Navy Bonus

I just got an info-ad in the mail from Navy HPSP and they are now offering $20,000 as an up front sign-on bonus. I have no further details as to terms or stipulations, etc.

Last I heard it was for M-2's. The four year deal was unchanged, this was three year with signing bonus.

The only people who will receive a signing bonus at present are 2009 grads signing up for the Navy this year.

I think instead of a bonus they should offer guaranteed straight through specialty training (no GMO tour). That seems to me to be the big bottle neck.

IgD said:

I think instead of a bonus they should offer guaranteed straight through specialty training (no GMO tour). That seems to me to be the big bottle neck.

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I agree with your concept, but they can’t create new GME positions without increasing patient load. Outsourcing is the order of tha day in MILMED.

NavyFP said:

The only people who will receive a signing bonus at present are 2009 grads signing up for the Navy this year.

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The policy has now changed. All Medicine and Dental students who sign an HPSP contract between 1 Oct 06 and 30 Sep 07 will get $20K. There is a 4 year minimum service obligation associated with it, but as long as 3 years do their internship in the Navy, it does not add any time to the contract.

NavyFP said:

The policy has now changed. All Medicine and Dental students who sign an HPSP contract between 1 Oct 06 and 30 Sep 07 will get $20K. There is a 4 year minimum service obligation associated with it, but as long as 3 years do their internship in the Navy, it does not add any time to the contract.

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Just so that I am clear, I am getting ready to sign a four your Dental HPSP contract (as soon as scroll approval arrives). This would mean that I would get a 20k bonus? Just want to make sure before I give my recruiter a call. Thanks.

It is official. i talked to my recruiter yesterday and he read me the letter himself. ALL get the 20K bonus. im Med and im waiting for my scroll appoval too. when your scrool is confirmed, it should be in your letter you get sayin you got the scholarship. im too happy to hear the news.

jfitzpat said:

Just so that I am clear, I am getting ready to sign a four your Dental HPSP contract (as soon as scroll approval arrives). This would mean that I would get a 20k bonus? Just want to make sure before I give my recruiter a call. Thanks.

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The short of it is yes, you will get the $20K.

NavyFP said:

The short of it is yes, you will get the $20K.

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Thanks for the reply. I just spoke with my recruiter and he also confirmed it to be true.

Glad to see the Navy finally came through on a promise (a year late, of course, as we were promised this at OIS back in 2006). Better late than never, I guess. Sucks for those of us in 2009 and 2010, though.

I just sent an email to my recruiter. I, too, am waiting on scroll approval to be sworn in.
Any idea when you get the 20K?

SeminoleFan3 said:

I just sent an email to my recruiter. I, too, am waiting on scroll approval to be sworn in.
Any idea when you get the 20K?

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You get it direct deposited into your account on your BSD. Benefit Starting Date.

Fkency said:

You get it direct deposited into your account on your BSD. Benefit Starting Date.

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Yay!

Since I'm 2009 and won't be getting the $20k, I just thought I'd be a prick and remind you that Uncle Sam will take his half back. That makes me feel a little better.

I'd like to see this in some sort of official documentation.

|2idicu|ous said:

I'd like to see this in some sort of official documentation.

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That's what I was thinking this evening. Will it be written into our contract somewhere?

|2idicu|ous said:

I'd like to see this in some sort of official documentation.

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I signed the form and mailed it today. I would post a copy of it, but I don't know if I am allowed to do so.

jfitzpat said:

I signed the form and mailed it today. I would post a copy of it, but I don't know if I am allowed to do so.

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As long as there's some sort of documentation, I'm good with that. Hopefully, my recruiter will get back with me today.

Tooth said:

Since I'm 2009 and won't be getting the $20k, I just thought I'd be a prick and remind you that Uncle Sam will take his half back. That makes me feel a little better.

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I am curious. About how much will they take back in taxes?

MaxAnn said:

I am curious. About how much will they take back in taxes?

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25% Federal
2-8% State (depends on your state)

This is awesome. I haven't signed my HPSP yet because it still needs to be okayed by the Secretary, but a 20k bonus would be amazing.

I think taxes are like 30% or so, depending on wher you live. A friend of mine got a Nuke officer bonus of 15k but I think got slightly less than 10k after taxes. But he lived in CA, so...

I'm hoping for at least 12k or so after taxes. That'd be great to max out IRA contributions for this year and maybe a nice little treat...

I talked with my recruiter and the bonus was confirmed. It came out last Friday and if you sign before 1 October you get the $20,000 bonus.

That is pure awesome.

Founder said:

I talked with my recruiter and the bonus was confirmed. It came out last Friday and if you sign before 1 October you get the $20,000 bonus.

