Obama the Socialist

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BLADEMDA

BLADEMDA

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Here is what an Obama win means in economic terms. It will have a great impact on many of you as well. Even if Obama leaves Medicine "untouched" which is highly doubtful here is what Obama economics does to real income:

Currently, top bracket (2008 numbers) is 35% for married filers. This starts at $357,700. The 33% bracket is $250-357,700. So, if we use a W-2 number of $500,000 for arguments sake here is what Obama proposes.

All income above $250,000 is taxed at 44% plus Social Security does not "max out." This translates into 50% taxes on all income earned over $250,000. I assume Obama leaves the lower brackets alone but my bet is that he increases them as well because he views the "middle class" as around $80,000.

Thus, a person earning $500,000 a year sees a $43,054 annual increase in his/her taxes under Obama. This increase is on top of the approximately $150,000 per year he/she is already paying under the Bush administration. Thus take home pay is reduced significantly.

Examine the numbers:

Bush Tax 2008 take home pay on $500,000= $350,000
Obama Tax 2011 take home pay on $500,000= $306,946


Things may get even worse because Obama will need to raise even more money. Thus, I suspect lower income brackets will increase as well so take home pay would be below $300,000. Welcome to Socialism and income redistribution.

Now, we need to move to the stock market and capital gains. Obama plans on increasing capital gains rate significantly. This means more taxes for the working people as mutual funds or stock sales generate a significant amount of capital gains. Thus, Obamaeconomics is a double whammy (maybe a triple for Medicine depending on his medicaid) as he hits you on your wages and your investments.

I have started my McCain and RNC contributions. Even though the odds are against a McCain win Obama Economics are just plain unfair.

After years of hard work in Residency then a short partnership track you guys are faced with a Socialist who wants to steal your money coming and going.

Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.
 
Hey,

I don't blame those of you for not "caring" right now about Obama and his Socialist plan for taxes plus Investments. However, those of us working in the real world all week plus nights and weekends don't consider ourselves rich; we understand how his tax plan will KILL incentive to work and invest in this Country.

By hitting the upper middle class at both ends (earning and investing) Obama is going to have some real long terms effects on the economy and stock market. Yes, those earning in the $250-600,000 range are the upper middle class. They make enough to live well but not enough to quit working and play golf all day or own a lear jet/ 80 foot yacht. I refer to them as upper middle class and the socialists call them the working rich; unfortunately, this is the group that will feel the most pain from an Obama administration.

Most of you will fall into that group as well. After all your years of College, Medical School and then Residency BOHICA!
 
"mama sez life is like a box of chocolates. ya never know what ya gonna get."

The guy, that is obama, is a pure socialist. His argument on raising taxes on upper middle to upper class is this. "They don't need the money." Who is HE to decide where my hard earned money should be spent.

Lets be honest. The American public is gullible and will believe this politician that he is for "real change and work in a bipartisan manner." I guess the public forgot about his stint in illinois and the senate. He has never reached across the fence to work on anything important to both parties. Great records he has accumulated to run for office. Might as well dress up John kerry as a "less pompous, less arrogant jerk" and you have Obama. I have believed this from the beginning. This is a popularity contest (like high school politics) and sen obama seems to be the most popular. But my vote will go for Mccain.

On the positive side, we have Ralph Nader running again. He may need some help putting his name on ballots in some of these highly contested states like ohio, florida, etc. Lets help our boy out.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Hey,

I don't blame those of you for not "caring" right now about Obama and his Socialist plan for taxes plus Investments. However, those of us working in the real world all week plus nights and weekends don't consider ourselves rich; we understand how his tax plan will KILL incentive to work and invest in this Country.

By hitting the upper middle class at both ends (earning and investing) Obama is going to have some real long terms effects on the economy and stock market. Yes, those earning in the $250-600,000 range are the upper middle class. They make enough to live well but not enough to quit working and play golf all day or own a lear jet/ 80 foot yacht. I refer to them as upper middle class and the socialists call them the working rich; unfortunately, this is the group that will feel the most pain from an Obama administration.

Most of you will fall into that group as well. After all your years of College, Medical School and then Residency BOHICA!
Click to expand...

thank you for these posts, Blade. Too many of my peers (who have never yet worked for a substantial paycheck yet and many of whom benefit from government programs such as Medicaid for their children) simply do not understand what it will feel like to work half of your day for the government. I hope that reality will sink in soon or else in 5 years or so I think many of them are going to really regret their Obama vote...
 
From 2000 Census data....only 1 in 10 households make more than 100,000 per year.

We (folks who make half a million a year) are going to have a difficult time convincing the majority of the population that we shouldn't have to pay more taxes.......

