Telling a PD that they're your #1

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Emergen-C

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I have heard from a couple of people that this is not a good idea b/c there is some degree of playing hard-to-get involved...i.e. that even for your #1 you shoudl say "you're one of my top choices".
Does anyone have any explanation or stories/experiences with this being true or false?

Argh! Why can't we just all rank who we want in that order and cut the recruiting/brown-nosing/mindgame crap!!!!!!

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I'm actually more worried about telling my safety net that they're a top place in my eyes. Is that a bad thing?
 
I'm actually more worried about telling my safety net that they're a top place in my eyes. Is that a bad thing?

If your safety net aren't in your top 3/4, it depends on if you consider yourself an ethical person.
 
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Well, they wouldn't be a net then would they? They would just be another one of the rungs.
No, one of the places that apparently likes me, the interview went well, etc, is just not one of the places I want to be absolutely. But I damn sure would rather be there than scramble. If I don't go there, them ranking me highly won't hurt them. But if I don't call them, they might not rank me highly.
Oh no, now I've gone cross-eyed.
 
I have no idea how it could hurt you if you tell a program they are your number 1 choice? If they have 12 spots, as long as they rank you in their top 12 students, whether number 1 or 12, you are in. I cant see the logic in a program decreasing your ranking any further just because you are ranking them highly. I told Cincinnati they are my number one, of course I said it in a slightly different fashion (you are the best program for me to train in-or something like that).
 
Some people have said that if you tell them, you lose in the game, because they know they can get you, so they rank one of their "stretches" higher, and maybe rank you just out of the first tier. Now, I have no evidence that this actually occurs, and programs rank just like us, in that they want the best people for the job that is the best fit, not just the best person total.
 
Some people have said that if you tell them, you lose in the game, because they know they can get you, so they rank one of their "stretches" higher, and maybe rank you just out of the first tier. Now, I have no evidence that this actually occurs, and programs rank just like us, in that they want the best people for the job that is the best fit, not just the best person total.

See that doesn't make any sense to me. What is the benefit to ranking a stretch low to begin with. Even if my app sucked and I sucked and I thought I had no chance of getting into Cinci, I should still rank them number 1 if that's my top choice. It has no impact of whether I get into one of my lower programs, unless I get into one of my higher choices. Same for them. If they want you more than that other person, then they should rank you within their guaranteed spots available. Its really all irrelevant. My only hope of telling someone they're my number one is to express my interest. It probably makes no difference and I didnt really want to mail out a bunch of letters, but because it's the norm I was afraid that if I didn't the programs may think I'm not interested and rank me lower. Which again shouldn't make any difference. Even if I don't want them, they should still rank me with regard to how they want me. If we just rank where we want to go and they just rank who they want in that order we are both fine.
 
Some people have said that if you tell them, you lose in the game, because they know they can get you, so they rank one of their "stretches" higher, and maybe rank you just out of the first tier. Now, I have no evidence that this actually occurs, and programs rank just like us, in that they want the best people for the job that is the best fit, not just the best person total.

That's exactly what I had heard too... if any PDs or residents want to comment, it would be much appreciated!
 
See that doesn't make any sense to me. What is the benefit to ranking a stretch low to begin with. Even if my app sucked and I sucked and I thought I had no chance of getting into Cinci, I should still rank them number 1 if that's my top choice. It has no impact of whether I get into one of my lower programs, unless I get into one of my higher choices. Same for them. If they want you more than that other person, then they should rank you within their guaranteed spots available. Its really all irrelevant. My only hope of telling someone they're my number one is to express my interest. It probably makes no difference and I didnt really want to mail out a bunch of letters, but because it's the norm I was afraid that if I didn't the programs may think I'm not interested and rank me lower. Which again shouldn't make any difference. Even if I don't want them, they should still rank me with regard to how they want me. If we just rank where we want to go and they just rank who they want in that order we are both fine.

This was a common question is some of last years threads, but here's a few observations I will share about the process. Let me start out by basically saying I agree with crewmaster:

1) Rank programs in the order you want to go to them.
2) Places will rank you in the order they want you. No exceptions.
3) Send a letter if the place is truly your #1 but realize it will likely have minimal effect. In my discussion with a few PD's, they probably get 30-40 of these each cycle and most at least say they disregard them. However, I have been told it will NEVER hurt your application (as long as you don't send "you're my #1's" to everyone) and I can't imagine it doesn't have some unconsious effect. Basically, IMO it's worth doing because you've come so far not to leave anything off the table.
 
