complaints about USC vs other schools

Here it is definitely bad here at SC...so, if you leave with the last impression you have about the school, you would probably be right

By the way, out of the graduating class of 2007 (Both International Students and Regular class) which consists of approx. 175 students, only 19 students will be checking out (graduating) on time. That's why I tell you, DO NOT Choose SC over any other school

what makes it so bad by the way, i know they have a pbl format and its expensive but i was under the impression that pretty much every1 in the class passes the licensure exam?

The complaining about schools exists everywhere. Here on SDN, it goes in cycles. A few years ago, there were lots of threads hating on NYU. Currently the school in the hot seat seems to be USC. Other schools have had also cycled through getting ripped apart on SDN. So take it all with a grain of salt, the decision is ultimately yours. Wherever you go, there will be rules to learn to figure out how to pass exams, meet requirements and graduate - no school will just hand you a diploma for showing up.

gryffindor said:

...no school will just hand you a diploma for showing up.

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What kills me is the number of people who I think actually believe this.

They seem to have some sort of sense of entitlement since they are paying tuition. It goes back to the fundamental difference in philosophy of whether it is a right or a privilege to train and practice as a doctor.

I went to SC for undergrad so I know quite a few people who go to dental school there. The one reaction I would always hear from 1st year students was how "chill" it is. Everyone goes to the beach, clubs and whatever else, which are things they probably should have gotten out of their system in undergrad. They get used to this "luxury" of not doing **** but still feeling entitled to the DDS degree. By the time they get to the end of their 2nd year or into the clinics (3rd and 4th) they're just plain lazy. I don't give a flying f*ck if only 1 person graduated out of 144, it's not the schools fault. No one is entitled to earn the DDS degree. If it's harder to do it in 4 years at SC' then I'm up for the challenge. People really need to stop b*tching about how hard it is to find patients and fill the requirements, or how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month. Let it rest. The funny thing is, there are those from SC that are on target to graduate because they work hard, and then there are those few that are b*tching and moaning about how unfair it is and how you don't learn anything. Honestly, if there were classes to attend, the professor is just going to read some powerpoint to you, you're going to d*ck around for the entire semester and then 2 days before the exam, you're going to cram that ppt down your throat.

Success at SC' is probably a little harder than other schools because no one is telling you what to do. Oh well. Is someone going to tell you how to treat a patient when you get out into the real world? No. Make a schedule, get your **** your done and you'll be fine. If you feel entitled to something, you will never last.

Cheers!

Columbia07 said:

I went to SC for undergrad so I know quite a few people who go to dental school there. The one reaction I would always hear from 1st year students was how "chill" it is. Everyone goes to the beach, clubs and whatever else, which are things they probably should have gotten out of their system in undergrad. They get used to this "luxury" of not doing **** but still feeling entitled to the DDS degree. By the time they get to the end of their 2nd year or into the clinics (3rd and 4th) they're are just plain lazy. I don't give a flying f*ck if only 1 person graduated out of 144, it's not the schools fault. No one is entitled to earn the DDS degree. If it's harder to do it in 4 years at SC' then I'm up for the challenge. People really need to stop b*tching about how hard it is to find patients and fill the requirements, or how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month. Let it rest. The funny thing is, there are those from SC that are on target to graduate because they work hard, and then there are those few that are b*tching and moaning about how unfair it is and how you don't learn anything. Honestly, if there were classes to attend, the professor is just going to read some powerpoint to you, you're going to d*ck around for the entire semester and then 2 days before the exam, you're going to cram that ppt down your throat.

Success at SC' is probably a little harder than other schools because no one is telling you what to do. Oh well. Is someone going to tell you how to treat a patient when you get out into the real world? No. Make a schedule, get your **** your done and you'll be fine. If you feel entitled to something, you will never last.

Cheers!

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bravo... exactly what i have been wanting to say this whole time... a million e-props...

Columbia07 said:

I went to SC for undergrad so I know quite a few people who go to dental school there. The one reaction I would always hear from 1st year students was how "chill" it is. Everyone goes to the beach, clubs and whatever else, which are things they probably should have gotten out of their system in undergrad. They get used to this "luxury" of not doing **** but still feeling entitled to the DDS degree. By the time they get to the end of their 2nd year or into the clinics (3rd and 4th) they're are just plain lazy. I don't give a flying f*ck if only 1 person graduated out of 144, it's not the schools fault. No one is entitled to earn the DDS degree. If it's harder to do it in 4 years at SC' then I'm up for the challenge. People really need to stop b*tching about how hard it is to find patients and fill the requirements, or how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month. Let it rest. The funny thing is, there are those from SC that are on target to graduate because they work hard, and then there are those few that are b*tching and moaning about how unfair it is and how you don't learn anything. Honestly, if there were classes to attend, the professor is just going to read some powerpoint to you, you're going to d*ck around for the entire semester and then 2 days before the exam, you're going to cram that ppt down your throat.

Success at SC' is probably a little harder than other schools because no one is telling you what to do. Oh well. Is someone going to tell you how to treat a patient when you get out into the real world? No. Make a schedule, get your **** your done and you'll be fine. If you feel entitled to something, you will never last.

Cheers!

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Let me tell you how right you are! Having gone through undergrad and maintaining a busy courseload while playing athletics, I have no concept of working hard. I, along with another 150 other seniors just want to cruise through life and let my faculty complete my work for me. Hard work is for losers or people who can't figure out how to cut corners.

