I think I made a terrible decision

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Today is Friday. I remember when I liked Fridays. They were good - the end of the week, time to catch up with friends and family and to reconnect with reality.

But this Friday doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because I'm a med student now and there's no such thing as a Friday in med school. The world will go on normally and happy around me and I'm not in it. That, and I have lab tomorrow morning anyway.

I realized the other day how far I've come (down) when I actually told myself, "Next week will be good... We are done at noon everyday, so I will be able to study a ton for the exam!" I officially realized that I was at the point where studying all day, all week, detached from the world, was "good".
I'm in way over my head, working and stressing so much that I've developed a nervous-mf'in-twitch in my eyelid. Great.
I don't really like anything about it. Med school, that is. I left the place and (most importantly) people I love to go across the country to pursue this "dream". I could have done anything, anywhere, and been good at it. I ask myself every day why in the world I decided to come do this here. It's miserable. I'm in debt and have been since I wasted 4 years pursuing a Biology (lol) degree and paying thousands of dollars to apply to medical school. Maybe I felt too invested already after spending all those years and all that money.

But that's okay, because after this year, comes year two, where the material gets more complex and comes at a faster rate. Plus, they throw in the USMLE at the end, another 50K+ of debt and a year of your life.
But that's okay, because after that, comes year three, where the things get about 10 times harder and (somehow) more time consuming (I guess it's possible if you go to the hospital in the middle of the night... regularly). If you liked lectures and exams, that's good, because they'll be (predictably) thrown in. Don't worry, you can study while you work. Don't forget the next year and another 50K, either.
But that's okay, because after that comes year four. The workload eases up a bit, but that's not all! You get to have the honor of paying to take step 2 of the USMLE's (which you will probably have to travel by plane to) and paying to travel the country, interview for residencies, and then pay for your own relocation to wherever the residency directing gods conclude.
But that's okay, because after that comes PGY-1, where you have to start paying back loans. Thankfully, you are working 100 hours a week so that you have $35,000 to pay them back with. Nevermind living expenses or trying to support anyone. You're a doctor, and probably not very enthused about the idea.
But that's okay, because after that come another 2-6 years of residency. If you didn't get enough the first year, come on back for more! More long hours and minimum wage M.D. work await.
But that's okay, because after that you get to take the boards and go out on your own. Nevermind the $250K in debt. You get to pay thousands in malpractice as patients you care for pose a constant threat to try and strike it rich at your expense. It'll continue when citizens and government officials periodically point to you and your salary as the reason healthcare is so expensive (if you're an ER doc, that comes after you spent the last 16 hours working for 37% reimbursement).
But that's okay, because by this point, you're a tired, bald, grey, bitter, strung-out old man (or woman), with an M.D., who wonders how in the hell this system is supposed to produce an altruistic physician.
But that's okay, because one day, your kid will tell you that they are thinking of becoming a doctor when they grow up. And it's at that point you'll pause, stop, think... and gently try to steer them in another direction.

Sorry for the rant.. but this is GOD AWFUL already. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't get any easier, cheaper, or more fun for a long time. By the time I could possibly get anything worthwhile out of it, I'll be middle-aged, spent, and probably poor. I feel guilty when I sleep, stressed when I'm studying, and tired when I think about spending my best years this way.

I'm having serious regret-level second thoughts. I can honestly say that if I went back in time four years, knowing I would get into a good medical school if that is what I chose to do... I'd strongly consider doing something else.

Am I the only one?
 
get out while you can
 
Hang in there. First and second year generally suck, but third year, for all its time-consuming stress, is a helluva lot more fun, and hopefully you'll start to remember why you went into medicine. Unless you're a shoe-in for one of the "ROADS to happiness," hopefully that reason has less to do with a cushy lifestyle with loads of money and free time and more to do with people, science, problem-solving, relieving suffering, etc.

On the other hand, you can always sell-out after getting your MD and work for Big Pharma. 😉
 
MaDe in Cali said:
Hang in there. First and second year generally suck, but third year, for all its time-consuming stress, is a helluva lot more fun, and hopefully you'll start to remember why you went into medicine. Unless you're a shoe-in for one of the "ROADS to happiness," hopefully that reason has less to do with a cushy lifestyle with loads of money and free time and more to do with people, science, problem-solving, relieving suffering, etc.

On the other hand, you can always sell-out after getting your MD and work for Big Pharma. 😉
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Or apply to dental school.

(puts on flame suit)
 
I went into medicine for the intellectual challenge. So far, it hasn't disappointed me. There are a thousand things that I could be doing right now that would pay more money and have less hours but I would hate them. I learn something new every day and enjoy what I am doing.

Medical school was not an endless source of drudgery for me. I loved all of the things that I mastered. Now, I am living my dream and loving it. I can't wait to get up in the morning and I sleep well at night (call nights are the exception).

If you made a mistake, fix it. Life is too short to spend it doing something that you hate or something that your fear.
 
njbmd said:
If you made a mistake, fix it. Life is too short to spend it doing something that you hate or something that your fear.
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True. It's certainly not too late to get out now, and if you see nothing but misery coming, maybe it's a sign to think about doing something else. I've been there in another field and in retrospect wish I jumped ship when I first started having these thoughts. There are people who have happily dropped out of medical school and moved on to better things for them.

