What employment possibilities are there for doctors (I'm an FMG) who ..........

I would think your best bet would be some type of research or clinical work that would improve your chances for the following year. You could do the work at a place you might match next year. Don't forget the scramble and the post scramble though. You might pick up a position even in June.

How about applying to a PA school. I know one guy who got some credit and entered as an advance standing student. Took him 2 years to get his PA.

Other options:

-re-applying to med school (DO).

-Going to graduate school for a MS or PhD.

-Dental or Podiatry school (you still have some time left, I think)

-Work as a medical assistant.

-Work as a Lab Tech. (not Med. Tech.)

-Join the Army/Airforce and they will find something medical to put you in.

I got a job over the summer working as an exam doctor in an anesthesiologist/interventional pain medical doctors office doing exams, operating the C-arm on his radiology unit and some other things : $18 an hour.

Here is a cut and paste about transferring from a Caribbean school to USA school. I did not keep the link, and cannot vouch for its accurancy:

It changes. Coming from the Caribbean, you are part of an institution that is outside of the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME). Almost all the medical schools in the US and Canada are LCME-accredited and this is the requirement to move between them as a transfer. Few schools elect to consider non-LCME students. To find out which schools accept non-LCME students, I went to the AAMC’s website for transfer policies by school. I asked to search by policy then narrowed my search by selecting ALL schools in ALL regions and selecting all the boxes accept for the first four (LCME-accredited applicant, Osteopathic applicant, Dental applicant, Oral and Facial surgeon applicant). This generated a list of 54 institutions accepting transfers into the second year and 73 accepting applicants into the third year. There is some overlap.
I then sat down and called every single institution to ask about their transfer policy for non-LCME students. This is important to do if you are serious about transferring and this level of effort will separate you from your peers. You will find out before applying if a school that has always accepted transfers has recently changed its policy, has no availability this year due to an oversubscribed first year class, or has recently begun to accept transfers. There have been cases where the school said “no” over the phone, the student applied anyway and was then offered an interview. The determined student will always have an advantage over the complacent student. Decide which one you are going to be and then plan accordingly. The programs that I contacted told me that the information on this site concerning number of available spots is inaccurate, so do not let a “0 spaces available” stop you from inquiring. Plus, it builds character.
There are several schools that often have spaces available nd are well known to those that frequent the discussion boards. These school are:
1.Drexel University
2.George Washington
3.New York Medical College
4.Northeastern Ohio University College of Medicine (NEOUCOM)
5.SUNY Upstate
6.Tulane University
7.University of Medicine and Dentistry, New Jersey (UMDNJ)
In addition to this list, I was able to confirm that eight other schools would accept non-LCME applicants. I do not feel like I have given too much away with this list as it is available everywhere, but if you are willing to search for the remaining schools than you deserve to be separated from others for your effort. Do not forget to call the medical schools in the state where you have residence. Several state schools do not accept non-LCME applicants but do accept applicants that are residents of the state regardless of school affiliation.
As the information begins to pile, it is a good idea to remain organized. Open a spreadsheet with a space for the school, its application deadline, fee, email contact, phone number, application cost, number of required recommendations from undergraduate and medical faculty, required transcripts, etc. Happy hunting.

Danica said:

What employment possibilities are there for doctors (I'm an FMG) who do not match and therefore don't have a residency?

Suggestions Please.
Preferably in some area that I can utilize my medical knowledge.

Does anyone have contacts that have a decent job?
What type of work?

Click to expand...

Poison Control Center?

There is a program at one of the DO schools that is accelerated (three years) for holders of international MDs. Also what about Nurse Practitioner or Midwife, or you could become a CRNA in a coupla years. Or just go get your MBA.

NYCOM has a program for IMGs

http://iris.nyit.edu/nycom/Admissions_EPP_Program.htm

You can:
-get a job with an organization like AHA or the AMA or the cancer society
-get a job with a pharmaceutical company
-look up jobs with companies like Johnson and Johnson, etc..

get creative, there are lots of things you can do with your degree- that don't include making lattes.