I have not told anyone where I stand. I actually have felt that sucking up would look bad. I would think it would be annoying. I could be wrong though.
 
I have heard from a couple of people that this is not a good idea b/c there is some degree of playing hard-to-get involved...i.e. that even for your #1 you shoudl say "you're one of my top choices".
Does anyone have any explanation or stories/experiences with this being true or false?

Argh! Why can't we just all rank who we want in that order and cut the recruiting/brown-nosing/mindgame crap!!!!!!

That's right you gotta flip the script on those B!4ch#s tell them who's their daddy
 
I have not told anyone where I stand. I actually have felt that sucking up would look bad. I would think it would be annoying. I could be wrong though.

Yeah, I really hate this part. I don't want to call them, but I fear not calling them is the same as not sending a thank you card. Sort of like, it won't help you to do it, but they might recognize the absence.

Of course, it might already be too late for those places that are done interviewing. DAMMIT!
 
I sent out emails to my top 3. All were very well received. In fact, I was a little surprised by the responses. I'm 100% sure they didn't help me at all, but I'm pretty confident they didn't hurt me.
 
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I need to email my top choices...I have yet to do this. I was hoping I'd get to do more than 1 second look, but it's not looking likely at this point. I also have to finish some of my thank you cards. :eek:
 
when r u guys posting your ROLs?

I have a feeling Cincy will be a lot of peoples #1.. should be interesting.. I dont think anyone that posts frequently on here had them #1 last yr.. it just shows how things vary yr to yr based on who posts on here.
 
I probably will post mine a few days before the deadline. I'm giving myself until 1 week before the deadline to have a finalized list. My list is not yet set in stone, therefore no posting just yet.
 
Cool! Will you "warming" up for the big one? GO BEARS!
 
Cool! Will you "warming" up for the big one? GO BEARS!

Still in bed watching NFL Countdown...party starts at 330...heading out at 200 to make my dips and start drinking! If they win, we'll proabably head out to celebrate. Regardless, tomorrow will not be fun when I show up to work. :D
 
Still in bed watching NFL Countdown...party starts at 330...heading out at 200 to make my dips and start drinking! If they win, we'll proabably head out to celebrate. Regardless, tomorrow will not be fun when I show up to work. :D

Its not a day off? You have a sick day tomorrow would be a good time to take it IMO!

It is weird being down here, a bunch of my old buddies have things going on.... I prob was invited to 10-12 SB parties but I will be home with my fam and best friend..
 
The bars in chicago will be PACKED!
 
Still in bed watching NFL Countdown...party starts at 330...heading out at 200 to make my dips and start drinking! If they win, we'll proabably head out to celebrate. Regardless, tomorrow will not be fun when I show up to work. :D

Aren't you on Rads? Or do you still have some time left on ortho?
 
I love how we just took over a thread to celebrate the superbowl! I'm still on ortho. The problem is two of the PA's had already scheduled the day off, before I showed up. We're going to be short staffed anyways. Besides, I'm probably going to miss the last two days for a second look. It's only a half day tomorrow anyways (clinic in the morning).
 
cool.. you know the importance of the SB is whats going on here.. ok.. we can take the rest of this to the path thread... by socute..
 
when r u guys posting your ROLs?

I have a feeling Cincy will be a lot of peoples #1.. should be interesting.. I dont think anyone that posts frequently on here had them #1 last yr.. it just shows how things vary yr to yr based on who posts on here.

Carolinas seemed to be a popular #1 last year on these parts. I loved it there too. Makes this very hard.....
 
Carolinas seemed to be a popular #1 last year on these parts. I loved it there too. Makes this very hard.....


Hmm, I wonder if that means we're all subconsciously changing our rank lists due to peer pressure?

Or maybe all of the faculty and resources at Carolinas that made them so popular last year left and went to Cincy. Yeah, that must be it.

By the way, is anybody else tired of explaining to their Ivy League crazy classmates why, even though your medical school record is pretty good, you're only interviewing at second rate state schools like Cincy and Indy and crummy community programs like Carolinas and Maine when all of them got *much* better interviews at MGH and Penn?
 
