Ohio College of Podiatric Medicine

Obnoxious Dad said:

Why is there so little discussion of OCPM. I realize that Cleveland isn't anybody's idea of a honeymoon destination, but the lack of discussion about OCPM is curious. What is the deal here?

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i think it was easy for people to talk **** when we were in an old building, etc, but our new place is really something (compared to the old), and we are just rollin' along! i really enjoy school here, and despite the fact that it is cleveland, have actually had a very enjoyable experience thus far. things are really subjective--i personally don't care that a descent percentage of our staff is adjunct as opposed to full time faculty. i feel like our lower is second to NONE, and that i am well prepared. i will also add that is work very hard for this, making true the statement that options are attainable at any institution. please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Obnoxious Dad said:

Why is there so little discussion of OCPM. I realize that Cleveland isn't anybody's idea of a honeymoon destination, but the lack of discussion about OCPM is curious. What is the deal here?

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maybe they're too busy studying... or partying...

Here are the negatives in my opinion:

1) Lack of integration/affiliation with a larger institution
2) It's in Cleveland
3) Old facilities (this has now been resolved)

Not saying I think it's a bad school, just pointing out the cons.

Cleveland Rocks

LB4Life said:

Here are the negatives in my opinion:

1) Lack of integration/affiliation with a larger institution
2) It's in Cleveland
3) Old facilities (this has now been resolved)

Not saying I think it's a bad school, just pointing out the cons.

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I think lack of full-time faculty is a big downside. Narkotics dismissed it as a non-issue above, but don't you think students deserve accessible and dedicated faculty for the kind of tuition they pay in professional school? I would. That's a hard thing to accomplish when most of the faculty have OCPM just as their second part-time teaching job. The issues with old tests, cheating, etc are pretty well documented if you search the forums.

The clinical faculty might be a bit better, but I was not overly impressed with the sections I've read in Principles and Practice of Podiatric Medicine (2006), which was largely written by OCPM faculty. It kinda felt like I was reading "old school podiatry 101" at times. I could be wrong, but I don't think dean Hethrington's other book on HAV was very well received among peers in the profession either.

Also, their board pass rate is unknown. OCPM accepts a ton of students now, and it might not be very good. This past July pt1, AZPod had 100%, I believe DMU and Scholl had ninety-something %, Barry had 78%. The national average was 83%. If you do the math, the rates for OCPM and the other three schools with unknown rate have to be pretty bad for some. I had a bit of a laugh (and amazement someone like this will get the same degree I will) when I read the 2001 book review here...
http://www.amazon.com/Crashing-Boar...start=1&qid=1193759147&sr=1-1#customerReviews

Like LB4, I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad program or that there's not many good students there, but you have to consider what's best for the students. If you like to learn from and consult your professors, you might be dissatisfied.

I'm glad this was brought up because I am interviewing at Ohio in December and really haven't heard much about the program? Are the new facilities brand new or did they just move locations and keep all the old equipment and that sort of stuff? Also, I understand the rankings here on SDN don't mean anything and they are just individual person's opinions, but Ohio was usually ranked in the middle and from what people are saying, it sound like thats not true. Maybe more Ohio students can chime in and let us know what they think of their program.

So Temple, NYU, and Ohio don't share their pt1 board scores? Thats interesting. I'm interviewing at Temple and NYU soon, will they not tell me if I ask during the interview?

podoc123 said:

I'm glad this was brought up because I am interviewing at Ohio in December and really haven't heard much about the program? Are the new facilities brand new or did they just move locations and keep all the old equipment and that sort of stuff? Also, I understand the rankings here on SDN don't mean anything and they are just individual person's opinions, but Ohio was usually ranked in the middle and from what people are saying, it sound like thats not true. Maybe more Ohio students can chime in and let us know what they think of their program.

So Temple, NYU, and Ohio don't share their pt1 board scores? Thats interesting. I'm interviewing at Temple and NYU soon, will they not tell me if I ask during the interview?

