URM status

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bjorklund

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When you apply as an URM, are you just recognizing that you qualify as a minority applicant, or are you identifying yourself as belonging to that ethnicity? I ask because I'm 1/4 hispanic but have no hispanic features and a European last name and rarely experienced any of the hardships and stigmas with which many Mexican-Americans are faced. Its a bit of a dilemma because I don't want to feel like I'm abusing a system designed to assist those who do face discrimination but at the same time I'm in no clear violation of the rules. Has anyone else had to make a similar decision?

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This doesnt answer your question but you cant apply as an URM. If you check the box for your race the ADCOMs will decide if they see you as an URM. All you do is check a box if you want. Period.
 
Do you consider yourself Hispanic in your daily life? You should know what your own race and ethnicity is. The answer doesn't suddenly change because you're applying to med school. Just classify yourself as you would normally identify.

I don't understand why we have so many threads like this.
 
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Thundrstorm said:
Do you consider yourself Hispanic in your daily life? You should know what your own race and ethnicity is. The answer doesn't suddenly change because you're applying to med school. Just classify yourself as you would normally identify.

I don't understand why we have so many threads like this.
Its no secret that URMs receive discrete consideration for admissions (admitted at up to 4 times the rate of non-URM applicants) and its not as simple as you think.
http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/social/uc-med/uc-med.html
 
bjorklund said:
When you apply as an URM, are you just recognizing that you qualify as a minority applicant, or are you identifying yourself as belonging to that ethnicity? I ask because I'm 1/4 hispanic but have no hispanic features and a European last name and rarely experienced any of the hardships and stigmas with which many Mexican-Americans are faced. Its a bit of a dilemma because I don't want to feel like I'm abusing a system designed to assist those who do face discrimination but at the same time I'm in no clear violation of the rules. Has anyone else had to make a similar decision?


are you a troll?? Do you know this has been discussed ad nauseum?? Check whatever you want but, if you are precieved as being a fraud it will hurt you more than it helps...
 
bjorklund said:
Its no secret that URMs receive discrete consideration for admissions (admitted at up to 4 times the rate of non-URM applicants) and its not as simple as you think.
http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/social/uc-med/uc-med.html

Seeing things like these STILL happening makes me think racism will never end. How can you end racism all together by instituting racism in admissions policies. :(

I think people should be accepted on their merits and credentials, not on this sort of thing. But, no one cares what we think anyway. :oops:
 
oh....my....god

This is no drill people, its what we've always feared....the URM flame-war to end all URM flame wars!!!!! RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAAAAAY!!!!
 
Psycho Doctor said:
wow, that's even more pathetic than i thought
Pathetic? What is it with this righteous indignation? I'm not willing to step on somebody else to get where I want to be, but I'm wholly committed to medicine and I'd like to give myself every advantage within the guidelines. And to Newton, If you'd look at my profile I have <10 posts meaning I'm just an ignorant newbie not a troller.
 
another URM thread
when will it end!
when will it end!
 
bjorklund said:
When you apply as an URM, are you just recognizing that you qualify as a minority applicant, or are you identifying yourself as belonging to that ethnicity? I ask because I'm 1/4 hispanic but have no hispanic features and a European last name and rarely experienced any of the hardships and stigmas with which many Mexican-Americans are faced. Its a bit of a dilemma because I don't want to feel like I'm abusing a system designed to assist those who do face discrimination but at the same time I'm in no clear violation of the rules. Has anyone else had to make a similar decision?

what are hispanic features??

no true hispanic would say this...
 
