How important is it to take NBME exams?

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Knicks

Knicks

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Are these a must?

Can you just assess yourself with USMLEworld questions?


Any constructive input will be appreciated.
 
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I would say that they are. They are the best predictors of your score and the only material directly provided by the test makers. Also questions from the 4 NBME's often show up on the real thing.
 
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Knicks said:
Are these a must?

Can you just assess yourself with USMLEworld questions?


Any constructive input will be appreciated.
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I have mixed views. On the one hand, as Pinker suggested, they give you a rough sense of how you are doing and give you some insight into the kinds of questions these test takers make. On the other hand you aren't given the answers, and the NBME website itself makes pretty clear that these are not meant to be predictors of how you actually will do on the exam. Some people find them to be great predictors, others, not so much. But generally a better gauge than world. I personally found them helpful to see in which topics I needed work, and to work on timing. But honestly, I couldn't say whether that time would have been better spent going through more qbank/world problems in tutor mode. I saw no repeat questions from the NBMEs on the real thing. I did see one or two that were strikingly similar (but not exact) to World.
 
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Pinkertinkle said:
I would say that they are. They are the best predictors of your score and the only material directly provided by the test makers. Also questions from the 4 NBME's often show up on the real thing.
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I second this. I highly recommend that you do all 4 NBME exams unless you can not afford the 4 x $45 (in which case you should at least do 2 NBMEs).
 
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i plan on doing one maybe 3 weeks out to get a sense of timing. I have traditionally found doing questions without answers provided to be suboptimally productive.
 
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I found it to be the most realistic and similar to the real one. I did it the day before my exam. It is different from Kap Qbank, Qbook and UW. The questions had a special flavor that I certainly encountered in the real exam. I recommend it over all the other preparation tools. Plus, you can see the tutorial and skip it in the real exam and gain 15 minutes for your break.

lankysudanese said:
I second this. I highly recommend that you do all 4 NBME exams unless you can not afford the 4 x $45 (in which case you should at least do 2 NBMEs).
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4 x $45 ?? Is there a charge? I downloaded NBME from www.usmle.org for free. The 2007 & 2008 editions are available.
 
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I didn't take any NBME exams, but I think they are a good idea if you want to gauge your progress. I don't really believe that USMLE world is going to be very predictive of your score (although it is excellent preparation for the exam and a great learning tool). You should see, though, if your school has exams you could take for free. The academic development person at my school had several exams of varying lengths, along with data to correlate them to your potential boards score. Anyway, either NBME's or other predictive exams (from your school) are not necessarily a must, but if you are really concerned about your progress, I would trust the results more than USMLE World.
 
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rox said:
4 x $45 ?? Is there a charge? I downloaded NBME from www.usmle.org for free. The 2007 & 2008 editions are available.
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Sounds like you just did the free test, which isn't considered particularly representative. The 4 released NBME tests are for a $45 fee each.
 
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I think everyone should do one to get a feel for NBME style and to see how long it takes to do the questions.

Doing 4 is not a bad idea but I don't think it's essential.
 
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As someone who advises students on USMLE prep constantly, and who also gets a lot of score feedback after students take their exams, I do recommend that if you are at all uneasy as to how "test ready" you are, or want some idea of how well you might score on Step 1, it's worth it to pay the $45 and to spend the 4-5 hours taking at least Form 1 of the self-assessments. Based on the feedback I've gotten, that form has been highly accurate in predicting actual scores, usually within a few points if the assessment was taken fairly close in time to the real exam. It's true that you don't get answers, but the reason to take it is to have some estimate of your likely score level. The other forms do seem to be somewhat less accurate predictors, again based on student feedback.😎
 
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In my opinion based on feedback from a few years of SDN users, forms 2-4 are superior predictors to form 1.

They are newer tests so it is possible their questions are more up to date.
 
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Thanks everyone for your input,

this is what I took away from this thread:

-It's not truly necessary.

