Trying to help my friend decide whether or not shes a disadvantaged student

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hadokenny

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So I was talking to my friend today about the med school application. We are bothing applying for 08 cycle and we were on the topic of whos considered disadvantage. She told me her life story and I feel that she should be considered a disadvantaged student. But bebing a stubborn and self-rightous person she is, she said she doesnt feel right putting herself down as disadvantaged on the application becuase she doesnt want "pity" from the adcom. So I just want to ask you guys for your opinion of whether she should check that disadvantaged box on the AMCA app.

Heres is her life story.

Shes a UCLA student. Her family moved to here from China 12 years ago. Her father got in trouble with the law and had to leave the US and move back to China when she was a sophomore in high school. Her mom was under a lot of metal distress because of it. Being a 16 year old sophomore in high school and the only other family member with a driver's license, she was passed on the responsibility to taking care of the family. She had to take care of her 2 siblings, buy groceries, and take her 80 year old grandmother to see the doctor occasionally while her mom worked extra hours. Since her family income was not high to begin with (Her parents make 35k total a year), she also had to start working as a dance instructor (she is an exceptional dancer) to make extra money to support herself to lessen the burden on the family. When she was a senior in high school, her mom had a mental breakdown and the doctor suggested her mom to move back to China as well to be with her dad so her condition can improve. She also had to work part time through out undergrad to support her family and pay her own way through college.

What do you guys think?
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hadokenny said:
So I was talking to my friend today about the med school application. We are bothing applying for 08 cycle and we were on the topic of whos considered disadvantage. She told me her life story and I feel that she should be considered a disadvantaged student. But bebing a stubborn and self-rightous person she is, she said she doesnt feel right putting herself down as disadvantaged on the application becuase she doesnt want "pity" from the adcom. So I just want to ask you guys for your opinion of whether she should check that disadvantaged box on the AMCA app.

Heres is her life story.

Shes a UCLA student. Her family moved to here from China 12 years ago. Her father got in trouble with the law and had to leave the US and move back to China when she was a sophomore in high school. Her mom was under a lot of metal distress because of it. Being a 16 year old sophomore in high school and the only other family member with a driver's license, she was passed on the responsibility to taking care of the family. She had to take care of her 2 siblings, buy groceries, and take her 80 year old grandmother to see the doctor occasionally while her mom worked extra hours. Since her family income was not high to begin with (Her parents make 35k total a year), she also had to start working as a dance instructor (she is an exceptional dancer) to make extra money to support herself to lessen the burden on the family. When she was a senior in high school, her mom had a mental breakdown and the doctor suggested her mom to move back to China as well to be with her dad so her condition can improve. She also had to work part time through out undergrad to support her family and pay her own way through college.

What do you guys think?
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I say yes, based on the bolded parts.
 
hadokenny said:
So I was talking to my friend today about the med school application. We are bothing applying for 08 cycle and we were on the topic of whos considered disadvantage. She told me her life story and I feel that she should be considered a disadvantaged student. But bebing a stubborn and self-rightous person she is, she said she doesnt feel right putting herself down as disadvantaged on the application becuase she doesnt want "pity" from the adcom. So I just want to ask you guys for your opinion of whether she should check that disadvantaged box on the AMCA app.

Heres is her life story.

Shes a UCLA student. Her family moved to here from China 12 years ago. Her father got in trouble with the law and had to leave the US and move back to China when she was a sophomore in high school. Her mom was under a lot of metal distress because of it. Being a 16 year old sophomore in high school and the only other family member with a driver's license, she was passed on the responsibility to taking care of the family. She had to take care of her 2 siblings, buy groceries, and take her 80 year old grandmother to see the doctor occasionally while her mom worked extra hours. Since her family income was not high to begin with (Her parents make 35k total a year), she also had to start working as a dance instructor (she is an exceptional dancer) to make extra money to support herself to lessen the burden on the family. When she was a senior in high school, her mom had a mental breakdown and the doctor suggested her mom to move back to China as well to be with her dad so her condition can improve. She also had to work part time through out undergrad to support her family and pay her own way through college.

What do you guys think?
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if her family income qualifies and the fact that she had to contribute a significant portion to help her family out, she deserves the right to be called "disadvantaged". Economic disadvantage is not necessarily as good as ethnic under representation. If she was from a poor county it would help out more with the state schools.
 
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What I think is meaningless. It sounds to me as though she acknowledges that she is ABLE to check the box, but that she simply doesn't WANT to. It sounds as though she wants to know that she got into and through med school on her own merits rather than simply because someone felt sorry for her.