It's always good to learn about my school and my work ethic from somebody who isn't even in this program.

booshwa said:

Let me tell you how right you are! Having gone through undergrad and maintaining a busy courseload while playing athletics, I have no concept of working hard. I, along with another 150 other seniors just want to cruise through life and let my faculty complete my work for me. Hard work is for losers or people who can't figure out how to cut corners.

It's always good to learn about my school and my work ethic from somebody who isn't even in this program.

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It seems that the currently enrolled dental students have little good to say about USC versus the entering students who sound very enthusiastic. Are there any currently enrolled USC dental students who are as enthusiastic about USC as the entering freshmen?

tooth decay said:

It seems that the currently enrolled dental students have little good to say about USC versus the entering students who sound very enthusiastic. Are there any currently enrolled USC dental students who are as enthusiastic about USC as the entering freshmen?

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Don't get me wrong, I and many other students are enthusiastic about USC. I love the football team. I love the weather. The undergrad girls are amazing (alas, they are gone for the summer now 🙁 ).

But seriously, all dental schools have problems. And I would venture that many students are unhappy while in dental school. Its a lot of work (nothing wrong with that) and there are a lot of hoops to jump through to graduate. What makes it frustrating is that there are many people at USC who are working their tails off, and through whatever reason, they just don't graduate on time. Since this doesn't happen in such great multitudes at other schools, to me that implies that something needs to be fixed at USCSD. But you know what? although most of the time I loathe school, I love dentistry, and when I finally get out of school, I will be an extremely happy camper.

Columbia07 said:

I went to SC for undergrad so I know quite a few people who go to dental school there. The one reaction I would always hear from 1st year students was how "chill" it is. Everyone goes to the beach, clubs and whatever else, which are things they probably should have gotten out of their system in undergrad. They get used to this "luxury" of not doing **** but still feeling entitled to the DDS degree. By the time they get to the end of their 2nd year or into the clinics (3rd and 4th) they're are just plain lazy. I don't give a flying f*ck if only 1 person graduated out of 144, it's not the schools fault. No one is entitled to earn the DDS degree. If it's harder to do it in 4 years at SC' then I'm up for the challenge. People really need to stop b*tching about how hard it is to find patients and fill the requirements, or how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month. Let it rest. The funny thing is, there are those from SC that are on target to graduate because they work hard, and then there are those few that are b*tching and moaning about how unfair it is and how you don't learn anything. Honestly, if there were classes to attend, the professor is just going to read some powerpoint to you, you're going to d*ck around for the entire semester and then 2 days before the exam, you're going to cram that ppt down your throat.

Success at SC' is probably a little harder than other schools because no one is telling you what to do. Oh well. Is someone going to tell you how to treat a patient when you get out into the real world? No. Make a schedule, get your **** your done and you'll be fine. If you feel entitled to something, you will never last.

Cheers!

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If over half of the class is not graduating on time, that is a problem with the school, not the students. The school shouldn't let it get out of hand, and give an opportunity for students to finish things on time, and help keep them on track. If they don't care, it shows that they are more interested in tuition than their students. One of the main problems in any dental school the last two years is having enough patients with enough procedures to do. You can't blame that on the students. They should make the class size smaller or find a way to get more patients to support the class. I can't speak for what the situation is at USC, but it just doesn't make sense to me that so many dedicated students (you have to be a relatively good student to get accepted into dental school) are becoming so "lazy" that they can't graduate. There must be other factors (like not able to get a chair for clinic ... or not having enough denture patients to work on, etc.) But someone else will know more about the specifics.

dentalman said:

If over half of the class is not graduating on time, that is a problem with the school, not the students. The school shouldn't let it get out of hand, and give an opportunity for students to finish things on time, and help keep them on track. If they don't care, it shows that they are more interested in tuition than their students. One of the main problems in any dental school the last two years is having enough patients with enough procedures to do. You can't blame that on the students. They should make the class size smaller or find a way to get more patients to support the class. I can't speak for what the situation is at USC, but it just doesn't make sense to me that so many dedicated students (you have to be a relatively good student to get accepted into dental school) are becoming so "lazy" that they can't graduate. There must be other factors (like not able to get a chair for clinic ... or not having enough denture patients to work on, etc.) But someone else will know more about the specifics.

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That is exactly the problem. The school is in it for the money. They got so carried away with being a business and having a profit motive that they forgot somewhere along the way that the school primarily exists to train new dentists. Hence, the moniker "Dental school". Just a few hears ago when the class was much smaller, everyone graduated on time despite the high requirements. Now they have jacked up the # of students while increasing tuition at the same time. They know that the problem is too many students but they aren't going to do anything about it because as they put it, " the school needs to make money and the school primarily makes money off of tuition". This basically translates into, a school that is extremely interested in your money to the point of sacrificing the things that really matter to get it.

Columbia07 said:

I went to SC for undergrad so I know quite a few people who go to dental school there. The one reaction I would always hear from 1st year students was how "chill" it is. Everyone goes to the beach, clubs and whatever else, which are things they probably should have gotten out of their system in undergrad. They get used to this "luxury" of not doing **** but still feeling entitled to the DDS degree. By the time they get to the end of their 2nd year or into the clinics (3rd and 4th) they're are just plain lazy. I don't give a flying f*ck if only 1 person graduated out of 144, it's not the schools fault. No one is entitled to earn the DDS degree. If it's harder to do it in 4 years at SC' then I'm up for the challenge. People really need to stop b*tching about how hard it is to find patients and fill the requirements, or how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month. Let it rest. The funny thing is, there are those from SC that are on target to graduate because they work hard, and then there are those few that are b*tching and moaning about how unfair it is and how you don't learn anything. Honestly, if there were classes to attend, the professor is just going to read some powerpoint to you, you're going to d*ck around for the entire semester and then 2 days before the exam, you're going to cram that ppt down your throat.

