Any one applying to VCU post-bac for FALL 2007

Are you talking about psot-bac or basic health science certificate program (graduate)? I did the Certificate program last year if you have questions. I am now at MCV (aka VCU) med school.

Instatewaiter said:

Are you talking about psot-bac or basic health science certificate program (graduate)? I did the Certificate program last year if you have questions. I am now at MCV (aka VCU) med school.

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congrats! You got into med school after one year? I applied to their as well. Care to post ur experience/suggestions ?

Again I am talking about the graduate-level Basic Health Science certificate program. Is that what you guys are asking about?

This is not the undergrad program where you take the pre-recs.

I'm going to apply to the certificate program (Microbio) as soon as my slow-as-molasses prof finishes my rec letter. The completed app is just sitting on my desk next to me, looking lonely.

What kind of turnaround does VCU have, anyways? I don't want to still be waiting to hear in May!

In terms of programs to choose:

I would recommend applying to at least 3 programs and then choosing once you find out which ones you got into. The three programs that I would recommend are: Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry

First semester, all 6 programs take the same core classes (biochem and mammalian phys, 5 credits each). In addition each program takes a program-specific course.

Anatomy is the 'hardest' program because their program-specific course is Histology. This is 6 credits and is very time consuming. There are strong positives for this program though. Traditionally this is the program that most med school acceptances come from. Some of this is because the people in this program have higher stats than people in the other programs (ie harder to get into). Dr L. the head of the program also will push for his 'top' students to get into medical school and they usually do. They also have a major test bank and do a good job of advising their students

Physiology takes drug dependence or biostats as their 'program specific' course. They also have a bank of old tests that you can look at. There are no major posistives or negatives about this program.

Biochem gives you a lot of leeway in terms of courses. They don't have a program-specific course so you can take what ever you want. I ended up taking a 1-credit biochem journal club for a total of 12 credits. I was worried that this would be too light of a course load but talked to the old dean of MCV (aka VCU) med school admisisions. She told me that the course load does not matter provided you get A's in the shared courses (biochem and physiology). Biochem does very little advising and does not have a test bank so if you do this program you will have to get old tests from someone else (graduate student union has some but you have to join).

I had friends who were taking Hisology (anat program) and this really took away from thier ability to get As in the biochem and physiology courses. They eneded up doing poorly in all classes (Bs) just becuase of the extra time commitment. Personally I recommend the biochem program just because it is an easier transition and you will have an easier time getting all As w/ 12 credits. However, with 12 credits if you don't get all As you wont get in.


Advice for The Actual Program

The program is very hard. It is not conceptually difficult but it is a lot of work. The volume of info is overwhelming so the program moves very quickly. I went to an excellent undergrad school and felt that this was a major step up from Ugrad. Med school was no harder than this program (and in some cases much easier). Basically you will go to class for ~4 hours a day and you need to study 4 hours a day. Treat it like a job (8 hours of work) and you will do fine.


dont screw around before the first test. There were a lot of people who were not ready for the first set of exams. They basically bombed them and ruined their chances of ever going to medical school.

Only 2/3 of the people who start the program end up finishing the program. Some fail out and others must withdraw b/c they are near failing. To complete the program you must have at least a 3.0. Make sure you work hard.

VCU does not give +'s or -'s. That means an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A. A few points can mean a precipitous drop in GPA.

Only first semester grades matter to get in this year. This is because the medical school Adcom will make a decision whether to let you in BEFORE you finish second semester. Thus do really really well first semester. A 4.0 in the first semester will gaurantee you admisson. A 3.0 will gaurantee you won't get in. To be in good shape you need at least a 3.7. Shoot for a 4.0.

If you don't get in, the program easily turns into a masters program w/ 1 more year of research. However, your best shot at getting in is from the 1 year of the certificate program.

Since the admission requirements are low, there are a lot of people who are just not able to perform at the level the program asks you to. Make sure you some prepared to do work and you should be fine.

If you have more specific questions post-em here

I'm pretty sure I just used 1 application but I had to separately mail the personal statement to each program. I think the VCU grad office just xeroxed my LORs and sent them to the different departments.

They may have changed this since I applied so you should probably just call them.

Hi...i'm applying now too, just working on that personal statement. can you tell me exactly how the MCV linkage works? how heavily do they weigh your success in the program vs. previous undergraduate grades in determinig admission through the linkage? i'm just wondering if my <3.0 gpa would qualify...if i do hopefully get into the certificate program.

