Howard, Moorehouse, and Meharry SOM'S....low GPAs?

reach?

haha it's not SDN termanology!
think about it this way:

dream,
reach,
target,
safety

and yes they're all known to be URM schools.

i think all those schools are mostly if not all URM's

and isn't howard a historically black school

musicalMDorDO said:

is it harder for non URM's to get accepted....(i'm asian)

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So then it will probably be a reach for you, unless you were adopted and raised by a URM family.

akademiks1989 said:

So then it will probably be a reach for you, unless you were adopted and raised by a URM family.

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The classes of those schools are just as, if not more, diverse than non HBCU's.

musicalMDorDO said:

F%CK

i'll live with it

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lol who cares it's not like u really wanted to go there anyway. they're just "reaches" for you with respect to numbers . there's tons more schools that are "lower tier" that u can apply to.

these schools accept students with lower gpa's because these students demonstrate more promise to work with underserved communities in their careers as physician. They have it as part of their mission statements, just as top tier schools focus on research in their mission. If you are applying to one of these schools, you better have good evidence that you will be continuing to work with medically underserved groups in the future.

Robizzle said:

lol who cares it's not like u really wanted to go there anyway. they're just "reaches" for you with respect to numbers . there's tons more schools that are "lower tier" that u can apply to.

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It's really not about the school and what "tier" it's placed. The question is can and if "YOU" get in can you matriculate ,graduate and pass the USMLE.When you see a patient they could care less where "YOU" went to school...."just fix 'em where it's hurts"!

They should make them sign binding contracts to work primary care in underserved areas.

Yes, they are typically URM schools, but if you demonstrate genuine interest in attending, of course you have a chance. But if you are going to apply just because you want another safety with low numbers, don't waste your time.

Pinkertinkle said:

They should make them sign binding contracts to work primary care in underserved areas.

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Nah!

Pinkertinkle said:

They should make them sign binding contracts to work primary care in underserved areas.

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Maybe some school should make you sign a binding contract to work primary care in an underserved area, or to do whatever whim the school has only as a condition for allowing you the great honor of studying medicine.

I mean, Hey! If you really want to be a doctor, then you will have to do it on OUR terms, not your own, right? Especially since you are URM, have a GPA <3.5 and MCAT <30. Honestly, what right do you have to decide what specialty you will practice, where you will work and live, and what population of patients you will care for. You silly, inferior pre-med, you. Go outside and leave the more prestigious medical careers to us top-tier students, OK?

musicalMDorDO said:

I looked at the avg stats to these schools and they are pretty low. When it comes time for me to apply I am considering applying to at least one of these as "safety"


Just curious to see if anyone has any explanation to these lower stats?

I have no clue. Seriously.

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dont even go there

akademiks1989 said:

So then it will probably be a reach for you, unless you were adopted and raised by a URM family.

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most of those schools are about 70 - 90% URM.

I am not sure...but the non-URM's that do apply claim to have a committment towards improving healthcare within underserved communities

MedSchoolFool said:

Maybe some school should make you sign a binding contract to work primary care in an underserved area, or to do whatever whim the school has only as a condition for allowing you the great honor of studying medicine.

I mean, Hey! If you really want to be a doctor, then you will have to do it on OUR terms, not your own, right? Especially since you are URM, have a GPA <3.5 and MCAT <30. Honestly, what right do you have to decide what specialty you will practice, where you will work and live, and what population of patients you will care for. You silly, inferior pre-med, you. Go outside and leave the more prestigious medical careers to us top-tier students, OK?

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I don't need to sign a contract because I never fed schools any bull on how I plan on serving the needy. Unfortunately, other people have and should live up to their claims. My theory is anyone at these schools is just as likely to bolt for radiology private practice as anyone anywhere, so we should just cut the BS and either sign the contract or go away.

For the love of God, someone close down this thread immediately.

These schools accept a higher than average % of URMs end of story. You have a chance at these schools, they are very diverse.