Perhaps you should talk to a counselor at your school and try to figure out if these feelings are just rooted in anxiety or if you're really not doing the right thing for you right now.
 
:laugh: Hahaha...sorry, I hate to laugh. But wow, that was basically my inner monologue exactly this time last year. We had a silly game of med school jeopardy the beginning of this year, and one of the answers was, "You used to have it 8-12 times a week first year, but second year it's down to 5-6." Of course one guy had to throw out there, "What is having sex?" but the question was in fact, "How often do you have the feeling you should have done ANYTHING else with your life?" And seriously, so many people are in your boat, it's not even funny. It's the freakin Titanic.

And I'm not going to argue with you. It sucks. You get terribly in debt. You get worked to death. No one on the outside understands, and they all like to talk about how much money you'll be making one day. Ha! After the ten years it takes you to pay back your debt, plus the sizable chunk of your soul, is the 150-700K a year really worth it? Well...that depends. Why are you here? Did you hope to gain prestige and a fat paycheck. Well, sorry chum, that's karma. Shouldn't be so selfish. Or did you genuinely want to make a difference in people's lives? Well...after you finish jumping through all the hoops first and second year and maybe even third year, so I'm told, that feeling comes back. Just take a step back every now and then, and think about why you're really here. And don't get me wrong, there will still be hoops to jump through, because the government is full of b*stards, but you just may find contentment in your life anyway.

ps. If you were in it for the prestige and fat paycheck, I recommend getting out now. Move to Texas, buy a mansion, and bask in the fact that in Texas, when you go bankrupt, they can't take your house away! Sweet! :idea:
 
At this point you are going to go in one of 2 directions: You'll either get into the groove and get used to it or you'll quit. There were 2 people in my class that quit after the first classes.

Trust me it gets easier to get the work done. You'll get much more efficient. You sound like you are in anatomy right now which is no doubt the hardest course 1st year. So school itself will get easier.

It is very easy to miss the forest for the trees. If you put a reason behind why you are learning all this info you will find that you are more driven and much happier.

Life will get much easier.
 
I hear you about how much it can suck sometimes. But one thing you have to remember, the salary we may make may not tell the whole story, but at least we are in a better position to pay back our debt. I have friends who went to expensive private schools, came out with English degrees, and are living at home doing part time work (because they cant find an actual job) with 160K plus interest still sitting on their shoulders, and no hope of making more than ~40K/year anytime in the next 10 years. Medicine sounds more lovely suddenly...

And money issues aside, med school gets harder as time goes on, but it wont feel harder because you are better equipped to handle the rigors through your years. The clinical years are just sexy, and residency can really suck badly but most tend to enjoy it overall. Just remember, it gets better as time goes on...

Definitely re-examine your motivations for being in med school. Its just likely that youre getting cynical and jaded like most in pre-clinicals are. It is possible (in rarer cases) that you're better off leaving school. If you still planon sticking around, hang in there, the first year material is the suckiest of them all (all my classmates agree!)
 
whoops said:
But that's okay, because one day, your kid will tell you that they are thinking of becoming a doctor when they grow up. And it's at that point you'll pause, stop, think... and gently try to steer them in another direction.
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This is hilarious, because this has been my father and I on several occasions. Glad I didn't let him convince me otherwise 😎
 
i've found medical school is like a zit. if you don't think about you're less likely to worry about what it was like when you had a clean face. however this zit lasts for 4 years and might pop at any moment and become very painful and hinder your chance at EVER getting a date!!!



and it's red.



(i'm not quite sure how the color red plays into this simile, but i'm working on it...)
 
I definitely think that you should talk to someone at your school; either a counselor or even the Dean of Students. They can probably give you much better advice.

I'm an M1 also, and like you I feel the work piling on, but I think that you really have to get to the point where you are ok with the fact that you don't know everything that they throw at you. You really shouldnt need to study 24/7; you may have no found the right study method for yourself. If you continue studying in order to Honor every class you might burn yourself. My mindset isn't the pass=md, but more so of "knowing 80% of the material well=a sound and peaceful mind". But honestly, you should seek help, rather than suffering internally. There are probably alot more people who have felt that way before you and currently.
 
Lots of good advice here already, but of course we can't make the decision for you. Time for some serious soul-searching. Only you can figure out the best course of action. It's certainly not too late to drop out and pursue another career. And if what you really want is money and free time (in the long run), I'd learn about starting your own business and/or acquiring assets that produce passive income....
 
Do you have any other strong interests that you think you'd be happy pursuing? Are you disillusioned by any careers in healthcare altogether?
 
Go find the "If you could do it again..." thread in the General Residency forum. It's a good read.

Knowing what I know today, I would not do it again. It's just not worth it, especially if you already have a decent career going for yourself. The sacrifices are too much and the return is not enough to make up for it. Not only regarding debt load, but also time commitment and dealing with medical and nursing staff. Some of the biggest a-holes I've ever met are physicians and nurses. Do you want to wake up at 4 AM in the morning and going home at 7 PM everyday for 7 years? I'm already in too deep and it's probably too late for me to turn back.

When people ask about medicine, I try to steer them toward dentistry instead.
 
