Please help me make an important decision!

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Hi SDN Community,

So here's the deal. This past application cycle, I applied to a few Canadian schools thinking I had no chance of getting in (there's no reapplicant stigma in Canada) and that I would just reapply this year. My ugrad GPA was A-OK so during the year, I focused on improving my ECs (which I have, rather *significantly*) so I'd have a solid application come summertime (now). The only real blemish on my app is my VR score for the MCAT which was 3 points lower than my average practice scores - I think the noise level got to me because I had been doing practice exams alone. So I was planning on re-writing the MCAT in Aug.

The thing is I did get in this year, but I'm not thrilled about the school. Don't get me wrong, I'm super grateful and thrilled I got in, I'm just not that thrilled that I got into *this particular school*. And I know people always say that you should only apply somewhere you'd go but at the time, I really didn't think I was getting in anywhere and just thought I'd give it a very irrational go and maybe get an interview which would be good practice for the following year (I know, very stupid)... Also, there aren't any real rankings in Canada and therefore I should be beyond ecstatic because getting into a Canadian school, is well... getting into a Canadian school... But for some reason, I can't get past the fact that I had my heart set on another school. So I was thinking of deferring BUT if I defer, I won't be able to apply to my dream school since it's in the same province. BUT, I can apply to schools in the States. Now, I'd only attend a top-15 school from the States over the school I've gained admission to and I know I'd be pretty bummed out if I deferred a year to end up to going to this school anyways.

So basically, what would you do in my situation? Has anyone deferred and gotten into a better school or a school that they had preferred over the one they had gotten into the year before? And if not, did you regret deferring?

Also, I'm basically guaranteed 3-4 pubs if I stick around and finish up the research project I'm working on. Do any of you guys know if pubs you got before getting into med school will help you come residency apps time? I'm just trying to justify deferring even if things don't necessarily work out as planned!

Sorry for rambling (I'm up way past my bed time) and I really would appreciate any feedback asap because I'm running out of time.

Also, please don't flame me - I've been wrestling with this decision for some time and am perfectly aware that some may think I'm being ridiculous - in fact, I feel that way some of the times which is why I'm having such a hard time making up my mind... Anyways, I really do need some advice and was hoping you guys would give me your opinions on the situation...

Thanks a tonne!
Monette 🙂

silas2642 · Jul 3, 2006

Go to the Canadian school; you'd be insane not to. There are no guarantees that you will get into any other schools this application cycle. I know you had your heart set on another school, but the deal with med school applications is that if you really want to become a doctor, you go where you get accepted. Most of us (and by most of us I mean applicants, not sdners) have only one school to choose from.

In my opinion, med school is med school. If you get in, you go. Try to change your attitude and make the most of it; Canadian schools are awesome and if you get in there, you don't want to come here. Too expensive. Good luck.

Law2Doc · Jul 3, 2006

silas2642 said:
There are no guarantees that you will get into any other schools this application cycle.

Agree with this. You have not given your stats, but it is the very rare individual who is a shue-in at a top 15 school in the US. Literally thousands of people with fantastic stats and ECs get rejected by these schools every year. Given that you were already rejected by a number of the Canadian schools, didn't expect to get any, and are techically a reapplicant, you are not a lock for a top 15 US school by any means.

The attitude that you feel the need to go to a certain caliber school in and of itself sounds like it is going to be a hurdle to your career.

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Thanks for the two replies (after 90+ views 😛 😉 )!

Law2Doc said:
Agree with this. You have not given your stats, but it is the very rare individual who is a shue-in at a top 15 school in the US.

I am by no means insinuating that I am. I just have this feeling that I should give it a shot, you know. Stats: GPA 3.9+ (I seriously don't remeber the exact number because of the weird conversion, but it's pretty up there), MCAT score over 30 - unbalanced due to low verbal. But like I said, I'd be retaking in Aug b/c my verbal was uncharacteristically low compared to practice scores.

Law2Doc said:
Literally thousands of people with fantastic stats and ECs get rejected by these schools every year.

I know, which is why I don't know if it's worth it. The rational realist in me keeps telling me I'm crazy. But the romantic idealist keeps saying that I won't know unless I give it a go.

Law2Doc said:
Given that you were already rejected by a number of the Canadian schools, didn't expect to get any, and are techically a reapplicant, you are not a lock for a top 15 US school by any means.

The one I was rejected by pre-interview was because of my MCAT - they have strict cutoffs here. But trust me, I am in no way trying to imply that I am un-rejectable! I really hope that my post didn't come off as arrogant because that is most certainly not me.

Law2Doc said:
The attitude that you feel the need to go to a certain caliber school in and of itself sounds like it is going to be a hurdle to your career.

I'm not really sure what you meant by this but here's what I think you were referring to?

Like I said, Canadian schools aren't ranked so technically they're all fantastic institutions. The one thing that does concern me is that the majority of this school's graduates go into family medicine - something I know I don't want to do. Now, I do know they gear their program to try to entice people to go into that field but I was just concerned that maybe a lot of them just didn't match into competitive specialties and ended up in family medicine by default.

So no one out there has deferred? Anyone else want to weigh in on my level of insanity?

Again, thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming!

Monette

Depakote · Jul 3, 2006

You're an international reapplicant only willing to take top 15 in the US... Those are not good odds.

Reapplication is a bitch, there are no guantees. Save yourself the hassle. Go with the school you've got and run with it.

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Depakote said:
You're an international reapplicant only willing to take top 15 in the US... Those are not good odds.

Hmmm, I didn't think I'd be considered a reapplicant since I hadn't applied to those schools before...

dsprague12 · Jul 3, 2006

I know a lot of the Top 15 U.S. schools are non-rolling, but taking the August MCAT will reduce your chances at those schools in the top 15 that do have rolling admissions...

silas2642 · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
Hmmm, I didn't think I'd be considered a reapplicant since I hadn't applied to those schools before...

You're considered a reapplicant if this is your second application cycle. A lot of schools will consider the fact that you rescinding an acceptance to a perfectly good allopathic school a "red flag." Take the gift and run.

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

silas2642 said:
You're considered a reapplicant if this is your second application cycle. A lot of schools will consider the fact that you rescinding an acceptance to a perfectly good allopathic school a "red flag." Take the gift and run.

Yes but I had only applied to Canadian schools this year - I thought the two systems were separate, no? Also, I have no intentions of rescinding because I know that would be *****ic. I am only considering deferring. Still not worth it?

Monette

Law2Doc · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
Yes but I had only applied to Canadian schools this year - I thought the two systems were separate, no? Also, I have no intentions of rescinding because I know that would be *****ic. I am only considering deferring. Still not worth it?