That is pure awesome.

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What if you signed a 4-yr deal before the bonus came out for the c/o 2011? I haven't, but, I'm just wondering if I would have missed out had I signed back in May.

I don't know... but these are usually backdated aren't they? My recruiter didn't go into much details since we were both in a rush.

I'm glad the Navy is doing this. The Navy really needs to take care of its people and this can only help them in the long run.

i posted this in a dental mil thread as well, but thought i'd ask here, as there is usually more activity..

i'm going to do the army hpsp for dental school. is there any way to use the information about the navy giving 20k sign up bonuses for the hpsp to try and get some sort of bonus from the army?

thanks.

Is there a reference for this new bonus program?

Food for thought: what are the morale implications of having one set of folks (class of 2009) who get jack squat bonus working alongside another group of folks (class of 2010) who get $20k more for the same commitment? Kinda makes me wish I had waited a year to start medical school....

NavyFP said:

25% Federal
2-8% State (depends on your state)

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So states like Alaska and Nevada that don't have a state income tax will still take out 2%? What kind of a crazy answer is that?

Founder said:

I talked with my recruiter and the bonus was confirmed. It came out last Friday and if you sign before 1 October you get the $20,000 bonus.

That is pure awesome.

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If you think that is pure awesome, wait until you get the ASP! $15,000 every July! That's totally awesome! Except, of course, for the fact that your friends who didn't take the scholarship also get $15K in June, July, August, and every other month while you idle away with $6K/month.

My friend and his wife both work for the military. She paid for school with loans and is a contractor. He paid for school with HPSP and is active duty. After less than one year here her loans are paid off. He and I are off to the Middle East as we enjoy the next few years paying back our "loans." I figured out once that I came out $180K behind by taking HPSP over loans. Do you really think that 20K is so awesome now? 20K would be one month's salary if I weren't in the military.

ActiveDutyMD said:

So states like Alaska and Nevada that don't have a state income tax will still take out 2%? What kind of a crazy answer is that?

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No, states w/o income tax will take 0%. You are correct a crazy answer.

pauljeekim said:

i posted this in a dental mil thread as well, but thought i'd ask here, as there is usually more activity..

i'm going to do the army hpsp for dental school. is there any way to use the information about the navy giving 20k sign up bonuses for the hpsp to try and get some sort of bonus from the army?

thanks.

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Don't hold your breath.

ActiveDutyMD said:

If you think that is pure awesome, wait until you get the ASP! $15,000 every July! That's totally awesome! Except, of course, for the fact that your friends who didn't take the scholarship also get $15K in June, July, August, and every other month while you idle away with $6K/month.

My friend and his wife both work for the military. She paid for school with loans and is a contractor. He paid for school with HPSP and is active duty. After less than one year here her loans are paid off. He and I are off to the Middle East as we enjoy the next few years paying back our "loans." I figured out once that I came out $180K behind by taking HPSP over loans. Do you really think that 20K is so awesome now? 20K would be one month's salary if I weren't in the military.

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What in the world? The guy is just excited because he was already going to do the program any way, and now he finds out that he's getting an extra 20K when he starts school. While 20K might not seem like a lot when you're done with residency, it sure does right now. I'm convinced that most people in this forum just can't let anyone be happy about anything.

Alright seriously, the nuke bonus always used to go up every couple of years. You could renogotiate your 3,4,5 year contract for a new contract under the new rate. Can we do the same, ie can a 2010 guy renogotiate their contract and get the bonus? Have a hard time belivieving the military is magically just send me 15k retroactively.

ActiveDutyMD said:

If you think that is pure awesome, wait until you get the ASP! $15,000 every July! That's totally awesome! Except, of course, for the fact that your friends who didn't take the scholarship also get $15K in June, July, August, and every other month while you idle away with $6K/month.

My friend and his wife both work for the military. She paid for school with loans and is a contractor. He paid for school with HPSP and is active duty. After less than one year here her loans are paid off. He and I are off to the Middle East as we enjoy the next few years paying back our "loans." I figured out once that I came out $180K behind by taking HPSP over loans. Do you really think that 20K is so awesome now? 20K would be one month's salary if I weren't in the military.

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It's still pure awesome. Because I plan on going career as a military physician anyway. The pay for civilian doctors really doesn't concern me.

And since I was also NROTC scholarship either HPSP or USUHS was my only way to go to medical school.

The added pay in bonuses once I start active duty are just that; bonuses.
I already will have the great perk of serving the US. The extra money from the bonuses will be great and just be icing on the cake.

Madonna, like a virgin, seem appropriate. Only because I'm prior, it aint' rosy glasses down her.

beegeforty4 said:

I just got the call today from my recruiter letting me know that I would receive the bonus as well...so of course I immediately came here to correct this thread.