Taurus said:
When people ask about medicine, I try to steer them toward dentistry instead.
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Just curious, why dentistry? The schooling is just as tough; you also have to take gross anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, histology, microbiology, etc. etc. On top of those first 2-years worth of classes, you take a lot of practical courses where your grade can be an A or an F depending on your professor's mood that day. Then, once you graduate, you'll probably make around $80k as an associate. Factor in the fact that you'll be $300k in the hole if you go to a private school, and I can see how you'd be just as stressed as a physician.

I think people get caught up in the $150k/36 hours figure, but don't realize this is for people who have been practicing for years and own their own practice. 99% of new grads don't have the financial means to start a practice. I think it's a grass is greener thing.

Not saying it's not an attractive alternative to medicine, but I don't think it should be considered the easier route. It has it's own share of struggles and a**holes as well.
 
whoops said:
But that's okay, because after that come another 2-6 years of residency.
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Actually it's 3-7.

Not including fellowship.
 
Billy Sexcrime said:
Just curious, why dentistry?
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That's a good question.

1) First 2 years suck like med school.
2) Years 3 & 4 are much easier. They work in clinic 8-5. They don't have to wake up at 3 AM to go to the hospital to pre-round on their patients. They don't have to spend overnight at the hospital.
3) They're done after 4 years. Don't have to worry if they will match or not. If you're a med school grad and can't get a residency, the paper that your degree is printed on is as useful as toilet paper.

Most important, the smart dental students do residency. Ortho, endo, peri, etc. Most of them are only 1 year long.

These specialty trained dentists can make 300k for 40 hours of work and low liability. Most dentists don't take Medicare. So they get dollar for dollar. Seems like a pretty sweet lifestyle to me.
 
Billy Sexcrime said:
Just curious, why dentistry? The schooling is just as tough; you also have to take gross anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, histology, microbiology, etc. etc.
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No residencies for general dentists. And for the ones that do decide to specialize, the residencies are not nearly as rough as the MD ones. A physician usually has to deal with more stress just because the job is often dealing with life/death situations...with dentistry, that is very uncommon and will almost never be an issue.
 
Taurus said:
Most important, the smart dental students do residency. Ortho, endo, peri, etc. Most of them are only 1 year long.

These specialty trained dentists can make 300k for 40 hours of work and low liability. Most dentists don't take Medicare. So they get dollar for dollar. Seems like a pretty sweet lifestyle to me.
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Actually, the shortest residencies are generally 3 years (there are a very small amount of 2 year residencies); ortho, endo, perio, etc. Lifestyle is definitely sweet, but these guys are the cream of the crop. Going into dentsitry expecting to get into endo, ortho, or OMFS is like going into medicine expecting to get into plastics, derm, or ent. It's definitely possible, but the odds are not in your favor.

radi0headfan said:
No residencies for general dentists. And for the ones that do decide to specialize, the residencies are not nearly as rough as the MD ones. A physician usually has to deal with more stress just because the job is often dealing with life/death situations...with dentistry, that is very uncommon and will almost never be an issue.
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I believe dentists in NY and California have to do at least a one year General Practice residency. Also, OMFS residencies usually consist of >80 hour work weeks, so that would certainly be as stressful as surgical residencies in medicine.

Don't forget that a decent amount of residencies make YOU PAY THEM. This is what I found the most ridiculous. I believe I read somewhere around here that Orthodontics at Harvard is about $70,000 per year. $300k debt for 4 years of school + $210,000 for your specialty = over half a million in debt. I think that'd add stress, no matter what profession you are in.

With that said, I still agree with you guys. On average, a dentist will live a better lifestyle. Post-graduate training will not be as intense or long. You probably won't have your soul drained from your body. It's a good alternative if you really want to improve people's health, be an autonomous practitioner (at least for one area of the body, which is pretty much what most MD specialists do), and not deal with all the red-tape insurance crap.

Still, I wonder how long until dental insurance becomes more widespred and the party is over for dentists...
 
Gut Shot said:
Actually it's 3-7.

Not including fellowship.
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Actually, he said you are "invited back for 2-6 years," after PGY-1; so he's right.

But you're a resident, so I'm sure you're tired, and couldn't blame you for overlooking that small point.👍
 
hahaha...for some reason i found this really funny...probably because it's late and i've been studying all day. but seriously i think most of us have felt this way at some point. i try to look at the big picture...it may suck studying now, but when you're actually seeing patients and you're responsible for them hopefully it'll be worth it.
 
Hoo hoo! I love it when people say that med school is "fun." Bonus points for saying third year is "fun." What people really mean is that it was interesting and stimulating, and they're able to think about this once they're done with the experience! While you're in the midst of it, the experience is frustrating and extremely, unbelievably stressful. In retrospect, it's kind of cool.

Medical school is the single most punishing endeavor I've ever undertaken. The hours are very long. The work is difficult. And somehow, even though you cerebrally know you are very intelligent, you manage to feel damn stupid every single day. I remember the beginning of my first year, when I would bike home from anatomy lab. It was dark outside, I was hungry, and I basically cried the whole way home. I was so miserable. The misery started about two weeks into med school, endured for about a month in a rather intense way, and then it gradually got better. The remainder of my first two years were never as bad as that one month. Then I hit third year. I started on surgery, and while I'm now very glad I'm done with it, I freely acknowledge that I made a pretty foolish choice. Again, I got through the first week okay, and cried my way through the second and third weeks. Again, it got better. Now, I feel like I can handle it again.