Monette

I haven't looked at the wording of the question in a while, but am pretty sure that having applied to any med school, whether US or foreign, is going to make you a reapplicant.
As to whether it is worth it to defer and reapply, it makes sense if you want to go to another school for particular reasons other than rank. It probably makes no sense to just defer and spend the money to retake the MCAT and do AMCAS, secondaries etc. for the rather bleak chances of getting looked at by only 15 schools that would need to pick you over many thousands of equally qualified folks. You are a foreign reapplicant. You are retaking the MCAT due to low verbal. While you are already accepted to a Canadian med school, and could probably gain acceptance to some US med schools, you have yet to give any evidence which would suggest that the top 15 is realistic. Good luck.

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Law2Doc said:
I haven't looked at the wording of the question in a while, but am pretty sure that having applied to any med school, whether US or foreign, is going to make you a reapplicant.
As to whether it is worth it to defer and reapply, it makes sense if you want to go to another school for particular reasons other than rank. It probably makes no sense to just defer and spend the money to retake the MCAT and do AMCAS, secondaries etc. for the rather bleak chances of getting looked at by only 15 schools that would need to pick you over many thousands of equally qualified folks. You are a foreign reapplicant. You are retaking the MCAT due to low verbal. While you are already accepted to a Canadian med school, and could probably gain acceptance to some US med schools, you have yet to give any evidence which would suggest that the top 15 is realistic. Good luck.

Thanks again for responding. I know you're trying to be helpful and rational, but that bolded part saddened me, even though it's not even rude or anything. Man, I have a weird emotional investment in this. But really, I do appreciate your taking the time to help me out.

So no inspiring stories from people who deferred?

And also, no one has answered this: do pubs before med school help for residency?

Monette

Nexus777 · Jul 3, 2006

I have two friends (applying different years in 2002 and 03). They didn't like the initial schools that they got into, and their advisor (same advisor) looked at their essays and told them potential reasons why they probably didn't get in. He told them that they should reapply rather than go to a school they didn't want to go to, so they did, and they both ended up at HMS the second cycle after redrafting their essays. So I say, go for it and reapply.

As far as pubs are concerned, of course they help to get into medical school. Pubs before medical school are likely to have little effect on residency. Residency directors want to see what you have done during medical school because it is indicative of what you will continue to do, so essentially, your plate (i.e. CV) is essentially wiped clean after getting into medical school. If you continue to pub in med school, they will know that you are still interested and strong in research.

Orthodoc40 · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
Hi SDN Community,
But for some reason, I can't get past the fact that I had my heart set on another school. So I was thinking of deferring BUT if I defer, I won't be able to apply to my dream school since it's in the same province. BUT, I can apply to schools in the States. Now, I'd only attend a top-15 school from the States over the school I've gained admission to and I know I'd be pretty bummed out if I deferred a year to end up to going to this school anyways.
Thanks a tonne!
Monette 🙂

So, I think what you're saying is that you want to re-apply to some top 15 US schools, and your dream school is in Canada, but not the one you're in at, right? And that your VR score is probably the main reason you didn't get into one of those this last cycle, right?

Do any of these schools that you would go to over the school that you are in at accept transfer students? That's a real long shot, I know. But I wouldn't hold off at a school you're in at just to hopefully increase your MCAT score, (no guarantees that you will - not to be negative, just bringing in possibilities here) the applications will not be finished until late October because of that... All the fees, secondaries. Oh man. I am reapplying now and don't recommend doing it over again!! :laugh:

I think you have to decide which fate you could live with LESS:

(1) Going to this school, wondering if you would have been happier or better off at some other school (which will probably wear off after a month of being at this school, when you realize it didn't really matter, and you're having a blast w/new classmates, working your butts off, etc., etc...!)
OR
(2) Deferring at this school, only to land up going there a year later, having spent all that time, money & effort reapplying. If that isn't going to haunt you, then maybe try it.

Orthodoc40 · Jul 3, 2006

Nexus777 said:
I have two friends (applying different years in 2002 and 03). They didn't like the initial schools that they got into, and their advisor (same advisor) looked at their essays and told them potential reasons why they probably didn't get in. He told them that they should reapply rather than go to a school they didn't want to go to, so they did, and they both ended up at HMS the second cycle after redrafting their essays. So I say, go for it and reapply.

First time I've heard of essays being the difference maker for people...interesting!

Law2Doc · Jul 3, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
So, I think what you're saying is that you want to re-apply to some top 15 US schools, and your dream school is in Canada, but not the one you're in at, right? And that your VR score is probably the main reason you didn't get into one of those this last cycle, right?

Do any of these schools that you would go to over the school that you are in at accept transfer students? That's a real long shot, I know. .

There's a relatively limited amount of transfering that goes on in med school, and it is almost always not permitted until after the second year (and pending acceptable Step 1 scores). The reason no transfers usually occur after the first year is that most schools cover courses/material in different orders, and some break up the years into systemic vs disease over the two years etc. So if you transfered, you might end up with huge gaps in what you needed to cover for the boards.

Law2Doc · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
Thanks again for responding. I know you're trying to be helpful and rational, but that bolded part saddened me, even though it's not even rude or anything. Man, I have a weird emotional investment in this. But really, I do appreciate your taking the time to help me out.

I don't mean to sadden you, I just think you are perhaps drastically underestimating what it takes to get into a top 15 school and am at a loss as to why you feel such an entitlement. If you had said you wanted to reapply because of some specific issue with the school that accepted you, I could get that, but to be so focused on school rank is a bit incomprehensible and misguided. But good luck with that.

Orthodoc40 · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
I'm not really sure what you meant by this but here's what I think you were referring to?

Like I said, Canadian schools aren't ranked so technically they're all fantastic institutions. The one thing that does concern me is that the majority of this school's graduates go into family medicine - something I know I don't want to do. Now, I do know they gear their program to try to entice people to go into that field but I was just concerned that maybe a lot of them just didn't match into competitive specialties and ended up in family medicine by default.

Again, thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming!

Monette

Canadian schools are pretty tough to get into, period. So I didn't want to leave out a congratulations!

Facing the DO option, worry about being steered into family medicine has concerned me, too. A couple of things about that, and one is that something over 75% of people enter med school with one idea of what they will specialize in, and change their minds along the way, so you never know. You might end up liking something you never dreamed you would standing where you are today. In fact, every doctor I've talked to has told me they landed up in something other than what they thought they would starting out at school.

But there are ways to find out why people are matching into family medicine from that school without just guessing & worrying about it. There must be. Do some investigating and find out if people didn't match into other specialties or if they just applied to FM. Find out about people who went there that DID match into competitive specialties - maybe if you can, talk to them about the school. Or something. You could probably alleviate these worries just by asking the right people from this school.

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
So, I think what you're saying is that you want to re-apply to some top 15 US schools, and your dream school is in Canada, but not the one you're in at, right? And that your VR score is probably the main reason you didn't get into one of those this last cycle, right?

Pretty much... Attending a top 15 in the US would make me equally (if not more) ecstatic than attending my dream school in Canada which is out of the question.