Success at SC' is probably a little harder than other schools because no one is telling you what to do. Oh well. Is someone going to tell you how to treat a patient when you get out into the real world? No. Make a schedule, get your **** your done and you'll be fine. If you feel entitled to something, you will never last.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

You can't possibly believe if that many people are not graduating on time, it's the student's fault. Could USC just coincidentally allow that many 'lazy' people to attend their school? I highly doubt that. It is true that the onus is on the student to make the most of their education but part of a students success relies on the school. From your prespective, you can conclude that USC is the hardest dental school in the nation if that many people don't graduate on time. I think of it as poor planning and education.

D-school prepares you for the real world. You can't expect students to enter and attend d-school with 'real world' experiences; otherwise, what is the point of a d-school?

I have some input on this issue... Ive posted before regarding this subject...

-Yes first year at USC is pretty laid back, until summer... then it toughens up. Yes 19/~180 are fully completed in time of graduation

-About 75 seniors are qualified to take the board exams

-Yes chair booking is a problem here at the dental school and everonye knows that

-Yes a dental student has to work their a** off to complete the large amount of requirements

-Every dental school is a business... they would not be there if it wasnt at least making some money

I would rather discuss my learning with students than sitting 8-5 in a lecture hall falling asleep half the time then cramming a whole term's information in 2 nights. PBL is not that bad if you give it a chance and are motivated to learn. There is a tendecy to get lazy in the first year and b*tch and complain when things get tough... dental school is not easy... yes USC is not prefect... just make the best of it, suck it up and just get your **** done. Here are some recent info that I know as facts:

-Last year, we had a 93% pass rate on the Western Boards (almost the whole class took this exam) and 100% pass rate on the California boards

-Students have many opportunities to do their operative offsites (which many students recommend) and saving their dental scool clinic time for more involved procedures such as fixed pros, dentures, implants, etc.

-The shortage of chairs and booking patients an issue of current improvement as plans are underway to have staff schedule appointments and not so much students

-The cirriculum is currently under construction to compress the 1st year to get more pre-clinical classes underway so that students will be getting into clinic at a earlier time... meaning that hopefully more students will complete on time

-USCSD is on a trimester schedule, while the rest of the campus is on semester. The senior year of dental school is only 8 months long (sept - april). So a senior at another school might have 10 months (sept -june) so maybe the same student at another school would graduate on time with those extra 2 months of clinic time

-Another point that goes along with the last one... Most students are done by the July or August

mymouthsmells said:

You can't possibly believe if that many people are not graduating on time, it's the student's fault. Could USC just coincidentally allow that many 'lazy' people to attend their school? I highly doubt that. It is true that the onus is on the student to make the most of their education but part of a students success relies on the school. From your prespective, you can conclude that USC is the hardest dental school in the nation if that many people don't graduate on time. I think of it as poor planning and education.

D-school prepares you for the real world. You can't expect students to enter and attend d-school with 'real world' experiences; otherwise, what is the point of a d-school?

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"Every dental school is a business... they would not be there if it wasnt at least making some money."

That's not true in my situation. I am currently enrolled at a program that actually loses money each year from the high costs to operate the dental school. It is a public dental school funded by the state and makes just enough to get by. Keep in mind that our class size is small (31-33 in a class), so we operate on the premise of graduating on time and clinical proficiency. We had the 4th highest NDBE II scores in the country last year. It's a great situation if you can get accepted to the program because of the rock-bottom cost of attendance, new simulation suite, and small class size.

My school hasn't jumped on the cash boat yet, and I hope our administrators never will. That's ridiculous to have that many students not prepared to take their board exams or graduate and charging such high costs to attend. That means the students are getting ripped off and failing at the same time. No thanks!

I have some friends in class of 2007 at usc. the problem is that since the new dean took over, harold slavkin, he brought along couple of his buddies, who are mostly gps. from the sounds of it, they are taking over, stripping of all the powers that prosthodontists once had. And get this, they are even more anal than the prosthodontists. I hear of students having to bring patients in multiple times just to get signed off on impressions for fixed work, which are only signed off by 4-5 faculty who are gps. Further, they have competencies, which until a year ago, you can take with anybody, but starting in the past year, you can only take comps with 4 faculty who are known to be the most anal retentive, who love to fail you just for the heck of it. On top of that, you can only take comps on certain time and certain day. Adding all these together, no wonder students are graduating on time. Where at UCLA, my alma mater, you would take maybe 3 appointment tops to do a single unit crown, seems like at USC, you need to bring them in over 10-15 times just to cement a single unit. That is simply unacceptable. Also, regarding wreb, they only allow you to take wreb after you finish all your comps, which by the time you finish, you have exhausted all your ideal class II's so finding patients for boards is another extremely challenging endeavor. Compounding all these together, it is no wonder that under 20 people out of 180 are graduating on time. I don't know what one may think, but like the previous poster said, you can't have that many incomptent students. I graduated from UCLA back in 2005, and we only had around 7 people who had to stay the extra summer. At USC, I hear upto 20 people from class of 2006 are still there. And from the sounds of it, it is getting tougher every year, because administration is unconcerned about these situations, even after students have been signing petitions. On top of this, what are you gonna do if you matched into a specialty program and you don't graduate on time? The program will not wait for you so that you can finish your 5 more crowns or 5 more dentures. You make your own decision whether you want to attend usc or not. The way I see it, if I pay over 250,000 + interests over 4 yrs, I would expect some sort of pampering and to be able to graduate on time. I went to a public school with cheap tuition, so I had no pampering, yet we still managed to graduate over 90 percent of our class on time.

