Didn't graduate from High School

I would apply as disadvantaged and make sure to address the high school oddity in your PS. This will also provide good PS fodder about the obstacles that you have had to overcome etc.

im applying for 08,, so take my advice for what its worth, its not like i sit on an admissions committee.

pearl158 said:

Will medical schools care that I didn't "graduate" from High School?

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you have a GED, and a pretty damn good explanation as to why you didnt graduate. They wont care that you DIDNT graduate any more than they care that I graduated #1 in my class. (which amounts to zilcho brownie points for med school, whether i like it or not. its not even mentioned on my amcas anywhere.)

pearl158 said:

Should I apply as Disadvantaged?

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absolutely. grew up in broken home? parent w/ mental problems therefore forced to drop out of high school to support yourself, had to attend a cc while paying rent, and nevertheless, currently a student w/ 3.7 gpa at a "great university?"
in my mind, and my humble opinion, (and again im not on an admissions cmte so keep that in mind), you definitely qualify, more than most of the people who check off the BS box of "URM" qualify for "special" consideration. im sure im gonna get flamed for saying that but i dont really care

pearl158 said:

I've kept myself out of trouble and have good grades, though my lifestyle hasn't allowed me to take part in the usual school-related EC's like premed club and sports.

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and i think applying as disadvantaged will help them understand and appreciate that fact. If you went to a private college, your parents footed the tution and dorming bills, and you had all the free time in the world to NOT worry abt being evicted, then ECs tend to be more of a "requirement" and theyll question an app when theyre sorely lacking. but given your circumstances, i dont think this will impact you in a negative fashion. BUT at any rate, it might be in your best interest to go shadow a doctor, or volunteer in a clinic (or if $ is really an issue, find a paid position as a phlebotomist cna or tech), just to get a "taste" of what medicine is all about.

good luck!!

I didn't graduate from high school either, and I go to a top university. I also didn't go to a high name undergraduate school either. I found that it actually helped alot having the story to tell behind not graduating; IE being able to talk about working all through the time I should have been going to school, showing that I was motivated, etc. Everything else was pretty much the same for me as your story, I left to live on my own when I was fifteen, started going to a CC when I was 17, etc. The only thing is that I applied only to Md/PHD Programs (and only 3 at that), so who knows what the difference might be with a straight up MD program...

So...yes you can go to a great graduate school even if you didn't go to highschool, went to a CC, and went to a no-name state university. I didn't apply as disadvantaged, though, mainly because I was stupid. I really SHOULD have, so I strongly urge you to if you have the chance and can actually back it up, don't let moralistic bullcrap get in the way of making your life a tiny bit easier.

hey, kid, you're goin to Harvard!!! not to sound crass, but that is an amazing personal story. I want you at my med school.

forget about applying as disadvantaged, just tell your story in the PS and the schools will be beating down your door.

Best of luck to you. You deserve it.

pearl158 said:

I have clinical experience EC's, and the other "standards" (research, community stuff) just no "honors club"/"beta kappa whatever" type of stuff (though I was on the honors list a few semesters).

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OMG....
then ur totally fine!!! seriously!!
beta kappa whatever i dont think matters that much. I went to a small liberal arts college and we didnt even have the opportunity to join phi betta kappa or whatever the rest of them were called. I have four publications though (as of yesterday), and you know what, to me that means a lot more than joining a club thats name is written in a language i dont even read
I think youre worrying alot too much.
what clinical experience and ecs do you have?? youve done research? so what the heck are you worrying about?? you sound like an excellent candidate.

pearl158 said:

How much detail should I give about my mom's mental problems? She isn't bipolar or anything that tends to run in families, she has a purely emotional disorder that (according to the shrinks that have evaluated me) I have escaped from nearly unscathed.

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and even if she WERE bipolar, i dont think that having a family member who is bipolar in and of itself raises a red flag. If that were the case, you wouldnt have all these ppl writing PSs about relatives dying of CA and how it inspired them to pursue medicine at age 10 and the like, b/c cancer is inherited, and what med school would wanna invest all that x and effort and $ into s/o who might die in 5 yrs like their mom did when they were 10 years old.

pearl158 said:

Should I be really vague?

