What is the BEST DO School?

belichek said:

I know bradenton has the highest pass rate for the Comlex.

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Really? hhhm, might want to see what OSU-COM students have to say about that? How about AZCOM?

Supposedly, last year, Bradenton had the highest COMLEX pass rates. They attribute it to PBL.

Interestingly enough, they use PBL at UTMB-Galveston here in TX, and while they are hardly the most highly-regarded TX school, they are scoring the best on USMLE.

Students from there rotate at my hospital where I volunteer, and I also know a lot of residents from there. They all love it.

how do u like them apples now Diver doc?

belichek said:

how do u like them apples now Diver doc?

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He probably thinks it's fine ...

Remember that Bradenton is a very new school, it's difficult to compare the pass rates to schools that have been around for 30+ years. I have heard wonderful things about Bradenton though, and will be applying there when that time comes. It seems that PBL works, and it will be interesting to see if schools start to offer more of it in the future!!!

belichek said:

I know bradenton has the highest pass rate for the Comlex.

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TCOM last year had a pass rate of over 99% on the COMLEX.... it does not get much higher than that! Unless LECOM-Bradenton had a 100% pass rate, it was not in sole possession of first place for pass rate. Although I do agree that COMLEX pass rate must be an important consideration when choosing a medical school things like specialty placement, % of grads who become chief residents, location, and even the US News and World report ratings are considered by applicants and the population as a whole when measuring up a medical school. OSU, MSU, TCOM, and WVCOM all rank within the top 50 primary care medical school in the country. Despite the focus on primary care at these schools they still place a large number of graduates in highly competitive specialty residencies. TCOM also has a substantial level of research going on with many research center affiliated with the campus including the Osteopathic Research Center. The amount of research happening at TCOM far surpasses most osteopathic medical schools although I hear MSUCOM has a substantial research program as well. I feel like TCOM is the best osteopathic medical school in the country but that is my own bais opinion based on personal values. Each school has unique aspects that may make it a favorite for someone!

TCOM is fantastic, but it isn't necessarily the best. If you want to do research, then you should pick the school with the most resources for researching what you're interested in. Otherwise, the best school in the country is the one that will put you in the best position to place you in the residency you want, and this will be different for everybody. Rotation sites, board prep, and so-on should all be considered.

I don't think you can go wrong with TCOM, but there may be somewhere better for some people.

99% ... very impressive.

We just had a small meeting this morning and were told that all but 2 students in our class of '09 passed COMLEX step the 1st time, those 2 students passed when they took it the 2nd time so it's now at 100%. And supposedly they had one of the highest overall averages among DO schools in the country. Our class of '08 didn't do as well, but after some tweaks to the curriculum and to how they do board review the '09 class did extremely well.

Well, I read somewhere on SDN from a current student I believe at OSU that they had every single student (100%) pass rate last year. And yes, I do like apples.

UNTHSC does have a ton of research going on all the time. It is a great school but Texas is right, it's not for everyone. I knew it wasn't for me which is why I didn't apply.

There are two pass rates as someone eluded to. Some schools won't quote you the "first-time" pass rate. The first-time pass rate at Bradenton was 98.7% (153 of 155) and the overall pass rate which was 100%. But, there is also the average score and Bradenton rocked on average as well.

scpod said:

The discussion of the best DO schools has been going on since SDN began. Let me refer you to a thread from 1998:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=22727

The major point was valid then and is just as valid today. You can look up all the "lists" of the top schools you want to, but all you are getting is someone else's biased opinion on who THEY think is the best. Develop your own criteria and do a little research. By research I don't mean looking up a bunch of other people's lists.

It's fun to debate the merits of one school over another sometimes, but in reality it would be incredibly dumb to choose a school based on someone else's list. Most of the people who make up these lists don't know jack about 95% of the schools. They've never been to them, never talked to anyone who has been to them, and never even looked up their internet websites in most cases. The criteria that they do use is based on hearsay and propoganda that has been passed down for years.

Determine the things that are most important to you and come up with a list of schools that fall into those parameters. Then, do some hard research and visit the school. Interview there and examine the people and facilities for yourself. So many people come out of the interview season with a totallly different look at things than when they first started. Often, your first choice goes way down on your list and a last place choice might just turn up to be your favorite. For goodness sakes, you are contemplating going $200,000+ in debt and spending four years of your life learning medicine at one of these schools. Forget about those lists that someone makes up of the top of their head and do some research on your own.