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I'm not really sure which schools share their board scores. They might tell you they have a "100% pt1 national board passage," but that just means by graduation. A lot of schools use that figure, and it's misleading. Maybe some students had to take it multiple times (fairly significant at $900 a pop plus having to divert your energy from classes/clinic to re-study), or maybe the school just ended up flunking out students who didn't pass.

The question you want to ask is:
"What percentage of students who took pt1 in July last year passed?"
I doubt you'd get a straight answer from most schools, but that's the best and most direct way to ask.

Feli said:

I think lack of full-time faculty is a big downside. Narkotics dismissed it as a non-issue above, but don't you think students deserve accessible and dedicated faculty for the kind of tuition they pay in professional school? I would. That's a hard thing to accomplish when most of the faculty have OCPM just as their second part-time teaching job. The issues with old tests, cheating, etc are pretty well documented if you search the forums.

The clinical faculty might be a bit better, but I was not overly impressed with the sections I've read in Principles and Practice of Podiatric Medicine (2006), which was largely written by OCPM faculty. It kinda felt like I was reading "old school podiatry 101" at times. I could be wrong, but I don't think dean Hethrington's other book on HAV was very well received among peers in the profession either.

Also, their board pass rate is unknown. OCPM accepts a ton of students now, and it might not be very good. This past July pt1, AZPod had 100%, I believe DMU and Scholl had ninety-something %, Barry had 78%. The national average was 83%. If you do the math, the rates for OCPM and the other three schools with unknown rate have to be pretty bad for some. I had a bit of a laugh (and amazement someone like this will get the same degree I will) when I read the 2001 book review here...
http://www.amazon.com/Crashing-Boar...start=1&qid=1193759147&sr=1-1#customerReviews

Like LB4, I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad program or that there's not many good students there, but you have to consider what's best for the students. If you like to learn from and consult your professors, you might be dissatisfied.

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feli is a theorist. the points he makes are good and appreciable, but not always important all of the time. example: dr. landers teaches anatomy here and at case dental. his notes were great and quite honestly, i didn't need to have constant access to him. it depends more on you. if you are able to study and stay on top of things, you don't need the face time with the professors. what about email and telephone?? all of our teachers start out by giving us 3 contact numbers and an emali address, and are very good about returning messages/calls. i met with our biochem teacher outside of class a few times (he also teaches at the dental school) and things went well. it depends on you.
our facilities are beautiful. cleveland blows compared to a big city in southern california, but there is definately stuff to do. i would come here again, given the choice.
if location is an issue, consider alternatives: miami is expensive, as is san fran, chicago, and new york. des moines is significantly more boring than cleveland--i promise! and phili is a ****t hole, no offense.
it has been said over and over: the best thing to do is interview at a hand full of programs, and schoose the one that works best for you.
it is no surprise that azpod has such high pass rates--look at the stats of incoming students. my opinion is that they only accept a small number of very well qualified individual as to gain accredidation. at the end of the day, the institutions are a business as much as they are a school, and the bottom line needs to balance.

Pod doc:

Just so you know, It's new york college of podiatric medicine not NYU. I understand they get their faculty from some local med schools ( ie Mt. Sinai) and rotate through NY presby, LIJ, Columbia, etc hospitals...however, NYCPM is a separate and independent entity. The school only offers a DPM degree (similar to Ohio).

JEWmongous said:

Pod doc:

Just so you know, It's new york college of podiatric medicine not NYU. I understand they get their faculty from some local med schools ( ie Mt. Sinai) and rotate through NY presby, LIJ, Columbia, etc hospitals...however, NYCPM is a separate and independent entity. The school only offers a DPM degree (similar to Ohio).

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isn't that the case with most, if not all of the schools? my understanding is that a person can get a MPH, MBA, etc, but that it is a concurrent program who's degree is awarded by another school/program. i know a PhD is available through case(i think it is case), but like the other programs, it is a concurrent enrollment program.