I think she is doing the right thing by doing what feels right to her. Unless she happens to be your wife or fiancé, I think you should (I don't mean this to be as offensive as it sounds, but it seems the best way to put it) keep your nose out of her business. You may be in your mind looking out for her, but it's entirely possible that she might see it as you thinking she can't get into med school on her own merit.
 
Please disregard the rudeness in this forum. Some people get angry at the thought of anything that threatens their chances to get into medical school. Oh yes, and some of them are mind readers and actually know what you friend feels and thinks, and what you are doing or should do.

:rolleyes:
 
if your friend isn't economically disadvantaged... I don't know who is. Although a PS concerning these things could do as much.
 
baylormed said:
Please disregard the rudeness in this forum. Some people get angry at the thought of anything that threatens their chances to get into medical school. Oh yes, and some of them are mind readers and actually know what you friend feels and thinks, and what you are doing or should do.

:rolleyes:
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What she does or doesn't do will not affect me in any way - I'm only in my freshman year - she will be applying well before me.

And please notice, I never said what his friend does think and feel, I said what it SOUNDED like and what is POSSIBLE (based on what I would think if I was in the situation) Please quit putting words in my mouth.
 
hadokenny,

when your friend fills out her AMCAS application, there is a section for disadvantaged status that gives some criteria. Unfortunately since i've submitted my application already, I can no longer look it up for you, but I remember there being some criteria regarding household income. This will probably depend on how many people were in her household.

this is what AMCAS instructions say:

To help determine if you are disadvantaged, click the How do I know if I should be considered
disadvantaged? link, which displays the following information:
Underserved: Do you believe, based on your own experiences or the experiences of family
and friends that the area in which you grew up was inadequately served by the available
health care professionals? Were there enough physicians, nurses, hospitals, clinics, and
other health care service providers?
Immediate Family: The Federal Government broadly defines "immediate family" as
"spouse, parent, child, sibling, mother or father-in-law, son or daughter-in-law, or sister or
brother-in-law, including step and adoptive relationships."
State and Federal Assistance Programs: These programs are specifically defined as
"Means-Tested Programs" under which the individual, family, or household income and
assets must be below specified thresholds. The sponsoring agencies then provide cash and
non-cash assistance to eligible individuals, families, or households. Such programs include
welfare benefit programs (federal, state, and local); Aid to Families with Dependent Children
(AFDC or ADC); unemployment compensation; General Assistance (GA); food stamps;
Supplemental Security Income (SSI); Medicaid; housing assistance; or other federal, state,
or local financial assistance programs.
 
Mayday said:
What she does or doesn't do will not affect me in any way - I'm only in my freshman year - she will be applying well before me.

And please notice, I never said what his friend does think and feel, I said what it SOUNDED like and what is POSSIBLE (based on what I would think if I was in the situation) Please quit putting words in my mouth.
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don't f*ck with SDN royalty...;) apologize, learn, and move on. :thumbup:
 
totally unrelated, but i've learned that putting "my friend" on sdn is basically saying "me", so you might as well say it even if it really is your "friend".
 
UMP said:
baylormed is god around these parts.... better wipe that smile off your face :p
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Gee, didn't know there was such a thing as SDN royalty

PS- this smile isn't going anywhere :laugh:
 
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etf said:
totally unrelated, but i've learned that putting "my friend" on sdn is basically saying "me", so you might as well say it even if it really is your "friend".
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Actually...."my friend" is usually = "me" everywhere...not just SDN ;). But in this case I am really askin for my friend. Shes an exceptional person but she doesnt have a great GPA because she had to spend time working and taking care of her family instead of in the library studying during weekends when she is not in school. Her GPA is a 3.3-3.4 and Id feel really bad if she doesnt get into a med school because she really deserves it and she should get every advantage she can get.
 
hadokenny said:
Actually...."my friend" is usually = "me" everywhere...not just SDN ;). But in this case I am really askin for my friend. Shes an exceptional person but she doesnt have a great GPA because she had to spend time working and taking care of her family instead of in the library studying during weekends when she is not in school. Her GPA is a 3.3-3.4 and Id feel really bad if she doesnt get into a med school because she really deserves it and she should get every advantage she can get.
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Then she should claim to be disadvantaged so that schools can take this into consideration when looking at things such as her GPA. Good luck to you and your friend for the 2008 cycle. :)
 
hadokenny said:
Actually...."my friend" is usually = "me" everywhere...not just SDN ;). But in this case I am really askin for my friend. Shes an exceptional person but she doesnt have a great GPA because she had to spend time working and taking care of her family instead of in the library studying during weekends when she is not in school. Her GPA is a 3.3-3.4 and Id feel really bad if she doesnt get into a med school because she really deserves it and she should get every advantage she can get.
Click to expand...