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TexasTriathlete said:

Supposedly, last year, Bradenton had the highest COMLEX pass rates. They attribute it to PBL.

Interestingly enough, they use PBL at UTMB-Galveston here in TX, and while they are hardly the most highly-regarded TX school, they are scoring the best on USMLE.

Students from there rotate at my hospital where I volunteer, and I also know a lot of residents from there. They all love it.

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Isn't Harvard PBL?

Onstarr said:

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I
that . Great post scspod. too bad it will never hit home for 95% of SDN pre-meds.

I don't know if Harvard is PBL or not, but I was just talking about TX schools, because that's mostly what I know about.

The training. The intangibles of the Harvard name. The alumni community.

Those are a few good starts.

TexasTriathlete said:

So exactly what benefits would a harvard grad have over a howard grad as a primary care physician? Aside from the fact that the harvard grad is probably not in danger of getting a DWB.

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Highest pass rate or highest average?

belichek said:

I know bradenton has the highest pass rate for the Comlex.

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Rvu

EEL08 said:

UNTHSC does have a ton of research going on all the time. It is a great school but Texas is right, it's not for everyone. I knew it wasn't for me which is why I didn't apply.

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I agree that not everyone is made for a particular school, I've been hearing a lot lately about how TCOM is not the place to be. I have no idea what that means in the least. "I've heard everything from that to practicing osteopathy in Texas is not for me" which also doesnt make sense since texas is like top 3 in the number of practicing DOs. On paper the school is amazing, and at the interview the facilities, students, professors all loved what they were doing and were all the while being pushed. Just wondering if people had any justifiable reasoning as to why not go to TCOM.

hookem said:

I agree that not everyone is made for a particular school, I've been hearing a lot lately about how TCOM is not the place to be. I have no idea what that means in the least. "I've heard everything from that to practicing osteopathy in Texas is not for me" which also doesnt make sense since texas is like top 3 in the number of practicing DOs. On paper the school is amazing, and at the interview the facilities, students, professors all loved what they were doing and were all the while being pushed. Just wondering if people had any justifiable reasoning as to why not go to TCOM.

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I don't have any justifiable reasons for why other people shouldn't go to TCOM, just reasons why I don't want to go there. Not many of those reasons have to do with TCOM itself. I'm not sure why people would generalize that TCOM is not the place to be because it is a great school with a lot of opportunities.

i would love to go to tcom if only they would favor out of state residents as well but i heard all of their matriculants are in states so i lost my desire.

DocInProgress said:

....i heard all of their matriculants are in states so i lost my desire.

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Not all....but more than 90% are in-state.

scpod said:

Not all....but more than 90% are in-state.

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well, u know how umdnj-som has 99% in states mainly because the school allows most of their students to obtain nj residency easily; does the same apply to tcom? is it really easy to obtain texan residency and as a result, this is why there are more than 90% in states?

No, probably not. There are a huge number of premeds with good credentials in TX, along with a physician shortage. The TX schools are in the business of training physicians who are likely to stay in TX.

DocInProgress said:

well, u know how umdnj-som has 99% in states mainly because the school allows most of their students to obtain nj residency easily; does the same apply to tcom? is it really easy to obtain texan residency and as a result, this is why there are more than 90% in states?

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No it doesn't work the same way for TCOM. They have to accept at least 90% in-state so this is way before matriculation.

DocInProgress said:

i would love to go to tcom if only they would favor out of state residents as well but i heard all of their matriculants are in states so i lost my desire.

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Dont dismiss TCOM as a possibility if you are out of state.... I got in and am from out of state! Getting residency in Texas is definitely not as easy as New Jersey, there is only three ways to really get it as an out of stater - 1. defer a year and work, 2. if you have a spouse who is working you can base your residency claim off him/her after one year living in the state, or 3. Marry a Texan resident and wait one year. I dont know who is saying that TCOM is not the place to be unless you do not want to be at one of the top DO schools. TCOM is growing rapidly and will only get better in the coming years. There is two main reasons I could see someone not wanting to come here, 1. they dont like the area or 2. they are scared off by the large number of primary care matches that TCOM has historically had. TCOM definitely focuses greatly on primary care but this does not mean you cannot specialize but might not be for someone who is looking into neurosurgery , although you could do it at TCOM!