Well Last year I would have said USC. But now, seeing that DEAN Bertolami from UCSF will be the new DEAN for NYU next year, I WOULD GO HANDS DOWN TO NYU. No questions asked. He will make that program prestigious.

Career Change said:

i.e. IF there are those among you NOT at USC and feel strongly negative, could you say so? (don't necessarily vent here; but just say that you do)

Otherwise, to be honest, i'm gonna be left with this idea that there are distinct problems at USC (large gaps in learning, difficulty graduating on time, etc

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I was accepted at USC, but turned it down. Here is some novel advice that I think everyone should do.

After you are accepted, and trying to make a choice GO BACK TO THE SCHOOL AND VISIT IT FOR A DAY OR TWO ON YOUR OWN. Walk around the school. Ask the admissions officer to arrange for you to sit in a few classes. TALK TO THE STUDENTS WALKING AROUND THE SCHOOL. ASK THE STUDENTS QUESTIONS LIKE THIS:

- are you happy here?
- what do you dislike about the school? what do you like?
- what kind of procedures do you do here

ALSO GET THE SCHOOL TO PUT YOU IN TOUCH WITH RECENT ALUMNI WHO GRADUATED.

If you haven't realized it yet, the school will put out students who really like the school as well as

FYI, I did this at USC and went back for 2 days. I sat in a PBL session and it is kinda BS. The "mock" PBL that they do in the interview is NOTHING like the real thing, and I personally think studying by PBL would suck.

So in summary, I recommend you go back to the schools and poke around on your own, talk to students on your own, and observe the general school operation when it ISN'T an interview day with a bunch of smoke and mirrors.



Can I get USC students to validate (or criticize) this approach for deciding a school? Would you recommend people going back to their accepted schools and checking it out on their own?

Columbia07 said:

how their clinic doc. is screwing the 2nd year so she's graduating next month.

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Details. I want details. PM me if you cannot post it in the main thread.

booshwa said:

Let me tell you how right you are! Having gone through undergrad and maintaining a busy courseload while playing athletics, I have no concept of working hard. I, along with another 150 other seniors just want to cruise through life and let my faculty complete my work for me. Hard work is for losers or people who can't figure out how to cut corners.

It's always good to learn about my school and my work ethic from somebody who isn't even in this program.

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Agreed. Those kids (Columbia, Phil, and the Seansk kid) are idiots. Two out of the three haven't yet even spent 1 minute as a USC dental student and Seansk is a first year.

I think it's nice how they defend the program when in fact, at best, they have second or third hand information though rose colored glasses.

My question to myself when considering USC was "do I really want to attend a program that makes it more difficult on myself to learn?" A close second was "especially if I receive a lesser educutaion?" followed by a third "do I really want to pay more for this?"

I feel for you. Sucks when someone who isn't even in a dental program yaps their mouths and have no idea what they are talking about. Truly a disservice for other people trying to learn more about SC.

jeninny44 said:

Agreed. Those kids (Columbia, Phil, and the Seansk kid) are idiots. Two out of the three haven't yet even spent 1 minute as a USC dental student and Seansk is a first year.

I think it's nice how they defend the program when in fact, at best, they have second or third hand information though rose colored glasses.

My question to myself when considering USC was "do I really want to attend a program that makes it more difficult on myself to learn?" A close second was "especially if I receive a lesser educutaion?" followed by a third "do I really want to pay more for this?"

I feel for you. Sucks when someone who isn't even in a dental program yaps their mouths and have no idea what they are talking about. Truly a disservice for other people trying to learn more about SC.

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Amen to this, very well put; I'll confess I was in the same position as seansk. During my first year I would always defend SC! I love the laid back approach. Now that I have learned how this school operates I really feel I cheapened myself out of a good dental education. Sadly, I'm too far in both time and debt to get out, that's why I'm trying to warn the predents so they don't make the same mistake I made.

P.S.and yes Seansk is an idiot😛

WestCoast said:

I have some friends in class of 2007 at usc. the problem is that since the new dean took over, harold slavkin, he brought along couple of his buddies, who are mostly gps. from the sounds of it, they are taking over, stripping of all the powers that prosthodontists once had. And get this, they are even more anal than the prosthodontists. I hear of students having to bring patients in multiple times just to get signed off on impressions for fixed work, which are only signed off by 4-5 faculty who are gps. Further, they have competencies, which until a year ago, you can take with anybody, but starting in the past year, you can only take comps with 4 faculty who are known to be the most anal retentive, who love to fail you just for the heck of it. On top of that, you can only take comps on certain time and certain day. Adding all these together, no wonder students are graduating on time. Where at UCLA, my alma mater, you would take maybe 3 appointment tops to do a single unit crown, seems like at USC, you need to bring them in over 10-15 times just to cement a single unit. That is simply unacceptable. Also, regarding wreb, they only allow you to take wreb after you finish all your comps, which by the time you finish, you have exhausted all your ideal class II's so finding patients for boards is another extremely challenging endeavor. Compounding all these together, it is no wonder that under 20 people out of 180 are graduating on time. I don't know what one may think, but like the previous poster said, you can't have that many incomptent students. I graduated from UCLA back in 2005, and we only had around 7 people who had to stay the extra summer. At USC, I hear upto 20 people from class of 2006 are still there. And from the sounds of it, it is getting tougher every year, because administration is unconcerned about these situations, even after students have been signing petitions. On top of this, what are you gonna do if you matched into a specialty program and you don't graduate on time? The program will not wait for you so that you can finish your 5 more crowns or 5 more dentures. You make your own decision whether you want to attend usc or not. The way I see it, if I pay over 250,000 + interests over 4 yrs, I would expect some sort of pampering and to be able to graduate on time. I went to a public school with cheap tuition, so I had no pampering, yet we still managed to graduate over 90 percent of our class on time.

