Work study is incompatible with med school: discuss

DrMidlife · Jan 20, 2008

I allege that any med school that claims work study to be a form of financial aid is on crack. I further allege that a med school that allows or encourages students to have jobs during school is irresponsible.

A student who has done an SMP, or worked as a nurse or PA or researcher before med school, is likely an exception to this allegation. Furthermore, med students in this category can do much better, in terms of wages and benefits, than work study opportunities.

I allege that med school is a 60 to 80 hr/wk job. We'll probably have ~25 hours a week of scheduled lecture/lab/etc. We'll realistically need 8-10 hours per day of outside study. I allege that using up the rest of the week working is a poor use of time. I allege that socializing, exercising, volunteering, and otherwise maintaining life balance are FAR more important than making a bit of money to offset debt. A med student who is under pressure from parents or the school to earn a chump wage is being abused.

Work study means $8/hr to $15/hr, for 10-20 hours/wk. Good luck finding a work study position that is any more appropriate to your education than a premed extra-curricular. The money coming in would be on the order of $5k to $10k per year, for at most the first two years. That income for up to two years is a VERY EXPENSIVE $10k to $20k offset to our eventual debt burden.

I allege that prioritizing a low-paying part time job against almost any other use of that time is a ridiculous mistake.

Discuss.

EEL08 · Jan 20, 2008

My husband was told work study could be done just over the summer between M1 and M2 and on breaks when the school is open. I don't see how that would conflict with being a good med student if you could in fact do that.

scpod · Jan 20, 2008

DrMidlife said:
I allege that prioritizing a low-paying part time job against almost any other use of that time is a ridiculous mistake.

You're probably right about a low-paying job. They keep sending out emails at our school for an OMSII to work in the pharmaceutical lab for a few hours a week and haven't got any hits at all. I, however, do have a job. I teach part-time Anatomy and Physiology 5 nights a week at a nursing school and getpaid $21,500/yr to do it. It cuts into my study time, but it's a pretty good review and I would probably waste that much time anyway. Plus, I don't have to take out the maximum on my loans and I'll have considerably less debt to pay back. If I was 25 it wouldn't matter so much. But, at 43, it does.

t-funk · Jan 20, 2008

If I can't sell my house, I will probably have to get a part time job. We'll see. You have to do what you have to do.

DrMattOglesby · Jan 20, 2008

what about signing up for work-study as a physiology supplemental instructor?
im currently doing that...however im not in medical school.
i think that i will have a more solid understanding of the material due to this activity though. so i would argue that as long as the activity related to the field one is currently studying about, it shouldnt be so much of a stressor.
-matt

toothless rufus · Jan 20, 2008

If you can study where you work, then ok! Otherwise NO WAY!!

jappleseed · Jan 20, 2008

Dr. Midlife

I agree with what you are saying. I am in the Drexel IMS program this year and am currently taking all the first year med classes except gross anatomy and genetics. There is no way I could work even a part time job and feel that it was a good use of my time. My grades would probably suffer as well. Even without the anatomy and genetics, it has been a ton of work, especially while going out on the interview trail. Even next year when I start school at KCOM, there is no way I will consider working even a part time job. If my grades are awesome, and time permits, I will probably do research or something more useful, or even just spend more time with family or friends.

spazzz · Jan 20, 2008

my cousin was a phlebotomist while in med school

DrMidlife · Jan 20, 2008

For the record, "work study" means that a chunk of your federal aid package includes supplemental funding for an employer who wants to sponsor a low-paying part time job, with the oversight of a school's financial aid office. My argument is that a financial aid office who views this arrangement as a benefit to its med students is seriously delusional, maybe criminally delusional.

I'm not at all trying to argue against med students who score good gigs on the side. If you can make, say, $25/hr, on your terms, and/or you score a gig that keeps you ahead of the pack on 1st/2nd year subject material, more power to ya. I'd probably draw the line at teaching MCAT prep for $20/hr: it's decent money, but the subject material isn't helpful anymore.

With respect to having a financial obligation beyond COA, such as a mortgage you can't offload, I can't imagine that $8/hr is a better deal than even a pricey private loan. Lenders are delighted to throw money at med students, even with scary debt/income ratios. A school like Nova, where you can add a year as an OPP fellow to pay for your 3rd/4th year tuition, would be perfect in such a scenario - you can pay off private debt with your 3rd/4th year COA before the private debt starts to hurt you.

Where's Obnoxious Dad? I'd love to hear his input on this.

ShyRem · Jan 20, 2008

I would agree. Med school is more than a full-time job for most folks. Making money in second year as an OPP TA or tutor for various MSI classes is extra money - not work study.

But I think expecting students to work during the school year to help pay for med school is a bit outrageous. Summers? Breaks? That's not work-study.

spazzz · Jan 20, 2008

from what i was told at touro, work study basically comprises of sitting on your butt and doing your homework anyways. much like college work study

EEL08 · Jan 20, 2008

ShyRem said:
I would agree. Med school is more than a full-time job for most folks. Making money in second year as an OPP TA or tutor for various MSI classes is extra money - not work study.