Yeah, don't dismiss TCOM just because its of residency issues. I got in, and I'm OOS...from PA which is definately far away. I think applying early helped, but as long as you show that you're determined and like Texas (texas people LOVE texas) then you should be ok!

djtiesto14 said:

I was wondering what the best DO school is in the nation.
I know that Harvard, UCSF etc...are the best MD...

What's are the best DO's?

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Harvard is the best MD based on research. Is your question which is the best DO school for research?

You can't just choose "best" without a rationale to rank them.

The schools with the best reputation based on consistent national ranking in the US News is Michigan State, Oklahoma State, and Texas. That is if you care to believe the methodology of these rankings.

DiverDoc said:

Well, I read somewhere on SDN from a current student I believe at OSU that they had every single student (100%) pass rate last year. And yes, I do like apples.

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I'm not sure how pass rate is related to how good a school is. Everyone in a class can do borderline and all pass. Does that make it better than a school where every single student expect one scored extremely high, but that one person failed due to illness? That school wouldn't have a 100% pass rate, but their students did better, overall.

Harvard isn't ranked high because of their board scores anyway---it's because of their research.

PatriotsForever said:

Dont dismiss TCOM as a possibility if you are out of state.... I got in and am from out of state! Getting residency in Texas is definitely not as easy as New Jersey, there is only three ways to really get it as an out of stater - 1. defer a year and work, 2. if you have a spouse who is working you can base your residency claim off him/her after one year living in the state, or 3. Marry a Texan resident and wait one year. I dont know who is saying that TCOM is not the place to be unless you do not want to be at one of the top DO schools. TCOM is growing rapidly and will only get better in the coming years. There is two main reasons I could see someone not wanting to come here, 1. they dont like the area or 2. they are scared off by the large number of primary care matches that TCOM has historically had. TCOM definitely focuses greatly on primary care but this does not mean you cannot specialize but might not be for someone who is looking into neurosurgery , although you could do it at TCOM!

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TCOM is as competitive as the MD schools in Texas because of the way the application process works. The deck is stacked against you if you are from out of state. Clearly the students who were accepted were exceptions.

well i mean as a suggestion if you are really that determined to make a list of school ranking; it could be better to separate the schools based on geographic regions like northeast, south east, Midwest, pacific and have a ranking within each geographic region. this kinda help limits the bias

yea that would really help me out a lot. I'm from California and would like to stay somewhere near the West Coast. How would you guys rank the schools near the westcoast? (I would think Western or AZCOM would be the top?)

GaryPham said:

yea that would really help me out a lot. I'm from California and would like to stay somewhere near the West Coast. How would you guys rank the schools near the westcoast? (I would think Western or AZCOM would be the top?)

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DO schools in the West:

Western
Touro-MI
AZCOM
AT Still -Mesa
Pacific Northwestern ...

Kinda near:
Touro-NV (on a good day it's about a 4 hour drive to Henderson from LA)

In my own opinion as far as ranking those: Western, AZCOM (honestly they are probably about equal, both great schools and a lot of people would probably put AZCOM above Western ... but I just personally like Western), Touro-MI, Touro-NV (fairly new - but should be an awesome school), AT Mesa (brand new), Pacific Northwestern ... brand spanking new.

hope this helps a bit

NeuroDocDO said:

Top 7

1. MSUCOM
2. TCOM
3. PCOM
4. CCOM
5. UMDNJ
6. OSUCOM
7. OUCOM

Next Tier


8. DMUCOM
9. KCUMB
10. ATSU-KCOM
11. AZCOM
12. UNECOM
13. NYCOM
14. Western Univ COM of Pacific

Next Tier

15. West Virginia
16. NSU-COM
17. Touro-CA
18. LECOM-Erie
19. Pikeville COM
20. Virginia COM
21. LECOM-Bradenton

Bottom Tier

22. Touro-Nevada
23. Touro-New York
24. PCOM-Georgia
25. ATSU-Mesa in Arizona
26. LMU-Debusk COM
27. PNWUHS-Yakima
28. Rocky Vista University COM

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I'd bump your 8,9,10 up to top 7 and move your 5,6, and 7 down one tier. I'd also put little stars next to TCOM and MSUCOM and OSUCOM (I think) to indicate the strong preference for in state students. Just my opinion of course.