Orthodoc40 said:
Do any of these schools that you would go to over the school that you are in at accept transfer students? That's a real long shot, I know. But I wouldn't hold off at a school you're in at just to hopefully increase your MCAT score, (no guarantees that you will - not to be negative, just bringing in possibilities here) the applications will not be finished until late October because of that... All the fees, secondaries. Oh man. I am reapplying now and don't recommend doing it over again!!

I don't think a transfer is viable/feasible and I don't think I'd want to do that even if it were. Yes, I think the success of my application is contingent on the MCAT score and I am well aware of the real possiblity that I may score lower. It is quite disheartening yet I can't seem to let go of this minutely infinitesimal possiblity of having it all work out.

Orthodoc40 said:
I think you have to decide which fate you could live with LESS:

(1) Going to this school, wondering if you would have been happier or better off at some other school (which will probably wear off after a month of being at this school, when you realize it didn't really matter, and you're having a blast w/new classmates, working your butts off, etc., etc...!)
OR
(2) Deferring at this school, only to land up going there a year later, having spent all that time, money & effort reapplying. If that isn't going to haunt you, then maybe try it.

This is exactly what I've been wrestling with. I know I'd be bummed out if #2 were the end result but I also know I'm always going to wonder WHAT IF in the event of #1. The pragmatic in me says that a year is a year and I'm wasting time but the idealist keeps saying that time is nothing, timing is everything and even if #2 were the result, at least I will have the satisfaction of having given it a try, you know...

SO... Kids, learn from me! Make sure you apply once and only once. Apply when you feel your app is as good as you want it to be. And only apply somewhere you are 1000% you'd be abso-flippin-lutely dancing-on-every-surface-in-your-place-happy to go there.

Monette

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
First time I've heard of essays being the difference maker for people...interesting!

Yeah same here. Nexus, do you know what was the major flaw in either or both of their PS's.

And thanks for sharing that Nexus. That seems to be the only inspiring story around today...

Monette

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Law2Doc said:
I don't mean to sadden you,

I know you don't 🙂 but I can't help it 🙁

😛

Law2Doc said:
I just think you are perhaps drastically underestimating what it takes to get into a top 15 school and am at a loss as to why you feel such an entitlement.

Hmm, I really don't think I'm underestimating what it takes to get into a top 15 school. Getting in here in Canada is ridiculous and I'm well aware that it will be even more ridiculous getting into the Harvales and the Yalevards... And I know it must come across that way on an internet forum, but I really don't have so much a sense of entitlement as a wistful hope that I may just be lucky enough to have the privilege to be there. I'm vastly aware that amazing candidates get turned away every day simply because there are a limited number of seats. I guess I'm a dreamer, what can I say?

Law2Doc said:
If you had said you wanted to reapply because of some specific issue with the school that accepted you, I could get that, but to be so focused on school rank is a bit incomprehensible and misguided. But good luck with that.

Fair enough. I think one of the major things that rubbed me the wrong way were the things the students giving us the tour said. And it's not like I didn't like *them* because they were incredibly nice, I just didn't like the way they were selling the school and what they thought were its strong suits. I was given extremely weird looks when I asked about research opportunities... They went on and on about how their school is great because it's laid back, there's no competition, everyone goes on vacation instead of doing research, you don't need to worry about research or your grades, you should have fun, bla bla bla. And this is after they had done a 20-minute spiel about the fun things to do in the city. I mean if I had asked them what they do for fun, then great but I asked you about research. It just seemed like there aren't very many opportunities, or maybe they just weren't into research, I dunno... And I know someone who goes there and she's always going on and on about how she loves it because it's the ultimate party school and they have it so much better than everyone else because of that. And honestly, those are great things - I do want to have a good time in med school but that's not *why* I'm going to med school whereas that was the reasoning a lot of them had for being there. They didn't strike me as the most motivated bunch but it may have been that that's how they want to sell the school, who knows?

Monette

Monette · Jul 3, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
Canadian schools are pretty tough to get into, period. So I didn't want to leave out a congratulations!

Awww, thanks man (I think)!! That's real sweet of you! And boy don't I know it about the crazy Canadian schools! 🙄

Orthodoc40 said:
Facing the DO option, worry about being steered into family medicine has concerned me, too. A couple of things about that, and one is that something over 75% of people enter med school with one idea of what they will specialize in, and change their minds along the way, so you never know. You might end up liking something you never dreamed you would standing where you are today. In fact, every doctor I've talked to has told me they landed up in something other than what they thought they would starting out at school.

Very true. I intend on going in with an open mind which is why I also want to keep my options open for competitive residencies and such.

Orthodoc40 said:
But there are ways to find out why people are matching into family medicine from that school without just guessing & worrying about it. There must be. Do some investigating and find out if people didn't match into other specialties or if they just applied to FM. Find out about people who went there that DID match into competitive specialties - maybe if you can, talk to them about the school. Or something. You could probably alleviate these worries just by asking the right people from this school.

I should definitely look into that - but the numbers were not very promising, that's for sure.

Thanks for the advice and the kind words... 🙂
Monette

_ian · Jul 3, 2006

Monette said:
Now, I'd only attend a top-15 school from the States over the school I've gained admission to and I know I'd be pretty bummed out if I deferred a year to end up to going to this school anyways.

Don't bother. If you had myriad US schools that you'd enjoy being at, that is one thing, but it is definitely not worth the time and effort to apply if you only want top 15. You have no guarantees, especially since any chance at an interview is contingent on you improving your MCAT score.

I understand the issues you have with the school you've been accepted to, but if you'd prefer it over anything but a top 15 institution in the States, then you should go there.

GuzzyRon · Jul 4, 2006

Well, I don't have much to add other than that I hope you realize that well over 90% of US med schools have US citizenship or permanent resident status requirements. So if you don't have either status, you shouldn't even be looking at top 15 schools, you should only be looking at the few schools that give international students a shot.

almost_there · Jul 4, 2006

Is the school you are accepted to comfortable and willing to let you defer and apply to other schools?

If yes, and you have good things going on in the intervening year (e.g. your 3-4 extra publications), I say that you should go for it.

"Going for it" Downsides: 1 extra year before getting your MD, going into residency, etc.. cost and effort of applications
"Going for it" Upsides: Extra publications, training, giving your dream your best shot.

I would disagree with most of the people here. If you don't get in, fine, the only thing you lose is a year, and in that year you can really do a lot and mature a great deal. I would advocate anyone to take at least a year off between finishing college and starting medical school, anyways. Explore a little, go travelling, do something you've always wanted to do outside of your career. The choice we're talking about here is not REJECTING your one acceptance, but simply deferring it -- it's now your baseline.

This is contingent on that one school really being your baseline, and ok with your deferring and applying to other schools. Can you confirm this?

Law2Doc · Jul 4, 2006

almost_there said:
IIf you don't get in, fine, the only thing you lose is a year,

Not really. She is losing the thousands of dollars it costs to retake the MCAT reapply to AMCAS and 15 secondaries, perhaps some interview trips, and then a year of income on the post training side. So we are talking about a ton of money for a pretty minimal chance of getting in to the 15 schools she is looking at.