But I think expecting students to work during the school year to help pay for med school is a bit outrageous. Summers? Breaks? That's not work-study.

It may not be work-study in terms of being in school while working but it's still work-study in terms of how the position is being financed.

DrMidlife · Jan 20, 2008

EEL08 said:
It may not be work-study in terms of being in school while working but it's still work-study in terms of how the position is being financed.

I hope that you'd look for work that pays better than $8/hr, if you have full time availability during breaks. If you're going to give up your husband during breaks, don't give him away for cheap. FWIW, assuming you're not both in med school next year, which I hope you are.

EEL08 · Jan 20, 2008

DrMidlife said:
I hope that you'd look for work that pays better than $8/hr, if you have full time availability during breaks. If you're going to give up your husband during breaks, don't give him away for cheap. FWIW, assuming you're not both in med school next year, which I hope you are.

I definitely will not work during med school. He already went through trying to work almost full-time during med school which is why he will be matriculating again this fall. He's mainly interested in find a job over the summer (whether work-study or not) that would involve participating in research in some way. I was just pointing out that he was told you could do work-study during breaks and over the summer, not necessarily that's what he plans on doing. And I really hope we're both in med school next year too. 😉

Obnoxious Dad · Jan 20, 2008

In the long run the best things to do from an economic perspective are to live cheaply and to get good grades to get the best residency possible.

Working some $8 an hour job in med school is a waste of time. You might end up driving to the job, which costs money, and certainly paying social security taxes.

I would advise all of you to live like a monk while you're in med school.

DrMidlife · Jan 20, 2008

Thanks O-Dad!

Syncope82 · Jan 21, 2008

I believe medical school is a time to learn as much as possible about medicine in the little time that you have. you owe it to yourself and you owe it to the patient to become the best possible dr.

Therefore, working during med school is a ridiculous idea. The government recognizes this and that is why they give you all these loans to cover literally 125% of the costs. This means you can pay all of your bills (as long as you live conservatively) while in school.

Schools that keep sending out mass mailings, especially targeted at professional students should be discouraged

of course..this is all IMO

osli · Jan 21, 2008

I'm in my second year, and have worked since the first day. I do consulting engineering, and have the luxury of working from home, but still put in an average of 15 hours or so per week. My grades probably don't suffer... I don't study anything like the suggested "8 hours per day" but then I wouldn't even if I weren't working, married, a dad, etc. I'd probably just waste that time... so I might as well get paid well instead.

KateGia · Jan 21, 2008

DrMidlife said:
I allege that any med school that claims work study to be a form of financial aid is on crack. I further allege that a med school that allows or encourages students to have jobs during school is irresponsible.

A student who has done an SMP, or worked as a nurse or PA or researcher before med school, is likely an exception to this allegation. Furthermore, med students in this category can do much better, in terms of wages and benefits, than work study opportunities.

I allege that med school is a 60 to 80 hr/wk job. We'll probably have ~25 hours a week of scheduled lecture/lab/etc. We'll realistically need 8-10 hours per day of outside study. I allege that using up the rest of the week working is a poor use of time. I allege that socializing, exercising, volunteering, and otherwise maintaining life balance are FAR more important than making a bit of money to offset debt. A med student who is under pressure from parents or the school to earn a chump wage is being abused.

Work study means $8/hr to $15/hr, for 10-20 hours/wk. Good luck finding a work study position that is any more appropriate to your education than a premed extra-curricular. The money coming in would be on the order of $5k to $10k per year, for at most the first two years. That income for up to two years is a VERY EXPENSIVE $10k to $20k offset to our eventual debt burden.

I allege that prioritizing a low-paying part time job against almost any other use of that time is a ridiculous mistake.

Discuss.

I can't speak for all medical schools, but at NYCOM, most of the work study positions consist of sitting in a quiet room (library, study room, unused gym) and studying while you make sure no one burns the place down or something, and that everyone present has a NYCOM id on. Only students who don't take out max loans qualify for work study. Basically you're getting the same money you would get if you took out loans (maybe a little more, i don't do it), but you don't have to pay it back later, instead you "work" for it now.

I don't know why you are so worked up about it. No one is forced to do workstudy. It's just an option for people who would like to take out a little bit less loans.

DrMidlife · Jan 21, 2008

KateGia said:
I don't know why you are so worked up about it. No one is forced to do workstudy. It's just an option for people who would like to take out a little bit less loans.

Yes, I'm really worked up about it.

The financial aid officer, at a recent interview, listed work-study positions, paying $8/hr, not at all of the "sit and study" variety, requiring 15-20 hrs/wk, as a legitimate form of financial aid. There were quite a few parents there. This financial aid officer also presented wrong information about military and NHSC aid. This is a school that has a COA of $65k/yr, with heavy, heavy emphasis on community health (so good luck paying back $200k+ in loans). When this school's first set of board scores comes out, I think they'll change their story.

At a previous interview, at a $50k/yr COA school, the financial aid officer presented correct, fact-checked info, was completely hard core about getting students to keep their loans down ("tunafish, people"), and was equally hard core about not wanting students to work. This school showed a powerful interest in student success, across the board.