I agree with many of the previous posters about alternatives to clinical medicine, but I think the original post begs the question: What about your application is so unappealing that no PD will accept you for a match? Bad scores? Bad evals? Felony conviction? I say this because although there are many non-clinical jobs an MD can perform, as an interviewer I would want to know why someone didn't complete a residency.

In all seriousness, there seem to be so many unfilled primary care spots after the match, albeit in geographically less than desireable areas. As long as your weren't particular and were interested in clinical training, I think you could match at some program somewhere.

HomerSD said:

I agree with many of the previous posters about alternatives to clinical medicine, but I think the original post begs the question: What about your application is so unappealing that no PD will accept you for a match? Bad scores? Bad evals? Felony conviction? I say this because although there are many non-clinical jobs an MD can perform, as an interviewer I would want to know why someone didn't complete a residency.

In all seriousness, there seem to be so many unfilled primary care spots after the match, albeit in geographically less than desireable areas. As long as your weren't particular and were interested in clinical training, I think you could match at some program somewhere.

Click to expand...

This might have been true in 2000 or 1999 when the caps were just placed. Now it's not. NRMP shows an excess of 7430 active applicants more than the total number of positions. Not ever matching is a reality especially for low scorers with repeat attempts. I wish the old schoolers would stop claiming primary care is open for everyone. Primary care is open for some people. I didn't even count the non-active applicants that become later active in the year when they get their passing scores.

I empathize with your situation. It's ridiculous to me that med grads who don't do residencies can't do much with their degree. They can't even get a job as a midlevel.

This problem will only worsen in the future. Allo schools have increased their class sizes by 20% and more MD and DO schools are opening; this brings the total increase closer to 30% but there has not been an increase in residency spots. This means that not only FMG and IMG may not get residencies in the future but also med grads from American MD and DO schools.

Med grads should be allowed to compete with PA's or NP's for midlevel positions or a new position needs to be created to allow med grads who don't match to work so they can pay off their freaking debt.

You could also work in the medical device industry, especially if you received a lot of clinical training back in your home country. These companies might want someone with clinical experiences and we all know USMD won't go there.

One of my friends was a trained orthopod in China. After coming to USA, he tried to study for step 1 and it was just too hard due to age/language. Long story short, meditronics hired him. He is making as much as a FP right from the beginning. No residency training, no USMLE, working 9-5, and well respected in the company due to his MD/clinical background.

MD degree without going through residency is virtually useless. You wouldn't even be allowed to wipe geri A$$e$ without being required to go through some nursing assistant program. You could always go work for Hotdog on a Stick though:

Danica said:

A little passive-aggressive aren't we?
If you read the original post you would have noted that I said I am an IMG.
So what evals are you talking about?
Bad scores? Nope
Felony conviction? Nope
I would want to know why someone didn't complete a residency. I'm an IMG who never got one! Luck of the draw.

Click to expand...

While I agree that the poster was a bit on the curt side, it isn't so suprising that we would ask WHY you think you didn't match. I hope you have asked yourself the same question because it may NOT be "luck of the draw" in many cases.

In regards to evals, he is speaking about your LORs. Are you absolutely sure they support your application and have not harmed it?

Do you have LORs from US physicians? USCE? Did you take Step 2 before you applied? Do you have ECFMG certification?

The last sentence is in reference to a potential employer who will ask you why you didn't do a residency. This is a fair question and you should be prepared to answer it. Although there are certainly more applicants than positions and its getting tougher every year, anyone who doesn't match better be asking themselves why and be able to answer the question without getting upset or blaming others or just shrugging their shoulders and saying "luck of the draw", IMHO.

Danica said:

USCE: 2 externships with very positive supporting LORs.
ECFMG certified: Steps 1, 2ck and cs, all first attempt with good scores.
I really believe that my graduation year (10+ years) is the determining factor and is the reason I say this is the last time I will participate since I can't change that and so many programs have a graduation date cutoff.

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That is almost certainly it. Further fuel for the argument that your problem matching is not "luck of the draw" but rather simply coming up against requirements that programs set that you cannot meet.