Newton Bohr MD said:
what are hispanic features??
darker skin, hair, eyes - I, however, look like Jim Gaffigan
 
bjorklund said:
darker skin, hair, eyes - I, however, look like Jim Gaffigan

I hope you know that Hispanic ranges from black all the way to white... Just ask all the afro-Latinos and 10 percent of Mexico’s population ;)
 
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bjorklund said:
Pathetic? What is it with this righteous indignation? I'm not willing to step on somebody else to get where I want to be, but I'm wholly committed to medicine and I'd like to give myself every advantage within the guidelines. And to Newton, If you'd look at my profile I have <10 posts meaning I'm just an ignorant newbie not a troller.
i meant the statistics by which URMs are accepted, and we all know that includes people born to a certain race but who have all the luxuaries life can afford them
 
Listen, everyone has the wrong idea. I'm not looking for an argument, if you're offended (by what I'm not sure) then just move on. I just wanted to hear some other applicants' similar experiences. THAT'S ALL.
 
bjorklund said:
Pathetic? What is it with this righteous indignation? I'm not willing to step on somebody else to get where I want to be, but I'm wholly committed to medicine and I'd like to give myself every advantage within the guidelines. And to Newton, If you'd look at my profile I have <10 posts meaning I'm just an ignorant newbie not a troller.

I hope you can see why people would be angry at affirmative action. Imagine you worked hard to had better credentials than someone else, but they got in because of their gender/race/ethnicity etc...

There really is no point in these threads though, because as the man pointed out in his research study of California Medical Schools, even when the US Supreme Court ruled affirmative action to be unconsitutional, they just continued with it anyways.
 
bjorklund said:
Listen, everyone has the wrong idea. I'm not looking for an argument, if you're offended (by what I'm not sure) then just move on. I just wanted to hear some other applicants' similar experiences. THAT'S ALL.
you have to realize what a senstive issue this is, especially when competituon is so fierce. We all know URMs have a great advantage and when some use this advantage when they have had every priviledge, it pisses us hard working whites and asians off. We don't like spots being taken away from us when people use this status for their advantage when it is not what AA was originally intended for.
 
Psycho Doctor said:
i meant the statistics by which URMs are accepted, and we all know that includes people born to a certain race but who have all the luxuaries life can afford them

First, all the information he provided is data that is represents California BEFORE AA was canceled in 1996... Second, did you consider that URM’s have a high rate of acceptance because, URM’s are underrepresented in the application pool??

Finally, you have 7500+ posts!! I know you have said everything you want to about AA :laugh:
 
Dr.Andrews said:
Seeing things like these STILL happening makes me think racism will never end. How can you end racism all together by instituting racism in admissions policies. :(

I think people should be accepted on their merits and credentials, not on this sort of thing. But, no one cares what we think anyway. :oops:
:thumbup: :thumbup: i care; too bad i don't count :(
 
Newton Bohr MD said:
First, all the information he provided is data that is represents California BEFORE AA was canceled in 1996... Second, did you consider that URM’s have a high rate of acceptance because, URM’s are underrepresented in the application pool??

Finally, you have 7500+ posts!! I know you have said everything you want to about AA :laugh:
i actually rarely have posted on an AA thread; it may make up 10 of my posts
 
Psycho Doctor said:
:thumbup: :thumbup: i care; too bad i don't count :(

I care too, but I don't count either. :(

Let's sit here and comfort each other about how no one cares about what we think. :oops:
 
Newton Bohr MD said:
Second, did you consider that URM’s have a high rate of acceptance because, URM’s are underrepresented in the application pool??

Your point doesn't make logical sense. The data clearly showed that URMs were being favored over other candidates, even with lower credentials. Schools like Meharry, Howard and others still prove that this type of stuff exists today.

I think the best thing we can all do is not get worked up about it, because we can't change anything. :oops:
 
Dr.Andrews said:
I care too, but I don't count either. :(

Let's sit here and comfort each other about how no one cares about what we think. :oops:
ok, then here's a big cyber hug for you
 
Dr.Andrews said:
Your point doesn't make logical sense. The data clearly showed that URMs were being favored over other candidates, even with lower credentials. Schools like Meharry, Howard and others still prove that this type of stuff exists today.

I think the best thing we can all do is not get worked up about it, because we can't change anything. :oops:
whatever, I do not want to debate AA so I will let it go...

To the OP use the search function :cool:
 
two points:

1. referring to the "hispanic features": i am first generation mexican american, but everyone thinks i'm "white" until i tell them otherwise...