Anastasis · Jul 4, 2006

Monette: Do you plan on returning to Canada to practice or practicing in the US?

Sorry if you'd answered that and I missed it.

AmyO · Jul 4, 2006

~Monette~

I think maybe some of the reasons nobody is giving you the hope you were looking for is: 1) You don't really give us too much information other than your stats are 30+ MCAT, you have a few pubs, 3.9 something G.P.A., and you're not thrilled with your VR. Most allopathic matriculants have a 30+ MCAT and a 3.5+ GPA (not that your GPA isn't awesome, it's just that the MCAT seems to be the thing that allows adcoms to compare other students academic-wise). Your stats are certainly good enough to get into a U.S. med school, but I don't know about a top 15 U.S. med school. If you had said you had a 35+ MCAT, 3.9+ GPA, awesome EC's, lots of clinical experience (also important for U.S. med schools), etc etc etc, then I think everybody would be saying go for it. 2) We're not adcoms. While most of us have the experience of going through the application process and tons of useless knowledge about the application process, we don't ultimately know what adcoms think of people turning down an acceptance (or deferring with the intent of turning down the acceptance if you get in somewhere else for that matter) to apply to other schools (although we do have our opinions and most are not in favor of reapplying for a different acceptance). 3) I don't have much information regarding foreign applicants, but I know some schools either don't allow foreign applicants or make it very hard for them to gain acceptance. Well, whew.....I'm done. Good luck with everything and let us know what you decide to do.

almost_there · Jul 4, 2006

Law2Doc said:
Not really. She is losing the thousands of dollars it costs to retake the MCAT reapply to AMCAS and 15 secondaries, perhaps some interview trips, and then a year of income on the post training side.

Thousands of dollars to retake MCAT + application costs -- yes, but not a huge deal (IMO) when weighed against regret in the scale of a lifetime.

Year of income on the post training side -- would be an argument for anyone to NOT take time between finishing undergrad and starting medical school. I would argue that the real-world experience and maturity gained from well-spent years off the med school track benefits you throughout your career. Plus, you get to do it in your early 20's with good health, few responsibilities, and lots of energy!

Law2Doc said:
So we are talking about a ton of money for a pretty minimal chance of getting in to the 15 schools she is looking at.

You don't know that, Law2Doc.

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

GuzzyRon said:
Well, I don't have much to add other than that I hope you realize that well over 90% of US med schools have US citizenship or permanent resident status requirements. So if you don't have either status, you shouldn't even be looking at top 15 schools, you should only be looking at the few schools that give international students a shot.

I was under the impression that there are quite a few schools that admit Canadian applicants (who don't have a dual citizenship or permanent resident status), particularly those that are top 20-ish which are the only ones I'm looking at. Can anyone please correct me if I'm wrong?

Thanks,
Monette

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

almost_there said:
Is the school you are accepted to comfortable and willing to let you defer and apply to other schools?

What they stressed during the info session is that you cannot apply to other schools in that province. Because they use a centralized system, once your application comes up, your deferred acceptance will automatically be rescinded. There was no mention of other schools outside the province or international schools.

almost_there said:
If yes, and you have good things going on in the intervening year (e.g. your 3-4 extra publications), I say that you should go for it.

"Going for it" Downsides: 1 extra year before getting your MD, going into residency, etc.. cost and effort of applications
"Going for it" Upsides: Extra publications, training, giving your dream your best shot.

I would disagree with most of the people here. If you don't get in, fine, the only thing you lose is a year, and in that year you can really do a lot and mature a great deal. I would advocate anyone to take at least a year off between finishing college and starting medical school, anyways. Explore a little, go travelling, do something you've always wanted to do outside of your career. The choice we're talking about here is not REJECTING your one acceptance, but simply deferring it -- it's now your baseline.

The only thing is if I stick around a year, I'm going to have to finish up my research project so not much time for traveling and what not but if it gets me into the coveted top 15, I could care less.

almost_there said:
This is contingent on that one school really being your baseline, and ok with your deferring and applying to other schools. Can you confirm this?

Like I said they explicitly stated that you cannot reapply within the province. I think they stressed the in-province application because that's the only way they can find out.

Monette

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

Law2Doc said:
Not really. She is losing the thousands of dollars it costs to retake the MCAT reapply to AMCAS and 15 secondaries, perhaps some interview trips, and then a year of income on the post training side. So we are talking about a ton of money for a pretty minimal chance of getting in to the 15 schools she is looking at.

I don't care about the money. I'm an idealist, remember 😉 😎 😀

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

Anastasis said:
Monette: Do you plan on returning to Canada to practice or practicing in the US?

I had actually been thinking that I may want to practice in the US even if I end up going to school here. So although I'm not 1000% sure, I think there's a greater likelihood of me ending up in the US. That's the way I'm leaning as of right now anyways..

Anastasis said:
Sorry if you'd answered that and I missed it.

I hadn't so no worries. That's actually another valid point so thanks for bringing it up 🙂

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

AmyO said:
~Monette~

I think maybe some of the reasons nobody is giving you the hope you were looking for is: 1) You don't really give us too much information other than your stats are 30+ MCAT, you have a few pubs, 3.9 something G.P.A., and you're not thrilled with your VR.

I do *not* have any pubs. I said I would be getting pubs *this* year during the application cycle if I decide to go with it.

AmyO said:
Most allopathic matriculants have a 30+ MCAT and a 3.5+ GPA (not that your GPA isn't awesome, it's just that the MCAT seems to be the thing that allows adcoms to compare other students academic-wise). Your stats are certainly good enough to get into a U.S. med school, but I don't know about a top 15 U.S. med school.

You're right, which is why I'll have to retake the MCAT. I'm teaching the sciences for Kaplan so those scores were fine and sadly my writing score was awesome. Apparently, I can write but I can't read. 👎

If anybody who has posted wants to know the breakdown of my MCAT score, feel free to PM me. 🙂

AmyO said:
If you had said you had a 35+ MCAT, 3.9+ GPA, awesome EC's, lots of clinical experience (also important for U.S. med schools), etc etc etc, then I think everybody would be saying go for it.

EDIT: I had typed out my ECs but I don't think that's very wise given the uniqueness of my situation. Again, I'll provide you with a list if you PM me.

AmyO said:
2) We're not adcoms. While most of us have the experience of going through the application process and tons of useless knowledge about the application process, we don't ultimately know what adcoms think of people turning down an acceptance (or deferring with the intent of turning down the acceptance if you get in somewhere else for that matter) to apply to other schools (although we do have our opinions and most are not in favor of reapplying for a different acceptance). 3) I don't have much information regarding foreign applicants, but I know some schools either don't allow foreign applicants or make it very hard for them to gain acceptance. Well, whew.....I'm done. Good luck with everything and let us know what you decide to do.