I meant more or less that a school like Temple University has many different colleges within (arts and science, medicine, dental, law, podiatry, etc). The podiatry program is a school within Temple University. Another example would be Des Moines which is a health science university...offering degrees in osteopathic med, pod med, PA, DPT, etc. CSPM, Barry, Scholl, and AZPOD are similar in this respect as well.

OCPM and NYCPM are podiatry degree-only granting institutions. They most likely offer a phd or MBA/MPH but it is through a separate university. Out of the 8 schools, I understand these two are the only ones considered "independent."

podoc123 said:

I'm glad this was brought up because I am interviewing at Ohio in December and really haven't heard much about the program? Are the new facilities brand new or did they just move locations and keep all the old equipment and that sort of stuff? Also, I understand the rankings here on SDN don't mean anything and they are just individual person's opinions, but Ohio was usually ranked in the middle and from what people are saying, it sound like thats not true. Maybe more Ohio students can chime in and let us know what they think of their program.

So Temple, NYU, and Ohio don't share their pt1 board scores? Thats interesting. I'm interviewing at Temple and NYU soon, will they not tell me if I ask during the interview?

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Temples Board 1st time pass rate for last year was 85%. It should be better this year as the school has become more stringent on who they let in.

wow - someone from Barry ripping on OCPM... Barry accepts anyone with a pulse. They invite everyone who applies for an interview

plus they have the same cheating/old test issues

OSUDDS said:

plus they have the same cheating/old test issues

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i didn't want to say anything, but now that you mention it, that is kinda funny! on the other hand, feli is proving my point: it doesn't matter where you attend school. show up with a positive attitude and if you don't have them already, get some good study habits in place.

Barry was the fastest school to offer an interview...automated e-mail about 6 hours after I submitted the online application. Kinda nuts in that aspect!

narkotiks said:

feli is a theorist. the points he makes are good and appreciable, but not always important all of the time. example: dr. landers teaches anatomy here and at case dental. his notes were great and quite honestly, i didn't need to have constant access to him. it depends more on you. if you are able to study and stay on top of things, you don't need the face time with the professors...

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I think "face time" varies in importance from student to student. It's a bit easier to build relationships, get difficult material clarified, get LORs, etc when you have direct access to the faculty on your campus. Every school has a few bad/lazy professors who aren't much help and the class effectively becomes independent study, but some schools have more of those than others. JMO

narkotiks said:

...it has been said over and over: the best thing to do is interview at a hand full of programs, and schoose the one that works best for you...

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I agree 100%^

JEWmongous said:

... Temple University has many different colleges within (arts and science, medicine, dental, law, podiatry, etc). The podiatry program is a school within Temple University. Another example would be Des Moines which is a health science university...offering degrees in osteopathic med, pod med, PA, DPT, etc. CSPM, Barry, Scholl, and AZPOD are similar in this respect as well.

OCPM and NYCPM are podiatry degree-only granting institutions. They most likely offer a phd or MBA/MPH but it is through a separate university. Out of the 8 schools, I understand these two are the only ones considered "independent."

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I agree totally and think this is a pretty significant weakness to the free-standing pod schools. OCPM sold the old Cleveland property for profit, and they moved to the new location. Class sizes are getting to be about the largest of any pod school, and that is because they chose to remain an independent for-profit school. I think integration with Case Western or another major institution would have been a better move, but we'll see...