3.3-3.4 is acceptable even in california... with the disadvantage status and a good PS that she could write based on her life experiences.... she should be in great shape :thumbup:
 
Mayday said:
What I think is meaningless. It sounds to me as though she acknowledges that she is ABLE to check the box, but that she simply doesn't WANT to. It sounds as though she wants to know that she got into and through med school on her own merits rather than simply because someone felt sorry for her.

I think she is doing the right thing by doing what feels right to her. Unless she happens to be your wife or fiancé, I think you should (I don't mean this to be as offensive as it sounds, but it seems the best way to put it) keep your nose out of her business. You may be in your mind looking out for her, but it's entirely possible that she might see it as you thinking she can't get into med school on her own merit.
Click to expand...

From the OP's description, it sounds like she's got a lot of merit. But I guess it's just easier to see merit in terms of grades when your parents are paying for everything and school is really your only obligation.
 
My question is this... What are your friends grades? what is your friends GPA... I will tell you what to check based upon that...
 
gotmeds? said:
From the OP's description, it sounds like she's got a lot of merit. But I guess it's just easier to see merit in terms of grades when your parents are paying for everything and school is really your only obligation.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the OP's description. I said that she may see the OP's pushing her to use the disadvantaged status as him (her?) thinking she wouldn't be able to get in on her own. I admire the OP's friend's determination.

Also, please note, my mother lives on welfare and section 8 housing. I have not had any financial support from her for the past 14 years - so I am not by any stretch of the imagination saying that merit is only in terms of grades. By "on her own merit" I mean that she did it all on her own, based completely on what she has done rather than the circumstances of her family.

I could probably say that I am disadvantaged when it comes time for me to apply - but I won't. If I did, I would probably feel that I didn't really earn my way into med school, but that I got in solely because of pity from the adcoms.
 
i wouldn't say she's disadvantaged., at least not according to the AMCAS definition. i think med schools would just shrug their shoulders and move on. low GPA + asian = much harder to get into med school. by your description of her, she'd be in the same boat i am (granted i f'ed up worse than she did), and the disadvantaged status didn't fly for me.

looks like your friend has the choice of applying and hoping a 3.3-3.4 isn't bad enough and she has a good MCAT score or take extra courses to bring that GPA up (or an MCAT if the score isn't very high).
 
Since you asked, I suggest you encourage your friend to check the box and answer the (easy) questions, save an electronic copy of the AMCAS, then uncheck the box and save a copy. If she looks at the two applications she can then ask her self "Which one of these more completely and accurately represents me?" Many of the questions they ask would apply directly to your friend. Also, a part of filling out that section includes an area for her to comment on her situation. It is appropriate, if not beneficial, for her to leave a note explaining that while she does not feel disadvantaged the realities of her economic situation alone would/might technically place her in that category.
 
baylormed said:
I say yes, based on the bolded parts.
Click to expand...

She is economically disadvantaged and should apply under that category. I also am from a poor family 35,000$ median income most of my life. However, I am not disadvantaged because I did have a so-called intact family. I also did not have any money issues. I did have a poor GPA initially in music school but switched to a liberal arts college and graduated with about 3.99 GPA in science. I am also an overrepresented minority. I have seen cases such as hers whose parents just don't do well in America because of the language barriers and the fact they have not been able to assimilate into mainstream society- sounds kind of hokey, don't it, but this is true. My mother speaks ok english and so does my dad. We did not stay in the cultural ghetto and got out so my dad could do gardening for the rich folks. We did not strike it rich though but we were self -reliant. I did work two jobs before I started medical school but I did this to support myself, not others. I think she will have to have a strong personal statement describing her situation and also strong letter of recommendations from people who know of her background well. I also dropped out of high school myself to become a musician but I always had my parent's support to return to school and to make something out of myself.

I do wish her the best.

FP
 
hadokenny said:
Actually...."my friend" is usually = "me" everywhere...not just SDN ;). But in this case I am really askin for my friend. Shes an exceptional person but she doesnt have a great GPA because she had to spend time working and taking care of her family instead of in the library studying during weekends when she is not in school. Her GPA is a 3.3-3.4 and Id feel really bad if she doesnt get into a med school because she really deserves it and she should get every advantage she can get.
Click to expand...

Ok, this person isn't asking about whether or not to check a box because she / he would feel bad about not getting in on their own merits... this person is asking to check a box because they don't feel their GPA isnt up to snuff... Pure and simple...