Yeah, do adcomms really look down on your application if you simply defer? I was not aware of that. And I think I addressed the foreign applicant issue a few posts back 🙂

Monette

Monette · Jul 4, 2006

almost_there said:
Thousands of dollars to retake MCAT + application costs -- yes, but not a huge deal (IMO) when weighed against regret in the scale of a lifetime.

Year of income on the post training side -- would be an argument for anyone to NOT take time between finishing undergrad and starting medical school. I would argue that the real-world experience and maturity gained from well-spent years off the med school track benefits you throughout your career. Plus, you get to do it in your early 20's with good health, few responsibilities, and lots of energy!

That bolded part is what really scares me. So I totally agree with you. And you know how they say great minds think alike... 😛

almost_there said:
You don't know that, Law2Doc.

You're awesome! 😎

Monette

QofQuimica · Jul 4, 2006

I really hate these threads, but I'm going to reply to this one since I've spoken to you before. I think what you really need to do is to figure out what your dream actually is. Is your dream to be a doctor? Fantastic; you're a lucky girl, because the means to that dream is here, within your grasp. Go to your Canadian med school, and four years from now, you're a doctor. Or is your dream to be a medical student at a top school in the US? Those are not the same two dreams, Monette.

I'm not an idealist; I'm a realist. 😉 And as a realist, I agree with the posters who asked why on earth you would risk an acceptance in the hand to pursue such a quixotic dream. I won't lie to you and say that I think that rank is a good reason to decline an acceptance, because I absolutely don't believe that. I think that you'd be making an incredibly foolish, superficial decision, and I won't change my mind about that no matter how many random, unsubstantiated anecdotes to the contrary are posted here on SDN. It's a simple question of values and priorities, and doing what you're contemplating completely goes against mine. But really, my opinion is besides the point, because this is your choice to make, not mine, and YOUR values and priorities are the ones that are at issue here. If school rank means that much to you, and getting into a top American school really IS your dream, then you need to be honest with yourself, and admit that this is what you actually want. Monette is the only one who can figure out who Monette is.

There is one little thing I'd caution you about, though, and that is to be very sure of what exactly the reality is of these ostensible dream schools. Everyone's been focusing on the chance of you not getting in anywhere if you reapply. But even if things go according to your wildest dreams with your applications, you still risk the possibility of getting to top ranked school X next fall and not liking the students there, either. And what will you do after your dream school has become just another reality nightmare?

almost_there · Jul 4, 2006

QofQuimica said:
I really hate these threads, but I'm going to reply to this one since I've spoken to you before. I think what you really need to do is to figure out what your dream actually is. Is your dream to be a doctor? Fantastic; you're a lucky girl, because the means to that dream is here, within your grasp. Go to your Canadian med school, and four years from now, you're a doctor. Or is your dream to be a medical student at a top school in the US? Those are not the same two dreams, Monette.

I'm not an idealist; I'm a realist. 😉 And as a realist, I agree with the posters who asked why on earth you would risk an acceptance in the hand to pursue such a quixotic dream. I won't lie to you and say that I think that rank is a good reason to decline an acceptance, because I absolutely don't believe that. I think that you'd be making an incredibly foolish, superficial decision, and I won't change my mind about that no matter how many random, unsubstantiated anecdotes to the contrary are posted here on SDN. It's a simple question of values and priorities, and doing what you're contemplating completely goes against mine. But really, my opinion is besides the point, because this is your choice to make, not mine, and YOUR values and priorities are the ones that are at issue here. If school rank means that much to you, and getting into a top American school really IS your dream, then you need to be honest with yourself, and admit that this is what you actually want. Monette is the only one who can figure out who Monette is.

Excellent post, Q. I also am very uncomfortable with using rank as the primary determinant of school selection. However, note that according to the OP, she is not DECLINING an acceptance, but DEFERRING one, so she still has this option next year if she wants to take it then. Even if it is in pursuit of a dream which is not that well substantiated, the downside is fairly limited, IMO.

QofQuimica said:
There is one little thing I'd caution you about, though, and that is to be very sure of what exactly the reality is of these ostensible dream schools. Everyone's been focusing on the chance of you not getting in anywhere if you reapply. But even if things go according to your wildest dreams with your applications, you still risk the possibility of getting to top ranked school X next fall and not liking the students there, either. And what will you do after your dream school has become just another reality nightmare?

Great point. But she may need to find that out on her own. I certainly was surprised, both positively and negatively, at my experience at different schools, top tier and middle tier.

Orthodoc40 · Jul 4, 2006

Monette said:
Fair enough. I think one of the major things that rubbed me the wrong way were the things the students giving us the tour said. And it's not like I didn't like *them* because they were incredibly nice, I just didn't like the way they were selling the school and what they thought were its strong suits. I was given extremely weird looks when I asked about research opportunities... They went on and on about how their school is great because it's laid back, there's no competition, everyone goes on vacation instead of doing research, you don't need to worry about research or your grades, you should have fun, bla bla bla. And this is after they had done a 20-minute spiel about the fun things to do in the city. I mean if I had asked them what they do for fun, then great but I asked you about research. It just seemed like there aren't very many opportunities, or maybe they just weren't into research, I dunno... And I know someone who goes there and she's always going on and on about how she loves it because it's the ultimate party school and they have it so much better than everyone else because of that. And honestly, those are great things - I do want to have a good time in med school but that's not *why* I'm going to med school whereas that was the reasoning a lot of them had for being there. They didn't strike me as the most motivated bunch but it may have been that that's how they want to sell the school, who knows?
Monette

See THIS is more of a reason I would say that reapplying might be worth a try. But only might, not definitely. Obviously, it is hard to be sure what things would be like there for you, but it sounds like there's a potential for not being a great fit. A bad fit to me is a much better reason than chasing an expendible, invented ranking system. Still, even at this school you got into, the faculty will still be there, available for you to find a mentor or two that you can work with and pursue what is important to you there (research, for example). Who knows, you could even be an example-setter just because you pursue your interests there against the (seemingly) prevailing attitudes of your classmates!

Then again, see Q's post about that. You will always risk the possibility of 'good fit' whether a school has been assigned some higher number in people's minds or not.

This is exactly what I've been wrestling with. I know I'd be bummed out if #2 were the end result but I also know I'm always going to wonder WHAT IF in the event of #1. The pragmatic in me says that a year is a year and I'm wasting time but the idealist keeps saying that time is nothing, timing is everything and even if #2 were the result, at least I will have the satisfaction of having given it a try, you know...

I just can't IMAGINE that something like this would haunt you for more than a few MONTHS, let alone years to come. Eventually most people really resolve this stuff, realize it just doesn't matter in the bigger picture, and move on. Maybe you're just too young to realize it yet, but once you're there for a while, I just can't see why you would let it bug you that much... Like Q is pointing out, the goal is not medical school. The goal is what medical school is going to allow you to do afterwards: practice medicine. Don't let the application process shift your focus away from that.

