot of posts that are locked because this becomes a heated debate. Some also make this agrument based on MDapps. I believe you can search for students accepted or interviewing at specific schools (or all schools) based on race. According to MDapps, there is not a very big overall difference in acceptances based on African American URM status when compared to caucasian status:

Caucasian accepted (including incomplete applications and not selecting a school or year): "2700 results in set, 30.9 average MCAT, 3.60 average GPA. Search took 5.51 seconds."

African American accepted (including incomplete applications and not selecting a school or year): "
108 results in set, 30.4 average MCAT, 3.59 average GPA. Search took 0.97 seconds."

It is also worth noting that the numbers in each pool of applicants (108 to 2700) is quite different. Additionally, mdapps it seems that sometimes mdapps stats are somewhat inflated as they are often well above the averages that schools report on their websites and to US News.

That said, according to AAMC, here are the statistics (means) for 2005:

Caucasian matriculants : 10.1V 10.2P 10.6B; 3.61 BCMP; 3.66 total GPA; 10,295 matriculants total

African American matriculants : 8.2V 8.2P 8.8B; 3.23 BCMP; 3.36 total GPA; 1,068 matriculants total

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2005/mcatgparaceeth.htm

This is where the dispute comes from, however, applicants are certainly more than just numbers. It sounds like you have a lot to talk about in terms of activities, so good luck to you.

Wow, 3.2 and 25 average mcat.

gregMD said:

if you were so inclined to do a search of this site, you would see that this topic has beaten to its bloody death and beyond.

this is just pure lazy.

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If someone is BRAND new to SDN, how are they to know. Not cool.

Merissa87 said:

I dont think that just b/c I am a URM female, I will have any easier time getting into medical school. It seems like It would be harder.

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tifa said:

If someone is BRAND new to SDN, how are they to know. Not cool.

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Take that thumb, turn it around and sit on it...

had this person joined YESTERDAY and had 0+ posts, i wouldn't have been so overt - but this person didn't just join yesterday, they joined in March, and has probably been lurking around for a while.

no excuses.

WIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Merissa87 said:

I hear people saying that if you are a URM, you will get in. Is it that they don't judge URM's as hard as they do other races? do they have sympathy on us or something? I dont think that just b/c I am a URM female, I will have any easier time getting into medical school. It seems like It would be harder. What is this all about?

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Do you not understand how affirmative action works? being a URM female you're pretty much guaranteed in to all low-tiers and quite a few mid-tiers as long as your numbers are average. It's the golden ticket of past-societal oppresion turned guilt-ridden justice seeking

Comon, look at her profile...unless the entire thing is fake, and I dont know why this person would go so far just to ask a question, this girl really is new-ish and wants to know more. Perhaps she doesnt know that this has even been discussed before. I know this debate really has been beaten, but ease up a little.

Kitra101 said:

Comon, look at her profile...unless the entire thing is fake, and I dont know why this person would go so far just to ask a question, this girl really is new-ish and wants to know more. Perhaps she doesnt know that this has even been discussed before. I know this debate really has been beaten, but ease up a little.

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I guess if someone is new to forum culture they might not know the taboo of reposting and not searching. Understandable.

kevster2001 said:

Do you not understand how affirmative action works? being a URM female you're pretty much guaranteed in to all low-tiers and quite a few mid-tiers as long as your numbers are average. It's the golden ticket of past-societal oppresion turned guilt-ridden justice seeking

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and here we go.

thanks OP.

2 things...

1. gregmd, you are being a dick.

2. and being a female URM is about the best thing you could ever have going as an applicant. it means that every school will at very least consider you, and a good number will accept you even if you have lower numbers. every application is different, but if you and a male non-urm from your school were to have the same exact resume and applied to the same schools...you can be assured that you will get into many more of the schools than him. though mdapps is not a statistically representative sample, if you check out the profiles of people who were accepted with MCATs from 26 all the way down to 18, they will invariably be urms.

I could see what the OP is talking about though. If a school wanted to maximize diversity, then the school would accept far more URM males than females. I did not see a single URM male on my interviews, and I saw several URM females. The ratio of URM males to females is 1:3 in some of the classes I visited. So if a school wanted a balance, then it would be harder for a URM female to gain acceptance, but that is only if she is comparing URM females and URM males - not URM females and the general applicant pool.

I have a female URM friend who is applying to med school this year and claims that while the competition between her and the white male isn't quite as fierce, competition between URMs is just as strong as competition between to white applicants. She says she has a lot of competition, and isn't confident of getting in. She is a very intelligent girl who I believe would make a great doctor, but she is a native African (green card holder) and (obviously) English is her second language. She speaks very well, but has a difficult time with timed tests. I believe this is an excellent example of why URMS are let in with lower MCATs. In her case, intelligence and ability to handle concepts aren't being tested, rather her English skills are being tested. So... when we compare URM stats with non URM stats and say that it is "easier" to get in as an URM, we may not be seeing the whole picture.

OP, you will find a long discussion of the URM topic which should answer your questions here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=245260

If you or anyone else reading has more to say on the topic, please make your posts in the already existing thread.

Thank you!