IgE said:

I'd bump your 8,9,10 up to top 7 and move your 5,6, and 7 down one tier. I'd also put little stars next to TCOM and MSUCOM and OSUCOM (I think) to indicate the strong preference for in state students. Just my opinion of course.

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What is this list based on? Match list, pass rate, COMLEX scores? If it's top tier, wouldn't more applicants want to go there, thereby the school becoming more selective? What I don't understand is how UMDNJ-SOM or AZCOM, which have much higher matriculant averages (GPA,MCAT) than some of the schools that people consider "top tier", is mentioned lower than the "top tiers". I'm asuming that the tiers are made post-acceptance and based on board pass rates, COMLEX scores, match list, etc.; am I correct?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these lists are based on nothing that can be quantified. That is, just gut feeling, and the poster's perception of the reputation of the schools.

DocInProgress said:

What is this list based on? Match list, pass rate, COMLEX scores? If it's top tier, wouldn't more applicants want to go there, thereby the school becoming more selective? What I don't understand is how UMDNJ-SOM or AZCOM, which have much higher matriculant averages (GPA,MCAT) than some of the schools that people consider "top tier", is mentioned lower than the "top tiers". I'm asuming that the tiers are made post-acceptance and based on board pass rates, COMLEX scores, match list, etc.; am I correct?

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This list, like every other list of the best DO school, is based on nothing more than personal opinion (not that the list is that bad, I like the idea of tiers rather than actual 1-20 rankings). Even if you took matriculant avgs into consideration, they will have little to do with the outcome, because this pretty much means nothing after day 1 class 1. Pass rates for comlex isn't great either because you could wind up with a situation of an entire small class of low-passes on the boards and that really isn't that great. Even if US news and world came out with a DO list people would still complain, just as they do with the MD list that comes out every year. Just consider important things like quality/set up of rotations, USMLE/COMLEX averages (not pass rates) and possibly the length of time the school has been open (never hurts to have alumni connections) and if you want, the number of people that go into the field you want. Since you can't quaitify some of this, you really can't make a real list.

DocInProgress said:

What is this list based on? Match list, pass rate, COMLEX scores? If it's top tier, wouldn't more applicants want to go there, thereby the school becoming more selective? What I don't understand is how UMDNJ-SOM or AZCOM, which have much higher matriculant averages (GPA,MCAT) than some of the schools that people consider "top tier", is mentioned lower than the "top tiers". I'm asuming that the tiers are made post-acceptance and based on board pass rates, COMLEX scores, match list, etc.; am I correct?

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I bet the poster has been to 5 or 6 of those schools tops. These lists are almost completely arbitrary. But some applicant will base all their decisions on it for sure.

Kuba said:

some applicant will base all their decisions on it for sure.

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Haha, indeed, the saddest part of these theads.

#1 - My School (Or your school if you wish)
#2 - #28 Everything else

jp104 said:

#1 - My School (Or your school if you wish)
#2 - #28 Everything else

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Haha, yea..people say the number one school is my school but I want to change it to...

Pre-interviews
1. My number one choice
28. every other school

Post interviews
1.Current School
28. Former "my number one choice" that rejected me

DocInProgress said:

What is this list based on? Match list, pass rate, COMLEX scores? If it's top tier, wouldn't more applicants want to go there, thereby the school becoming more selective? What I don't understand is how UMDNJ-SOM or AZCOM, which have much higher matriculant averages (GPA,MCAT) than some of the schools that people consider "top tier", is mentioned lower than the "top tiers". I'm asuming that the tiers are made post-acceptance and based on board pass rates, COMLEX scores, match list, etc.; am I correct?