Now, I'm not having the time of my life, but what I'm doing is very interesting, and I do think that I will enjoy a career in medicine. I also freely acknowledge that medical education in the US is horribly broken. There is a lot of hazing, and the environment can be pretty toxic. There is this unspoken rule that no matter what, you're not allowed to voice how you really feel: you're supposed to utter the party line of "it's fun!" or, "it's not so bad!" We're human, and I think if we acted like it more often, this experience would be a lot better.

OP, you are not alone. I'm pretty sure if I looked back, I could pull a very similar rant out of my journal from when I started first year. My advice to you is threefold: one, pretty much all med schools offer free counseling for their students. Try talking to one of them. If nothing else, these people will listen to you and acknowledge that what you're going through sucks, and sometimes, that's helpful. I certainly made use of the counseling services at my school. Two, try to set aside some time for you. If Saturday is getting eaten up by anatomy, take the day off Sunday. Can't afford a whole day off? Set aside an afternoon or evening. Make sure you get a few hours to do what you want to do, because when you're burned-out, studying is anything but productive. I promise, you won't fail anatomy because of it, and you deserve the time. Third, try to tough it out a few more weeks, and see if it doesn't get better. I know a lot of my classmates felt the same as I did early on, and I sure did feel crappy. It got better for us, and I have high hopes for you.

Good luck. 🙂

PS: I also acquired the eye twitch. It, too, got better. 😉
 
We started med school August 9th.

First week in answering the ubiquitous question, "So how hard is med school?" :
Me: "You know how in college you study for finals? Like 8 hours a day for a couple of days before the test until the test? Well, we just do that now every day. "
Brother: Oh wow that sucks. I make money.
Me: Ten years from now I'll have the last laugh.
Bro: Yeah, you do that. Wait, didn;t you say you already feel old?
________________________________________________________
In thhe library, before our first test. A week and a half in:
Girl: You know, after all this studying, I think i'm good with this med school thing already.

She worded it better. But I remember thinking, wow that is exactly how I feel.

___________________________________________________________
Sitting with our microanatomy group (t= 2.5 weeks in):

Groupmember: "You know every day I ask myself at least three times a day, why I am doing this."
Rest of table: <Silence.>

_________________________________
A girl I was talking to. After some general conversation:
Girl: "I broke down and cried last night. I am doing so bad. I never freaked out about just passing before.

We calculate our overall scores.

She is doing better than I am.
 
The only way I am keeping my insanity is knowing how I felt last year after I graduated college and started my first "real adult" job. It was the weirdest feeling. All our lives we're striving to improve our education. In elementary school, we had junior high to look towards. In high school, it was college. In college, it was work. And now, what? The "safe" portion of life was over. No one had anything set for you anymore.

I hated work. The hardest part of my job was waking up in the morning. That sounds great, but it sucks after a month. And repeat for 60 years. I realized why people started settling down. After you get a job, it's like, "Now what?" There's no way I can spend the next 40 years working 40 hours a day to improve the companies' product just a little. No customer will ever realize the difference. And yet to impress your boss you had to expect it was the greatest thing ever.

Medical school, as much it is sucking right now, gives me something grand to strive for. Ask yourself, what else would you be doing? Hanging out with your friends on a friday night is great and all, but most if not all your firneds will leave to do their own thing. And besides, you should be able to save at least 2-3 hours on a Friday and/or Saturday for this task anyway. Remember from our studying, 2-3 hours can be a VERY LONG time.
 
Billy Sexcrime said:
But you're a resident, so I'm sure you're tired, and couldn't blame you for overlooking that small point.👍
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Hmmm, come to think of it, I have been working my balls to the grindstone lately. Thanks for the slack! 👍
 
Gut Shot said:
Hmmm, come to think of it, I have been working my balls to the grindstone lately. Thanks for the slack! 👍
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Haha, my pleasure; glad you didn't misconstrue my post as being sarcastic. Hell, let's end this with one more 👍
 
Oh come on dude, you can study and still go do stuff other than study once in a while. I spent a few hours this evening studying (admittedly still a little sad on a Friday), but then I also went to a friend's place and hung out and drank with a bunch of the 2nd years here. Not that the 2nd years didn't have some horror stories (including how the whole class was basically punished academically for someone spreading the old anatomy exams, which sounded really horrible to be punished for something you had no control over) but still, it seems like you can still have some semblence of a life and manage to honor at least some of your courses.

And seriously dude? At my old job a lot of times I couldn't do anything with my friends Friday night because I had to get up early the next morning to drive into Manhattan to work on Saturday, or I couldn't do something Saturday night because I had to drive in on Sunday. Sure, I know my labor day weekend is going to mostly just be me studying, but learning extra stuff isn't like someone's whipping you to carry some boulder.