Instatewaiter said:

Advice for The Actual Program

The program is very hard. It is not conceptually difficult but it is a lot of work. The volume of info is overwhelming so the program moves very quickly. I went to an excellent undergrad school and felt that this was a major step up from Ugrad. Med school was no harder than this program (and in some cases much easier). Basically you will go to class for ~4 hours a day and you need to study 4 hours a day. Treat it like a job (8 hours of work) and you will do fine.

VCU does not give +'s or -'s. That means an 89 is a B and a 90 is an A. A few points can mean a precipitous drop in GPA.

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The no + or - sounds, um, frankly awful. There's no cushion there at all!

And can I ask, did you go to UG in VA? Just curious.

marinak said:

Hi...i'm applying now too, just working on that personal statement. can you tell me exactly how the MCV linkage works? how heavily do they weigh your success in the program vs. previous undergraduate grades in determinig admission through the linkage? i'm just wondering if my <3.0 gpa would qualify...if i do hopefully get into the certificate program.

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Well technically MCV is the same school as VCU. Medical college of virginia and RPI (richmond profesional institute) were merged in 68 to create VCU. By convention (and law), people referred to the medical school as MCV and the undergrad college as VCU. MCV retained its name until recently when the VCU president changed the official name to VCU to create a unified university. There is a lot of controversy regarding this since VCU (what most people consider the undergrad institution) traditionally has not been thought of very highly. So, doctors who came out of MCV did not want to be associated with VCU.

So back to your original question: There is no linkage per se but if you do get a 4.0 in that first semester you are pretty much guaranteed to get in. You take classes in the same buildings as the medical students and the program is regarded highly by the medical school. The Ugrad grades are taken into consideration but if you do well enough in the program, you can over come them. Good MCAT will definitely help too.

ssquared said:

The no + or - sounds, um, frankly awful. There's no cushion there at all!

And can I ask, did you go to UG in VA? Just curious.

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Yeah I found out about the +/- thing during the middle of the program I had never heard of this but you get used to it. I guess it makes less of a difference over the course of 4 years but over 1 year it can really skew your grades one way or the other. I guess you perspective will depend on which side of the line you fall. It makes it easier to get a 4.0 but if you fall on the B side it can be devastating to the GPA.

And I went to UVA.

anyone know the website for this program, and the deadline for applications? thanks!

The deadline is sometime in june, search around with their website http://www.vcu.edu/

Instatewaiter said:

I'm pretty sure I just used 1 application but I had to separately mail the personal statement to each program. I think the VCU grad office just xeroxed my LORs and sent them to the different departments.

They may have changed this since I applied so you should probably just call them.

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Hey Instatewaiter...i was just wondering if there was a glide year, or if you got in right after the year of certificate..thank you!

Hey Instatewaiter,

When you said "There is no linkage per se but if you do get a 4.0 in that first semester you are pretty much guaranteed to get in." What you do you mean? do you need to do your AAMC applicant again or the medical school just takes you directly? How about the MCAT score? Do you need to take the MCAT again or you don't care as long as you got 4.0 in your first semester.

Thank you

holycow said:

Hey Instatewaiter...i was just wondering if there was a glide year, or if you got in right after the year of certificate..thank you!

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I had no glide year. I was put on the wait list (hence the name instatewaiter) since my year was especially hard to get in. I was told by Dr H, the old dean, that any other year I would have immediately been accepted. Regardless I got in on May 15th

Hopeatlast said:

Hey Instatewaiter,

When you said "There is no linkage per se but if you do get a 4.0 in that first semester you are pretty much guaranteed to get in." What you do you mean? do you need to do your Amcas applicant again or the medical school just takes you directly? How about the MCAT score? Do you need to take the MCAT again or you don't care as long as you got 4.0 in your first semester.

Thank you

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You need to do the AAMC application and the secondary and you need an MCAT score. You apply just like you would for any other school but if you manage a 4.0 you will pretty much be guaranteed in (there was one person I can think of who bombed his interview and didnt get in his first year applying but got in the following year).

If your MCAT is terribly low you probably should retake it. It definitely helps the cause to have a higher MCAT (I had a 33). If you are around a 29 or 30 I wouldnt worry too much. A 4.0 will overcome a lower MCAT however I would not count on getting a 4.0.