I hope you come up with some way to utilize your medical training. Best of luck to you.

Danica said:

USCE: 2 externships with very positive supporting LORs.
ECFMG certified: Steps 1, 2ck and cs, all first attempt with good scores.
I really believe that my graduation year (10+ years) is the determining factor and is the reason I say this is the last time I will participate since I can't change that and so many programs have a graduation date cutoff.

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The plot thickens...

I wish you would have contributed this information earlier. Most programs have a cut-off of 4-5 years.

Either way good luck in whatever you do.

Danica said:

I think it would be beneficial if ECFMG informed Step applicants when they first apply to take a step that the majority of programs prefer applicants less than 5 years post grad so that prospective applicants could make an informed decision whether to invest the time and money in taking the steps and gamble with getting a residency. Nowhere on ECFMG website or the materials they send do they mention "Graduation date cutoff".

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That is not the responsibility of ECFMG. It is there to assess "the readiness of international medical graduates to enter residency or fellowship programs in the United States" and that means passing the licensing exams and nothing else.

skypilot said:

There is a program at one of the DO schools that is accelerated (three years) for holders of international MDs. Also what about Nurse Practitioner or Midwife, or you could become a CRNA in a coupla years. Or just go get your MBA.

Click to expand...

NYCOM's Émigré Physician Program is a four year program

Danica said:

When I started taking the USMLE steps I had no idea that there was such a thing as a graduation date cutoff.
It was only when I started researching individual programs for the match that I discovered it, and a major shock it was.

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How come it's been 10+ years since you graduated? What did you do after graduation?

It shouldn't be a shock that programs have time requirements. After all, if I was a PD, I would expect someone that's been out of med school for 10+ years to not remember much or be very "rusty" when it came to H&Ps, differentials, etc.

If you think about it, in the past 10 years most textbooks have undergone revisions, several algorithms for patient care have been revised and revamped (Pap smear requirements, updated vaccination schedules, asthma treatment, etc.) and several new therapies have been created (and many have been abandoned). Someone that hasn't been in medicine for 10+ years is probably quite behind in up-to-date standards of care and it would be very difficult to convince someone otherwise.

Danica said:

I guess your personal physician graduated yesterday!

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This is a red herring. Programs want someone with recent medical training because it is more likely that you will pass Step 3, be an effective resident and practice medicine in standard of care fashion.

Our personal physicians, regardless of when they graduated, are required to do so many units of CMEs per year. Most state licenses have a requirement, as do some hospital medical staff privileges. So they are obligated to keep updated in their practices...many boards also have recertification requirements as well.

superoxide said:

That is not the responsibility of ECFMG. It is there to assess "the readiness of international medical graduates to enter residency or fellowship programs in the United States" and that means passing the licensing exams and nothing else.

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Agreed...its not the job of ECFMG. You could make a case that the NRMP should inform users but its also not their job to comment on specific requirements of programs outside of the match requirements.

Its one of the reasons web sites like SDN have cropped up...there isn't as much information out there, or at least not in a readily accesible format.

Danica said:

Thank you all for your suggestions.

Click to expand...

I'm curious. Were you an attending in the country from where you graduated med school? I was thinking that could be the reason that you are applying for residency in the US 10 years post-graduation.

TaiShan said:

You could also work in the medical device industry, especially if you received a lot of clinical training back in your home country. These companies might want someone with clinical experiences and we all know USMD won't go there.

One of my friends was a trained orthopod in China. After coming to USA, he tried to study for step 1 and it was just too hard due to age/language. Long story short, meditronics hired him. He is making as much as a FP right from the beginning. No residency training, no USMLE, working 9-5, and well respected in the company due to his MD/clinical background.

Click to expand...

lordy that sounds appealing right about now. (i'm a $hit filter intern about ready to lose my mind.)

Danica said:

I guess your personal physician graduated yesterday!

Click to expand...

You're being quite defensive and frankly rude. We're trying to help you here.