Then again, if you think taking a year to do some other stuff is going to help you out in OTHER ways besides getting into one of these "Almighty top 15" schools, and you don't mind spending the year and the money doing that knowing it might not happen, we are only talking about deferring.

Law2Doc · Jul 4, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
... A bad fit to me is a much better reason than chasing an expendible, invented ranking system. ... Eventually most people really resolve this stuff, realize it just doesn't matter in the bigger picture, and move on. Maybe you're just too young to realize it yet. ...the goal is not medical school. The goal is what medical school is going to allow you to do afterwards: practice medicine. Don't let the application process shift your focus away from that.... if you think taking a year to do some other stuff is going to help you out in OTHER ways besides getting into one of these "Almighty top 15" schools, and you don't mind spending the year and the money doing that knowing it might not happen, we are only talking about deferring.

Strongly agree with these segments of your post.

shetland · Jul 4, 2006

Dear Monette,

Congrats in your Cdn med school offer!!

With regards to your difficult decision, its ultimately up to you to decide. Write down the list of pros and cons for both paths, then ask family, friends, med students, doctors, uni counselours for advise (which you are doing now).

Then make the decision that you feel is best for you.

Personally, I would take the Cdn med school.

I am sure you know that all Canadian schools are equal, and we are LCME accredited, which we are recognized in the US. I think you mentioned that this particular school has a majority of students going into family medicine, but you dont need to follow them, right? We have students from Manitoba doing 1 or 2 weeks of clinical rotations in internal medicine (endocrinology/ cardiology/ICU) in BC, so you can take other steps to ensure a good match for a residency in your speciality.

That being said, what are the reasons for you not to want to go to this particular school? Is it the teaching methodlogy (ie PBL?)? Is it the -60C cold weather? Is it too expensive? Do you not feel you would fit in? Is it far from family?

Which Cdn uni did you get in?

If you absolutely hate the learning method of the uni, then I would encourage you to apply somewhere else. This is supposed to be one of the best (and fun) years of your life, I wish you all the best. Once again Congrats.

x's from Vancouver

Monette · Jul 5, 2006

QofQuimica said:
I really hate these threads, but I'm going to reply to this one since I've spoken to you before. I think what you really need to do is to figure out what your dream actually is. Is your dream to be a doctor? Fantastic; you're a lucky girl, because the means to that dream is here, within your grasp. Go to your Canadian med school, and four years from now, you're a doctor. Or is your dream to be a medical student at a top school in the US? Those are not the same two dreams, Monette.

Awww, thanks Q! My ultimate dream is to be the best darn doctor that I can be making my penultimate dream attending the best darn school that will take me. Although they are distinct goals, I do not believe they are mutually exclusive. I really do believe that the latter will have some impact, at the very least on the former. I really do think that my "greatness" (I REALLY am not arrogant, I promise, just couldnt think of a greater word 😛) as a doctor will be realized to the fullest extent if I do attend a great school. And, I am not going to lie to you; a part of me does want to go to the top 15 for superficial reasons, but it really is primarily because I think that I, both as a person and a professional will benefit most from such an experience.

QofQuimica said:
I'm not an idealist; I'm a realist. 😉 And as a realist, I agree with the posters who asked why on earth you would risk an acceptance in the hand to pursue such a quixotic dream. I won't lie to you and say that I think that rank is a good reason to decline an acceptance, because I absolutely don't believe that. I think that you'd be making an incredibly foolish, superficial decision, and I won't change my mind about that no matter how many random, unsubstantiated anecdotes to the contrary are posted here on SDN. It's a simple question of values and priorities, and doing what you're contemplating completely goes against mine. But really, my opinion is besides the point, because this is your choice to make, not mine, and YOUR values and priorities are the ones that are at issue here. If school rank means that much to you, and getting into a top American school really IS your dream, then you need to be honest with yourself, and admit that this is what you actually want. Monette is the only one who can figure out who Monette is.

I know that your take on this situation (as well as that of the majority of others) is the most rational/objective/practical given the circumstances I outlined. But I just want to reiterate that I have no intention of risking the acceptance per se, I'm just contemplating deferring - that is all. So I haven't even requested a deferral yet, I still haven't decided if it's worth it. And a big part of that reason is the downsides that people have pointed out and whose weight against the potential payoffs I have been debating ad nauseum with the help of many a carefully crafted PROs and CONs list.

And man oh man, Monette seems to be a very complicated gal right now hence the trouble finding out what Monette wants 🙄 (yay third person)!

Now, maybe this may shed some light on my intense desire to attend a relatively prestigious school. I turned down scholarships at more prestigious schools in Canada than the one I attended for undergrad and I continue to have regrets to this day. Dweller I am, I have no wish to deny this! I feel that although each person really does have the power to chart their own course, I am of the conviction that the atmosphere of your school can have a significant impact on your accomplishing your goals. If for nothing else, opportunities. With regards to this medical school - Ive already alluded to research. Another issue is that after becoming more acquainted with the field of public health, Ive become simply inspired and at this point in time would like to further explore this option. There is no school of public health at this medical school. Another thing I forgot to mention with regards to my concern that the majority of this schools students matched into family medicine: I specifically asked about the match list and how well students were able to secure competitive residency spots at the info session, to which the bubbly-this-is-the-most-fun-med-school-on-earth-and-I-am-the-life-of-that-party med student replied: Well, we dont do as well as [insert Monettes top choice among Canadian medical schools], but we do really well. As you can imagine, that didnt sit particularly well with me.

Essentially, I really do think that if you are surrounded by equally motivated, focused and like-minded students, you will be healthier from a psychological/emotional standpoint which I believe will better enable you to push and challenge yourself and attain your most ambitious goals. I just think that an environment that you think is more conducive to your learning will inevitably help you in said mission and in achieving your dreams.

QofQuimica said:
There is one little thing I'd caution you about, though, and that is to be very sure of what exactly the reality is of these ostensible dream schools. Everyone's been focusing on the chance of you not getting in anywhere if you reapply. But even if things go according to your wildest dreams with your applications, you still risk the possibility of getting to top ranked school X next fall and not liking the students there, either. And what will you do after your dream school has become just another reality nightmare?

You know I have considered this I just conveniently left it out to see if someone would bring it up and sure enough, the voice of reason that is Q does 😉 ! There is the possibility that I may be dreaming up a more romantic image of what med school would be like at a top 15 versus this medical school but my experience in undergrad has solidified my view that even though I may not be as happy at a top 15 as I imagine, I will at least be happier than I will be at this other medical school.

Monette · Jul 5, 2006

almost_there said:
Great point. But she may need to find that out on her own. I certainly was surprised, both positively and negatively, at my experience at different schools, top tier and middle tier.

Do you mind elaborating on this? In what ways were your expectations about the schools different from your impressions after visiting? Also, do you mind naming the schools?