Getting a 4.0 is very, very difficult. There were very few who ended up doing that well my year (about than 5-6 out of 100).

is there anything in particular the admissions people look for at VCU? im ready to submit my material and want to know if i should discuss anything else in my personal statement?

nraouf said:

is there anything in particular the admissions people look for at VCU? im ready to submit my material and want to know if i should discuss anything else in my personal statement?

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No not really anything they specifically look for. Honestly should not be terribly hard to get into one of the programs. Anatomy is the hardest to get in and is by no means a guaranteed acceptance but the others should not be terribly difficult to get into.

Just write an essay that honestly and completely answers their prompt and you should be fine. The hard part is not getting in to the program, the hard part is doing well.

Good luck
~instate

Does it matter if you're an out of state applicant both for the certificate program and for admission to MCV if you do well in the program? Would it be harder if your OSA? Also, I had a question about LOR's for the program. Does it matter from which professors they come from; science or humanities? I'm looking at this program closely but have some reservations becasue I would be OSA.

Instatewaiter (or anybody else in the know).... I'm a bit confused: the program appears to require certain pre-req. requirements in terms of bio, chem, etc.... I thought this program is a post-bac program for those with little or no science courses?

Ok, well for the program for those of us with little or no science background it says that 25 hours of 200 level credits must be completed, however BIO I and II and Gen Chem I and II aren't 200 level or above so I don't get the program. Are they basically requiring a lot more courses than med. school admissions requires? If this is the case there is no way someone could do it in a year.

Anyone?

Gooble said:

Ok, well for the program for those of us with little or no science background it says that 25 hours of 200 level credits must be completed, however BIO I and II and Gen Chem I and II aren't 200 level or above so I don't get the program. Are they basically requiring a lot more courses than med. school admissions requires? If this is the case there is no way someone could do it in a year.

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From what I understand, you have to complete BIO I and II and Chem I and II AND Precalc before you start your 25 hours. Very little chance of completing the program in a year. . .I think what you say is the case - they are bulking up your transcript with more difficult courses so you have a better chance of getting into med school. But man it's cheap. Richmond is cheap, too.

Yeah, I just don't feel like taking 2 years since I'd likely live on my own away from my wife while she stays in DC.

Heinz57 said:

From what I understand, you have to complete BIO I and II and Chem I and II AND Precalc before you start your 25 hours. Very little chance of completing the program in a year. . .I think what you say is the case - they are bulking up your transcript with more difficult courses so you have a better chance of getting into med school. But man it's cheap. Richmond is cheap, too.

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how cheap is it?

Gooble said:

Instatewaiter (or anybody else in the know).... I'm a bit confused: the program appears to require certain pre-req. requirements in terms of bio, chem, etc.... I thought this program is a post-bac program for those with little or no science courses?

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Yeah VCU calls both the BHS Certificate program (graduate school) and its undergraduate program "post-bacs". In essence a post-bac is any non-degree earning course work you do after you receive your Bachelors. So really both titles are fitting. On SDN people call the BHS type program an SMP or special masters program. However MCV does not grant the MMS (medical masters of science) basically b/c they feel that a masters in science should include a legitimate research thesis. So technically it is not an SMP since there is no degree awarded.

The "Post-bac" I have been talking about is graduate school and is taken on the medical school campus. You dont take the pre-recs in the Certificate program (BHS) so you must have taken all the med school pre-recs already.

There is another program through VCU where you take the pre-recs in addition to other courses.

Heinz57 said:

From what I understand, you have to complete BIO I and II and Chem I and II AND Precalc before you start your 25 hours. Very little chance of completing the program in a year. . .I think what you say is the case - they are bulking up your transcript with more difficult courses so you have a better chance of getting into med school. But man it's cheap. Richmond is cheap, too.

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Pretty sure a friend of mine who did it took 2 years. He's in the class above me now.

And VCU is ridiculously cheap for ugrad and for grad school, especially if you are an instate student.

Rent in Richmond is pretty cheap too. You can easily find a decent apt with a roomate for around 400/month (or less).

Gooble said:

Yeah, I just don't feel like taking 2 years since I'd likely live on my own away from my wife while she stays in DC.

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I hear ya - I'd be in Richmond for two years away from my boyfriend (we live together). Although we're hoping he gets a job in Manhattan. He's been interviewing. If he gets this job, then NY here I come!! CUNY and SUNY have good programs, I hear. You just have to be a fighter to get through the red tape. We looked at a fabulous, three bedroom house in Richmond, though - it had a finished basement and attic, screened-in back porch, awesome front porch, and beautiful, old wood floors. It was situated on a quiet street, but was in the Fan, which has good restaurants/boutiques. The asking price was 340K. Can't find that kind of deal in DC or Northern VA!