No, my personal physician did not graduate yesterday, but she is required to keep up with CME (Continuing Medical Education) in order to maintain her license to practice medicine. Drug companies e-mail/mail/fax her information on a daily basis on new drugs, recalls, new FDA-mandated warnings, and more. She communicates with other physicians and specialists daily while at the hospital, and she receives input from other doctors via formal and informal consults.

A physician with 10+ years of experience practicing medicine is much different than someone who graduated from med school 10+ years and hasn't done anything clinical, much less a residency.

Good luck to you. I'm done here.

There are 7340+ active applicants not matching.. you can't sit there and make an excuse on each of their applications for why they didn't match. Some people just don't match, no ifs ands or buts. 7340 of 28k active applicants is 1 out of 4, so don't start telling me 1 out of 4 people got problems.

Even if you take into account the ones that withdrew and didnt rank (yes those probably got problems) then it's 1 out of 5 (7k of 35k). Matching is taken for granted.... just like passing the boards is taken for granted.. if you pass then no big deal.. weren't you expected to pass? but if you fail.. everyone in the world knows about it and it's a huge thing.

Faebinder said:

There are 7340+ active applicants not matching.. you can't sit there and make an excuse on each of their applications for why they didn't match. Some people just don't match, no ifs ands or buts. 7340 of 28k active applicants is 1 out of 4, so don't start telling me 1 out of 4 people got problems.

Even if you take into account the ones that withdrew and didnt rank (yes those probably got problems) then it's 1 out of 5 (7k of 35k). Matching is taken for granted.... just like passing the boards is taken for granted.. if you pass then no big deal.. weren't you expected to pass? but if you fail.. everyone in the world knows about it and it's a huge thing.

Click to expand...

I don't think we are...the OP has admitted that its been 10 years since she graduated from medical school and many programs have a limit on how many years out you can be for them to evaluate your application.

Seems to me that SHE at least does have an "excuse" why she didn't match.

Taurus said:

Med grads should be allowed to compete with PA's or NP's for midlevel positions or a new position needs to be created to allow med grads who don't match to work so they can pay off their freaking debt.

Click to expand...

According to David Carpenter, PA-C, med school grads are not qualified to work as PAs because they "arent trained to work under supervision."

Faebinder said:

This might have been true in 2000 or 1999 when the caps were just placed. Now it's not. NRMP shows an excess of 7430 active applicants more than the total number of positions. Not ever matching is a reality especially for low scorers with repeat attempts. I wish the old schoolers would stop claiming primary care is open for everyone. Primary care is open for some people. I didn't even count the non-active applicants that become later active in the year when they get their passing scores.

Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the excess of 7430 positions more than the available positions is for all residencies, and not only exclusive to primary care. In Fam Med for match year 2007; out of a total of 2603 open positions, only 2299 filled (88% fill rate); page 29 of the NRMP report. That's almost 300 Fam Med positions that remained open last year. 46% of the filled positions in Fam Med went to IMGs, compared to 42% to US graduates.

This is not to say it isn't difficult for IMGs to match, who have about a 50% non-match rate overall. But I would argue that the difficulty in matching is not the availability of spots, but applications with problems (300 open positions after the match in Fam Med seems like relatively large number). Assuming the OP is an US IMG, those 300 spots would represent ~1/3 of the 1300 unmatched US IMG applicants last year.

The greater than 5 year duration since graduation the OP disclosed makes the above moot. But looking at the PGY-1 Prelim surg match data, only 62% of spots are filled, leaving approximately 700 spots open. If the OP could find a program that wasn't so anal about his/her graduation date, good clinical letters and evals from a PGY-1 year would go a long way to getting a clinical residency.

HomerSD said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the excess of 7430 positions more than the available positions is for all residencies, and not only exclusive to primary care. In Fam Med for match year 2007; out of a total of 2603 open positions, only 2299 filled (88% fill rate); page 29 of the NRMP report. That's almost 300 Fam Med positions that remained open last year. 46% of the filled positions in Fam Med went to IMGs, compared to 42% to US graduates.