At my 2 other interviews, MD and DO, work study was mentioned as "a bad idea, you need to study and have a life."

So this thread is an attempt to provide a variety of opinions (mine's just the stupid strong one) about work study, to prevent these young folks and their parents from blindly following a school's advice.

Syncope82 · Jan 22, 2008

DrMidlife said:
YThis is a school that has a COA of $65k/yr, with heavy, heavy emphasis on community health (so good luck paying back $200k+ in loans). When this school's first set of board scores comes out, I think they'll change their story.

may i ask what school this is? thanks

DrMidlife · Jan 22, 2008

Syncope82 said:
may i ask what school this is? thanks

PM'ed.

Instatewaiter · Jan 22, 2008

DrMidlife said:
Work study means $8/hr to $15/hr, for 10-20 hours/wk. Good luck finding a work study position that is any more appropriate to your education than a premed extra-curricular. The money coming in would be on the order of $5k to $10k per year, for at most the first two years. That income for up to two years is a VERY EXPENSIVE $10k to $20k offset to our eventual debt burden.

Good lord, does that 65K/yr include cost of living+ tuition or just tuition?

I couldn't imagine working somewhere you actually have to do work during med school. The time commitment is just too great without sacrificing my sanity. At my school we have a few cool programs for work study though.

The first is IT people. Since most of our lighting, projection, sound system is all computerized and the professors sometimes dont know how to operate it, these students come down and press the right button to dim the lights and turn on the microphone. They get trained for a day or so before school starts and get paid a bit over $5 per lecture hour. So they get paid over $100/week to go to class. That's a pretty sweet deal.

We also have the normal library attendants who just sit there and study. They get paid around minimum wage but dont actually have to do anything. It's like having a required study hall.

DrMidlife · Jan 22, 2008

Instatewaiter said:
Good lord, does that 65K/yr include cost of living+ tuition or just tuition?

That's COA. Tuition alone is $35k.

DocRawk · Jan 22, 2008

I'll likely work 10 hrs/week during med school. I wouldn't bother if it were for $10-15/hr, but I make $25-30/hr as a private guitar teacher. That's $13-16k/year, and it cuts my loan amounts by around 30% for the first couple years. Considering that you pay the most interest on the loans for your first two years, it'll save me considerable amounts of money.😀

Lokhtar · Jan 22, 2008

Same. I can work at home, and if I can do 10 hours a week, I can make $40-$45 per hour 10x4x12 = ~$20k. Of course, I am keeping an open mind, and I may not be able to work at all. I'll have to see in the first month or so if I can spare 10 hours a week working from home (I'm a software engineer).

JellyJelly · Jan 24, 2008

I might do some SAT/MCAT tutoring 10 or so hours a week if there is a demand for it in the area.

Green6936 · Jan 24, 2008

What do you guys consider living "conservatively"? Say, costs per month...

KateGia · Jan 24, 2008

Green6936 said:
What do you guys consider living "conservatively"? Say, costs per month...

$1500-$1800 is definitely doable. Live with roommates. A lot of people think that living alone is better and if you find an apt for "only 800" or something, it's not that much more, but you forget that when you live with roommates, you also are splitting the utilities, which can be A LOT. I mean, you HAVE to have internet, and you're most likely going to want cable... that alone is an extra $100 (but if you have 2 roommates, only $33). Also, making your own food is way cheaper. I try to buy stuff that can be frozen, or I cook like 4 lbs of chicken and freeze it in serving sizes, so i can bring it to school and just heat it up. Stuff like that helps.

These #s are for the Long Island area, obviously rents are lower in other places, and it is reasonable to live on a much lower budget. I don't think internet/cable prices vary too much though.

MossPoh · Jan 26, 2008

Well, if you had the gig I had last year as a "TA" then it is compatible. I spend maybe 2 hours a week "working" and got paid for 20 hours of work at 14 dollars an hour.

While I was "working", I also did homework.

Doctor Bagel · Jan 27, 2008

My school doesn't have work study as an option, so I guess they agree with you. The one school I came across that did had just little health-care related projects you could participate in irregularly and earn some extra money. It wasn't a set part of a financial aid award.

That being said, I do know people who work, and they seem to pull it off. These people all have a strong background in the subjects we're studying, and I'm sure their grades have sacrificed somewhat. They also have jobs that don't have set schedules.

dial1010usa · Jun 4, 2018

How does it work though? The financial award shows certain $$ awarded for federal work study and I am little confuse. Helping school in summer time and next year SMP tutoring.

Work study is incompatible with med school: discuss

has an opinion

Full Member

Full Member

The Road Less Traveled

Grand Master

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

has an opinion

I need more coffee.

Full Member

Full Member

has an opinion

Full Member

Full Member

has an opinion

Full Member

Senior Member

OMS-III

has an opinion

Full Member

has an opinion

But... there's a troponin

has an opinion

Full Member

Dreaming about the lions

Full Member

New Member

OMS-III

Textures intrigue me

so cheap and juicy

Full Member

Similar threads