From what my recruiter was telling me, two of the other guys he commissioned last year (who are now about to begin their second year) also got the bonus (full $20,000). I have to believe that whenever you signed up you're allowed the money.

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How sure was your recruiter about the bolded statement?

beegeforty4 said:

I just got the call today from my recruiter letting me know that I would receive the bonus as well...so of course I immediately came here to correct this thread.

From what my recruiter was telling me, two of the other guys he commissioned last year (who are now about to begin their second year) also got the bonus (full $20,000). I have to believe that whenever you signed up you're allowed the money.

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megadon said:

Alright seriously, the nuke bonus always used to go up every couple of years. You could renogotiate your 3,4,5 year contract for a new contract under the new rate. Can we do the same, ie can a 2010 guy renogotiate their contract and get the bonus? Have a hard time belivieving the military is magically just send me 15k retroactively.

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|2idicu|ous said:

How sure was your recruiter about the bolded statement?

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The bonus is only for students who signed a contract after 1 Oct 2006, and no, you can't renegotiate.

It lasts until 1 Oct 2007. But by 2009 or 2008 there will probably be some other things out there. I wouldn't get dissapointed, I can see financial incentives increasing. With the wars going on and all that.

Founder said:

It lasts until 1 Oct 2007. But by 2009 or 2008 there will probably be some other things out there. I wouldn't get dissapointed, I can see financial incentives increasing. With the wars going on and all that.

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Beatings will continue until morale improves and "bonuses" will keep coming until recruitment and retention improve. But the horse is already out of the barn.

I don't mean to rain on your parade. I would certainly be happy if 20K were handed to me that I wasn't expected. I'm just trying to help everyone see the big picture.

ActiveDutyMD said:

If you think that is pure awesome, wait until you get the ASP! $15,000 every July! That's totally awesome! Except, of course, for the fact that your friends who didn't take the scholarship also get $15K in June, July, August, and every other month while you idle away with $6K/month.

My friend and his wife both work for the military. She paid for school with loans and is a contractor. He paid for school with HPSP and is active duty. After less than one year here her loans are paid off. He and I are off to the Middle East as we enjoy the next few years paying back our "loans." I figured out once that I came out $180K behind by taking HPSP over loans. Do you really think that 20K is so awesome now? 20K would be one month's salary if I weren't in the military.

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I see where you are coming from with this, but the scenario you depict isn't always going to be as accurate or clear cut. Depending on where that person went to school and how many loans they took out in the first place, there are other students for which the hpsp will not result in a net loss.

Realistically, not everyone is going to be able to pay off loans in such a short time. If it were that easy, then the student loan industry would not be a billion dollar beast constantly cashing in on interest rates from high principle loans that most borrowers take several years to pay down to manageable amounts.

For some who have less debt outside of student loans additionally, and who took out less debt for education itself, hpsp may not make financial sense, but to some others it might.

Really, making the decision to choose hpsp based on finances alone is a poor one, which would most likely lead to a feeling of financial neglect in the long run.

MaxAnn said:

I see where you are coming from with this, but the scenario you depict isn't always going to be as accurate or clear cut. Depending on where that person went to school and how many loans they took out in the first place, there are other students for which the hpsp will not result in a net loss.

Realistically, not everyone is going to be able to pay off loans in such a short time. If it were that easy, then the student loan industry would not be a billion dollar beast constantly cashing in on interest rates from high principle loans that most borrowers take several years to pay down to manageable amounts.

For some who have less debt outside of student loans additionally, and who took out less debt for education itself, hpsp may not make financial sense, but to some others it might.

Really, making the decision to choose hpsp based on finances alone is a poor one, which would most likely lead to a feeling of financial neglect in the long run.

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I agree. If you're going to a state-school or have any sort of scholarship, then it doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense. I however, am about to get about 250K in the whole, and after interest it turns into about 330K. It makes a lot more financial sense for me. Plus, (right now, and subject to change I guess), I don't find myself interested in very high paying specialties, so there's not much chance I'd be paying back my crapload worth of loans in the very near future.

Beatings will continue until morale improves and "bonuses" will keep coming until recruitment and retention improve.

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Are any of the other active-duty physicians dismayed by this development of a rapid, massive increase in the HPSP signing bonus? It’s disappointing to me, because instead of trying to fix the problems that have led directly to poor recruiting and retention—GMO system, GME decline, poor practice conditions, etc.—we are waving wads of cash at indebted 22 year-olds. It all makes perfect financial sense of course, since paying $20K up front to improve recruiting is way cheaper than doing away with GMO’s, increasing support staff, improved compensation for attendings, or any other major systemic changes.