For what it's worth, while it's a lot of work so far I think I'll be OK and while I'm studying a lot more than back in college, I think it'll be doable so long as nobody posts old exams on a public drive the faculty has access to and ends up getting our entire class screwed up the butt like the last class. Heh. I think a few people actually ended up getting screwed over pretty bad since there's a decent number of people repeating the entire year (even though you could retake a class during the summer apparently you don't really have classes, you just have to pass the exams studying on your own and it's a one shot deal, so some people opted just to redo). Scary though.

P.S. I did actually meet one person tonight who said med school was fun, but she doesn't go to my med school and anybody who could get into her medical school (not going to be specific but generally it's a top 5 on the research charts) is going to be super ultra mega hyper into it. But still, if you're crazy insane hardcore it might be fun. She even said she found it easier than undergrad...but I'm going to venture a guess that she was probably super hardcore in undergrad so it likely doesn't apply to most people.
 
As I always tell med students/interns, the pain doesn't get any better - it just changes every year.

You'll get used to it. And the more you do what you actually love, the more tolerable the pain becomes.
 
BTW I dunno if you get clinical stuff yet, but I think most people in my class who've started doing stuff with patients have found it pretty cool. Well, it kinda depends on who the doctor you get assigned to is (since apparently some people ended up just shadowing instead of being able to interact...while apparently someone else got all the way to doing rectal exams already...not that I'm jealous of them lol). And I found out today (from 2nd years) the person who's grading my homeworks for my clinicals is a knowledgable and awesome guy so that makes me less worried since the homework grading is fairly subjective so if you get a grader who's hell bent on tearing students apart...well your life is going to be less pleasant.
 
This is why I firmly believe that you have to go into medicine for the right reasons - i.e., FOR YOURSELF. Not just for money, or fame, or power, or position, or to please your parents/friends/siblings/neighbors/classmates/etc.

Because when you're exhausted, beat-down, dead-tired, sleep-deprived, physically run-down and hungry, the only thing that will keep you going at 3 am is - guess what? - self-motivation.

Everything else fades away.
 
Blade28 said:
This is why I firmly believe that you have to go into medicine for the right reasons - i.e., FOR YOURSELF. Not just for money, or fame, or power, or position, or to please your parents/friends/siblings/neighbors/classmates/etc.

Because when you're exhausted, beat-down, dead-tired, sleep-deprived, physically run-down and hungry, the only thing that will keep you going at 3 am is - guess what? - self-motivation.

Everything else fades away.
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I can easily see how physicians become burned out. The money isn't what they thought it would be, the prestige factor gets beaten out of them in residency, and selfishness seeping into their being as they go through medical school and residency makes pleasing parents/friends/etc not so important anymore.

It has to be what you want to do, and you have to want to do it for yourself and nobody else.

That being said, it's amazing the kind of things you can get used to if you do it long enough. After a couple months you'll be studying 8-12 hours a day on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday without even wondering what you're missing out on. Well, on Saturday you might joke to one of your classmates about your mysteriously absent weekends. You'll share a hearty laugh and get back to studying.

Haha. Misery loves company.
 
whoops said:
I'm having serious regret-level second thoughts. I can honestly say that if I went back in time four years, knowing I would get into a good medical school if that is what I chose to do... I'd strongly consider doing something else.

Am I the only one?
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OP: Please answer all of the following for us:

Why did you go to med school? What were the "reasons" for wanting to be a doctor? What did you write in your PS? Did you not believe that stuff, or did you just write what you thought med schools wanted to hear? How did your shadowing and other clinical volunteer stuff go - did you enjoy it - or did you do it just because you were "supposed" to do it?

If you "went back in time 4 years" what would you do differently?
 
Life sucks for millions of people. This has been hashed out before.

Take a couple of hours to phone your closest friends and relatives, and ask them about what their life was like when they were working their hardest. Your mom can tell you stories about days when every kid in the house had the flu and she did too but still had to clean up everyone else's body fluids and go without sleep for days. Grad school folks can tell you about grading thousands of badly written essays and basically doing scut for burnt-out professors who will publish said grad student's research with his name at the top of the author list. My husband spent years pulling 15 hour shifts 6 days a week for a teeny income, because if you want to be a chef, that's what you do. Or, you know, you could have some horrible disease, have lost your home to a predatory lender, or live in the post-Katrina 9th ward.

I agree with the above post: If you are doing this for YOU, because, deep down, this is really what you want on an emotional level, it can be easier. That said, it also helps if you're in a supportive environment, if not because your school is set up that way, then at least because your family tries to comprehend the level of stress you are experiencing, and supports your decision to torture yourself for years.
 
Feel free to PM me. I'm concerned about you & perhaps I can offer you some perspective & support. What part of the country are you going to school in?

This was apparently your first post, so if you are new to SDN, you may not have realized all the angst expressed in forums in even getting into med. school. You are NOT alone. 😍
 
[EDIT]
LifetimeDoc said:
I guess if you want to start a pissing fight about 3rd-4th years knowing everything and that 1st years don't know crap, I guess we could do that. I could also start a pissing fight about old people knowing more than young people who haven't yet experienced life yet as well.