Or maybe all of the faculty and resources at Carolinas that made them so popular last year left and went to Cincy. Yeah, that must be it.

Is that true?

I also heard that a lot of the UChicago faculty bolted for UPenn last year. I wish this could be verified.

And I don't care about my classmates' opinions.
 
I always have weird feelings about posting my ROL before match day. Just because....
 
Before match day? I can understand not wanting it posted prior to certification time, but match day?
 
Agreed. I will post mine when rank lists are certified (Feb 21). In reality, I bet most programs have lists in a several days before then.
 
Agreed. I will post mine when rank lists are certified (Feb 21). In reality, I bet most programs have lists in a several days before then.

Correct. We won't spend the last week obsessing and changing the list every 2 hours.

See the applicant::scared:
 
How about telling the CHAIRMAN they're number 1! Did that one too!
 
I think some programs want to be told they're #1.

Some PD's actually say: "we want people who specifically want to come here", "we don't want someone who just happens to match here".

Many places had long-written "Thank You" cards conspicuously laid out on their desk during the interview.

No, I did not sent any "#1" or many "thank you" letters and yes I do think that will unfortunately hurt my chances. But I did travel across the country on debt, did try to do my best in the interview, and would be very happy to match in one of these programs.
Just keeping it simple.

But I do believe there are 'certain programs' that seek that interest.
 
Applicants should rank their programs in the order they want them. If you really want to go to program A, but rank B first because you think you're more likely to get in, then you'll kick yourself for the next 3-4 years wondering if you could have gotten into A.

Programs rank applicants in the order they want them. It can't hurt to communicate your interest with your #1 program, as they also want people who want to be there (happy residents make for happy staff, etc.). Don't tell more than one program that they are #1 - they talk to each other, they know where you match in the end, and you will forever be labeled a liar. EM is still a small world ...

My $0.02 ...:luck:
 
I have heard, true or untrue, that some PDs will raise your rank if they know you are ranking them #1 (doubt this happens at many places). I have been told this is done so they don't go as far down on their list. What is the point of this? Do PDs talk about how far down they usually go? Other than the PDs personal ego (which should really be affected anyways because they can't control the city they're in and factors like that) why would they care? Just curious.
 
I am curious about that too. I have heard residents talk about how far down "the list" their program had to go to fill....Is this information readily available or is it gossip?
 
I have heard, true or untrue, that some PDs will raise your rank if they know you are ranking them #1 (doubt this happens at many places). I have been told this is done so they don't go as far down on their list. What is the point of this? Do PDs talk about how far down they usually go? Other than the PDs personal ego (which should really be affected anyways because they can't control the city they're in and factors like that) why would they care? Just curious.


there is another thread that addresses this, but I can tell you that I have had 2 PDs tell me they bumped people up their list because the applicant indicated they really really wanted to come. I believe it absolutely happens. Think about it....you have probably 40 - 50 applicants in your top stack that are all very similar. Maybe one guy has done some published research, maybe another guy did some kinda cool leadership activity or something, but in all the top half of canidates are very similar in the real measurables- grades, scores, letters, and personality. So, if you can convince somebody you really want to be somewhere, and you would be excited to be there and enthuse both the staff and your fellow residents, I am nearly certain this would be something to be considered. People value happy residents, because they work harder and are in general much more appreciative of their oppurtunity. Of course, this only works as long as the PD doesn't have 40 people emailing him saying they love his program and would be stoked to go there (see Carolines, Vandy, etc).
 
I wonder since there is discussion about different candidates between PDs, do PDs talk to each other about how they might rank someone. You would think they would on some level and could that discussion influence the others ROL?
 
I wonder since there is discussion about different candidates between PDs, do PDs talk to each other about how they might rank someone. You would think they would on some level and could that discussion influence the others ROL?

I'm well aware they do talk amongst each other in other fields (I don't know about EM specifically).

I've heard it getting ridiculous, ie, one applicant can be stamped as a 'bad' dude or total stud at one program and they spread it around -> and other people just follow the pack like rats in their rankings.

Uh hello, how about programs thinking for themselves?
Hopefully there's a lot more sense in EM. But I can't answer for EM PD's specifically.:luck:
 
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