Thanks,
Monette

Monette · Jul 5, 2006

Orthodoc40 said:
See THIS is more of a reason I would say that reapplying might be worth a try. But only might, not definitely. Obviously, it is hard to be sure what things would be like there for you, but it sounds like there's a potential for not being a great fit. A bad fit to me is a much better reason than chasing an expendible, invented ranking system. Still, even at this school you got into, the faculty will still be there, available for you to find a mentor or two that you can work with and pursue what is important to you there (research, for example). Who knows, you could even be an example-setter just because you pursue your interests there against the (seemingly) prevailing attitudes of your classmates!

Then again, see Q's post about that. You will always risk the possibility of 'good fit' whether a school has been assigned some higher number in people's minds or not.

Very true.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world (or in a medical school 😎 ) a la Ghandi 🙂

Orthodoc40 said:
I just can't IMAGINE that something like this would haunt you for more than a few MONTHS, let alone years to come. Eventually most people really resolve this stuff, realize it just doesn't matter in the bigger picture, and move on. Maybe you're just too young to realize it yet, but once you're there for a while, I just can't see why you would let it bug you that much... Like Q is pointing out, the goal is not medical school. The goal is what medical school is going to allow you to do afterwards: practice medicine. Don't let the application process shift your focus away from that.

I think I alluded to this two posts back - with my experience in undergrad... But you're right, maybe the application process has skewed my thinking a bit... I do need to shift more of my focus to the bigger picture, and I say more because I don't think I have neglected it completely...

Orthodoc40 said:
Then again, if you think taking a year to do some other stuff is going to help you out in OTHER ways besides getting into one of these "Almighty top 15" schools, and you don't mind spending the year and the money doing that knowing it might not happen, we are only talking about deferring.

Really, the only reason I'd defer is to reapply - no reason for fooling myself into believing otherwise. So yes, if I don't get in somewhere else, bummer! Total bummer.

Monette

Edit: BTW, SDN really needs a crying smiley. And may I suggest the alias "Monette considers deferral"

Monette · Jul 5, 2006

shetland said:
Dear Monette,

Congrats in your Cdn med school offer!!

With regards to your difficult decision, its ultimately up to you to decide. Write down the list of pros and cons for both paths, then ask family, friends, med students, doctors, uni counselours for advise (which you are doing now).

I haven't really talked to any doctors, not even the one in whose clinic I volunteered/interned for quite some time. I think it's because I know what he'll say - that I'm crazy 🙄

I have a feeling that the profs with whom I have a good relationship will also feel the same way although I think it may be worth a try to have a chat with them... I will, tomorrow (which has already become today) 😱 SDN keeping me up past my bedtime again without my noticing it...

shetland said:
Then make the decision that you feel is best for you.

Personally, I would take the Cdn med school.

I am sure you know that all Canadian schools are equal, and we are LCME accredited, which we are recognized in the US. I think you mentioned that this particular school has a majority of students going into family medicine, but you dont need to follow them, right? We have students from Manitoba doing 1 or 2 weeks of clinical rotations in internal medicine (endocrinology/ cardiology/ICU) in BC, so you can take other steps to ensure a good match for a residency in your speciality.

This is a valid point you bring up. But wouldn't be easier to make those connections in your pre-clinical years? Wouldn't that make life easier and your LORs more glowing?

shetland said:
That being said, what are the reasons for you not to want to go to this particular school? Is it the teaching methodlogy (ie PBL?)? Is it the -60C cold weather? Is it too expensive? Do you not feel you would fit in? Is it far from family?

Which Cdn uni did you get in?

If you absolutely hate the learning method of the uni, then I would encourage you to apply somewhere else. This is supposed to be one of the best (and fun) years of your life, I wish you all the best. Once again Congrats.

x's from Vancouver

I know this thread has gotten kinda long (thanks to genuinely concerned and thoughtful SDNers - I really heart you guys), but I've made allusions to my reasoning in previous posts. If you don't want to read through all that, which is perfectly understandable, basically, I'm concerned about the lack of opportunities that could potentially make my time there more enjoyable and fruitful and my goals more attainable and my personal growth more inevitable. Also, I concluded that it may not be the best fit for me based on the attitudes of current students and the way in which they decided to sell the school. I didn't get the best vibes during interview day and in Canada, as I'm sure you're well-aware, second-look weekends are non-existent.

The weather bit gave me a good chuckle. I may put the super in superficial sometimes, but I try not to go *that* far.

Oh and thanks for the kind words and well wishes. They are deeply appreciated. 🙂 And I've always wanted to visit Van-city. I hear it's absolutely beautiful and that you guys enjoy the health benefits of extremely pure/unpolluted air, a luxury that you are sure to conclude is evidently lacking here after a brief examination of our abysmally dismal lung cancer rates...

Alright, I'm gonna call it a night. Maybe sleeping on it yet again will help clear my head (only I know it won't)! Sweet dreams are most definitely out of the question

Monette

docmode · Jul 5, 2006

Monette,
I just read the entire post. I think you should give it a try. Unless you are an older applicant you can't lose. I think you should be having a true feeling about your MCAT score by now since you are teaching at Kaplan. The only bad thing that could happen is that your MCAT score might not change. I think you should be mentally prepared to have that happen and if it does still be satisfied with deferring. Your GPA is so high that you should get interviews here if your MCAT is at least 33 or 34. It sounds like that is possible with a significant improvement in V. I don't think it is the end of the world to postpone med school for one year, especially if then you will be satisfied you gave it everything you had to go to a top US school. Personally, I think it would be a great change for you, especially since you are so research oriented. Go for it agressively now, I think you can do it. Good luck.

Law2Doc · Jul 5, 2006

Monette said:
My ultimate dream is to be the best darn doctor that I can be making my penultimate dream attending the best darn school that will take me. Although they are distinct goals, I do not believe they are mutually exclusive. I really do believe that the latter will have some impact, at the very least on the former.

You have a warped view of what creates a best doctor and have unrealistic expectations of the top 15 schools. The best doctors in the US come from throughout the ranks of US med schools. The credentials of students in schools 11-15 is indistinguishable from, say, schools 16-20. In some cases, schools ranked lower actually have better teaching because the ranking is driven by research grants and those profs at the higher ranked research schools have a stronger focus on things outside of the classroom. A number of schools outside of the top 20 have match lists as strong as the top 15. I think you are buying in too much into the US News mystique. I also think from your posts that you continue to exude an air of entitlement that may not be borne out in your application cycle, and will be wasting some time and money. But if you think you know best, go for it. :luck:

megaman1x · Jul 5, 2006

Monette - You are Canadian right? And you were accepted into a Canadian school. I think you should accept it. I myself have been accepted into a Canadian Medical schol

Do you want to remain living and practising in Canada after you are done? If so, GO TO THE CANADIAN SCHOOL! If you go to an American school and try to come back for your CARMS matchup for residency, you are going to be low on the list of those considered for residency spots. Top priority is given to CMG's, not IMG's (even considering the new changes in CARMS matchups).

Also as a CMG, you area allowed to practise anywhere in the world and your degree will be accepted without questions. You can go to the UK, Australia, US, anywhere your heart desires and then come BACK to Canada if you wish with no troubles.