.......and what's to stop a racist/bigot from making a profile claiming to be a urm on mdapplicants.com. Your post about a urm female with the same stat as a non urm white male is unfounded. Applicants in medical school are never the same. Perhaps you fail to see the larger picture. Anyway, my advice to the OP is to work hard, score well and sell yourself the right way.

By the way, I would say males (of most urm groups) are more coveted usually. While the numbers are still not as high as they should be, you are more likely to run into urm females at any medical schools. The males are the harder ones to get and as such are more coveted. Most female urms that I know have outstanding numbers/qualities.

and oh....the best thing you can have going for you is a great personality, good scores and lots of luck. The rejection rate for urm is just as high (if not a little higher than that of other applicants). Being a black female and nothing else WILL NOT get you into medical school. Being a good applicant (period) will get you in. Now it is up to Adcom to define what's a good applicant. Good luck!

Also, you will do better to ask an adcom or a black female (or urm) for advice about applying to med school. There is a lot of speculation by non urms on this site and even them could use a little schooling abou this issue.
As for general advice about applying, most newly accepted students can help out!

NotAnMD said:

2 things...

1. gregmd, you are being a dick.

2. and being a female URM is about the best thing you could ever have going as an applicant. it means that every school will at very least consider you, and a good number will accept you even if you have lower numbers. every application is different, but if you and a male non-urm from your school were to have the same exact resume and applied to the same schools...you can be assured that you will get into many more of the schools than him. though mdapps is not a statistically representative sample, if you check out the profiles of people who were accepted with MCATs from 26 all the way down to 18, they will invariably be urms.

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Merissa87 said:

I hear people saying that if you are a URM, you will get in. Is it that they don't judge URM's as hard as they do other races? do they have sympathy on us or something? I dont think that just b/c I am a URM female, I will have any easier time getting into medical school. It seems like It would be harder. What is this all about?

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Dont worry about how easily you will be judged or what your URM status can and cant do for you. Keep improving your gpa and do your best on the MCAT. Let the adcoms decide how they want to consider your URM status when you submit your apps. No they wont accept applicants JUST bc they are URMs, you have to have clinical experience (seems like you do) and other redeeming qualities that all other applicants must have.... but if you look at URM matriculants' statistical averages, they are slightly lower so take from that what you will....and PLEASE just let this thread die

infiniti said:

and even them could use a little schooling

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we all could use a lot more schooling

The proportion of URM applicants who matriculate is lower than the proportion of non-URM applicants who matricute. Ergo, it is "harder" to get in to medical school if you are an URM (you are less likely to be admitted if you are in the URM pool).

According to AAMC stats for 2004 (the most recent yr I have handy), 17.9% of applicants were neither White nor Asian. This "neither White nor Asian" group accounted for 15% of all matriculants. Ergo, URM are not taking seats disporportionate to their representation in the pool of applicants.

Is there an advantage to being a URM? The numbers don't bear it out.

infiniti said:

....
By the way, I would say males (of most urm groups) are more coveted usually. While the numbers are still not as high as they should be, you are more likely to run into urm females at any medical schools. The males are the harder ones to get and as such are more coveted.

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Women outnumber men in colleges these days and the disportion is greatest among minorities. It gets hard to recruit male URM applicants when there are so few who have the minimum requirement: a college degree.

Here's my two cents. The way it has worked for me and a few of my friends, being an URM (especially male) helps you a whole lot when applying to lower ranked schools. In other words, state schools, the historically black medical schools, etc. However, the higher you get on the list of schools (top 20, top 30), the less it helps you significantly. Like, maybe the average MCAT for URM would be 1 or 2 points below the school's average and GPA .1 or something if anything below. I think they might weigh the MCAT a little less, but it's still weighed heavily and all the URM I know who got into Vandy have GPA's around the school's average, includinge me....who did not get into Vandy .

As an international applicant will being an URM help or is it only considered for Americans??

noelleruckman said:

I believe this is an excellent example of why URMS are let in with lower MCATs. In her case, intelligence and ability to handle concepts aren't being tested, rather her English skills are being tested. So... when we compare URM stats with non URM stats and say that it is "easier" to get in as an URM, we may not be seeing the whole picture.

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I believe that's a horrible example. Yes there are a fair amount of African students who learned english as a 2nd language (we have a number in our class and they're great!) but who's the largest group of non-english speakers applying for medical school? I bet dollars to donuts its Asians and Indians. No love there...

velo said:

I believe that's a horrible example. Yes there are a fair amount of African students who learned english as a 2nd language (we have a number in our class and they're great!) but who's the largest group of non-english speakers applying for medical school? I bet dollars to donuts its Asians and Indians. No love there...

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Bingo. Either way that argument would fit better for internationals than for URMs living in the US, especially african-americans, since they aren't immigrants.

If you are a URM and want to be benefitted from AA, then admit that you are not equal to and inferior to other races not considered subjects to AA.
If you want to be treated equal to other races, then help people pass the bill to ban the reverse race discriminating garbage AA sh**.

Heated disputes on the matter are caused by brainless URMs who want to be treated equal to other races, and yet want to take advantage of rules like AA which are not equally applied to all races.

Aaaaaaand closing.