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😱😱😱

yeah, i remember a few yrs ago you were pretty adamant about defending how awesome usc was. funny how time finally helps you realize the truth 😀

TeethVader said:

Amen to this, very well put; I'll confess I was in the same position as seansk. During my first year I would always defend SC! I love the laid back approach. Now that I have learned how this school operates I really feel I cheapened myself out of a good dental education. Sadly, I'm too far in both time and debt to get out, that's why I'm trying to warn the predents so they don't make the same mistake I made.

P.S.and yes Seansk is an idiot😛

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jeninny44 said:

Agreed. Those kids (Columbia, Phil, and the Seansk kid) are idiots. Two out of the three haven't yet even spent 1 minute as a USC dental student and Seansk is a first year.

I think it's nice how they defend the program when in fact, at best, they have second or third hand information though rose colored glasses.

My question to myself when considering USC was "do I really want to attend a program that makes it more difficult on myself to learn?" A close second was "especially if I receive a lesser educutaion?" followed by a third "do I really want to pay more for this?"

I feel for you. Sucks when someone who isn't even in a dental program yaps their mouths and have no idea what they are talking about. Truly a disservice for other people trying to learn more about SC.

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I'm glad you think so highly of me. Anyways, I will answer your questions from my perspective.

1. I don't think SC' makes it any more difficult to learn. I'm still going to read the same pathology, physiology, anatomy, etc books that you'll be reading. The only difference, you will be given a powerpoint (that you won't look at until a week before the exam because you know the info. you need for the exam is in that nice little packet for you). Second, and we all do this to a certain extent, you will go to lecture and sit there counting the minutes because you know you have the powerpoint at home. So, in the end, I think I will be forced to discuss what I've learned in a setting that may actually improve my understanding of the literature. Wouldn't you rather learn the information in the context of a case rather than just remember x number of slides?

2. "do I really want to pay more for this?" Well, I don't know what "this" is, but I will venture to guess that "this" means my education. The thing that people are blinded by is that they think because their professors spent time making a powerpoint that you're getting your money's worth. Most powerpoints take a few hours to make and are usually some rendition of the text assigned for the course. Why the hell do I need some other person to rewrite the text book for me, then read it to me while I zone out when I can go to the library every day for 4 hours and study the material? Here are some questions for you to consider:
Can you fall asleep in lecture? Can you just decide not to go to lecture? Can you fall asleep in a PBL case (I'm sure it's happened, but I don't think it's as common as a lecture setting)? Can you skip an entire semester of PBL without the facilitator noticing? I think you can see where I'm going with this.

You called me an idiot, which I appreciate, and you told me that I have "second or third-hand information." So tell me this, how do you know that I'm going to receive a lesser education than you, when you've never attended USC for dental school? I think it is you with the second or third-hand information. When you're going to make an argument for something, make sure you don't contradict yourself. Education is always what you make of it. We all have the same texts and we will all learn the same procedures. In the end, it is what you make of the time you have in dental school.

I admit that I'm not at USC Dental yet, and my original post was in response to "students feeling entitled to the DDS/DMD degree." Secondly, I never said that those who are b*tching and moaning are the ones not graduating on time. It is obvious that the school and students are both to blame. SC' will work it out and I'm sure when requirements to graduate on time are not a problem then it will be something else.

jeninny44 said:

Agreed. Those kids (Columbia, Phil, and the Seansk kid) are idiots. Two out of the three haven't yet even spent 1 minute as a USC dental student and Seansk is a first year.

I think it's nice how they defend the program when in fact, at best, they have second or third hand information though rose colored glasses.

My question to myself when considering USC was "do I really want to attend a program that makes it more difficult on myself to learn?" A close second was "especially if I receive a lesser educutaion?" followed by a third "do I really want to pay more for this?"

I feel for you. Sucks when someone who isn't even in a dental program yaps their mouths and have no idea what they are talking about. Truly a disservice for other people trying to learn more about SC.

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and now for my rebuttal? sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. you can say all you want about us pre-dents who have yet to step foot into the program - i quite frankly dont give a damn. whether you're a first year, graduating senior, graduate specialty student, or professor, everyone has their own set of experiences. going along with what columbia is saying, if i'd rather go to a dental school that allows me to learn outside of the lecture setting, then i'll do just that. if you want to go to a traditional lecture based program, do it. but dont ever assume that just because someone else is teaching you that you're better off than anyone else. we're all learning the same **** and we're all gonna end up being dentists. and yeah... sc has some effed up stuff goin on... but im sure that sc will handle this stuff... if not... whatever.. ill work around it...

anyways... wish me luck you bitches... im gonna be thrown into the mouth of hell, according to everyone out there in SDN world... see you in the fall columbia...

philchungski said:

and now for my rebuttal? sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. you can say all you want about us pre-dents who have yet to step foot into the program - i quite frankly dont give a damn. whether you're a first year, graduating senior, graduate specialty student, or professor, everyone has their own set of experiences. going along with what columbia is saying, if i'd rather go to a dental school that allows me to learn outside of the lecture setting, then i'll do just that. if you want to go to a traditional lecture based program, do it. but dont ever assume that just because someone else is teaching you that you're better off than anyone else. we're all learning the same **** and we're all gonna end up being dentists. and yeah... sc has some effed up stuff goin on... but im sure that sc will handle this stuff... if not... whatever.. ill work around it...

anyways... wish me luck you bitches... im gonna be thrown into the mouth of hell, according to everyone out there in SDN world... see you in the fall columbia...