-the NBME site claims that the tests aren't good predictors, yet students feel that they ARE good predictors? (weird) 0.o

-Tests 2-4 are better than test 1.



One other thing, people who use UW say that if you're scoring around a 60 on UW, that's a pretty good indicator that you'll past the Step 1.


I'm still undecided about the NBME's,,,, especially after the fact that you don't get explanations.
 
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lord_jeebus said:
In my opinion based on feedback from a few years of SDN users, forms 2-4 are superior predictors to form 1.

They are newer tests so it is possible their questions are more up to date.
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Agreed. The consensus on SDN seems to be that form 1 is too easy compared to the real thing. (and that Form 3 might be too hard).
 
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Sounds like you're hearing what you want to hear.

Not predictive? Take a look at the past score threads, 90% of the time NBME's predict within 5 pts.

No explanations? Give me a break, 2 minutes with Google will get you all the explanation you need.

NBME's are the highest yield 200 bucks I ever spent.

Knicks said:
Thanks everyone for your input,

this is what I took away from this thread:

-It's not truly necessary.

-the NBME site claims that the tests aren't good predictors, yet students feel that they ARE good predictors? (weird) 0.o

-Tests 2-4 are better than test 1.



One other thing, people who use UW say that if you're scoring around a 60 on UW, that's a pretty good indicator that you'll past the Step 1.


I'm still undecided about the NBME's,,,, especially after the fact that you don't get explanations.
Click to expand...
 
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Pinkertinkle said:
Not predictive? Take a look at the past score threads, 90% of the time NBME's predict within 5 pts.
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Just my opinion, but I gotta believe that many of the folks for whom it was not predictive aren't going to be posting as often. It's hard to ignore the multiple statements on the NBME site that the scores on these tests should not be used as an accurate prediction of how you will do on the real thing.
 
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There's a statement on my box of Q-tips that says not to put them in my ear, but I still do after I shower. My opinion is that message is legal mumbo jumbo so no one goes around suing NBME for not predicting their scores accurately. In my experience NBME's are the best predictors out there

Law2Doc said:
Just my opinion, but I gotta believe that many of the folks for whom it was not predictive aren't going to be posting as often. It's hard to ignore the multiple statements on the NBME site that the scores on these tests should not be used as an accurate prediction of how you will do on the real thing.
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I took one a couple weeks into my studying. It helped boost my confidence and find my weaknesses to focus studying over the enxt few weeks.

I think taking all four would be a lot of money for very little benefit. Sure, the questions show up again (sometimes) but some of my questions from UWorld were almost verbatim on Step 1 as well.
 
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SoCuteMD said:
I think taking all four would be a lot of money for very little benefit. Sure, the questions show up again (sometimes) but some of my questions from UWorld were almost verbatim on Step 1 as well.
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I'm gonna have to disagree. Even though several questions do come verbatim from the NBMEs, that is not their main advantage. Each NBME emphasizes on a different set of subjects. Therefore, by doing all 4 NBMEs one would have been tested on all topics (that are fair game in Step 1) at the same level of complexity as the real test. For example, nutrition was only tested in NBME 1 and 2 (not really in 3 and 4), but was heavily tested in my Step 1, so I am glad that I did all 4 NBMEs and found that I needed to work on nutrition.
 
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what about repeat predictiveness? i took nbme 1-3 however my test is in 5 days and i am actually scared to take 4 because my experience with 3. I thought nbme 3 was more appropriate if i was applying for a job with the Human Genome Project and my score dropped from a correlated 232 from Form 2 to a 224 in Form 3.
I was thinking of retaking Form 1 or 2 again as I really dont remember the questions or anything about the exam but I was hopin for some input from u guys if that is a worthwhile move but I heard Form 4 had even more molec bio than Form 3 which is ridiculous to begin with

Suggestions.....?
 