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i dont know what type of emotional order youre talking abt, honestly, i think the BEST person to ask, is the psychiatrist who you spoke to. Explain your predicament. they went to med school too once upon a time. They can probably give you the most "eloquent" wording possible.

pearl158 said:

I guess I'm a little self conscious about my non-traditional background.

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dont be self conscious
you sound like youve accompished quite a bit despite your circumstances.
good luck!!

Congratulations on what you've accomplished. Yes, apply disadvantaged.

You don't want to hide the background; you want it to be known. Don't be melodramatic or apologetic about your life. State things simply enough that readers are drawn to want to meet you and talk to you. Being vague about your mother's problems is fine and probably the best way to go about it.

You have a story to tell. A good story teller leaves the reader hungry to do more. Use that background to your advantage without being obvious about it. I'd wish you luck, but I don't think you need it.

I agree with applying as disadvantaged. I don't know the criteria for applying disadvantaged, but if you don't fit, I think the entire notion of disadvantaged would be useless.

It sounds like you have an amazing story to tell. If you keep the bit of humility you've shown here while still telling the facts behind your situation, I doubt you will have any problem getting into medical school (save for a bad MCAT score, but I'm sure you'll do fine if you pulled off a 3.7).

pearl158 said:

How much detail should I give about my mom's mental problems?

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NONE, unless you think it has relevance to "why I want to be a physician" and/or "why I will be a good physician," which are the things you should address in your personal statement.

ditto with not graduating from high school. if it's relevant to one of those two issues, then by all means, write about it in your personal statement. it certainly won't hurt you if you write about it appropriately (ie, no excuses). but there's no NEED to write about it if you don't want to.

at interviews, just be open and forthcoming and honest IF those things are brought up. don't be defensive. they're part of who you are - not an advantage OR a disadvantage. like all unique aspects of an applicant's life, they can be advantages if they are discussed with maturity.

just my opinions.

If undergraduate schools didn't care that you don't have a HS diploma why would med schools? I'm sure they don't more than glance at any info you include about your HS institution. I technically never graduated HS either (not even a GED) because of some BS math credit from middle school that didn't transfer to my HS (really beauracratic nonsense). No school cared about this when I applied to undergrad.

Let's describe your chances in poker terms. You've got from a 2, 7 off suit to pocket aces.

pearl158 said:

I have no idea what that means. But, I see a " " so I think that's good.

Can you translate? I'm curious.

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It's from Texas Hold 'Em poker. The game gives you two cards in your hand and 5 cards eventually places on the table. The best 5 card combination you can have wins the round.

Thus, 2-7 off suit is the worst hand in the game because you can't make any meaningful combinations. Pocket aces is the best because of the statistical chances of winning the round.

To the OP, I was in a similar situation as you and didn't know whether I should apply as disadvantaged or not. My undergrad advisor, who is also on the UC Irvine adcom, told me I shouldn't apply disadvantaged because my personal struggles were the focus of my personal statement. Her reasoning was that she felt my personal statement discussed my circumstances in sufficient detail, and any more discussion would be unecessary, and possibly make my story seem less "triumphant."

However, be prepared to explain why you didn't apply disadvantaged in interviews. Every school I applied to that has an open interview asked me that question.

I am confident that if you discuss your situation with eloquence and maturity, then you should be just fine. Congrats on all your accomplishments and goodluck with your application.

pearl158 said:

Seriously? Umm, thanks I'm a little shy about it, to be honest, it seems like so long ago (5 years). I don't want it to seem like I feel entitled or I'm trying to manipulate the adcomm's with a sad story.

Thanks for the support, everyone. I thought I might be given a hard time about this, I guess I'm a little self conscious about my non-traditional background.

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Don't be embarrassed about your history. It's how you became the person you are today. GL, I'm sure you'll have schools knocking down your door!

TheRealMD said:

Pocket aces is the best because of the statistical chances of winning the round.

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Of course, whenever I've got pocket rockets the freakin two seven makes a full house...

In all seriousness, schools are going to love you. Just get used to telling your story repeatedly in interviews.