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Good luck phill, you will really need it. Once again, if you have another admission offer take it!! Otherwise, see you here in August!!

Columbia07 said:

I'm glad you think so highly of me. Anyways, I will answer your questions from my perspective.

1. I don't think SC' makes it any more difficult to learn. I'm still going to read the same pathology, physiology, anatomy, etc books that you'll be reading. The only difference, you will be given a powerpoint (that you won't look at until a week before the exam because you know the info. you need for the exam is in that nice little packet for you). Second, and we all do this to a certain extent, you will go to lecture and sit there counting the minutes because you know you have the powerpoint at home. So, in the end, I think I will be forced to discuss what I've learned in a setting that may actually improve my understanding of the literature. Wouldn't you rather learn the information in the context of a case rather than just remember x number of slides?

2. "do I really want to pay more for this?" Well, I don't know what "this" is, but I will venture to guess that "this" means my education. The thing that people are blinded by is that they think because their professors spent time making a powerpoint that you're getting your money's worth. Most powerpoints take a few hours to make and are usually some rendition of the text assigned for the course. Why the hell do I need some other person to rewrite the text book for me, then read it to me while I zone out when I can go to the library every day for 4 hours and study the material? Here are some questions for you to consider:
Can you fall asleep in lecture? Can you just decide not to go to lecture? Can you fall asleep in a PBL case (I'm sure it's happened, but I don't think it's as common as a lecture setting)? Can you skip an entire semester of PBL without the facilitator noticing? I think you can see where I'm going with this.

You called me an idiot, which I appreciate, and you told me that I have "second or third-hand information." So tell me this, how do you know that I'm going to receive a lesser education than you, when you've never attended USC for dental school? I think it is you with the second or third-hand information. When you're going to make an argument for something, make sure you don't contradict yourself. Education is always what you make of it. We all have the same texts and we will all learn the same procedures. In the end, it is what you make of the time you have in dental school.

I admit that I'm not at USC Dental yet, and my original post was in response to "students feeling entitled to the DDS/DMD degree." Secondly, I never said that those who are b*tching and moaning are the ones not graduating on time. It is obvious that the school and students are both to blame. SC' will work it out and I'm sure when requirements to graduate on time are not a problem then it will be something else.

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You see, the whole problem is this is what you "think" and you do not "know." The issue I take with you is that you have no first hand experience, yet you post these long replies that need to have chapter 1, chapter 2, and so on...

FYI, I only made it as far as your second sentence before stopping. I have not read your post. I cannot bring myself to read a bunch of information that is almost entirely speculative. I'll listen to a 3rd or 4th year USC dental student any day over your opinion.

philchungski said:

if i'd rather go to a dental school that allows me to learn outside of the lecture setting, then i'll do just that. if you want to go to a traditional lecture based program, do it.

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Nothing is stopping you from learning outside of the lecture setting at a traditional school. In fact, you could go to lecture and then do research (the same as you would for PBL) on your own. Nobody said going to a lecture-based school stops you from thinking outside of the lecture

For USC bragging about how PBL increases student's logic and problem solving skills some of these posts certainly makes me wonder. Oh well.. you're not even a dental student yet, so I'll forgive you 😉

jeninny44 said:

Nothing is stopping you from learning outside of the lecture setting at a traditional school. In fact, you could go to lecture and then do research (the same as you would for PBL) on your own. Nobody said going to a lecture-based school stops you from thinking outside of the lecture

For USC bragging about how PBL increases student's logic and problem solving skills some of these posts certainly makes me wonder. Oh well.. you're not even a dental student yet, so I'll forgive you 😉

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make your own conclusions about whichever school you plan to attend... dont take this or any other sdn posts too seriously cuz you have people on this forum that really dont help the cause... especially posts that deal with questions about what school you should go to?... find the schools you feel may fit your needs, apply, visit, ask questions, etc... then choose the school YOU feel most comfortable with... eff the world.. its you that is going to be going through with it.. good luck...

what does pbl mean?
sorry but im completely new to this and i have no idea what the teaching patterns are like in dental schools in the us

philchungski said:

1) jeninny44 - think you need a nice big c*ck in your mouth because you talk way too much **** for your own good.
2) jeninny44 - i think the doctor who delivered you must have put a permanent rod up your ass because you are definitely full of ****..
3) jeninny44 - why dont we keep in contact to see where we are in 10 years? hopefully ill be a better dentist than you will ever be so i can hire you as an associate, pay you ****, and make you my bitch...

everyone else... make your own conclusions about whichever school you plan to attend... dont take this or any other sdn posts too seriously cuz you have bitches on this forum that really dont help the cause... especially posts that deal with questions about what school you should go to?... find the schools you feel may fit your needs, apply, visit, ask questions, etc... then choose the school YOU feel most comfortable with... eff the world.. its you that is going to be going through with it.. good luck...