2. that study is around 15 years old. i think now there are URM's who work just as hard as the rest of the applicants (obviously, not all of them do, and not all of them deserve spots) i refused to be classified as an AA kid, so i worked my ass off to deserve a spot in med school just like everyone else. it kind of sucks though because everyone expects us to be dumb as ****, that's why they had AA. it's disheartening when everyone expects you to be stupid.
 
bjorklund said:
Its no secret that URMs receive discrete consideration for admissions (admitted at up to 4 times the rate of non-URM applicants) and its not as simple as you think.
http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/social/uc-med/uc-med.html

4 times the rate!? I thought the acceptance percent rate for URM is actually lower (but about equal) than that for whites. I know URM get in with lower scores, but not at a higher rate!
 
plainolerichie said:
4 times the rate!? I thought the acceptance percent rate for URM is actually lower (but about equal) than that for whites. I know URM get in with lower scores, but not at a higher rate!

overall it is lower but, it is higher at some schools
 
Bigots on SDN? Today must be opposite day!
 
Rafa said:
Bigots on SDN? Today must be opposite day!

Hate to butt in, but...do you really think being opposed to AA is bigotry? Seems like a cheap way to shoot down the opposition.

But I'm not getting in this one.
 
eastsidaz said:
Hate to butt in, but...do you really think being opposed to AA is bigotry? Seems like a cheap way to shoot down the opposition.

But I'm not getting in this one.

well, if you have read previous AA threads you would know exactly what he is talking about...
 
eastsidaz said:
Hate to butt in, but...do you really think being opposed to AA is bigotry? Seems like a cheap way to shoot down the opposition.

But I'm not getting in this one.

We've been through this before. :^) You don't have to be a bigot to be opposed to AA on SDN, but threads like these certainly bring such folks out of the woodwork.
 
you jerks highjacked my post to discuss AA and i want it back!!
 
bjorklund said:
you jerks highjacked my post to discuss AA and i want it back!!

if you have a tread and the letters URM are in the title it is an AA thread lol :laugh:
 
bjorklund said:
When you apply as an URM, are you just recognizing that you qualify as a minority applicant, or are you identifying yourself as belonging to that ethnicity? I ask because I'm 1/4 hispanic but have no hispanic features and a European last name and rarely experienced any of the hardships and stigmas with which many Mexican-Americans are faced. Its a bit of a dilemma because I don't want to feel like I'm abusing a system designed to assist those who do face discrimination but at the same time I'm in no clear violation of the rules. Has anyone else had to make a similar decision?

Well, back to your initial post, really it's your call. I mean, I think technically you are an URM and it will help you in the process (I dont know what the official rules state). If you sincerely are concerned with "taking advantage of the system" then you don't have to mention it. I won't hold it against you if you do (if you care about my opinion).
 
Don't take this the wrong way as we're all rooting for each other to get in on SDN...but I don't think 1/4 classifies much as URM. Don't kill me, just my 2 cents! :oops:
It is ok if you are 1/2 and still have a non-hispanic last name and look "white," but at a quarter hispanic there isn't much in your gene pool left. I don't know what ADCOMS would think about it, but they might see it as cheating since 1/4 is a small amount, and I fear they would get mad at you
:(
Really think it over! As other posters said, it could end up hurting you in the long run, but best of luck to you this cycle!!
 
Psycho Doctor said:
i meant the statistics by which URMs are accepted, and we all know that includes people born to a certain race but who have all the luxuaries life can afford them


it's not about growing up privileged. It is about the prospect of going to work in an underserved community. Don't confuse the policies used for undergrads with those used by med schools.
 
To the OP,

Short answer: don't check the box. It is unethical and you would be taking advantage of the system.