Their policies reflect nothing on anything. I can't take another one of these.
-Dr. P.

musicalMDorDO said:

I don't understand, is there something negative about this thread?

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Do you have one of these on?

:Openly wonders why the schools with large number of URMs are the same schools with lower stats then everyplace else?::

Ohh, stupid politically incorrect thoughts

musicalMDorDO said:

I had NO idea that these schools admitted large numbers of URMs! Look at the intial post, I was just wondering why the stats were low.
Their websites do not say "we admit large number of URM's"

Whats the big deal, every time racial things come up its like SDN explodes.

"Multiculturalism": some people are white, some people are black, some people are yellow, some are somewhere in between. Thats bascically it!

Come on people get a grip. I'm sorry if I sound harsh.

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You get a grip! If you truly researched the schools you want to use as your SAFETY schools, you would know that they are all HBCUs(Historically Black Colleges and Universities). Just know where you are about to spend your dime before making application. I'm sure the schools can spot a person who thinks they are doing the school a favor because they showed up. Get real and know yourself because they know you.

Someone needs to have a look at the school's respective MSAR page.

Howard, page 151.
Average GPA: 3.37
Average Science GPA: 3.22
Average MCAT: (V, P, B) 8, 8, 9

'05-'06 first year stats:
Mexican American: 1
Puerto Rican: 1
Other Hispanic: 4
Chinese: 3
Asian Indian: 8
Pakistani: 1
Vietnamese: 3
Other Asian: 1
Black: 88
White: 5

Mrorehouse, page 167


Average GPA: 3.46
Average Science GPA: 3.34
Average MCAT: (V, P, B) 9, 8, 9

05-06 First year stats:
Puerto Rican: 1
Other Hispanic: 2
Chinese: 3
Asian Indian: 6
Pakistani: 1
Filipino:1
Other Asian: 2
Black: 33
White: 8


Meharry, page 327

Average GPA: 3.25
Average Science GPA: 3.07
Average MCAT: (V, P, B) 8, 8, 9

05-06 First year stats:

Cuban: 2
Puerto Rican: 1
Asian Indian: 3
Korean: 1
Native American: 2
Black: 68
White: 12

Siggy said:

:Openly wonders why the schools with large number of URMs are the same schools with lower stats then everyplace else?::

Ohh, stupid politically incorrect thoughts

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Because many URM's did not have the same chance to excell in academia as those in the majority, due to the environment in which they grew up.

Mantis05753 said:

Because many URM's did not have the same chance to excell in academia as those in the majority, due to the environment in which they grew up.

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So, it's ok to have lower standards based on skin color, and adults are to be coddled. I might accept that as a valid answer for high school students (emphasis on might), but we are talking about adults here. At some point you have to pull yourself up. Besides, economic status is much more important then the color and amount of pigment in your skin.

Mantis05753 said:

Because many URM's did not have the same chance to excell in academia as those in the majority, due to the environment in which they grew up.

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if it was truly based on the inability to excell in academia due to environment, then those asians, whites and indians who also grew up in a crap environment should get the same leg up. but they dont.

Someone post a Howard matchlist.

It amazes me that the schools in Puerto Rico, (Ponce, UCC and UPR) never get mentioned in these threads.

Another telling obbservation.

Continue.

Pinkertinkle said:

Someone post a Howard matchlist.

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Why do you care? It's not like your trying to attend any of these schools. Bottom line is that if you don't pass the boards you don't practice anyway.

USMC"DOC" said:

Why do you care? It's not like your trying to attend any of these schools. Bottom line is that if you don't pass the boards you don't practice anyway.

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I just want to see, is that a crime? I may consider applying if the match list is impressive.

Siggy said:

So, it's ok to have lower standards based on skin color, and adults are to be coddled. I might accept that as a valid answer for high school students (emphasis on might), but we are talking about adults here. At some point you have to pull yourself up. Besides, economic status is much more important then the color and amount of pigment in your skin.