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Seriously phil, time to take a chill pill. Resorting to name calling and vulgarity probably aren't the best ways to defend your program.

that was completely childish, phil. 🙄 This is how a thread gets closed by a mod. what a loser.

well then lets close it up... i stand by my words...

philchungski said:

1) jeninny44 - think you need a nice big c*ck in your mouth because you talk way too much **** for your own good.
2) jeninny44 - i think the doctor who delivered you must have put a permanent rod up your ass because you are definitely full of ****..
3) jeninny44 - why dont we keep in contact to see where we are in 10 years? hopefully ill be a better dentist than you will ever be so i can hire you as an associate, pay you ****, and make you my bitch...

everyone else... make your own conclusions about whichever school you plan to attend... dont take this or any other sdn posts too seriously cuz you have bitches on this forum that really dont help the cause... especially posts that deal with questions about what school you should go to?... find the schools you feel may fit your needs, apply, visit, ask questions, etc... then choose the school YOU feel most comfortable with... eff the world.. its you that is going to be going through with it.. good luck...

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Just the kind of person I'm looking forward to having join me at USC. You are exactly what is wrong with the school. Grow up. We don't need those comments on this site.

philchungski said:

1) jeninny44 - think you need a nice big c*ck in your mouth because you talk way too much **** for your own good.
2) jeninny44 - i think the doctor who delivered you must have put a permanent rod up your ass because you are definitely full of ****..
3) jeninny44 - why dont we keep in contact to see where we are in 10 years? hopefully ill be a better dentist than you will ever be so i can hire you as an associate, pay you ****, and make you my bitch...

everyone else... make your own conclusions about whichever school you plan to attend... dont take this or any other sdn posts too seriously cuz you have bitches on this forum that really dont help the cause... especially posts that deal with questions about what school you should go to?... find the schools you feel may fit your needs, apply, visit, ask questions, etc... then choose the school YOU feel most comfortable with... eff the world.. its you that is going to be going through with it.. good luck...

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Your embarrassing yourself with this type of HS mud flinging. Be cool dude.

jeninny44 said:

I'll listen to a 3rd or 4th year USC dental student any day over your opinion.

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4th year checking in...

First off, the school does have its problems, but so do all other schools. No program is perfect.

I see two topics of discussion regarding USC's program, one is PBL and the other is the clinic.

First PBL. I have gone through the entire process so i speak first hand Do i think it works? Yes it can, especially for the sciences since we have some background. But for dental topics, I would like to see more presentations and resources in addition to PBL. I think Dr Kahn's composite class was 1st class. We had updated manuals, lots of coverage, and very calibrated faculty. Hopefully, other pre-clinical courses (fixed, endo, removable) will follow suit. Thats the type of education I think we deserve for the price we pay. Overall, I was happy with the 1st half of my education and did very well on boards.

Now as for the clinic. I am only 1/2 way through, so I may have not seen all the problems. But here is what I think... No problem with patients, although I have heard other classmates have not been as fortunate. So far my frustrations are regarding faculty coverage, getting chairs, and getting the job done. I believe these problems are caused by the large class size, and I dont think there is a short term solution. This is something we have to deal with at USC. In regards to students not graduating on time, I'll have to wait to see how it goes. Some things have changed since last year..namely, not having to give patients to seniors. Although this screws the 2007 class, hopefully it will break the cycle. Comps are another (new) problem since the new policy that only certain faculty can administer the test. Dr Harmatz is the new chair of fixed, and he seems very dedicated to making a difference (especially with accreditation coming up). We have a mandatory meeting coming up next week to "assist you in taking and passing your Clinical Competency Examinations".

There has been a lot of USC bashing lately on SDN, but I dont think its as bad as people are making it seem. Like another poster said, go see for yourself and make a decision based on your own criteria and goals...

Good luck

ShawnOne said:

4th year checking in...

There has been a lot of USC bashing lately on SDN, but I dont think its as bad as people are making it seem. Like another poster said, go see for yourself and make a decision based on your own criteria and goals...

Good luck

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I am a soon to be third year at USC and I agree with you completely. PBL has worked very well for me, and I have zero regrets about attending this school. I'm a little tired of hearing from this and other threads about how us at SC are not getting a "good dental education". This school challenges us with many obstacles to graduate (high requirements, difficult competency exams throughout the second two years), however, we live in LA with an enormous patient pool, and so it's manageable. I have confidence in the fact that when you graduate from here, you are equally or more competent clinically than any other dental school grad in the country. I just don't understand why people on SDN are so obsessed with talking about and trashing USC. Me personally, I have never give much thought about what goes on at other dental schools, what's the point? I mean, I love where I'm at, and I'm learning a lot, and all I can do is hope others are doing the same at other schools, and that's where it ends.

Here it is....stats speak louder than words and mere speculation, these are the raw true numbers presented by the top chief at USC Dental clinic:
The following statistics on the percentage of seniors graduating in a particular month of a particular year were presented by Dr. Mulvehill during the last town meeting.



YEAR: (below) Grad MONTH: MAY AUG DEC

--------- ------------------------------------

2003 78% 99% 100%

2004 71% 94% 99

2005 74 95 98

2006 34 84 88

2007 18 ? ?