This is not to say it isn't difficult for IMGs to match, who have about a 50% non-match rate overall. But I would argue that the difficulty in matching is not the availability of spots, but applications with problems (300 open positions after the match in Fam Med seems like relatively large number). Assuming the OP is an US IMG, those 300 spots would represent ~1/3 of the 1300 unmatched US IMG applicants last year.

The greater than 5 year duration since graduation the OP disclosed makes the above moot. But looking at the PGY-1 Prelim surg match data, only 62% of spots are filled, leaving approximately 700 spots open. If the OP could find a program that wasn't so anal about his/her graduation date, good clinical letters and evals from a PGY-1 year would go a long way to getting a clinical residency.

Click to expand...

It seems that you are under the impression that the umatched ~700 US seniors and the ~1000 US graduates and the ~1000 DOs .... all would rather sit for a year instead of taking some of those 300 FM positions and whatever are left over Prelim Surg and Prelim IM.

I found some programs (psychiatry, preventive medicine) that told me (I am a Canadian graduate) that 10+ years out of graduation is OK.

I am wondering if there are ways of overcoming the resistance of other programs who say it is not OK?

If you can tailor your personal statement to their program and perhaps show how you are a stellar super star in some way, can you not overcome this problem?

Faebinder said:

This might have been true in 2000 or 1999 when the caps were just placed. Now it's not. NRMP shows an excess of 7430 active applicants more than the total number of positions. Not ever matching is a reality especially for low scorers with repeat attempts. I wish the old schoolers would stop claiming primary care is open for everyone. Primary care is open for some people. I didn't even count the non-active applicants that become later active in the year when they get their passing scores.

Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Some people STILL think that scrambling/getting into the 100+ FM and Prelim Surgery spots that are left after the match is "easy" and not a big deal. These people are WRONG.

Getting into ANY (A-N-Y) residency is getting more and more competetive every year. The number of applicants applying to residencies (especially FMGs) is increasing every year.

Faebinder said:

It seems that you are under the impression that the umatched ~700 US seniors and the ~1000 US graduates and the ~1000 DOs .... all would rather sit for a year instead of taking some of those 300 FM positions and whatever are left over Prelim Surg and Prelim IM.

Click to expand...

I made no such statement. I clearly said that the chances for an IMG to match are quite low (50% in my last post) and it is not easy at all for them to match. I don't know where you got the idea that I thought unmatched IMGs would not be glad to take these spots. If you read my post, it is not only an issue with spot availability (which you have argued), but also with PDs who find many IMG applications with serious deficiencies. The 300 Fam Med spots and 500+ PGY1 Surgery spots remain open for exactly these reasons. To quote overall applicant numbers and overall positions in the match in general is overlooking some genuine openings in some primary care specialities. These spots are not necessarily easy for IMGs to match into, but they are there.

"Danica" seem's to usually have drama on her threads.
See his/her other posts. Same back and forth
argumentative banter in all his/her threads.

Also particular vulgar and innapropriate nature

"Honey being off from work and wanting to
go muff diving".

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Cleary Danica has issues:
recently posted by her/him in another forum, claiming to have matched.

I think we all know why this peson is not a resident... its called a personality disorder...

Yesterday, 11:29 AM #9
Danica
Hit the road Jack


Join Date: May 2007
Location: Behind the wheel of my car
Posts: 77

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did I match? yes I did.

What's my point? your story doesn't gel!

Supposedly a US IMG
Supposedly an Attending??
Really?? where?
You hadn't even completed USMLE steps, so we know you were not and are not working in the US.

Best qualified?? I remember one of your previous post where you were practicing you pitiful explanation about the death of BOTH your grandparents as an excuse for your CK failure.


We can continue this another time but,
my honey is off today
and I'm going muff diving.
You know what they say "Eat your Honey"
Ciao Bella

Just a reminder that bashing another user is a violation of the SDN TOS, even if you feel they deserve it.

Tis better to ignore trolls (than revive 6 week old threads).

I wonder if it would be possible for the OP to return to his/her home country to practice

Agree, maybe it's the best option left for her.