3-year DO + 3-year residency = Family Medicine Doctor

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It's A Great Idea.
They Have Just Removed Vacations So The Actual Content Is The Same. If This Was A West Coast Program I Would Go.....
 
emedpa said:
It's A Great Idea.
They Have Just Removed Vacations So The Actual Content Is The Same. If This Was A West Coast Program I Would Go.....
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By the sound of it, the program "limits" you to becoming family physician. I wonder if you graduated from this program and then wanted to go into another area of medicine, if it would be possible. As I understand it, you pretty much sign up for 3 years of DO and 3 years fam prac residency. If after completing these six years, a graduate of this program has a "change of heart," can they apply for another residency?

A friend of mine was a fam prac doc for 20 years, and then decided to pursue occupational medicine. He is currently in his last year of an occ med residency. I wonder if this would be possible with the 3-year DO degree.
 
There used to be a few MD programs that had this option. A TN school I believe. Personally I don't like the idea but then again I am not a fan of LECOM or reducing the length of any program unless you have previous healthcare experience ie PA NP. It seems as though they reduce what would amount to 4th year rotations and electives. People present mixed feelings about 4th year but I guess we now know how valuable LECOM believes they are for a family physician.
 
PublicHealth said:
By the sound of it, the program "limits" you to becoming family physician. I wonder if you graduated from this program and then wanted to go into another area of medicine, if it would be possible. As I understand it, you pretty much sign up for 3 years of DO and 3 years fam prac residency. If after completing these six years, a graduate of this program has a "change of heart," can they apply for another residency?

A friend of mine was a fam prac doc for 20 years, and then decided to pursue occupational medicine. He is currently in his last year of an occ med residency. I wonder if this would be possible with the 3-year DO degree.
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I think you pretty much have to do their residency. They fill the slots that previously went unfilled. Even if you wanted to do another residency, I would think any residency that is at least marginally competitive would frown upon a 3 year physician in their program.
 
At first glance, I think it's a bad idea.

As medicine becomes increasingly complicated, we should be increasing the duration of education for physicians (especially FM docs), not decreasing it.
 
Is LECOM going to make you sign a legally binding contract forcing you to go into FP?

Because otherwise, this program will crash and burn. Everybody will use it as a shortcut to surgery, radiology, or dermatology.

I just dont see the school enforcing this. Sure, they might encourage these people to do FP, but what are they going to do to actaully FORCE them into it?
 
that is interesting but everyone seems to say that you dont know what speciality you are going to go in until your 3rd or 4th year
 
Lee Burnett said:
At first glance, I think it's a bad idea.

As medicine becomes increasingly complicated, we should be increasing the duration of education for physicians (especially FM docs), not decreasing it.
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Agreed.

As long as the changes take place after I'm done with residency in 2010. 🙂
 
Calidoc2b said:
that is interesting but everyone seems to say that you dont know what speciality you are going to go in until your 3rd or 4th year
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You can't really know what you want to do for the rest of your life until you've experienced 3rd year - and even then you still are pretty clueless about what a specialty entails. I'd avoid any program (loan program or med school program) that requires you to do X specialty.
 
PublicHealth said:
A friend of mine was a fam prac doc for 20 years, and then decided to pursue occupational medicine. He is currently in his last year of an occ med residency. I wonder if this would be possible with the 3-year DO degree.
Click to expand...

Isn't occupational medicine a fellowship in FM?
 
I wouldn't do it.

I agree that if anything training should remain the same if not increase. I would never trade my 4th year away for an Intern year. You miss out on so much fun. Educational experience of 4th year is what you make of it. If you're FP bound and you should pick electives that either you'll never do again ever, will help you when you get to residency, or will be total blow offs. I think there's some value in all 3 of those types of electives, enough to not sacrifice. As a student on 4th year electives, all you have to focus on is learning, if you want to. You don't work as hard as interns do. Why not take advantage of that? You already have less medicine, less pedi, less OB, less ortho, less procedures, less everything than your specialist colleagues and even your FP colleagues.

I would say though that a program like this is would be most appropriate for the 30- or 40-something y/o med student who did a career switch. Has a spouse, 2-3 children to support. Mortgage. Worked hard throughout med school. Knows what their strengths/weaknesses are. Knows that they always wanted to do FP. Who all through med school was like "I just want to get in and get out". Motivated self-learner. Who has friends in med school, but never got into the 20-something social scene. I think those kind of students would benefit more from 6 years of training.
 