The way pod schools will ideally trend is to fully integrated programs such as DMU, AZ, and the upcoming Western Univ program in California that are on campus at major universities and take nearly all basic sciences with osteopath students. Scholl and Temple are at comprehensive universities and have their pod programs somewhat integrated with MD programs, and Barry has the support of a comprehensive major university at which podiatry is the most advanced degree. CSPM is integrated with what seems to be a health professions teh school offering nursing, PA, PT, and pod degrees. Having a campus full of deep resources helps to facilitate and reduce costs for attracting dedicated full-time faculty, offering dual degrees, student services, etc. That allows the schools to not have to worry as much about making money, and they can focus on building a quality program. As free standing podiatry schools, NY and Ohio are still on an island, and that might be the reasons for some of the hardships. On the other hand, integration is not always easy, and CSPM struggled for awhile trying to find a university which could envelope the pod program and meet the needs of the students.

OSUDDS said:

wow - someone from Barry ripping on OCPM... Barry accepts anyone with a pulse. They invite everyone who applies for an interview

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I'm not "ripping" anything or anybody. The topic of this post was for the guy to learn a bit more about the program, and I mentioned a few possible things to look into. I've posted about the strengths and weaknesses of Barry's program when that info was requested also. It's very very hard to ascertain much more than just the condition of the facilities and how friendly the interviewer is during the pod school campus visit, so it should be no wonder that people ask for a bit more in depth info here.

even if ocpm, for example, was integrated with case, this really wouldn't make a large difference. yes, costs could be spread a little more, but faculty, which seems to be the issue here, would not really be any different than it is now. it would infact hinder things: we go from about 90 students in every class to 150--180?? now one professor has twice the number of students as before, yet some how can find time for each student?? no way. so the next step is to then integrate into an MD program...no one wants to be an island...and then what? we are just another md specialty. we may even just get absorbed...maybe not. in any case, i don't feel that affiliations mean that much. i am here for a D.P.M, not DPM-MD-JD-MPA-PhD. JMO

narkotiks said:

even if ocpm, for example, was integrated with case, this really wouldn't make a large difference. yes, costs could be spread a little more, but faculty, which seems to be the issue here, would not really be any different than it is now. it would infact hinder things: we go from about 90 students in every class to 150--180?? now one professor has twice the number of students as before, yet some how can find time for each student?? no way. so the next step is to then integrate into an MD program...no one wants to be an island...and then what? we are just another md specialty. we may even just get absorbed...maybe not. in any case, i don't feel that affiliations mean that much. i am here for a D.P.M, not DPM-MD-JD-MPA-PhD. JMO

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don't forget a very popular one (at least at SCPM): "MRS"

narkotiks said:

even if ocpm, for example, was integrated with case, this really wouldn't make a large difference. yes, costs could be spread a little more, but faculty, which seems to be the issue here, would not really be any different than it is now. it would infact hinder things: we go from about 90 students in every class to 150--180?? now one professor has twice the number of students as before, yet some how can find time for each student?? no way. so the next step is to then integrate into an MD program...no one wants to be an island...and then what? we are just another md specialty. we may even just get absorbed...maybe not. in any case, i don't feel that affiliations mean that much. i am here for a D.P.M, not DPM-MD-JD-MPA-PhD. JMO

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But if the classes for the podiatry and other students are taught at the same time then the professor does have to worry about 150-180 students but has to travel on top of that. He might as well only do one lecture in front of everyone. If you were integrated also I'm sure the podiatry class size would go down since costs are being cut by combination. They wouldn't have to get big class sizes to pay the bills.

Two thumbs up for OCPM, I have a special place in my heart for that school.

bdaddyjolley said:

If you were integrated also I'm sure the podiatry class size would go down since costs are being cut by combination. They wouldn't have to get big class sizes to pay the bills.

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This is almost becoming a necessity as the amount of students being taken by schools comes awful close to the amount of residency slots available.

jonwill said:

bdaddyjolley said:

...If you were integrated also I'm sure the podiatry class size would go down since costs are being cut by combination. They wouldn't have to get big class sizes to pay the bills.

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This is almost becoming a necessity as the amount of students being taken by schools comes awful close to the amount of residency slots available.