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darkmansaad said:
what about repeat predictiveness? i took nbme 1-3 however my test is in 5 days and i am actually scared to take 4 because my experience with 3. I thought nbme 3 was more appropriate if i was applying for a job with the Human Genome Project and my score dropped from a correlated 232 from Form 2 to a 224 in Form 3.
I was thinking of retaking Form 1 or 2 again as I really dont remember the questions or anything about the exam but I was hopin for some input from u guys if that is a worthwhile move but I heard Form 4 had even more molec bio than Form 3 which is ridiculous to begin with

Suggestions.....?
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IMHO 3 was worse than the others. Obviously it depends on what your knowledge base is.
 
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Pinkertinkle said:
In my experience NBME's are the best predictors out there
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Sure, I agree. But "best" and "good" aren't always the same thing. And how good a predictor you think it is is going to be tainted by how well it predicted your score (as opposed to those of all takers). There are also folks out there for whom one or more NBMEs did not reflect their actual score. Without good data you can't really know beyond your own experience. And given the dearth of good evidence, I gotta go by the fact that the testmakers themselves say don't rely on it. All I'm saying.
 
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Law2Doc said:
But "best" and "good" aren't always the same thing. And how good a predictor you think it is is going to be tainted by how well it predicted your score (as opposed to those of all takers).
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I'm pretty sure Pinkertinkle is not making that statement based only on his experience, but rather on the numerous posts in the 'official results' threads in which test takers make the "NBMEs are very predictive" statement, or show a direct correlation in the scores in the NBMEs and the real test. Despite what the disclaimer on the USMLE website (which you seem to be fixated on) says, if you perform at the same level on Step 1 as you did on any of the NBMEs your real score will be very close (around +/- 5) to the predicted score.

Law2Doc: I would be interested to find out whether or not there was any correlation between your NBME scores and your Step 1 score?
 
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Are you guys talking about the clinical sciences section or the basic sciences forms?

I seem to be seeing both and not sure which most people are talking about.
 
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I scored on par with the people posting on this thread (>260) and I feel the NBMEs aren't necessary. I only did one of them about halfway through my studying just to see if I could pass. After that, I wasn't going to waste 3 more days doing more NBME tests that I couldn't review. The way I viewed it was if I did worse on a test it would screw up my confidence but if i did what I was expecting it wouldn't change anything at all (except that I wasted half a day doing a test I couldn't review). Not everyone gets 3+ months to study for this test, choose what you do on each day wisely.

Same goes for those 150qs - never touched them.
 
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lankysudanese said:
I'm gonna have to disagree. Even though several questions do come verbatim from the NBMEs, that is not their main advantage. Each NBME emphasizes on a different set of subjects. Therefore, by doing all 4 NBMEs one would have been tested on all topics (that are fair game in Step 1) at the same level of complexity as the real test. For example, nutrition was only tested in NBME 1 and 2 (not really in 3 and 4), but was heavily tested in my Step 1, so I am glad that I did all 4 NBMEs and found that I needed to work on nutrition.
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Eh, you probably could have figured out that you needed to work on nutrition for less than the $180 it cost you to take all 4 NBMEs.

blz said:
I scored on par with the people posting on this thread (>260) and I feel the NBMEs aren't necessary. I only did one of them about halfway through my studying just to see if I could pass. After that, I wasn't going to waste 3 more days doing more NBME tests that I couldn't review. The way I viewed it was if I did worse on a test it would screw up my confidence but if i did what I was expecting it wouldn't change anything at all (except that I wasted half a day doing a test I couldn't review). Not everyone gets 3+ months to study for this test, choose what you do on each day wisely.

Same goes for those 150qs - never touched them.
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I agree with blz. Being able to review your mistakes is valuable, and something many medical students forget about and do not do adequately. I reviewed ALL of my mistakes for ALL of my tests during 2nd year, and the things I got wrong really stuck in my head when boards time came.
 