Long answer: if you can convince yourself over the next few months that you have a profound desire to care for the underserved, then by all means check it. As riceman04 suggests, then the box would be entirely meant for you. And by being 1/4 hispanic, you would be in a unique position to help those in your community. You could even volunteer at a free clinic this summer to prove your commitment (believe it or not lots of non-urm's, including myself, do it all the time).

riceman04 said:
It is about the prospect of going to work in an underserved community. Don't confuse the policies used for undergrads with those used by med schools.

This "dilemma" illustrates the complete lack of accountability in the current system. And I reject the idea that this is an isolated case. Applicants all across the country are faced with this same decision right now.
 
bjorklund said:
its not as simple as you think.

Actually, it is that simple. If you were asked by a random perosn on the street today what your race and/or ethnicity is, you would have an answer, right? Whatever that answer is, put it on AMCAS. You know what your race is, right? What do you put on forms at school? How do you refer to yourself? Put your honest answer, and that's that.

It's less about exact percentages, and more about personal identification, in my opinion. If this is the only instance when you would claim your hispanic heritage, then I think it would be dishonest to check the urm box.
 
plainolerichie said:
4 times the rate!? I thought the acceptance percent rate for URM is actually lower (but about equal) than that for whites. I know URM get in with lower scores, but not at a higher rate!

I agree. I've met black people who have told me that they were one of two or three blacks in their med school class.. and this is in NYC no less. I understand that a fewer percentage of blacks are applying to med school compared to whites and asians, but 2-3 in a class of ~100?
 
AMCAS allows applicants to self-identify. There is no 1/4, 1/8/, 1/16 test; just the question, "what is your ethnicity?". You are either Hispanic or non-Hispanic. Pick one.

Race is a separate menu. Pick one.

You're done.

It's descriptive, that's all. The most recent) data from AAMC shows that nation-wide Hispanics don't have a better shot of being admitted to any med school in comparison to non-Hispanics. Get the facts & do the math.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/start.htm

be honest about who you are -- what would you tell your future in-laws?
 
OP, you should check with your premed advisor or an adcom if you should list yourself down as "hispanic, white." A fourth is pushing it. NotAnMD said it would be unethical to consider yourself hispanic, but it would actually be lying to say that you aren't. Either leave that optional section blank or check-off hispanic. If you do check it off, expect little advantage, having to explain it throughout interviews, being tested on latin america issues, and looking silly during "diversity meetings."
 
Doc Martins said:
I agree. I've met black people who have told me that they were one of two or three blacks in their med school class.. and this is in NYC no less. I understand that a fewer percentage of blacks are applying to med school compared to whites and asians, but 2-3 in a class of ~100?

A couple of thoughts come to mind. Consider that there is a difference between who is offered admission and who chooses to matriculate.

Where there are few blacks (or other groups) in a class it may be that they have been offered admission but have chosen to go elsewhere because 1) they want to go to a school with a higher proportion of students like themselves (this becomes a downward spiral), they choose a school with a better financial aid package (some schools are very stingy in relation to other schools in the same tier), and then there are the reasons that almost anyone may have: another school is a better fit with their interests & the other usual reasons people give for choosing one school over another.
 
LizzyM said:
AMCAS allows applicants to self-identify. There is no 1/4, 1/8/, 1/16 test; just the question, "what is your ethnicity?". You are either Hispanic or non-Hispanic. Pick one.

Race is a separate menu. Pick one.

You're done.

It's descriptive, that's all. The most recent) data from AAMC shows that nation-wide Hispanics don't have a better shot of being admitted to any med school in comparison to non-Hispanics. Get the facts & do the math.
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/start.htm

be honest about who you are -- what would you tell your future in-laws?

Plus you can check as many boxes as you like. If you are black, white and asian check all three! The self identification is done by you the rest of the decisions are made by the admissions committee after reviewing your whole file.
 
LizzyM said:
A couple of thoughts come to mind. Consider that there is a difference between who is offered admission and who chooses to matriculate.