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I totally agree here.^

Many of my Barry basic sciences professors also teach PA students, MS grad students, or even undergrad classes. We also have MS Biomedical sciences (a SMP program) students side by side in some of our first year pod curriculum lectures like histo, gross, and biochem. PA and BMS students also share our anat lab, histo lab, path lab, etc facilities and study the cadavers pod students dissect.

It might seem packed early semesters, and early on, I was thinking "class sizes are pretty big and we shouldn't have to share our pod faculty." I'm sure some other students felt that way also. Then, you come to realize that it's well worth the tradeoff to have more and better dedicated full-time faculty with an office right upstairs from your classroom. You also get more and better technology, faculty, resources, etc when you share with other programs on the same campus. Cadavers, microscopes, slides, projectors, etc aren't cheap... mised well get multiple uses out of them and instead of just letting them collect dust when the pod students aren't utilizing them. I think all pod schools will probably have to be integrated for financial stability soon, and being integrated also lets a pod school accept less students in the years they don't get very many good applicants. The other university's students at other programs pick up the slack...

Feli said:

I totally agree here.^

Many of my Barry basic sciences professors also teach PA students, MS grad students, or even undergrad classes. We also have MS Biomedical sciences (a SMP program) students side by side in some of our first year pod curriculum lectures like histo, gross, and biochem. PA and BMS students also share our anat lab, histo lab, path lab, etc facilities and study the cadavers pod students dissect.

It might seem packed early semesters, and early on, I was thinking "class sizes are pretty big and we shouldn't have to share our pod faculty." I'm sure some other students felt that way also. Then, you come to realize that it's well worth the tradeoff to have more and better dedicated full-time faculty with an office right upstairs from your classroom. You also get more and better technology, faculty, resources, etc when you share with other programs on the same campus. Cadavers, microscopes, slides, projectors, etc aren't cheap... mised well get multiple uses out of them and instead of just letting them collect dust when the pod students aren't utilizing them. I think all pod schools will probably have to be integrated for financial stability soon, and being integrated also lets a pod school accept less students in the years they don't get very many good applicants. The other university's students at other programs pick up the slack...

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are you serious? here is a list of what you see the "pros" to integrating might be:
faculty offices right upstairs (more dedicated)
more and better technology
multiple uses out of supplies
supplies don't collect dust.

so, by having faculty offices right upstairs, a student is more likely to get high grades or even pass? all but one of the teachers i have had so far have offices right upstairs...some of them are just not in them from 8-5, mon-fri. again, i never needed that security blanket, and i don't think a lot of people do..
more and better technology. ours is pretty damn sweet right now! you should see all of the plasma screen they have in the anatomy lab. pretty cool! all of our classes are recorded (A/V) as well as any note the teacher makes. i love this feature!
the last two items are don't even merit a response. at 25k/year, i couldn't care less if i am the only dude using something. i am paying a substantial tuition and expect appropriate learning tools. if that means they sit on the shelf and collect dust after i use it twice, it doesn't really matter.
the moral: don't come to ohio if you need someone holding your hand. come to ohio if you are a self-starting and appreciating individual.

narkotiks said:

are you serious? here is a list of what you see the "pros" to integrating might be:
faculty offices right upstairs (more dedicated)
more and better technology
multiple uses out of supplies
supplies don't collect dust.

so, by having faculty offices right upstairs, a student is more likely to get high grades or even pass? all but one of the teachers i have had so far have offices right upstairs...some of them are just not in them from 8-5, mon-fri. again, i never needed that security blanket, and i don't think a lot of people do..
more and better technology. ours is pretty damn sweet right now! you should see all of the plasma screen they have in the anatomy lab. pretty cool! all of our classes are recorded (A/V) as well as any note the teacher makes. i love this feature!
the last two items are don't even merit a response. at 25k/year, i couldn't care less if i am the only dude using something. i am paying a substantial tuition and expect appropriate learning tools. if that means they sit on the shelf and collect dust after i use it twice, it doesn't really matter.
the moral: don't come to ohio if you need someone holding your hand. come to ohio if you are a self-starting and appreciating individual.