This is one reason I am pessimistic about prospects for any near-term improvement in military medicine. It will always be cheaper to increase the HPSP stipend or give a signing bonus and get more people in the pipeline than it will be to make changes that will keep physicians happy.

What do some of the pre-meds think about the bonus? Is it sufficient to get more people to sign up, or pick the Navy scholarship over Army or AF?

mitchconnie said:

Are any of the other active-duty physicians dismayed by this development of a rapid, massive increase in the HPSP signing bonus? It's disappointing to me, because instead of trying to fix the problems that have led directly to poor recruiting and retention—GMO system, GME decline, poor practice conditions, etc.—we are waving wads of cash at indebted 22 year-olds. It all makes perfect financial sense of course, since paying $20K up front to improve recruiting is way cheaper than doing away with GMO's, increasing support staff, improved compensation for attendings, or any other major systemic changes.

This is one reason I am pessimistic about prospects for any near-term improvement in military medicine. It will always be cheaper to increase the HPSP stipend or give a signing bonus and get more people in the pipeline than it will be to make changes that will keep physicians happy.

What do some of the pre-meds think about the bonus? Is it sufficient to get more people to sign up, or pick the Navy scholarship over Army or AF?

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I was already going to sign up. However, if I was still considering it, I'm not sure the bonus would have swayed me yay or nay, but it definitely would have influenced my choice of service decision. For me, it was a close call between Navy or AF. Had the bonus been around when I was still making my decision, it wouldn't have been question at all. It's my understanding that the Navy is the service having the hardest time meeting its physician recruiting goals, so it makes sense to offer the bonus through that service.

SeminoleFan3 said:

I agree. If you're going to a state-school or have any sort of scholarship, then it doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense. I however, am about to get about 250K in the whole, and after interest it turns into about 330K. It makes a lot more financial sense for me. Plus, (right now, and subject to change I guess), I don't find myself interested in very high paying specialties, so there's not much chance I'd be paying back my crapload worth of loans in the very near future.

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If you run the numbers it turns out the scholarship works out well financially for several groups of people:

1) Those attending very expensive medical schools
2) Those going into poorly paying specialties
3) Those who wouldn't make it as a civilian physician
4) Those with prior service (especially if they attend USUHS)
5) Those interested in military-only specialties like flight medicine
6) Those with great desire to do a military residency
7) Those who would go into the military no matter what it pays

The more of those factors that are in your favor, the better probability that taking the scholarship will be better than a break-even proposition.

For me, I had 0/7, so it worked out very poorly for me. I encourage any person who actually considers the military to run the numbers. $250K in loans seems like a lot of money to a pre-med, but I would gladly take out a $250K loan right now in order to get out of my last 3 years of commitment. Had I not taken the scholarship I think I could have made it out of med school with 70-80K (and consolidated it at 1.9%). Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

ActiveDutyMD said:

If you run the numbers it turns out the scholarship works out well financially for several groups of people:

1) Those attending very expensive medical schools
2) Those going into poorly paying specialties
3) Those who wouldn't make it as a civilian physician
4) Those with prior service (especially if they attend USUHS)
5) Those interested in military-only specialties like flight medicine
6) Those with great desire to do a military residency
7) Those who would go into the military no matter what it pays

The more of those factors that are in your favor, the better probability that taking the scholarship will be better than a break-even proposition.

For me, I had 0/7, so it worked out very poorly for me. I encourage any person who actually considers the military to run the numbers. $250K in loans seems like a lot of money to a pre-med, but I would gladly take out a $250K loan right now in order to get out of my last 3 years of commitment. Had I not taken the scholarship I think I could have made it out of med school with 70-80K (and consolidated it at 1.9%). Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

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Thats some harsh stuff. Funny, but harsh. To be devils advocate, some specialties like infectious disease hold a serious bonus for military docs over the majority of civilian hospital positions. Unless, that is, if you live in post-Katrina New Orleans or are with 'Doctors without Borders.' Then I'd say you have a leg up on the military for ID.

Floater268 said:

Thats some harsh stuff. Funny, but harsh. To be devils advocate, some specialties like infectious disease hold a serious bonus for military docs over the majority of civilian hospital positions. Unless, that is, if you live in post-Katrina New Orleans or are with 'Doctors without Borders.' Then I'd say you have a leg up on the military for ID.

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Are you speaking as a military ID specialist or as a speculating med student?

I disagree. I think military ID docs see less HIV than civilians and are no more likely to see "exotic" or "tropical" diseases than anyone else EXCEPT when deployed. And those guys don't deploy much and when they do they don't like it.