Where there are few blacks (or other groups) in a class it may be that they have been offered admission but have chosen to go elsewhere because 1) they want to go to a school with a higher proportion of students like themselves (this becomes a downward spiral), they choose a school with a better financial aid package (some schools are very stingy in relation to other schools in the same tier), and then there are the reasons that almost anyone may have: another school is a better fit with their interests & the other usual reasons people give for choosing one school over another.
re: the downward spiral trend, I had a convo about this with an MSTP director at one school. He wanted my honest opinions on the issue, and I told him that not everyone wants to be a pioneer. Med school is hard enough without also having to be the token minority (which is what you can easily become when no one else looks like you; there's a reason why my college always wanted me to pose for the recruitment brochure. haha). My final decision was made more difficult by the fact that some of the schools I liked the most also made the biggest deal out of my race; their emphasis made me uncomfortable, yet they felt the need to reassure me because they only had a handful of students who were URMs. I ultimately decided to disregard that issue since I've survived just fine in predominantly white elementary, middle, high, and secondary schools... but for many students of color, it's a real turn-off to be that isolated from the familiar or relatable. Because the unfortunate reality for minority students is that you are often forced to be the poster child for your race, to educate your peers during diversity discussions, to recruit prospective students of color, and to be above reproach as many will see you as a representative of your demographic. Not everyone wants to accept that responsiblity.
 
Thundrstorm said:
re: the downward spiral trend, I had a convo about this with an MSTP director at one school. He wanted my honest opinions on the issue, and I told him that not everyone wants to be a pioneer. Med school is hard enough without also having to be the token minority (which is what you can easily become when no one else looks like you; there's a reason why my college always wanted me to pose for the recruitment brochure. haha). My final decision was made more difficult by the fact that some of the schools I liked the most also made the biggest deal out of my race; their emphasis made me uncomfortable, yet they felt the need to reassure me because they only had a handful of students who were URMs. I ultimately decided to disregard that issue since I've survived just fine in predominantly white elementary, middle, high, and secondary schools... but for many students of color, it's a real turn-off to be that isolated from the familiar or relatable. Because the unfortunate reality for minority students is that you are often forced to be the poster child for your race, to educate your peers during diversity discussions, to recruit prospective students of color, and to be above reproach as many will see you as a representative of your demographic. Not everyone wants to accept that responsiblity.

Yes a supportive environment is very important to some students. They won't go to a school where they don't feel there is one.
 
Thundrstorm said:
re: the downward spiral trend, I had a convo about this with an MSTP director at one school. He wanted my honest opinions on the issue, and I told him that not everyone wants to be a pioneer. Med school is hard enough without also having to be the token minority (which is what you can easily become when no one else looks like you; there's a reason why my college always wanted me to pose for the recruitment brochure. haha). My final decision was made more difficult by the fact that some of the schools I liked the most also made the biggest deal out of my race; their emphasis made me uncomfortable, yet they felt the need to reassure me because they only had a handful of students who were URMs. I ultimately decided to disregard that issue since I've survived just fine in predominantly white elementary, middle, high, and secondary schools... but for many students of color, it's a real turn-off to be that isolated from the familiar or relatable. Because the unfortunate reality for minority students is that you are often forced to be the poster child for your race, to educate your peers during diversity discussions, to recruit prospective students of color, and to be above reproach as many will see you as a representative of your demographic. Not everyone wants to accept that responsiblity.

The fact that your MSTP director is worried about how many URMs you have and making sure you're on brochures shows me that even after affirmative action was deemed illegal, that it sadly still exists. :(
 
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Will Ferrell said:
OP, you should check with your premed advisor or an adcom if you should list yourself down as "hispanic, white." A fourth is pushing it. NotAnMD said it would be unethical to consider yourself hispanic, but it would actually be lying to say that you aren't. Either leave that optional section blank or check-off hispanic. If you do check it off, expect little advantage, having to explain it throughout interviews, being tested on latin america issues, and looking silly during "diversity meetings."

I meant with the sole intention of gaining the benefit URM status, but I see what your saying.

Though if the same applicant happened to have a latin sounding last name and boned up on latin american issues in health, it wouldn't be a tough sell in a 30 min interview.
 
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