Once again, this are the true numbers from USC Dental and personally, I feel this are atrocious and worrysome numbers. Once again, if these are not scary stats, I do no what will. Namotu will, perhaps, change his point of view once he enters the clinic and gets to live the nightmares of the clinic here at SC. Go Bruins!!!!

again... if current dental students didnt spend their free time whoring on SDN... maybe the stats wouldnt be so low? and maybe if you cared a little, you would work harder to improve the stats that represent the VERY program you will be graduating from... i dunno... im at a loss for words for the people who continue to sit there, do nothing, and complain all the time. the school already knows by now that this is a major problem. im sure dean slavkin and the rest of the school's fellows will do all that it takes to make it NOT a problem... we are talkin about a great program here,(i think most people have forgotten about that) that has been up and running since 1897... i dont think usc will allow their name to be tarnished... one last thing... i dont see why it is necessary to rag on your own program... the program that you will graduate from. the program that everyone will know you graduated from. why not try to improve and be a role model for those coming in?

ps... its too late for all this **** talkin anyways... the class is supposedly 100% full and i dont think anyone is backing out at this point of the process... all i can say... as cheesy as it may sound... "class of 2011 - lets make a difference and prove these complainers wrong"..

TeethVader said:

Go Bruins!!!!

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haha..i like that

philchungski said:

again... if current dental students didnt spend their free time whoring on SDN... maybe the stats wouldnt be so low? and maybe if you cared a little, you would work harder to improve the stats that represent the VERY program you will be graduating from... i dunno... im at a loss for words for the people who continue to sit there, do nothing, and complain all the time. the school already knows by now that this is a major problem. im sure dean slavkin and the rest of the school's fellows will do all that it takes to make it NOT a problem... we are talkin about a great program here,(i think most people have forgotten about that) that has been up and running since 1897... i dont think usc will allow their name to be tarnished... one last thing... i dont see why it is necessary to rag on your own program... the program that you will graduate from. the program that everyone will know you graduated from. why not try to improve and be a role model for those coming in?

ps... its too late for all this **** talkin anyways... the class is supposedly 100% full and i dont think anyone is backing out at this point of the process... all i can say... as cheesy as it may sound... "class of 2011 - lets make a difference and prove these complainers wrong"..

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philchungski said:

again... if current dental students didnt spend their free time whoring on SDN... maybe the stats wouldnt be so low? and maybe if you cared a little, you would work harder to improve the stats that represent the VERY program you will be graduating from... i dunno... im at a loss for words for the people who continue to sit there, do nothing, and complain all the time. the school already knows by now that this is a major problem. im sure dean slavkin and the rest of the school's fellows will do all that it takes to make it NOT a problem... we are talkin about a great program here,(i think most people have forgotten about that) that has been up and running since 1897... i dont think usc will allow their name to be tarnished... one last thing... i dont see why it is necessary to rag on your own program... the program that you will graduate from. the program that everyone will know you graduated from. why not try to improve and be a role model for those coming in?

ps... its too late for all this **** talkin anyways... the class is supposedly 100% full and i dont think anyone is backing out at this point of the process... all i can say... as cheesy as it may sound... "class of 2011 - lets make a difference and prove these complainers wrong"..

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First of all, you have totally lost your credibility and should be banned from SDN for insulting jenny the way you did; the worst part is that you'll become a USC trojan putting the program in a deeper hole that it is right now; well, SC gets what it deserves

USC is not unique among professional schools. A few medical schools have tried a full-blown PBL curriculum with less than stellar results (see link below). PBL has its strengths but it also has inherent flaws.

Those students who complain are not lazy and are just pin-pointing the intrinsic curriculum flaws that may need some modification ie, by simply adding a few more lectures and subtracting some PBL sessions.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=376880&highlight=PBL

sorry guys and gals... just tired of hearing people rag on sc... that is all... apologies for the rude/negative comments... just venting... dont mind me... after all... i am still only a predent.... peace

This is a good discussion, but please remember to be respectful of other guest's opinions. Thanks.

I agree that it is ultimately up to the student to succeed and graduate however school can play a huge part in terms of preparing you for the boards, supplying you with patients, and having a reasonable student/faculty ratio. For example you cannot say that if a student really wants to have patients then it is ultimately up to him/her. As responsible as the student must, the school also needs to be held accountable to some degree for some of the needs of the students. Now USC needs to work on its part to make education more easy for students. But I have a feeling USC is going to take the easy short cut of lowering the graduation requirements rather than changing its system. Columbia did the same.

philchungski said:

sorry guys and gals... just tired of hearing people rag on sc... that is all... apologies for the rude/negative comments... just venting... dont mind me... after all... i am still only a predent.... peace

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That still does not mean you can insult someone with vulgar, sexually charged, sexist comments just because you do not like what you hear.

At least I was the bigger person and apologized for stepping slightly out of line only 1/1000th the severity of what you did. You directly attacked me, and have not once apologized to me through the message board or PM. Not that I want your apology, or it will mean anything at this point, as you have shown your true colors, but

Saying you are "just a predent" gives you no excuse to write the awful things you wrote. I would have been a whole lot more impressed if you could have debated logically about the topic, instead of attacking me with sexist and crude comments.

Just because my opinion is different, and you do not like what you hear doesn't mean you have the right to attack me.

Good luck at SC next year.

jeninny44 said:

That still does not mean you can insult someone with vulgar, sexually charged, sexist comments just because you do not like what you hear.

At least I was the bigger person and apologized for stepping slightly out of line only 1/1000th the severity of what you did. You directly attacked me, and have not once apologized to me through the message board or PM. Not that I want your apology, or it will mean anything at this point, as you have shown your true colors, but

Saying you are "just a predent" gives you no excuse to write the awful things you wrote. I would have been a whole lot more impressed if you could have debated logically about the topic, instead of attacking me with sexist and crude comments.

Just because my opinion is different, and you do not like what you hear doesn't mean you have the right to attack me.

Good luck at SC next year.

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Not to but let's not forget that you did call me an idiot. Good luck with your pity party.