It sounds like you don't hate medicine, but just have the normal gripes about the process. My issue is with those who truly think they have made a mistake going into medicine, and truly hate what they do, and work to undermine other's wishing to pursue medicine.
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If you're trying to offer the counter-perspective to the "I think I made a terrible mistake" thread, you're doing pretty poorly. The great thing about that thread is that he's not saying anything untrue. He's just reflecting disdainfully on a stark reality, probably realized by a sensitive but cynical guy who wasn't prepared for the faults of his field. You may be. Good for you. Your interpretation that he's working to undermine your career goals is ludicrous.

But if you can't admit that 1) the guy posting in that thread is in and is coming from a very different place than yourself and therefore shouldn't be thought of as a threat to your own sense of purpose, and 2) as a newly-minted med student, while you bring a new wave of enthusiasm and passion, it comes with an often naive idealism, then you really don't have a credible perspective. There's nothing more annoying than an M1 who comes off as too prideful to admit the plasticity of his self-conceived sense of virtue.

Does this mean you shouldn't express your passion and enthusiasm? No, and it'll be a huge asset in your medical school education, better than the MCAT score of the idiot who sits in the row behind you overheard still talking about it, better than the premature cynicism and jadedness often adopted by new med students who find this perspective fashionable. Make no mistake - med school for you can and probably will be everything you wanted it to be when you were applying. It still is for many of us who FEEL the same way about medicine that we did coming in, but have learned along the way how many battles there are, some just and some unjust. I'm guessing we're a majority.

At the end of the day, heck, even in the middle of the worst days, deep down in our "gut check" moments we know regardless of what we may look like with our hand knuckle-deep in an elderly man's rectum, we can still feel like the luckiest people in the world, like we did when we got that letter, because we knew that prostates were part of the package. We knew that malpractice was part of the package. We knew what bitter doctors said and we even heard horror stories from trusted sources. You knew that. For some people, after a few weeks, a few months, a few years, it's just not worth it, and frankly, I don't blame them. It's your.....OUR constant responsibility to assess that.

If I were a betting man, I'd say you'll probably be just as happy in 20 years as you are today. I'd like to think the same will apply to me (and as far as passionate and naively enthusiastic med students go, I'm probably nationally ranked). But it's going to fall to those of us who have the stomach and care enough about it to bear the burden of making changes happen in medicine when we see those same problems pushing our colleagues out of the field, whether it's physicians going on strike in Vermont, or shell-shocked M1's.

It's going to be a hell of a ride, but I'm hanging onto my ticket with an iron grip.
 
Thanks for all of your replies.
njbmd said:
If you made a mistake, fix it. Life is too short to spend it doing something that you hate or something that your fear.
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Let me say first that I am not afraid of hating medical school. To some degree, I expected that (albeit nowhere near the level I've seemed to stumble across). What I fear is the lack of a light at the end of the tunnel. When does it get better? Does it get better? If you read the "If you could do it over again" thread on the physician forums, many argue that it does not get better and the decision, in retrospect, was regrettable.
These are among my most productive years. I am afraid of spending them this way and then regretting it. I would have no problem with X years of misery if I could be certain I would ultimately be happy with my decision. Which brings me to&#8230;
OP: Please answer all of the following for us:

Why did you go to med school? What were the "reasons" for wanting to be a doctor? What did you write in your PS? Did you not believe that stuff, or did you just write what you thought med schools wanted to hear? How did your shadowing and other clinical volunteer stuff go - did you enjoy it - or did you do it just because you were "supposed" to do it?

If you "went back in time 4 years" what would you do differently?
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I went to medical school for a lot of reasons. I hear lots of people reply with blanket one-liners like, "I went to med school because I love helping people," or, "I went to med school because of my intellectual curiosity," etc. I can't reply to that question with one line because it's more complicated than that.
I wanted to be a doctor because it is work worth doing. I would become suicidal as a number-punching cubicle monkey. I felt like it would be intellectually stimulating, rewarding, admirable, respected work. I felt like I would be proud to do my work and that maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't seem so much like work.
In my PS, I talked about my reconstructive knee surgery due to a football injury in high school. I was broken down and some doc came and put me back together. That experience stuck with me. I wanted to be able to do that for someone else.

I did a lot of shadowing and volunteer work, and that seemed to reinforce my beliefs. I remember after I did a summer long shadowing experience at a med center in the ortho department, the attending I was with asked me, "So&#8230; do you still want to spend the rest of your life doing this?" I said absolutely, and that I thought he had the coolest job ever. I'll never forget &#8211; he looked at me, smirked, and didn't say anything. I thought that was a strange response to my enthusiasm, but I think I understand more now.

I had someone from my undergrad come interview recently, and he was a typical pre-med. Just like I was. Really excited, thinking the gross lab was cool, thinking med students were hot-shots at the top of the world.. he was full of excitement and enthusiasm for what he thought he was interviewing for. I resisted the urge, but I wanted to tell him that the feeling would be gone so fast his head would spin. Maybe that is what the attending was thinking, in a way.

I also wanted to be a doctor because in searching for a job, I want something that will be able to promote happiness and success for myself and my family. I want a job that will provide financial security and allow me to provide sustainably for my family. I also want to be able to provide for my family in what is really a more important, non-financial way (i.e.: by being there for them). I don't want to be a mystery checkbook dad. That is unacceptable to me.