Yeah, and you sure won't be finding that kind of deal in NYC either haha. I've lived in both DC and NYC and they are both ridiculously over priced. $340K here buys you a small one bedroom condo that you still get to pay condo fees of $300-400/month on.

Gotta love it. Argh.

UPenn's postbac is looking better and better.

Gooble said:

Anyone?

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Gooble,

I am currently doing the pre-reqs at VCU. They refer to that as the (ugrad) Post-Bacc Health Sciences Certificate program. You attend classes on the Monroe Park Campus, not the MCV Campus (about 2 miles apart). If you have any questions, feel free to PM.

The VCU Basic Health Science Certificate is graduate-level while the VCU Health Science Certificate is undergraduate-level. The 'basic' program is higher level. That is funny. Learn something new everyday.

I got a confirmation email from them today, thanking me for applying. I guess that's as good as it gets with regards to having a complete app.

Now how long do I have to wait for that lovely acceptance letter?

For those who have applied to Basic Graduate Certificate program...

Which program did you apply for?

Gooble said:

Yeah, and you sure won't be finding that kind of deal in NYC either haha. I've lived in both DC and NYC and they are both ridiculously over priced. $340K here buys you a small one bedroom condo that you still get to pay condo fees of $300-400/month on.

Gotta love it. Argh.

UPenn's postbac is looking better and better.

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Yep - I am applying to UPenn as well. Am a bit worried about my sad GRE scores, though.

I could never buy in DC, NY, or SF (where I really want to live!). Ah well - one day. Rent in Phillie wouldn't be too bad (slightly more than Richmond, I suspect). I currently live in Springfield, VA and am paying so much b/c I am still on the Blue Line. Springfield is the boonies!!

Heinz57 said:

Springfield is the boonies!!

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Yeah it is. Man, how do you stand it?

I live in the tidewater area, though.....it's kinda painful. I need to get back to the city, ASAP.

nanaschool2000 said:

For those who have applied to Basic Graduate Certificate program...

Which program did you apply for?

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i applied for the Anatomy program. I'm not complete yet though, still waiting on recc letters.

I live in Arlington here. I'm looking to apply to UPENN also. Heinz, don't submit your GRE's if you are worried. The app. says at least one standardized test score. I didn't like my SATs way back when so I'm submitting my LSAT's because they are in the 90th percentile range.

SSquared - I want to get back to the City, too. Tired of my apartment farm that overlooks the Springfield Mall! Ugh. If my man gets a job in NY, I think I'm going to sublet our place and move back to DC, until school starts. Wherever/whenever that might be! I figure Phillie is only an hour away from NY by train.

Gooble - Arlington - sweet. Unfortunately, I only have GRE scores. The College Board can't find my SAT scores, because I took the test so long ago. For the GRE, I have a 540 Verbal, 510 Quantitative and 5.5 Essay. I'm mad about my Quantitative score, because I could have done so much better. I had so much going on that week that by the time that first Math question popped up, I was fried. I shouldn't have even taken it! But it's my mission to ace the MCAT and do everything I can to master that test. Even if I have to study straight for 6 months. Where else are you applying?

Anybody have any news from VCU?

I'm getting tired of waiting!

(also shameless thread bump...don't want this one to get lost...)

I called the office today. They said it will take two to four weeks to make a decision due to the HIGH volume of applications. I'm not sure if that is only referring to the Graduate Certificate program. The waiting process is killing me.

I have a postcard saying they received my app. But I'm applying to the pbpm-like program not the smp-like program (Sorry - I just can't remember the non-sensical, ridiculous names they have for each program!)

For those who applied for graduate certificate program (6 programs)...

Is it just my opinion or VCU is taking a long time to get those applications together? I call the office today to see if they received my LORs (it was sent three weeks ago). They said they will get back to me after searching it. Well, I guess they haven't found it. I just want to get a confirmation that my application is completed. But they are keep telling me that they have so many applications to process. Do you guys know that if your application has been forwarded to the department or not?

Just to remind you. Because you got an email from VCU, you should not assume that your application is completed. I got that email. And my application fee is already cashed out. Make sure to follow up w/ your application. I'm just a little bit frustrated. This waiting is driving me crazy. Delayed completion--->delayed foward to the department ----> delayed decision time