This has nothing to do with secondary applications if you are already IN medical school, a resident, or a physician. This is to get ideas of what those IN the profession feel. Students want a voice, this is part of your chance in hoping for change. What matters to you most?
Some points that are brought up are interesting. Usually over in the allopathic forums they do not talk about difficulties in the profession, hence part of the reason why I've started this thread. There wasn't ONE thread where you could just speak your mind on what ARE the issues of osteopathic medicine. Many threads just addressed one issue. That is what I would like to know; What ARE the issues from the mouths of those who feel that there are issues that need to be addressed? So many of them have been brought up, what do you as a student/resident/physician feel are the IMPORTANT ones?
Apparently many students/residents/physicians out there feel an injustice to the profession of some sort, whether it be lack of professional organization support, lack of educational opportunities, or hardships that must be overcomes as an osteopathic physician. Else we wouldn't have so many topics on our forums, correct?
I appreciate your candor and you are right that it will be "us" who end up destroying osteopathic medicine. I was wondering what you thought about the discontent among many residents/physicians then? What do you think about the issues of for-profit schools, joint match, joint board exams, or even issues osteopathic physicians face with say acceptance of CME issues? Should osteopathic medicine evolve or keep the "separate but equal" clause? Are you saying that these are not current issues being debated in the osteopathic profession that should be addressed?
You can't fault the students for having perceptions of the complaints that are obviously out there if discussed with other students, residents, physicians. Such discussions have taken place on this website. So you're telling me that all the discussion amongst students and residents, especially on this board are a moot point, just because they are students? You do not believe that there are any issues out there that are validly being discussed?
There is a reason why I'm asking these questions. Many CURRENT physicians, residents AND students are not happy with how things are being played out. Many would like to see action taken and would like some change. Yet how many of you know how to take action? Better yet, how many of you have TAKEN action?
There are issues out there that do need to be addressed. The reputation of those involved in creating a cohesiveness was waned over the years. One step is helping give people a voice and a means to have their voice heard. Something that is being organized as we speak.
You're right, how can I possibly complain because I haven't personally experienced osteopathic residencies. How silly of me. I don't need to be kicked in the head by a mule to know that its going to suck really bad.
Since you live in the great state of "midwest DO country" you have tons of opportunities. However...
In California, unless you want to go into family medicine, there are only 2 hospitals (arrowhead and riverside) that have osteopathic residency programs in other specialties. They are awesome programs for the 2-3 people that get into them each year. However, having only 1 osteopathic residency program in each of EM, G-surg, Ortho, Neurosurg, Ob/Gyn, anesthesiology, for the entire state of California is ridiculous and even the most die-hard "osteopath" can agree there needs to be some improvement there. And before you say "just move to another state for residency" yeah... not that easy when you have a family and other people's careers to consider.
And lastly, as future doctors I'd say that this *IS* our job. I want to secure a better working environment for myself and colleagues. How is that supposed to occur without discussion and action? If we just "shut up" about our feelings and opinions, nothing will ever get done. Status quo is BS; we should always strive to make our lives and professions better.
Rising cost of tuition
Size of GME
Unbiased assessment of GME
Unbiased assessment of COMLEX
Disclaimer of all pros and cons of a joint match
International acceptance of DO degree
The ones mentioned by JP sound appealing to me as well:
1. Increasing reimbursement for procedures
2. Greater insurance flexibility when ordering diagnostic tests
3. Better support by hospitals for OMT reimbursement and referall
BTW I do not censure calls for action in general, I applaud them rather. Hopefully this movement will amalgamate the needs of all osteopathic students and not only a few.
Actually why not post here? Similar postings have brought residents/physicians interested in the issues. So yes, they plan on branching out but just decided to post here for simplicity since you can't "cross-post" in the forums. They posted it a day or so ago and as stated it was just an "interest poll". And you are absolutely correct that it needs to encompass interns/residents/physicians. Which in due time it will I hope. Right now interns/residents are busy as July is known to be so maybe not as many are lurking right now. But to post in an osteopathic forum to just get an idea works makes sense to me as a starting point.
Students - So I suppose everything that I mentioned in my post is a misperception? No one addressed any of the specifics I mentioned, nor any JayneCobb has mentioned. We can agree to disagree that all students aren't "ignorant" but we can agree on that there needs to be a change. And you are right, there are different focuses in which I've already conceded to that issue in my last post.