Part of it was also that I knew I was gifted, and that more was expected of me than ordinary. That's not to be arrogant or anything, but I was resonably certain I could do just about anything. I think that's a gift. My family and friends always expected something more, and I was the same way. I wanted to do something extraordinary. I didn't think I (or anyone else) would find anything less satisfying.

I thought medicine would provide all of this and more, but after looking through aforementioned threads, hearing more and more from M.D.'s, hearing about tired, bitter, strung-out, mystery checkbook dad (and mom) doctors contemplating strikes&#8230; I'm not sure the light at the end of the tunnel is there anymore. I'm not sure it ever was. Maybe it was something that my idealistic, uninvested mind created and envisioned. The problem with our broken system of medical education in this country has a lot to do with the fact that by the time you actually get to practice any medicine at all, to see a patient, to find out what you really signed up for, you are too far into the process and too far in debt to turn around. I have no idea what lies at the end of the tunnel. I don't want to be the beat-up doc that has an honest urge to steer kids in other directions when they choose a career path. In short, I don't know if I'm going to end up regretting or respecting this decision. THAT's what I'm afraid of.

For those of you who want to know where I go to school, I'm going to leave that information out. If you think it's going to save you the misery I'm going through to go to another school, you're probably wrong.

I am also not a first-time poster. I've been on SDN through this whole process. I've experienced the angst and anxiety from organic chemistry, to the MCAT, applications, etc., every step of the way. I would just rather not be identified.
 
I think "this too shall pass". I started a very similar thread about half a year ago and feel very different about things today. It sounds like your frustrated, discouraged, but not necessarily that you "don't like medicine".

Obviously if you really don't like it and want to do something different, get out while you still can. Otherwise, if its just a matter of a temporary frustration, then hold on, it'll get better - and then worse - then better - then worse - and hopefully in the long run, the benefits will outweigh the costs. And its true - we won't really know whether it was worth it or whether we like it until retrospect, but isn't it that way with most things? I say happiness comes from within and so if I can't "find happiness" in my job or my family, etc. it probably has more to do with me than it does with my circumstances.
 
I'd like to thank you for sharing your anxieties and concerns, whoops. Maybe it'll inspire a few pre-meds to really try and take something from shadowing and volunteering experience, instead of just using it as something to get them into med school. Hopefully they will examine what they have glorified in their minds a little closer.
 
Whoops,

I'm an MS1, taking a study break (our first test is Tuesday), and suffering from a cold that comes with a side of throbbing headache. All I want to do is fall asleep on my couch while watching bad daytime television on the one channel I can get without paying for cable...

While in general I am enjoying myself, I definitely have been having moments of mild regret the past few weeks. I wonder if I can keep up with this marathon for an entire year (and then 3 more) without crashing and burning. I wonder why oh why I volunteered to enter expensive training that doesn't allow me a sick weekend to wallow in my misery.

I started my first week studying constantly, and by Saturday I already felt like I was losing my mind. There was NO way I could keep that up and hold on to any ounce of happiness. Then I remembered what I had been told during orientation. My school really focused on balance in your life. 'Haha whatever,' I thought. 'I know how to balance and I don't need someone to explain it to me.' (Then the work started and my life was all about studying.) The older students I met told me that one of the biggest changes from college is that you will NEVER feel as though you have mastered all the material. Just give up on that feeling, because it will not happen. So you can't study every night until you think you learned it all. Set a schedule for yourself, and make sure to include time to relax and have fun. So study after classes until 8 or 9pm, then STOP and watch Grey's Anatomy, go for a run, meet friends for ice cream, or play some computer games...

When I started doing this, things got a lot easier for me emotionally. It's still medical school, and my friends from undergrad will still be going out when I need to study, but I can see that with a little effort, med students can get their work done and still have fun. It sounds like maybe you are studying too much and not allowing yourself any time to breathe. Play around with your schedule a bit and see how you can work in free time to each day. Good luck. I hope things get better for you.


Edit: I just reread your post, and I wanted to add one thing. You said you left the people you love. If you haven't already, get to know your classmates. They're probably pretty awesome people and they will be your support network in the coming years. They will be able to relate to the things you are going through. Plus you can force each other to take a study break and go out Friday night. Don't just think about the people you left, but look at all the new friends you will make. My boyfriend is 9 hours away now and my college friends are scattered from Hawaii to Germany. While I miss them, I am having a good time getting to know my new classmates.
 
Destress. Stop going to class for a few days. There is no medical school in the country where you need to study 10 hours a day to pass.

Once you no longer have the urge to stab yourself in the eye, figure out how much you need to study to get a given grade and how much it's really worth to you. You'll probably find preclinical grades to not be worth the rat race.
 
Granted, I'm less than a month into 2nd year, but so far (and I'm pretty sure this will persist) it's a whole lot more interesting than I thought first year was.

I very rarely found myself getting exciting about a lecture or whatever in 1st year. Now, I actually look forward to learning about GI infections and how to treat them. It's just different and better. Who knows, maybe it's just me.

I'd say hang in there. Remember that the path is not the same as the ultimate career of an attending physician. So, just drudge through it and get on to 2nd year. Then, you'll learn material that you'll actually need for the wards.
 
njbmd said:
I went into medicine for the intellectual challenge. So far, it hasn't disappointed me. There are a thousand things that I could be doing right now that would pay more money and have less hours but I would hate them. I learn something new every day and enjoy what I am doing.

