The Great Canadian migration -> US/Aus

Anyone else considering applying to dental school in US or Australia?

prez_al said:

1) There's dental school in Australia?!
2)Just out of curiosity, does the Canadian migration refer to the fact that the Canadians who barely miss getting into a Canadian school apply to the states and/or Australia as a backup at the same time making the application cycle that much more competitive?

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1) yeah.. ever hear of Gow-gates block? or tooth mouse? Both Great Australian dental inventions.. at Sydney University and Melbourne University respectively.

2) Yeah.. maybe. Hey.. It's gotten damn tough for Canadians so we do what we must for the career we desire.
I lucked out because of mom and dad I have both Australian and Canadian passports.. (and being born in the states.. I'm also American)

Just curious.. but what happend to the Hawaii college of dental medicine? Was that all a sham? Anyone else heard anything about that?

prez_al said:

Totally agree with you since you need > 3.8 to get into a Canadian school nowadays. Damn, I hate having to resort to Plan B but hey, if it means no grad school, then we gotta do what's necessary. And with regards to your citizenships: wow... that is insane luck... so you have citizenship in 3 countries?! I doubt you'll need to go to Australia with your GPA and DAT scores, you might even get into McGill too. And it's sad how Hawaii no longer has a dental school... I wouldn't have mind four years of THAT.

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Yeah... I know what you mean.

Yeah, I got pretty lucky. I am living in San Diego at the moment and have gotten pretty used to warm weather.. so I'm a little reluctant to move back to Canada even for McGill. Yeah.. Hawaii would have been nice eh? Sydney University is looking like it might be a nice option. Especially considering the weather, beaches, and the chicks! Wait.. oh yeah.. and to finish dental school too! (Also.. the tuition is better there than at USC and UOP!!) Also, I hear the money/opportunities are pretty good in Australia (I think bout the same as the states/maybe a little better than most areas in Canada).
Basically, I'm just looking into all my options..

Oh.. and my gpa was done at an American undergrad (UCSD) so not sure if how that will transfer back to Canada or Australia. I know Canada can be a bit harsh with the conversion I hear.. Guess we'll see..

mlle said:

keep in mind that australia is about 17% gay, moreso than in any other country. although that might actually make the "chick" factor even better cause you have less competition.

you can watch espn in canada too, but you don't get the california weather...

i'm glad I didn't apply to UCSF cause I completed some of my prereqs in Canada and I didn't know they have a problem with that. any other schools have problems with canadian prereqs??

i did bio, chem, genetics classes in canada....

also, about Australia, isn't the system quite different? I mean I think you can get in there much earlier, but you graduate with a bachelor in dentistry or something?? no? I don't think you can come back to practise here if you study there...

I'm sure both of you will be fine with your grades.

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Yeah.. I'm glad you didn't apply to UCSF too.. cause san fran is like totally 60% gay! haha

jk.. but you're right. More chicks for me.

You can watch ESPN in Australia too btw..

Regarding the whole system thing.. yeah, that has been in the news. Before the UK joined the EU, Australia had been going more towards North American system. Now it is getting harder to go back and forth from Commonwealth to UK. (Canada, Australia, South Africa, etc -> UK) Cause they are going with the Euro system.

Australia used to have all med and dental programs where you get in right out of High school.. that is changing. I think most of the med and the dental schools are following.. are 4 year graduate entry programs where you are required to have a previous bachelors degree to get in.

Some still have some accelerated programs.. like I think Queensland University has a program where you can get a BSc and an MBBS (MD) in 7 years.. and Melbourne has one in 6-7 years too.

But you know what.. they have these in the US too! I think Brown University school of medicine has a 7 year program and Northwestern and UMKC both have 6 year Med programs too for students right out of High School.

anyways...

Concerning Dentistry: Sydney University.. their dental program is 4 years and requires a previous bachelors degree before you can apply. When you finish you get a "BDent" degree. But that is the same thing as a DDS, DMD. It is considered equivilent/same thing.


Since the systems and the quality of education are considered the same between Australia, Canada, and the US. I think they are considering a reciprocal accreditation agreement including Australia. There was an interesting article in the most recent edition of The American Academy of General Dentistry Journal that I read on here..


Reciprocity: Can accreditation work both ways?
Since 1955, CODA and its Canadian counterpart, the Commission on Dental Accreditation of Canada (CDAC), have managed an arrangement in which Canadian and U.S. dental programs are recognized with reciprocity. In other words, as in Dr. Roda’s case, a Canadian dental graduate who has taken the U.S. National Board Dental Examinations, Parts I and II, is eligible to take a clinical exam and apply for an U.S. state license. A U.S. dental graduate who passed the Canadian national licensing exam could, with proper work documentation, practice in any province.

“The Canadian model works very well,” says Dr. Kalkwarf. “The two agencies have worked hard to bring commonality to testing and outcomes.” Yet, he points out, there has been little discussion of other possibilities for accreditation reciprocity. If CODA accredits a Mexican dental school, for instance, will Mexican authorities accredit a U.S. school?

One issue is the disparity in licensing authority. In the United States, dental licensure is a states’ rights issue. Dentists are licensed by state governments. Most other countries issue national dental licenses. Another issue is measuring the equivalence of educational differences. Foreign-trained dentists don’t necessarily have inferior skills, but there is great variability in dental education.

Three prominent dental educational models coexist in the world. The first, and oldest, is the American model, also adopted in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. The American model features a separate university premedical education with subsequent advancement into a four-year dental program parallel to medicine but culminating in a non-M.D. doctorate. The second is the British—nowadays called the odontological—model, which typically involves a five-year program leading to a bachelor’s degree (often called a BDS, or bachelor of dental sciences) directly after high school. The third is the European—or stomatological—model, in which students earn medical degrees and go on to pursue dentistry as a specialty or subspecialty, sometimes with little practical training.