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SoCuteMD said:
I agree with blz. Being able to review your mistakes is valuable, and something many medical students forget about and do not do adequately. I reviewed ALL of my mistakes for ALL of my tests during 2nd year, and the things I got wrong really stuck in my head when boards time came.
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My school sucks in this regard because we are not allowed to review the tests, so I really don't know for sure exactly what I missed nor can I figure out why. It's lame, but my professors don't want to write new questions and don't trust us to review the existing ones, so eh, we're stuck. Their official policy is that tests are purely for evaluative purposes and not for learning. I'll note that we have a below average pass rate for the USMLE. 🙄

I'm also giving a thumbs down to NBME for requiring you to run windows to download their free test material. I'm guessing the same is true for the stuff you purchase, which again is not cool. Just a heads up to the mac/linux users out there.
 
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SoCuteMD said:
Eh, you probably could have figured out that you needed to work on nutrition for less than the $180 it cost you to take all 4 NBMEs.
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well, Kaplan Qbank, USMLEWorld, USMLEasy, Exam Master, Robbins Review of Pathology and BRS biochemistry all failed to adequately test me on nutrition (at least not to the level tested in the NBMEs or my Step 1 exam). Plus what is $180 when compared to gaining access to the most representative question bank in the market. I stick by my word - the NBMEs play a major role in securing a stellar Step 1 performance.

SoCuteMD said:
Being able to review your mistakes is valuable, and something many medical students forget about and do not do adequately. I reviewed ALL of my mistakes for ALL of my tests during 2nd year, and the things I got wrong really stuck in my head when boards time came.
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I agree with you on this point, since I did the same thing during second year. But who said you can't find the answer to your questions in the NBME? During every test, I quickly jotted down tough questions and the answer options, and then reviewed my notes or checked google (as suggested earlier) after the test was over. I understand that this would not be feasible for someone who is not breaking 600/800 (b/c they would end up with too much info to look up), but for somebody who is breaking 600 there will only be a few questions per section that truly have you tied up in a knot.
 
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When do most people take the NBME exams, say during a standard 5 week study regimen?
 
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lankysudanese said:
well, Kaplan Qbank, USMLEWorld, USMLEasy, Exam Master, Robbins Review of Pathology and BRS biochemistry all failed to adequately test me on nutrition (at least not to the level tested in the NBMEs or my Step 1 exam). Plus what is $180 when compared to gaining access to the most representative question bank in the market. I stick by my word - the NBMEs play a major role in securing a stellar Step 1 performance.
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All you had to do was read the Goljan chapter on nutrition (or listen to his nutrition lecture) and you would have been money for nutrition.

It's easy for you to stand by your word since I believe you mentioned you had months to study for this test. So obv, its to your benefit to use all the resources you can. But for people who don't have months to study, the benefit of doing all the NBMEs is less so for the reasons I mentioned prior.
 
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Law2Doc said:
Just my opinion, but I gotta believe that many of the folks for whom it was not predictive aren't going to be posting as often. It's hard to ignore the multiple statements on the NBME site that the scores on these tests should not be used as an accurate prediction of how you will do on the real thing.
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No it's not. Take the tests. Spend the money. They're a tad easier than Step 1, but they're the best thing available.
 
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blz said:
All you had to do was read the Goljan chapter on nutrition (or listen to his nutrition lecture) and you would have been money for nutrition.

It's easy for you to stand by your word since I believe you mentioned you had months to study for this test. So obv, its to your benefit to use all the resources you can. But for people who don't have months to study, the benefit of doing all the NBMEs is less so for the reasons I mentioned prior.
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point well taken. i just don't remember the OP (or anybody else in this thread) mentioning time as a factor. so when i give advice, i usually assume that the OP wants to achieve the highest score possible and is fighting for every last point. so i don't see how people could go about advising people not to take advantage of such an important resource (especially when nobody mentioned time constraint as a factor). I would understand your input if you were advocating for other resources which you found immensely helpful (like your goljan), but how could you feel confident belittling a resource which you've never used?
 