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That's what I mean, many URM's are of a lower economic status in where they do not recieve the same quality education as the rest of us.

Mantis05753 said:

That's what I mean, many URM's are of a lower economic status in where they do not recieve the same quality education as the rest of us.

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1. Not all URMs are of the lower tiers of society.
2. Not everyone who is not a URM is from the middle or upper class.
3. Lower standards based on skin color is saying that people of certain skin colors simply can't hack it on their own.

These are all reasons why if a boost should be given, then it should be for economic status and not skin color.

Siggy said:

1. Not all URMs are of the lower tiers of society.
2. Not everyone who is not a URM is from the middle or upper class.
3. Lower standards based on skin color is saying that people of certain skin colors simply can't hack it on their own.

These are all reasons why if a boost should be given, then it should be for economic status and not skin color.

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You are missing the point!
It's not the fact of being an URM, it's the fact that the opportunity to attend schools other than the HBCU's have not always been there. The schools are there for a reason.Everyone should be a capable doctor no matter where they attended school or skin color.Don't believe that all doctors are great because they attended an Ivy League school.

Siggy said:

1. Not all URMs are of the lower tiers of society.
2. Not everyone who is not a URM is from the middle or upper class.
3. Lower standards based on skin color is saying that people of certain skin colors simply can't hack it on their own.

These are all reasons why if a boost should be given, then it should be for economic status and not skin color.

Click to expand...

Economic status often correlates closely to race. If you randomly select 100 URMs and a 100 non-URMs, most of the URMs will be lower class, while most non-URMs will be middle and upper class. Thats just the way it is, and these schools attempt to give everyone the oppurtunity to become a physician if that is their dream.

Mantis05753 said:

Because many URM's did not have the same chance to excell in academia as those in the majority, due to the environment in which they grew up.

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here we go again

musicalMDorDO said:

I had NO idea that these schools admitted large numbers of URMs! Look at the intial post, I was just wondering why the stats were low.
Their websites do not say "we admit large number of URM's"

Whats the big deal, every time racial things come up its like SDN explodes.

"Multiculturalism": some people are white, some people are black, some people are yellow, some are somewhere in between. Thats bascically it!

Come on people get a grip. I'm sorry if I sound harsh.

Click to expand...

It's not your fault.

Nothing said in your original post is offensive whatsoever.

The reason I made my post condemning this thread was only because people tend to turn these threads into a long-winded and sometimes heinous debate on affirmative action and its effectiveness.

To answer your question, these schools are certainly worth applying for. They accept all different types of people, and if you have the stats and the personality, I'm sure that you have a good chance.

I don't mean to offend you...I'm simply warning you that these threads tend to become battlegrounds on the topic of affirmative action and URMs.
-Dr. P.

Pinkertinkle said:

I don't need to sign a contract because I never fed schools any bull on how I plan on serving the needy. Unfortunately, other people have and should live up to their claims. My theory is anyone at these schools is just as likely to bolt for radiology private practice as anyone anywhere, so we should just cut the BS and either sign the contract or go away.

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I seriously doubt you plan on going into a medschool interview proclaiming your disinterest in serving the "needy". I would suspect that when it comes interview time you will gauge yourself to say whatever it is that you think the interviewer wants to hear.

Whether it's Harvard, Hopkins, or a HBCU, none of us are sitting in an interview talking about prestige, money, fame, lifestyle, or any of that. We're all hyping how we want to serve society, how we want to help others, how we are committed to the more noble aspects of medicine.

So what if, in the end, you were to be held to the sentiments you convey during your interviews? What if when match season comes you are presented with a video of your medical school interview, and the president of the Match (I don't know if there is one, but, whatever) tells you that your specialty choice has to reflect what you said in your interview?

I bet you'd be pretty pissed off to be limited like that.