Beyond the training itself, Americans also worry about how transnational clinicians will adapt to the cultural realities of U.S. practice. “We are concerned not just about the clinical education of our international licensees but their cultural education as well,” says Mr. Shragg of the Minnesota Board of Dentistry. “Will the internationally-trained dentist understand our notions of infection control and four-handed dentistry?”

For the time being, accreditation commissioners consider the question of reciprocity largely moot. “Around 2002 or 2003,” Dr. Cole says, “Mexican dental schools asked to develop the same sort of reciprocity with the United States as we have with Canada. We compared standards and found substantial differences between Mexican standards and U.S. and Canadian standards. I don’t foresee any significant movement of international dentists, except in Australia and New Zealand, who have programs much like those in the United States. CODA could conceivably develop reciprocal agreements in those countries.”

Hopin' said:

By the way... with these stats.... why wouldn't you apply to a few more schools in the States so that your chances would go up and thus won't have to migrate all the way to Sydney or Melbourne.....

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Well.. personally. I wouldnt' be migrating since I already have citizenship. But, Also my father went to med school there and I know they have some really good programs that are well regarded in the US. Plus, the lifestyle and experience of it. (Dad took me on a couple trips there when I was in High School) But I wanted to try it out on my own now possibly. Again, just leaving all my options open.

CallMeAl said:

If I graduate from a US dental school, would I be able to practice in Australia for a couple of years just for the experience??? Is that possible?

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hmm.. I think at the moment no. (at least until the recriprocal agreement works out). You would have to sit an exam and maybe do a year or two of additional schooling. Basically the same sort of program as in the US for foreign dentists.

Bridging program for foreign dentists


Australian Dental Council - ADC exam thread
(one of the longest threads on this webtsite)

soo.. is anyone else from Canada or the US applying to anywhere in Australia? Just curious.

Angle Jr. said:

I’m just curious…Do Australians care about their teeth as much as North Americans do? I mean, to me (I’m Japanese) Canadians and Americans seem to care about their teeth much more than most Europeans (including British people) and Asian people… I am always amazed to see how much value Americans place on white teeth. I wonder if the situation is similar in Australia as well.

When I was in Japan, I always heard that the U.S. is the best country to study dentistry in terms of clinical education (and Sweden for implants). Are Australian dental schools (e.g U Sydney) as good as good U.S. schools (e.g. Maryland, Detroit Mercy) in their clinical education? I am aware of some great Australian clinicians like Derek Mahony, but I wonder if average Australian dental students gain as much clinical experience as average U.S. dental students…Does anyone know?

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I don't know if "Australians care about their teeth as much as Canadians or Americans" that is a bit of a broad statement.

The money is about the same as far as salaries go.. between Australia and US/Canada for dentists if that helps you out.

Do I think that the average Australian dental school is as good as the average US/Canadian school? Yeah, I think so. If you don't believe me.. the chair of the organisation who accredits all the US and Canadian dental schools seems to think they are the same quality!

"I don’t foresee any significant movement of international dentists, except in Australia and New Zealand, who have programs much like those in the United States. CODA could conceivably develop reciprocal agreements in those countries.” - Dr. Cole Chair of CODA (comission on dental accreditation)

jinushawn said:

Hey OzDDS i got your msg
I applied to USyd Dental school a month ago and the interview will take place in Montreal 3 weeks from now.

I am also planning to apply to Melbourne and Queensland Dental school
soon.
I think the deadline for those two are around Oct/Nov.

Let's talk more about this on MSN.

Just add [email protected]

I am more than happy to share infos

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Hey, congrats on the interview. I haven't heard from them yet (but I just sent in my application last week). Have my fingers crossed. Have you heard from Melbourne or Queensland?

Angle Jr. said:

Thanks for your reply. I’m sorry my English was not very clear. What I meant was, do people in Australia care about the appearance of their teeth as much as Americans do? For example, in the U.S. celebrities and people at higher social positions are supposed to have nicely aligned, white teeth. Also, since dental care is expensive in the U.S., teeth can be seen as an indicator of the financial background of that person, i.e. how much his or her parents could spend for the child’s dental care. This is not the case in Japan, for example. A lot of Japanese celebrities, CEO's etc. have crooked, yellow teeth. So I just wanted to know if Australian people value white teeth just like Americans, or not to that extent (i.e. like British people)... Aesthetic dentistry is very advanced in the U.S. because there is a great demand for aesthetic procedures. I am just curious about the demand for aesthetic procedures in Australia.

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To answer your question. Yes, Australians care about aesthetic dentistry.

jinushawn said:

As for Melbourne and Queensland, their application process is little different

They collect all the applications till October and then decide who gets an

interview. (Not enrolling basis)

So, i think i will spend most of my time preparing for USyd interview and hear from them in maybe late Sept/early Oct then decide whether i wanna apply
to Melbourne and Queensland.

Afterall, USyd only offers graduate-entry dental
and it;s on top of my list

Have you heard from other US or Canadian Dental schools yet, OzDDs?

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Hey, yeah.. I don't know anyone who has done the interview. But I think there are 1 or 2 USyd dent students on this forum so you may try to ask them.

Check this Thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=284608

I've just sent in my supplementary, but I haven't heard back from anyone yet. We'll see.

Sprgrover said:

It faded in a heap of scandals. If you search in the pharmacy forum you can read up on all the past buzz (the dental school was to be attached/affiliated with the pharm school).

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So they are both gone for good?

homby81 said:

hi, I just found out this forum today. I live in canada.
I actually did interview for Usyd

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Hey, did anyone else interview for University of Melbourne?