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I don't know how the first poster estimated tiers. I went by the little info I know about matching and board scores and my personal perception of the program offered by each school. Of course, back when I was applying to medical school, I didn't even research or apply to schools that were geographically unappealing to me. Arizona? NJ? No thank you. There are so many other factors that go into the where do I go to school decision making process that you can't really assume that the best schools will always get the best applicants. Some may really be doomed by their location. Kirksville... Erie... Pikeville... Lewisburg? Nice places to live for a couple of years? Eh. I wish it were possible to see comlex/usmle averages per school instead of every school's claim that they pass 99-100%. Honestly, I don't care where my school fits on anyone's list. What matters is that I fit here.

What is this obsession with the "Best" DO school? It seems like childish pre-med garbage to waste time arbitrarily ranking medical schools to me.

sexyman said:

What is this obsession with the "Best" DO school? It seems like childish pre-med garbage to waste time arbitrarily ranking medical schools to me.

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It's for all the MD wannabes whose egos took a hit when they realized that they aren't good enough for the allopathic world so in order to keep their fragile egos intact they want to go to the "best" DO school.

I was thinking the same thing actually.

IgE said:

I don't know how the first poster estimated tiers. I went by the little info I know about matching and board scores and my personal perception of the program offered by each school. Of course, back when I was applying to medical school, I didn't even research or apply to schools that were geographically unappealing to me. Arizona? NJ? No thank you. There are so many other factors that go into the where do I go to school decision making process that you can't really assume that the best schools will always get the best applicants. Some may really be doomed by their location. Kirksville... Erie... Pikeville... Lewisburg? Nice places to live for a couple of years? Eh. I wish it were possible to see comlex/usmle averages per school instead of every school's claim that they pass 99-100%. Honestly, I don't care where my school fits on anyone's list. What matters is that I fit here.

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A little cliche, but I totally agree.

If you spend some time looking at the Interview Feedback portion of this site, you'll find that most schools have reviews and ratings (on a scale of 1-10) for the last 5-10 years. The ratings are on Quality, Culture, and Location. Each school has a different number of people who actually replied and gave rankings, but it's usually >100 responses. That's a pretty good sample size with which to do this comparison.

You can sort the list of D.O. schools by either of the 3 criteria: Quality, Culture, or Location. But I wanted to see the list of schools taking ALL THREE criteria into account. So I did some very simple math and set up a table using Excel, and I received the results below.

So for those of you out there who have no idea where to begin, or for those of you who want to see what students thought of the quality, location, and culture of a school while they were on their interview, this is the list for you.

So as far as picking the "best" DO school, maybe this list, which represents the averages of 100+ responses, is more valid than a single person giving his/her opinion.

I list the school along with the average ranking, out of 10, in the 3 categories.

PCOM-Philadelphia 8.70
PCOM - Atlanta 8.49
TCOM 8.48
OSU 8.44
Nova Southeastern 8.39
CCOM 8.34
MSU 8.33
Touro - NY 8.25
Edward Via Virginia 8.08
Touro - Las Vegas 7.83
AZCOM 7.79
New England COM 7.72
Ohio Univ 7.71
Lake Erie - Bradenton 7.63
DMU 7.59
UMDNJ 7.53
NY COM 7.46
LMU DeBusk 7.83
AT Still - Mesa 7.05
Kansas City Univ 7.01
West Virginia 6.81
Lake Erie - Erie 6.47
Touro - Mare Island 6.43
AT Still - Kirksvile 6.33
Western Univ of the Pacific 6.24
Pikeville 5.71


**Keep in mind that these ratings take into account QUALITY, LOCATION, and CULTURE in equal weights. So don't act surprised when a school like LMU-DeBusk (known for its high quality education) is ranked so low (students don't seem to like its location).

That list is a little odd, because typically, these "best DO school in the country" discussions have KCOM at the very top of any list. Your list has them 3rd from the bottom.

Western COMP is another one that is always right there in the mix for the top spot, and it is next to last.

PCOM-GA has been around for about 2 seconds, and while I have no doubt that the PCOM folks will turn that place into a top-flight school, I think they haven't even had a residency match yet. There is no way to justify putting them at #2.

*sigh* I wish I had that sort of time!! Good job on the data collection though.

I find some of the interview feedback comments funny. Was looking at a comment made on a negative feedback about LECOM-Bradenton that said we didn't have any books in our library......

hmmmm.... I guess those things I was staring at today were just holograms.

Holograms are awesome.

Whipping out the ol'lunchbox Tex?