Let up on folks. That's all I"m saying. Stop judging so harshly when I'm sure that you yourself have done, and will do, something very analogous. Not only in medschool, but in life.

My theory is that people are allowed to change their minds, especially when it comes to choosing the job they will work for the rest of their lives. This has gotten out of proportion, but SDN is rampant with so many pretentious, overblown, prejudiced, big-brother type of sentiments that sometimes I just have to comment.

There are primary care contracts offered by many med schools, not just HBCU's. But those contracts also provide for a free or greatly reduced tuition rate in exchange for the primary care commitment.

Mantis05753 said:

That's what I mean, many URM's are of a lower economic status in where they do not recieve the same quality education as the rest of us.

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Within my high school, the URM's sat at the bottom/middle of the class. They had the exact same opportunities, but they just didn't give a rat's ass about schooling. They'd rather deal drugs and play basketball than study.

dentstd said:

Within my high school, the URM's sat at the bottom/middle of the class. They had the exact same opportunities, but they just didn't give a rat's ass about schooling. They'd rather deal drugs and play basketball than study.

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hahahaha...and ppl wonder why we need more minorities in med school...why we need a different perspective when learning about medicine and treating patients...

i have nothing really to add to the AA thread anymore i have no reasons or explanations about why our averages and gpa may be lower on average than whites...i am no longer defending why that may or may not matter...adcoms seem to think we belong there and whether you (collective you this part isn't aimed at the poster i quoted above) all like it or not...we are getting accepted...

so hopefully we will sit together in class...and i can tell you how my friends and family and i spent our high school careers, college as well ...and hopefully i can change your opinion before you reach the patient population... because whether you mean to or not...this idea you have of the blacks in your class...will be easily detectable by your patients ( mainly minority ones)...even if you are polite to them and smile at them ...it may even be relfected in your care, i don't think on a huge level like... u aren't going to perform life saving sugery on them because they are black, but on a small level ...even subconsciously... without you knowing it...because if you don't know that your above post is horribly insensitive... i don't trust your judgement on the things you may think about my family members sitting in front of you as your patient

i am not calling you racist because i don't know you...but i can't wait to sit next to you and ppl who share these same kind of thoughts in med school...



oooh and to answer the original question...u can apply to the hbcus if you want to...if you feel like you will fit in with them..and if they agree they will accept you...if you are only doing it as a safetly school they will be able to tell...like most other med schools

....my best friend and i went through this process together...and he looked at howard and morehouse and said.. i would go there but they would never accept me... there are only like 10 white ppl out of a class of 100...i smiled at him and said that's 10%... that is a better representation than i have at most of the other schools we are both applying to...

p.s. i am a black female and he is a rich white male...

good luck...

hahaha i didn't realize how old this thread was...

musicalMDorDO said:

is it harder for non URM's to get accepted....(i'm asian)

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Don't believe the hype. My ex-girlfriend who is white was accepted to Meharry. You just have to show that your goals in the medical profession correspond to the mission statements of these schools.

keepdreaming said:

if it was truly based on the inability to excell in academia due to environment, then those asians, whites and indians who also grew up in a crap environment should get the same leg up. but they dont.

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How do you know? Conjecture?

Siggy said:

1. Not all URMs are of the lower tiers of society.
2. Not everyone who is not a URM is from the middle or upper class.
3. Lower standards based on skin color is saying that people of certain skin colors simply can't hack it on their own.