And to explain to the person who wanted to know about AOA/ACGME CME issues, as it was explained to me, the AOA will only accept certain CME credits. Some ACGME CME's do not "transfer" over to satisfy their "main" requirements (Category 1, I believe) which has been a pain for some physicians who's main interest is not heavily represented with in the AOA. For instance, a dually board certified Neonatologist who couldn't get her conferences to count as primary requirement. Instead they were requiring her to attend conferences that have nothing to do with her specific profession. Also note, the AOA does not have a Neonatology Fellowship anymore. Similar situation with pathology. But I've heard other physicians also complain in FP and some sub-specialists. The AOA also requires you to pay fees for their organization in order to keep your osteopathic board certificate, something I never knew until a physician told me the other day. The AMA does not have the same requirement. If any of that information is untrue, I ask that someone please correct those statements.
Exactly the types of issues that need to be addressed Not all students have "misperceptions" but many of them do, especially here on SDN. Also of heavy concern, the number of osteopathic residencies with increasing number of graduates which I'm sure is encompassed by the "size of GME". Also, the "For-profit" debate might become an important one. These are all student concerns but they would go far in trying to unify the growing rift in osteopathic medical education that is seemly starting in the residency time period where you have two different tracks, AOA or ACGME. Again, this is just my perception from what others tell me who have been through the process but to me it seems accurate. If its not, then tell me why it is not. We're all here to discuss how things need to change
At some point all change begins with discontent. Revolution begins with mass discontent of the status quo. And people fail to realize that it doesn't take a majority to implement drastic, needed change. The revolutionary war was fought by less than 1% of the American population and support by about a third.
There are several things which we are in dire need of change (IMHO). The quality of the COMLEX questions needs to improve substantially, or be done away with completely and mandate USMLE with a separate OMM test. PE needs some reasonable standards with clearly defined criteria needed to pass, or it needs to be done away with. The archaic CME credits is annoying. Recognition and utilization of Osteopathic Sub-speciality Physicians who train in Allopathic institutions should be a no brainer, why ostracize them and shun them when they can add to our collective improvement?
The For-profit school idea gives me a bad feeling. Honestly, how much will a for-profit school add to the Osteopathic community other than numbers? I have a hard time buying that this school will truly be geared to producing Osteopathic physicians instead of just taking money to produce physicians.
The change of the title from DO to MD is a non-issue for me, and my feelings are voiced in another thread on that topic.
As far as statement about the quality of residencies. There are some very very good residencies in the Osteopathic world. But that being said, we should be doing it better and hold ourselves to a higher standard. We should improve the quality of the weak programs, and expand to various hospitals and forge larger co-ops of hospital associations in order to improve our post-grad education, with the ultimate goal of having enough high quality residencies that there will be little need to go to the allopathic match.
I'm 100% comfortable with the initials after my name. I don't even see the need to change the degree to DO/MD.
What I'm not comfortable with is a bunch of wannabe massage therapists and chiropractors worshipping at the altar of cranial osteopathy, treating a dead guy from Missouri like he's the messiah, and wanting to turn the clock back 100 years. This is medicine, not religion, and the power, wealth and prestige that Osteopaths have accumulated over the years has been directly related to their willingness to practice "allopathic" medicine.
That's something we should be embracing. Instead of debating whether to lower admission standards so that we get more people willing to practice OMT into DO school, we should be asking whether OMT even has a place in the second year curriculum. Instead of screwing around with the COMLEX, everyone should be taking the USMLE.
The AOA should actively seek unity in medicine, and do what is necessary to achieve it - the AMA is quite willing to. That is what will best serve our interests in the future.
These among other issues are the issues that need to be addressed. Whether its petitions, writing campaigns or speaking to committees. Its not until someone speaks up and says, "hey, can we try something else" that anything will work.
We need to unite the osteopathic profession for:
1) solution to two matches which our current students must go through
2) number and quality of residencies
3) CME credits
4) reimbursement lobbying
5) Possibly a joint exam with OMM component
6) more reimbursement for OMT
etc.
And the list could go on and on ... read what I've quoted at items people have mentioned, all things of concern to them. All things we should be lobbying to the AOA
Much of this is done through the AOA but what action is being taken. There have been multiple threads about the current state of medicine in the Gen Res forum.
Some think that its just in the nature of some to gripe. There are issues out there. ALOT of doctors are NOT happy with how things are running in the DO world with AOA organization.
What defines osteopathic medicine? What makes us osteopathic doctors? Those are the questions many students who didn't really want to go through DO school and just wanted to be a physician are asking. Many students leave for ACGME residencies and don't look back.
The AOA is our founding organization and we need to UNIFY this organization. Its a shame to see so many upset about so many issues that fall on deaf ears. Why not take a stab at it?
Every organization is flawed by some degree but we're working to fix those flaws. Day by day. Don't you want a voice? Don't you want to change? Some say, if its not broke, don't fix it. I always get a second opinion because not everyone sees things in the same like.