Lee Burnett said:
At first glance, I think it's a bad idea.

As medicine becomes increasingly complicated, we should be increasing the duration of education for physicians (especially FM docs), not decreasing it.
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But increasing the duration of education just isn't financially feasible. The reason fewer and fewer people go into family medicine is because it is the lowest paid specialty of all medical fields. (While the debt accrued during school is the same for a FP as for a neurosurgeon).

For older, nontraditional students, this is a great option because it minimizes cost of education. Sure, if you're a 26 yo grad, you have no problem paying off $200K+ over your career. But if you are a 40+ yo grad, the cost of repaying student loans is much more daunting. This option isn't right for most, but there is a place for it.
 
The school in TN is East TN State University. The fourth year was done concurrent with internship. The applicants had to be in the top half of the class and were scrutinized for their clinical skills. I trained at this program (one of three FM ETSU programs). My second year, two of the three programs had the top two students in their class in this track. There is usually a steep learning curve, but they usually caught up and did well because the potential was there and they were ahead of their piers clinically anyway.

A lot of students don't push themselves in the fourth year anyway and the fourth year is usually shorter in time so you are not missing that clinical experience quite as much. I pushed myself in my fourth year (extra ICU, OB, ER) and felt it was a good thing and put me very comfortably into internship. That being said, I don't think ETSU has the program anymore.
 
I appreciate the 40+ argument, but I'd counter that they should look at another field. If I were to go into medicine at my age, I'd be a PA. The income is great and the educational debt is half.

But this 6-year path still seems like a bad idea to me. I wouldn't buy into it until I could see comparisons of COMLEX and FM board scores between traditional and 'accelerated' programs.

BTW, FM is not the lowest paid specialty. It's just one of the lowest at the moment. 😀
 
I'm supprised no one has commented on the fact that LECOM was only approved for something like ~8 student slots next year, then ~10 the next year, ~15 the following year, etc. For a program designed to increase the number of FP physicians, this seems like a silly way of doing it if it's not open to a wider number of students. I read that you have to apply to the program and be interviewed, etc. I think the article said they would begin interviews after the first 12 weeks of Anotomy for current students, etc. Anyway, it would have been a great idea if it were not so limiting.
 
Sundarban1 said:
I'm supprised no one has commented on the fact that LECOM was only approved for something like ~8 student slots next year, then ~10 the next year, ~15 the following year, etc. For a program designed to increase the number of FP physicians, this seems like a silly way of doing it if it's not open to a wider number of students. I read that you have to apply to the program and be interviewed, etc. I think the article said they would begin interviews after the first 12 weeks of Anotomy for current students, etc. Anyway, it would have been a great idea if it were not so limiting.
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Good point. I'm assuming that they're taking it slow to see how it works out, troubleshoot accordingly, and then evaluate whether they want to expand the program. Makes sense to me.

Side note: My collar is down.
 
a 3 year program directed at those who already have poor MCAT and GPA scores - clearly shows that FP sits between a PA and a real doctor - another proud moment for osteopathic medicine.
 
sophiejane said:
okay, Kent and Lee...if this one doesn't earn him a "Banned for Trolling" distinction, I don't know what will...
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I took the time to read through the links and articles. A 3 year program isn't neccessarily a bad thing. For example, Miami U once had a 2 yr program for people with certain PhD's, and I think I've heard of a accel DO prog for foreign MD's - both ideas have their merits. But really - targeting those who's scores "exclude" them from being potentially excellent FP's. Isn't that another way of viewing PA's? Again, not trying to be inflammatory - there are plenty of excellent PA's who could have been equally excellent doctors if they had choosen to do so. It's just not the majority.

Anyway, what's trolling?

OK, yes the PA comment is out of line. My point being that I can see the merits of a 3 yr prog - but much like the progs that combine the 4th yr and intern year the target population should be the top end of the bell curve, not the bottom end. And, I would have though that the osteo community would be a little more sensitive to potential critisism. Makes you wonder what the real agenda is - oh, of course to increase FP's in rural areas, silly me - nothing to do with money and power.
 
George85 said:
Isn't that another way of viewing PA's? Again, not trying to be inflammatory - there are plenty of excellent PA's who could have been equally excellent doctors if they had choosen to do so. It's just not the majority.
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This thread has nothing to do with PAs. Please stay on-topic, or start a new thread in the Clinicians forum to discuss this. Thanks.
 
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