These are all reasons why if a boost should be given, then it should be for economic status and not skin color.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with this. There were a number of URMs in my high school (which at the time was rated as one of the best public high schools in the state, above most private high schools) that got into top schools with mediocre grades, even though they lived down the street from me and had the same opportunities as I had. I don't see how that makes any sense at all. Now, I can understand if a student coming from an economically disadvantaged area is given a chance in college, but then once they're in college, shouldn't they be considered on equal footing to everyone else in that school, seeing as they now have the same resources and chances as other people attending that school? I really don't think it is right to continually say such students didn't have the same advantages, when at some point those advantages were adjusted for by accepting the students into that college. I hope that made sense.

doinmybest5840 said:

I totally agree with this. There were a number of URMs in my high school (which at the time was rated as one of the best public high schools in the state, above most private high schools) that got into top schools with mediocre grades, even though they lived down the street from me and had the same opportunities as I had. I don't see how that makes any sense at all. Now, I can understand if a student coming from an economically disadvantaged area is given a chance in college, but then once they're in college, shouldn't they be considered on equal footing to everyone else in that school, seeing as they now have the same resources and chances as other people attending that school? I really don't think it is right to continually say such students didn't have the same advantages, when at some point those advantages were adjusted for by accepting the students into that college. I hope that made sense.

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1. Everyone has an anecdotal story of URMs with mediocre stats that got into great schools. That's cool and all, but for a second, try and leave the bubble of your life and think about things on a larger scale.

2. Who is to say that the disadvantages that a student faces cease once they get to college? For many students, they never stop.

I don't think it's anecdotal when I could easily list 20-30 students from my high school and another 20-30 or more at my university that clearly were accepted for a reason other than their socioeconomic standing or academic abilities.

I'm sure for some students, some, many, or even all (although I find it unlikely) of the disadvantages may continue, but I also believe that there are a good number of such students who are able to move beyond those problems and achieve their goals with their own hard work and abilities.

I think it is offensive to URMs to continually give them these chances as if to say they could never make it on their own. Who's to say some of them couldn't overcome the problems they've had, but are too lazy, or too involved in activities that aren't pertinent to their goals, etc.? I am by no means implying that all such students are lazy or poorly driven or whatever, but surely those types of students exist, URM or otherwise.

My point is that not all URMs experience the disadvantages that affirmative action claims to adjust for, and not all URMs are unable to overcome those disadvantages when placed in a quality learning environment at a good college. If the problem doesn't apply to everyone in that group, why should the solution?

I love how the posts which make excellent points do not get responded to by these idiots who claim to be caring compassionate people yet spend time on SDN bitchin about AA and how URM will make horrible physicians bc of xyz. If interviewers saw half the posts these internet thugs posted they would have zero chance of admission because no one appreciates intolerance and disrespect as qualities of their next medical class. Instead of worrying about why URM get into med school with different stats then yours, concentrate on your own file and bettering yourself. Maybe the interviwers can see through the front you put up regardless of how you attempt to disguise your true character. The MCAT doesn't test your interpersonal skills or compassion for the community. Your LORs and PS may hint at it, but ultimatley, adcoms are trained to perceive excellence from mediocrity and a 42T and 3.9 doesn't necessarily scream world class physician.

doinmybest5840 said:

I don't think it's anecdotal when I could easily list 20-30 students from my high school and another 20-30 or more at my university that clearly were accepted for a reason other than their socioeconomic standing or academic abilities.

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My bad, i didn't know that the 40-60 students you can name represent the thousands of URM applicants. And to refute that, I know plenty of URMs with amazing stats that were shunned by top schools. Where was AA in that situation?

I'm sure for some students, some, many, or even all (although I find it unlikely) of the disadvantages may continue, but I also believe that there are a good number of such students who are able to move beyond those problems and achieve their goals with their own hard work and abilities.

I think it is offensive to URMs to continually give them these chances as if to say they could never make it on their own. Who's to say some of them couldn't overcome the problems they've had, but are too lazy, or too involved in activities that aren't pertinent to their goals, etc.? I am by no means implying that all such students are lazy or poorly driven or whatever, but surely those types of students exist, URM or otherwise.

My point is that not all URMs experience the disadvantages that affirmative action claims to adjust for, and not all URMs are unable to overcome those disadvantages when placed in a quality learning environment at a good college. If the problem doesn't apply to everyone in that group, why should the solution?

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True. And not all URMs benefit from AA, and furthermore, not all URMs are have lower stats.