If I had a 4.0... that box would be getting checked... If I had a 3.0 that box would be getting checked. Why? because it is the truth, PERIOD... I didn't have mommy and daddy taking care of me while I studied at home all I could and have no other life worries... Sorry wasn't my life and I am not going to feel bad because of it...

What I can say is this for the OP's Friend... Check the box and do better in school... anything else is on you. It is your responsibility to do well, not go out on weekends and take school seriously...
 
christian15213 said:
Ok, this person isn't asking about whether or not to check a box because she / he would feel bad about not getting in on their own merits... this person is asking to check a box because they don't feel their GPA isnt up to snuff... Pure and simple...

If I had a 4.0... that box would be getting checked... If I had a 3.0 that box would be getting checked. Why? because it is the truth, PERIOD... I didn't have mommy and daddy taking care of me while I studied at home all I could and have no other life worries... Sorry wasn't my life and I am not going to feel bad because of it...

What I can say is this for the OP's Friend... Check the box and do better in school... anything else is on you. It is your responsibility to do well, not go out on weekends and take school seriously...
Click to expand...

Yes, the OP is asking that, but look at the original post.
hadokenny said:
stubborn and self-rightous person she is, she said she doesnt feel right putting herself down as disadvantaged on the application becuase she doesnt want "pity" from the adcom.
Click to expand...
 
You can say yes and then explain it with an essay at all of the schools I'm familiar with. They'll want an explanation either way AFAIK. It will ultimately be up to the school. No harm in telling your (I mean your friend's) story.
 
Mayday said:
Yes, the OP is asking that, but look at the original post.
Click to expand...

i know that I was just asking a retorical question... The point is, I have seen many a people that rediculously try pulling out the stops because they finally figure out they may not get into medschool with their stats... All the partying and fun they were having while us nerds were busy studying our butts off has to mean something? don't you agree...
 
how much do you guys think being eco disad. will help this person? As far as GPA and MCAT scores? Will adcomms think of her as a minority and say oh well she was econom. dis. so it is ok that she had a lower gpa and mcat so we should admit her and increase the diversity of our class??
 
moto_za said:
how much do you guys think being eco disad. will help this person? As far as GPA and MCAT scores? Will adcomms think of her as a minority and say oh well she was econom. dis. so it is ok that she had a lower gpa and mcat so we should admit her and increase the diversity of our class??
Click to expand...

I totally agree... I give this warning to people looking for stupid ways to pad their resume / application...

Think about it. If you're not a URM why would you put that? Do you think it is not noticible when a person claiming an ethnicity of other or Native American and then puts race as Caucasian and other for his / her native americaness... Isn't looked at as a joke? Do you think even saying this person is Asian is going to make the adcom say hmmmm, they are not a URM but they are Asian and really having a difficult time with living expenses so they are Eco Dis... ...And that makes me want to give them special consideration...

ASIANS are not URM... being ECO DIS... should mean that you still did what you needed to do in school and then applied with good enough scores to get interviewed and then that should seperate you from the rest. that you overcame something, not that you are lobbying for some excuse and trying to play the system right before someone's eyes.

My point is, and I know I am sounding rough, don't lie and don't force unnecessary issues. Use a URM status or Eco dis status to say something positive... i.e. I lived in the a crappy area and had to eat grass for five years but I still got all B's and A's... The Asian thing means nothing... how could it they are not URM's...

I think honestly Adcoms have to look at what some people try to pull and laugh and say DENIED...

Come with the truth... not with excuses and stunts...

again take this all with a grain of salt and know this is IMO...
 
christian15213 said:
I totally agree... I give this warning to people looking for stupid ways to pad their resume / application...

Think about it. If you're not a URM why would you put that? Do you think it is not noticible when a person claiming an ethnicity of other or Native American and then puts race as Caucasian and other for his / her native americaness... Isn't looked at as a joke? Do you think even saying this person is Asian is going to make the adcom say hmmmm, they are not a URM but they are Asian and really having a difficult time with living expenses so they are Eco Dis... ...And that makes me want to give them special consideration...

ASIANS are not URM... being ECO DIS... should mean that you still did what you needed to do in school and then applied with good enough scores to get interviewed and then that should seperate you from the rest. that you overcame something, not that you are lobbying for some excuse and trying to play the system right before someone's eyes.

My point is, and I know I am sounding rough, don't lie and don't force unnecessary issues. Use a URM status or Eco dis status to say something positive... i.e. I lived in the a crappy area and had to eat grass for five years but I still got all B's and A's... The Asian thing means nothing... how could it they are not URM's...

I think honestly Adcoms have to look at what some people try to pull and laugh and say DENIED...