PeepshowJohnny said:

Of course, whenever I've got pocket rockets the freakin two seven makes a full house...

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How do you loose with pocket rockets? That's like the immature 4.0, 42T kid whining about not getting in!

TheRealMD said:

How do you loose with pocket rockets? That's like the immature 4.0, 42T kid whining about not getting in!

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Hey! How'd you know my undergrad scores!

I'm using hyperbole for humor, but I've taken some incredible bad beats in medical school. We always seem to have one or two people at each game who are new to the game and call everything, but hit some ridiculous hands. They tend to stay in the game because someone will try to push them out with aces to their eight six off suit, and of course the newbie hits the straight and make a huge pot. Of course they lose in the end, but it's frustrating when they suck out on you.

Although I did graduate high school, I had a similar situation as you and decided to include it in my personal statement. It was not the focus of my personal statement, but I included enough info for understanding, but not enough to make it the reader's business. I did not want pity, but I felt the 80+ hours per week that I worked over the summers was definitely an important part of who I was. It did not occur to me that I should apply as disadvantaged, so I did not. The US department of Health and Human services has a definition for "disadvantaged" and you probably qualify. Would applying disadvantaged have an effect on your application status? or your financial aid package? I do not really know how that works, but the impact that this might have would be worth considering.

If you are nervous about your high school status contact an admissions office, however, there are home schooled kids at my med school so you would not be the first without a traditional diploma. I am sure the med school won't give a crap, but I wonder about lisencing requirements. I know of foreign medical grad who could not get a lisence in one state because he did not go to high school, but he also did not have any equivancy exam.

Definitely don't apply as disadvantaged. They shouldn't care that you don't have a high school diploma as long as you have a bachelor's degree. Just mention your story in your PS. I didn't graduate from high school either, btw.

If you apply as disadvantaged, you might want to leave off most of your backstory in the PS. Include a clear essay in the disadvantaged section, but only use things for the PS if they specifically demonstrate your passion for medicine or why you chose it.

pearl158 said:

Would it be wise to use part of the story if I felt it demonstrated some quality like responsibily or maturity that I feel is an important part of my application?

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I think that's a good idea. I took the prompt fairly directly, explaining my motivation for medicine. Either way, getting an advisor to review your statements is the best way to get advice.

pearl158 said:

Really? Why not? One of the questions they ask you to determine whether or not you are disadvantaged is if you worked prior to age 18 for other than discretionary spending money. I've worked full time since 15 to support myself independently and to pay for college. Don't you think that is disadvantaged compared to most premeds who have never had a full time job and had their tuition and living expenses paid for by their parents? My question about disadvantaged status wasn't in reference to the high school part, it was in reference to leaving home at 16 and working full time to support myself because I moved out after my mom became unstable and my family went on welfare.

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Oh good point. Then I would say you are disadvantaged....

I feel like I was in a very similar situation as yours and I ended up deciding not to apply as disadvantaged but I really think it should be an individual decision. My mother is bipolar and ended having a massive manic episode at the end of my junior year which caused a nasty brutal divorce during my senior year. I was basically left on my own to pay for everything from that point on and ended up getting married at 17 which also legally emancipated me. I was very worried about talking about my mother's illness, who is a very brilliant and successful computer professional, bc I was worried adcoms might think it was inheritable and everyone in my family told me not to talk about it. I decided that since I was 28 (I'm a non-trad) that the adcoms would have to be pretty stupid to think that I was going to inherit it or something so I decided to talk about it in my PS. I think it has gone over fairly well although in most of my interviews, the interviewers were more likely to complement the PS but then seemed uncomfortable to actually talk about the subject straight up, which kind of bummed me out. I felt her illness was very important in the formation of me as a person and my belief system and also explained some of the holes in my application so that's what I wanted to get across to the adcoms. It was a very positive and upbeat PS and not pity-me in anyway.