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The point about better supplies deserves tons of merit. From gyms to cafeterias to labs to computers to guest lecturers. The more people you have paying tuition and sharing these items and costs the better the items and the less the cost per student.

I went to an "independent" podiatry school. We had a room in the basement called a gym. The school had what was necessary but not much in the way of glamor, when I started.

If you are into campus life then going to a University is a priority not just for "hand holding" which is non-existant at any med school but for the culture you get as well. Integration may not help you imediately while in pod school but it helps spread the word about the profession and shows MD and DOs what we really learn.

krabmas said:

...Integration may not help you imediately while in pod school but it helps spread the word about the profession and shows MD and DOs what we really learn.

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This is something which cannot be understated.

Being at a comprehensive university is huge for exposure. Just like getting pod residencies and good pods into major hospitals working side by side with other physicians and health care workers, having pod students in the mix with other health professions students gets people aware. That means referrals, relationships, sharing of knowledge, and acceptance into mainstream medicine. Podiatry has great training and a lot to offer the health care team, but it goes to waste if other providers, patients, prospective students, etc are unaware.

My program takes classes with the special masters program as I said. Most of those students are pre-health with borderline applicant profiles that they are looking to strengthen with the MS degree, but many of them had no idea pod was its own degree until they came here and took some of the same classes we do. Some choose to do pod after their MS, and others are at least aware of it as they continue to MD/DO/DDS/etc pathes in the future. That's hundreds of pre-health students each year. You also have consider the PA students who have classes in the adjacent building and fraternize with pod students, the grad and undergrad nursing students who do the same, and all kinds of pre-meds around on campus who become aware that pod is the school's most advanced degree. I have pre-meds asking me about my program quite often, and I gladly point them to resources where they can learn more or even direct them to DPMs in the area who they can arrange shadowing with. Awareness is great and will increase future applicant interest and general public awareness for podiatry.

More than anything, the MD, DO, PA, pre-med, nursing students, therapy, etc are a great source of future referrals and multidisciplinary approach to health care. I think everyone can agree that podiatry needs to get off its island and start exploring the mainland of medicine, and that process has been gaining steam. I don't mean to sound anti-OCPM, but choosing to stay isolated and move from one pod-only campus to another was a bit counterproductive IMO...

i went to an indepent school and we got a free membership to Bally's

Didn't they give the free membership to bally's cause the gym in the old building at OCPM was pretty tight and not very modern? I am not sure of the gym facilities in the new independence building.

There was a gym in the old building. I would say that the equipment was not modern. But, we did have a membership to a facility that was next to the building. It was in some medical building. I never went there. The new building does have a work-out room as well. It is not very big. I think that is the reason for the Bally's membership.

zmeflyby said:

haha

i was told about that on todays interview.
I can only remember one of the first year students names (out of 4). DAVE

he was a funny one.

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Dave is that you?!?

As far as access to faculty goes...I called the Biochem professor today and he met with me at Starbucks for over 3 hours (2 days before our exam)

Facilities: everything is brand new; therefore, no one knows how anything works (comical sometimes)

Old tests!?! the only old tests I've seen are from Case Dental School (quite old too)

Any school is going to have BS you have to put up with, it just comes in different flavors

you are a ****** whiskers

stfu... if you don't know anything about something dont make ignorant comments. it makes you look dumb.

whiskers said:

So it's basically like getting a dental education??? Do any dental hygenists come in and teach too?

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....!

i would rather learn the anatomy of the head and neck from a dentist than a carribean MD... theres no punch line to that

ps - do you know anything about the other 2 professors that teach gross anatomy at OCPM, or their respective degrees? did you even know there were 2 other professors?...... do you know anything about ocpm?