Come with the truth... not with excuses and stunts...

again take this all with a grain of salt and know this is IMO...
Click to expand...

wait...since when is this thread about URM?
 
aznsuperm3 said:
wait...since when is this thread about URM?
Click to expand...

Shes a UCLA student. Her family moved to here from China 12 years ago. Her father got in trouble with the law and had to leave the US and move back to China when she was a sophomore in high school. Her mom was under a lot of metal distress because of it. Being a 16 year old sophomore in high school and the only other family member with a driver's license, she was passed on the responsibility to taking care of the family. She had to take care of her 2 siblings, buy groceries, and take her 80 year old grandmother to see the doctor occasionally while her mom worked extra hours. Since her family income was not high to begin with (Her parents make 35k total a year), she also had to start working as a dance instructor (she is an exceptional dancer) to make extra money to support herself to lessen the burden on the family. When she was a senior in high school, her mom had a mental breakdown and the doctor suggested her mom to move back to China as well to be with her dad so her condition can improve. She also had to work part time through out undergrad to support her family and pay her own way through college.
Click to expand...


To me the thread becomes about URM when someone starts speaking about being disadvantaged...
My whole point while seemed rough was to have the person realize that they aren't not going to hold situations or advantages the same way URM's are. There are people that have said straight to my face that they want AA's and I am not even AA but I am a multiracial hispanic and he flat out said that not even hispanics were considered URM... which I knew he didn't know what he was talking about off hand and I won't get into that now but the point is... One has to be careful of what they try to pull. The fact is asians aren't URM's and they are probably the first one's to think of some advantage to the whole URM thing whenever scores and stats aren't up to par.

Again, if this person was thinking of going that route I think it would hurt her badly. On the other hand if she approached it diff I think it would be much better to say this is what happened but this is what I was able to do. Yes, saying they are chinese immagrants IMO is a rough thing coming from any country but don't try to hang ones perverbial hat on it.
 
christian15213 said:
To me the thread becomes about URM when someone starts speaking about being disadvantaged...
My whole point while seemed rough was to have the person realize that they aren't not going to hold situations or advantages the same way URM's are. There are people that have said straight to my face that they want AA's and I am not even AA but I am a multiracial hispanic and he flat out said that not even hispanics were considered URM... which I knew he didn't know what he was talking about off hand and I won't get into that now but the point is... One has to be careful of what they try to pull. The fact is asians aren't URM's and they are probably the first one's to think of some advantage to the whole URM thing whenever scores and stats aren't up to par.

Again, if this person was thinking of going that route I think it would hurt her badly. On the other hand if she approached it diff I think it would be much better to say this is what happened but this is what I was able to do. Yes, saying they are chinese immagrants IMO is a rough thing coming from any country but don't try to hang ones perverbial hat on it.
Click to expand...


hmm...your arguments dont make sense. Last time i checked URM = underrepresented minority. I didnt know URM and econ dis are synonyms. Since when did race enter the conversation here? The OP simply mentioned where his (or her) friend is from. We all know that asians arent URM when it comes to applying to med school.

Your story about ppl telling you hispanics are not considered URM does nothing for this thread...it just makes you sound like your are bitter about the fact that other ppl not admitting you are URM (which I know they are wrong).

christian15213 said:
they are probably the first one's to think of some advantage to the whole URM thing whenever scores and stats aren't up to par.
Click to expand...

Your comment is a little out of line dont you think? What are you trying imply about asians?
 
UMP said:
3.3-3.4 is acceptable even in california... with the disadvantage status and a good PS that she could write based on her life experiences.... she should be in great shape :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Not really since she is East Asian. If she was black or chicano that would be another story. Asians don't deserve to check that box! Admissions office will laugh at that
 
aznsuperm3 said:
hmm...your arguments dont make sense. Last time i checked URM = underrepresented minority. I didnt know URM and econ dis are synonyms. Since when did race enter the conversation here? The OP simply mentioned where his (or her) friend is from. We all know that asians arent URM when it comes to applying to med school.

Your story about ppl telling you hispanics are not considered URM does nothing for this thread...it just makes you sound like your are bitter about the fact that other ppl not admitting you are URM (which I know they are wrong).



Your comment is a little out of line dont you think? What are you trying imply about asians?
Click to expand...

the adcom was just making a rough statement about hispanics here in south florida, meaning to say if one is a caucasian hispanic, ur not a urm, especially here in SF...

I understood and didn't say anything lol because I didn't want to sound like it mattered to me... with that said...


my comment about people trying to use some uem card or eco disav card is silly by any race whbo knows they shouldn't be doing it. I think the op would severely hurt themselves by trying it... again imo
 
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