In the end, I decided not to claim disadvantaged status for many reasons due to the questions they asked. I grew up in underserved rural areas but moved to a very good school district when I was 11 and I don't think my education was truly disadvantaged in any way. We were on welfare a lot when I was a child but there were also many years where we would make 6-figure plus so I saw the thrift shops but also got to do a lot of really cool things as a child too. I worked and paid for everything from 16 on but I felt like I knew a lot of middle class people who could not claim disadvantaged who also kind of supported themselves in the same way. I was 28, not 22 and had plenty of time to pull myself out of my situation. And there are a lot of highly educated people in my family who I was able to learn from and I have known so many others who have absolutely no one in their family who even made it to college so I just didn't feel disadvantaged in that way either. My conscience just wouldn't let me do it but I think it would have been OK if I had. I just preferred to talk about my background in my PS and leave the assumptions about my past to the adcoms rather than having to justify everything by claiming disadvantaged.

Good luck with everything, IMHO we need more people with your kind of background in the medical profession.

pearl158 said:

Due to a variety of circumstances (including my single mom's emotional breakdown and a total loss of my family's income), I stopped my high school education when I was 15. I was homeschooled up until my mom's meltdown and public school wasn't really a great option as we lived in a very dangerous area and the public school was terrible. I was a Junior in HS and took the High School Proficiency Exam (GED was for people over 17) which is the legal equivalent of a high school diploma. I left home and was legally emancipated right after my 16th birthday, got a job to pay my rent and started taking classes at a CC. I've kept myself out of trouble and have good grades, though my lifestyle hasn't allowed me to take part in the usual school-related EC's like premed club and sports.

I'm now a Junior at a great university, have almost a 3.7 GPA and I'm applying to med school in the next year or two. I'm the "normal" age for an applicant and everything else is in line (ECs, LORs, etc), but I was checking the AMCAS website and looking over the worksheet and noticed that they ask where you went to high school and where you graduated. Is this going to be a problem? What do I write? The CHSPE (the test that I took) is not as widely recognized as the GED, but is supposed to be sufficient ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High_School_Proficiency_Exam ). Will medical schools care that I didn't "graduate" from High School?

Also, based on the above information, I've been advised by multiple people to apply as Disadvantaged. I'm not URM, and until my early teens, my family was more or less middle class, so I don't personally identify myself as a "disadvantaged person". On the other hand, I have struggled to succeed and I have overcome and experienced a lot of things other people my age and in my academic position haven't. I paid for all of my own expenses and worked to support myself since age 16. Should I apply as Disadvantaged?

Thanks for your time and input.

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dude u remind me of how good i have it, thanks man nd i wish u the best of luck

I am a foreign born applicant and I did not go to school in the US either - I do not think it matters at all, as long as you have a bachelor degree from the US. Good luck!

pearl158 said:

Would it be wise to use part of the story if I felt it demonstrated some quality like responsibily or maturity that I feel is an important part of my application?

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Definitely apply as disadvantaged. It doesn't say anything bad about you. You qualify because you have supported yourself since age 15. Discuss it in your personal statement, but if you prefer to be vague then be vague. What stands out the most, in my opinion, is the fact that you aren't letting your background define you as an applicant. You aren't rubbing this in anyone's face, and you aren't trying to get pity. In fact, it seems like that's the last thing you want is pity. You sound like a strong applicant.

gators13 said:

Definitely apply as disadvantaged. It doesn't say anything bad about you. You qualify because you have supported yourself since age 15. Discuss it in your personal statement, but if you prefer to be vague then be vague. What stands out the most, in my opinion, is the fact that you aren't letting your background define you as an applicant. You aren't rubbing this in anyone's face, and you aren't trying to get pity. In fact, it seems like that's the last thing you want is pity. You sound like a strong applicant.

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Yeah, but if the OP discusses their situation in the PS and also applies disadvantaged, it may seem as if they are seeking pity. That was the advice given to me by my undergrad advisor who is also on the UC Irvine adcom. The OP definitely sounds disadvantaged, however, the AMCAS application is essentially a game trying to balance subconscious psychological and emotional responses.

To the OP, if your circumstances directly led to your decision to pursue a medical career, then by all means, it should be the focus of your PS. If not then I recommend highlighting it in your PS, but discussing it in greater detail in the disadvantaged section.