OSUDDS said:

i would rather learn the anatomy of the head and neck from a dentist than a carribean MD... theres no punch line to that

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Shows your ignorance.
You don't need a punchline, you're an embarrassment to our alma mater.

OSUDDS said:

i would rather learn the anatomy of the head and neck from a dentist than a carribean MD... theres no punch line to that

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Basic sciences should be taught by PhDs IMO. Would you rather learn from a clinically trained guy who had two or three grad level classes in the course subject, or would you want to learn from a PhD who probably had dozens of grad and PhD classes, research, and a thesis directly related to the course? No contest.

Clinicians are best suited to teach... um, clinical sciences.

OSUDDS said:

i would rather learn the anatomy of the head and neck from a dentist than a carribean MD... theres no punch line to that

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Thats not cool. If that MD passed the USMLE Step 1, 2, and 3, he/she could teach me the anatomy of the head and neck. I don't care where they got their MD from. Numbers don't lie, just people.

AlleghenyPOD said:

Shows your ignorance.
You don't need a punchline, you're an embarrassment to our alma mater.

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youre definitely the bigger embarassment

i hope you go to the caribbean and get marroned there

no one should know anatomy of the upper portion of the body better than a dentist. plus this guy has been teaching anatomy for probably 30-40 years. i dont think anyone could do a better job. and there are 2 other professors that help to teach the course and Stephanie Belovich DOES have her PHd. To see all of these ignornant people talk about something they know nothing about is sickening.

OSUDDS said:

youre definitely the bigger embarassment

i hope you go to the caribbean and get marroned there

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oh yea... congratulations




(EDIT: By the way its not OUR alma mater... its MY alma mater. Just like you jump the gun with your premed ignorance, you have not graduated either.)

whiskers said:

So it's basically like getting a dental education??? Do any dental hygenists come in and teach too?

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that comment would have been really funny if a few things weren't true:

1) Dr. Landers, M.A., Exercise Physiology, D.D.S., Case Western Reserve University. couple that with 40, yes 40 years of teaching anatomy and i'd say he know what he is talking about. feli talks about Phd...he was constantly correcting the phd who was/is also an instructor, so...landers doesn't have a phd in anatomy, but i definately learned what i needed!! produce a hygenist with similar credentials, and i doubt many would have a problem learning at their feet.

2) basic sciences in any health program are very similar and although i would never say this, you could think that we all get a dental education, or that dental students get a medical education--what ever makes you hot. by and large, the specialization starts at the 3rd year, with a few minor exceptions, so your joke was kind of funny but more on the stupid end of things.

the issue was full time, dedicated staff. my submission is that it is inconsequential if the teacher is in his one office at one location from 8-5. i never needed that kind of time. some may.

jays2cool4u said:

Thats not cool. If that MD passed the USMLE Step 1, 2, and 3, he/she could teach me the anatomy of the head and neck. I don't care where they got their MD from. Numbers don't lie, just people.

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definitely not true. they could give you a descent overview, but what makes you think an ob/gyn could cover all of the intricacies of the head and neck?? hence, specialization. the body, as you will soon learn, is far too complex to have a general that can handle everything all of time and be effective.

Amen.. finally someone who knows what theyre talking about!!!

saying a dentist can't teach head and neck anatomy is like saying a podiatrist couldnt teach foot and ankle anatomy. I have a hard time believing that one.

and thats besides the point that there is also a PHD teaching the course AND Landers has been teaching anatomy for 40 years.

You know I really do hope more podiatrists aren't as narcisstic and infantile as you, lol, which is really sad considering you're only a 1st year student who hasn't even finished the first semester.
You are rude and obnoxious and I reiterate, an embarassment and the total antithesis of the kinds of students that Allegheny College produces.

Note** Not all Allegheny students and grads are like OSUDD

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PS. Thank You, i did get accepted to several DO and Carib MD schools. Picking right now
Btw, what happened yesterday? Go stillllllllers...