However, if you are an American graduate, Canada will consider you an IMG (International Medical Graduate) and trying to practise in Canada will be a rough road for you. They make you jump through hoops, especially considering quite a few residency programs are longer in Canada than they are in the US. This means that even if you have completed your residency in the US, Canada may require you to do an extra year of residency to match up with the CMG's. And you would have a hell of a time trying to get that one extra year of residency with any place in Canada. The ratio right now is 1.5 spots/ Canadian graduate.

Actually I read a few posts up that you will most likely want to practise in the US. However, you said you were uncertain. Why not keep your options open? It's easier as a Canadian doc to go to the US than it is for a US doc to come to Canada (because of different regulatory standards).

PLUS, all 17 med schools in Canada are pretty much on par. Yes there are slight differences between them, but they are all generally considered to be very similar.

By the way, can I ask, which Canadian school did you get acceptance to?

Learfan · Jul 5, 2006

You got into a very good school. Congratulations.

Now stop chasing illusions and dreams and mythical rankings that have zero relation to the business of becoming a licsensed physician and go there. Any attempt to chase a dream could result in the loss of everything you have worked for to date. The medical school application process is fickle beyond all belief. There is no reason to believe that if you have J number of publications or Z MCAT scores that some portal will swing open. People with great MCAT scores, terrific ECs and top notch grades get turned away from schools rated as only fair on whatever rating system you choose to employ. Where you get your basic medical education matters very little. Getting excellent board scores, letters and grades will help you score that dream residency after you are admitted to the profession with an MD. You already have the prize in hand. Accept it and move forward.

I go to a school that was not a dream. It was, however, in state so the tuition is low and the institution places people in good residencies in all areas of medicine. Since I have no desire to enter academic medicine, this worked just fine.

Do not chase dreams based on criteria set by people who do not matter and who you will never meet. Chase reality.

Monette said:
Hi SDN Community,

So here's the deal. This past application cycle, I applied to a few Canadian schools thinking I had no chance of getting in (there's no reapplicant stigma in Canada) and that I would just reapply this year. My ugrad GPA was A-OK so during the year, I focused on improving my ECs (which I have, rather *significantly*) so I'd have a solid application come summertime (now). The only real blemish on my app is my VR score for the MCAT which was 3 points lower than my average practice scores - I think the noise level got to me because I had been doing practice exams alone. So I was planning on re-writing the MCAT in Aug.

The thing is I did get in this year, but I'm not thrilled about the school. Don't get me wrong, I'm super grateful and thrilled I got in, I'm just not that thrilled that I got into *this particular school*. And I know people always say that you should only apply somewhere you'd go but at the time, I really didn't think I was getting in anywhere and just thought I'd give it a very irrational go and maybe get an interview which would be good practice for the following year (I know, very stupid)... Also, there aren't any real rankings in Canada and therefore I should be beyond ecstatic because getting into a Canadian school, is well... getting into a Canadian school... But for some reason, I can't get past the fact that I had my heart set on another school. So I was thinking of deferring BUT if I defer, I won't be able to apply to my dream school since it's in the same province. BUT, I can apply to schools in the States. Now, I'd only attend a top-15 school from the States over the school I've gained admission to and I know I'd be pretty bummed out if I deferred a year to end up to going to this school anyways.

So basically, what would you do in my situation? Has anyone deferred and gotten into a better school or a school that they had preferred over the one they had gotten into the year before? And if not, did you regret deferring?

Also, I'm basically guaranteed 3-4 pubs if I stick around and finish up the research project I'm working on. Do any of you guys know if pubs you got before getting into med school will help you come residency apps time? I'm just trying to justify deferring even if things don't necessarily work out as planned!

Sorry for rambling (I'm up way past my bed time) and I really would appreciate any feedback asap because I'm running out of time.

Also, please don't flame me - I've been wrestling with this decision for some time and am perfectly aware that some may think I'm being ridiculous - in fact, I feel that way some of the times which is why I'm having such a hard time making up my mind... Anyways, I really do need some advice and was hoping you guys would give me your opinions on the situation...

Thanks a tonne!
Monette 🙂

Orthodoc40 · Jul 5, 2006

Monette said:
Very true.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world (or in a medical school 😎 ) a la Ghandi 🙂

Nice - I like that...

Monette said:
I think I alluded to this two posts back - with my experience in undergrad...

Wow - I don't really understand how it could bother any person so much. Even so, Monette, if you defer a year and don't get into one of the schools you're dying to get into, will you be able to put it to rest at that time, or will it still bother you? If you tried 2 more times to get in, would it still bother you? 3 more times?? When are you definitely going to be able to let it go? If you are sure that you could let it go next year at this time, then maybe you need to try it.

Monette said:
But you're right, maybe the application process has skewed my thinking a bit... I do need to shift more of my focus to the bigger picture, and I say more because I don't think I have neglected it completely...

It seems to me that the application process skews most people's thinking to some degree. It's tough to keep focused on the bigger picture. I don't think you've neglected it - I think if you focus on it, you'll find some way to be able to make your decision easier. Bigger picture is usually how the type of struggle you're having right now gets resolved.

BTW, I don't really get the sense you feel entitled to anything, just that you are being bothered by something that really doesn't matter in the bigger picture. And yes, I definitely meant it when I said Congratulations on getting the acceptance!

ssc_396 · Jul 5, 2006

megaman1x said:
However, if you are an American graduate, Canada will consider you an IMG (International Medical Graduate) and trying to practise in Canada will be a rough road for you. They make you jump through hoops, especially considering quite a few residency programs are longer in Canada than they are in the US. This means that even if you have completed your residency in the US, Canada may require you to do an extra year of residency to match up with the CMG's. And you would have a hell of a time trying to get that one extra year of residency with any place in Canada. The ratio right now is 1.5 spots/ Canadian graduate.

That is simply not true. If you do your MD at an American school you can apply in the first round of the match along with Canadian grads in all provinces except Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Nova Scotia. See: http://www.carms.ca/jsp/main.jsp?path=../content/applying/eligibility
You are not treated as an IMG. The only problem is if you do residency in the US, then it can be difficult to practice in Canada.

Monette, as I said in the other forum I turned down an acceptance to a top 10 school in the US to stay in Canada. My reasons for doing this are mainly financial. I did prefer my American option overall, but this was because I liked the city (New York), the patient diversity and variety of options that go along with a huge center. But I decided that these are not worth the extra 150-200K debt I would incur studying in the US. There is no difference at all in the quality of training between any of the top 10 schools I interviewed at and Canadian schools. In fact, I think the clinical exposure is better in Canada. US schools are only vastly superior when it comes to research opportunities. If youre a lab rat it might be worth the extra cost to study in the US.

braluk · Jul 5, 2006

one thing i do ponder is, why did you apply to these schools if you figureed that you would not be very happy being there? Was it a safety that you did not choose to further research in?

Please help me make an important decision!

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Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....

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