Medical school was not an endless source of drudgery for me. I loved all of the things that I mastered. Now, I am living my dream and loving it. I can't wait to get up in the morning and I sleep well at night (call nights are the exception).

If you made a mistake, fix it. Life is too short to spend it doing something that you hate or something that your fear.
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I too was looking for a challenge. Literally, it was going to be medicine or US Army Special Forces....LOL No kidding. But, ultimately, I wanted the intellectual challenge (more so than physical/mental) as well as what medicine has to offer as a career after "boot" camp (i.e. med school...lol)
 
Really good post, evade. I resonate with your experiences. Perhaps, in a few years, I'll be able to look back as you have with a similar prospective.

I'm only at the beginning of my first year, but it already seems as if I've been studying for about two years now. It is, as you said, painful, stressful, difficult, and often frustrating. I'm pretty much always tired. It is like some kind of boot camp, where you are driven until you can't go any more. In short, medical school, for the most part, is no fun at all. However, when we address some of the clinical aspects of medicine in class, my weary eyes and ears perk up, and I remember why I'm here.

Hang in there, OP. Take evade's advice to make some time for yourself. I'm definitely going to. 👍

evade said:
Hoo hoo! I love it when people say that med school is "fun." Bonus points for saying third year is "fun." What people really mean is that it was interesting and stimulating, and they're able to think about this once they're done with the experience! While you're in the midst of it, the experience is frustrating and extremely, unbelievably stressful. In retrospect, it's kind of cool.

Medical school is the single most punishing endeavor I've ever undertaken. The hours are very long. The work is difficult. And somehow, even though you cerebrally know you are very intelligent, you manage to feel damn stupid every single day. I remember the beginning of my first year, when I would bike home from anatomy lab. It was dark outside, I was hungry, and I basically cried the whole way home. I was so miserable. The misery started about two weeks into med school, endured for about a month in a rather intense way, and then it gradually got better. The remainder of my first two years were never as bad as that one month. Then I hit third year. I started on surgery, and while I'm now very glad I'm done with it, I freely acknowledge that I made a pretty foolish choice. Again, I got through the first week okay, and cried my way through the second and third weeks. Again, it got better. Now, I feel like I can handle it again.

Now, I'm not having the time of my life, but what I'm doing is very interesting, and I do think that I will enjoy a career in medicine. I also freely acknowledge that medical education in the US is horribly broken. There is a lot of hazing, and the environment can be pretty toxic. There is this unspoken rule that no matter what, you're not allowed to voice how you really feel: you're supposed to utter the party line of "it's fun!" or, "it's not so bad!" We're human, and I think if we acted like it more often, this experience would be a lot better.

OP, you are not alone. I'm pretty sure if I looked back, I could pull a very similar rant out of my journal from when I started first year. My advice to you is threefold: one, pretty much all med schools offer free counseling for their students. Try talking to one of them. If nothing else, these people will listen to you and acknowledge that what you're going through sucks, and sometimes, that's helpful. I certainly made use of the counseling services at my school. Two, try to set aside some time for you. If Saturday is getting eaten up by anatomy, take the day off Sunday. Can't afford a whole day off? Set aside an afternoon or evening. Make sure you get a few hours to do what you want to do, because when you're burned-out, studying is anything but productive. I promise, you won't fail anatomy because of it, and you deserve the time. Third, try to tough it out a few more weeks, and see if it doesn't get better. I know a lot of my classmates felt the same as I did early on, and I sure did feel crappy. It got better for us, and I have high hopes for you.

Good luck. 🙂

PS: I also acquired the eye twitch. It, too, got better. 😉
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dilated said:
Destress. Stop going to class for a few days. There is no medical school in the country where you need to study 10 hours a day to pass.

Once you no longer have the urge to stab yourself in the eye, figure out how much you need to study to get a given grade and how much it's really worth to you. You'll probably find preclinical grades to not be worth the rat race.
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I'd tend to agree. If this IS the case, perhaps one isn't studying correctly or most efficiently. Maybe get into a group study and see how others do things. Or, simply modify how you are currently doing things.
 
evade said:
I also freely acknowledge that medical education in the US is horribly broken. There is a lot of hazing, and the environment can be pretty toxic. There is this unspoken rule that no matter what, you're not allowed to voice how you really feel: you're supposed to utter the party line of "it's fun!" or, "it's not so bad!" We're human, and I think if we acted like it more often, this experience would be a lot better.
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Couldn't agree more. 👍
 
whoops said:
Let me say first that I am not afraid of hating medical school. To some degree, I expected that (albeit nowhere near the level I've seemed to stumble across). What I fear is the lack of a light at the end of the tunnel. When does it get better? Does it get better? If you read the "If you could do it over again" thread on the physician forums, many argue that it does not get better and the decision, in retrospect, was regrettable.
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Well, some do say that it does get better too. But besides that, it's more like whether you'd mind if it never does get better.

Anyways, if you truly think it's regrettable get out now before you owe any more money, I mean it's only first semester and you might still be able to get a pro-rated refund, and even without a pro-rated refund it's only 1 semester of tuition. Otherwise just find some way to force yourself to enjoy it, lol.
 
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