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Cards21aceking said:
When do most people take the NBME exams, say during a standard 5 week study regimen?
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I don't think there's a consensus on this

One idea would be:

NBME #1 on first day of prep
NBME #2 after a week
NBME #3 after 2-3 weeks
NBME #4 a week before the test

The purpose of this strategy would be to follow one's weaknesses through the prep process, and monitor progress through the predicted Step I scores.

Another recommendation: when you take the test, take notes on things you realize you don't know. Afterwards, review both those facts, and related topics that you are also likely weak in.
 
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I'm going to have to agree with lankysudanese here. The 4 NBME's are absolutely the BEST 800 QUESTIONS YOU WILL EVER SEE! Guys, they're retired USMLE questions. You will see many of the concepts repeated on Step 1 and some questions may even show up verbatim on your exam! So if you have the time and the $180 (borrow if you have to) then by all means take all 4 of the NBME exams.

Is it necessary to do the NBME's in order to do well on Step 1? No. Blz and other posters are great examples of students who've crushed Step 1 without much focus on the NBME's.

But then again, do you have to do UW to do well on Step 1? Nope! But people still do b/c it's probably the best online question bank out there these days.

If I were taking Step 1 this year, I'd do Kaplan Qbook, UW, and all 4 of the NBMEs in tutor-mode.

G'luck guys!
 
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lankysudanese said:
point well taken. i just don't remember the OP (or anybody else in this thread) mentioning time as a factor. so when i give advice, i usually assume that the OP wants to achieve the highest score possible and is fighting for every last point. so i don't see how people could go about advising people not to take advantage of such an important resource (especially when they nobody mentioned time constraint as a factor). I would understand your input if you were advocating for other resources which you found immensely helpful (like your goljan), but how could you feel confident belittling a resource which you’ve never used?
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good points. I did take an NBME and maybe I wasn't able to benefit from it because I took it under timed constraints. I was a little pissed at the end when all I saw was a score. I felt like I wasted 4 hours when I could of just done more USMLEworld (I never got to finish it) or just reviewed more.
 
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I didn't even know about the NBME exams, so I'd say they are not necessary. They may help, but not an absolute must. Of course, this is coming from someone who tends to just flounder into a lot of stuff without much of an idea as to what is going on until I get there.
 
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Hoooba said:
What do you guys think is the ideal order to take the tests? Should I do #4 first to get it out of the way?
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NBME 1 and 2 are older so less biochem/mol. bio.

NBME 3 and 4 have relatively more, although the latter has more WTF type questions.

After reading hundreds of study strategies over the last few years, I'd say NBME 3 is probably the best predictor.

I'd recommend you do them in this order 1, 4, 2, 3. (or 1, 2, 4, 3. Whatever floats your boat).
 
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our dean was telling us the other day that at our school students' performances on test 3 most closely mirrored their performances on the real exam.

i was thinking of taking one of the nbme's right at the beginning of my studies just to gauge what my weakest points are and then maybe take exam 3 toward the end. you guys think it matters which one i chose to use as my preliminary let's-see-how-this-goes exam? is exam 1 too unrealistic?
 
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I'm starting to feel that Qbank questions are a great learning tool, but are probably not stylistically acurate. Are these NBME tests more useful as predictive tools (to be used toward the end of studying), or can they be used just to get a feel for the writing style of the testmakers (at the beginning of studying)?
 
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Lee580 said:
I'm starting to feel that Qbank questions are a great learning tool, but are probably not stylistically acurate. Are these NBME tests more useful as predictive tools (to be used toward the end of studying), or can they be used just to get a feel for the writing style of the testmakers (at the beginning of studying)?
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USMLE World and NBME exams are exactly what the interface will look like.

As for overall difficulty, the NBME's are what you'll see. Its interesting, a lot of people forget how many freebie questions were on the real thing. I had a pretty even mix of hard/medium/easy questions.
 
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