Not that I want to pay more.

Blade, you're right....but what are you going to say to the 9 out of 10 households who make less than 1/5 of what you make?
 
I am going to work my arse off to help those who don't work their arses off......I am all about helping those in need, but there needs to be, but likely will never happen, an incentive for those who live off the government to work and make ends meet like a lot of Americans out there.....It is just a never ending cycle and we see it every day.....i.e. couple of weeks ago, our IM team had a 38yo AIDs, CD4 -4 come in fresh off Coke binge with PCP pneumonia, hasn't been taking her free HAART since October......she comes in gets worked up and stays in hospital for 3 days on government tab.....gets tuned up and discharged back out.....only to come back a couple weeks later for the same problem again on government tab...a never ending cycle.....point being she has no incentive to work, take care of herself...she has a free ride...

Meanwhile, other Americans, are out there struggling to make ends meet are footing these bills everyday...its a never ending cycle

like i said, it plain sucks and the system is all jacked up
 
Another thing to consider is the fact that if you ever decide to have kids, then universities will not offer them any need-based financial aid, since you are "too rich" to need it. This, coupled with the fact that the cost of college tuition continues to outpace inflation, means even more of a financial burden (with no consideration of the many years of foregone income).
 
You can send a big "middle finger" to Obama by reducing your work hours, serving up a "concierge" medical practice, and refusing any medicare/medicaid patients.

It's not so much advice as it is just common sense. It really doesn't make sense to work that additional hour when the compensation for it drops off. Work part-time, make $200,000, and just do other, more meaningful and rewarding things in your free time. Tax hikes ultimately hurt the country, and you can be sure as **** that once taxes get hiked, access to physicians is going to drop off significantly.


Oh, and it really needs to be stressed that Obama is in favor of decreasing payments to physicians through Medicare. Another reason to say "f you" to Obama by refusing Medicare.
 
this makes no sense. your example shows you are making half a million dollars. I am not saying that you should be taxed more, but come on. Half a MILLION dollars and complaining.
And why is it that everybody keeps talking about how much they work. "I work this many hours a week" or "I work so hard". I have pulled in way over 80 hours a week as a security guard. I have been a labourer and I made maybe 27,000 a year. You act like there are not other people in this world who work hard,your argument is flawed. You work a lot and get paid well for it.
My, main point as a obama supporter is that we are near a recession, who will foot your bill if people have no money. Economies survive because of the middle class not the upper. Give him a chance. Anything is better than bush.
side note: I actually like John Mccain so if obama doesn't win I will still be happy.
 
Welcome back Blade.

I'm curious. Is it just that you have different ideas about how we can solve problems like our impending recession, lack of universal health care, climate change, the Iraq war, the national debt, or that you just don't care enough about theses issues to sacrifice a little of your precious top 1% income?

If you have other ideas that will definitely work and not require raising taxes, please- by all means, run for congress!!
 
BLADEMDA said:
However, those of us working in the real world all week plus nights and weekends don't consider ourselves rich
Click to expand...
If you gross anywhere near $500k a year yet still call yourself "upper-middle class," you have completely lost your grip on reality. Setting aside for a moment all the legitimate arguments over tax policy, how to fix healthcare, etc., that is just a crazy statement.
 
The bottom line is that we need to shore up our spending. That's why it may be necessary to raise taxes. Bush has spent us into dire straights. Now we have to deal with it and we'll probably see tax hikes. If we DON'T increase taxes then it's just putting off the inevitable UNLESS we cut spending WAY back. That's why I'm so damn bearish on things.......😡
 
I fully expected the "reaction" to my thread would not be overly sympathetic.
After all, who cares about the upper middle class? The problem is that this Group will feel the Obama administration the hardest. Remember, even after working your "arse" off to earn that $500,000 you won't see the first $200,000 of that plus your State may get another 7%. Even the Socialist European Countries are not much worse than Obama USA. With those kinds of taxes where is free college and medical school? Where is "universal" health care?

Huckabee was dead on with his fair tax proposal. So much of the real rich avoid taxes via corporate right offs. You guts have no idea how the real rich avoid taxes. First Obama comes for $250,000 and up Group. Then, when he realizes more money is needed he raises tax on the $100-$250,000 Group.

THe answer is to control spending at the Federal level and stop the waste on all unnecessary projects. State's have to maintain a budget so should Washington.

As for the top 1% of high wage earners I would like to remind you that they pay 90% of all taxes in this Country. People like myself have no way to hide money or "write-off" their corporate yacht and golf club membership.

The true rich don't pay anywhere near 30% income taxes and never will until a Huckabee type tax system is instituted. But, neither party has any interest in a fair tax. Instead, the upper middle class gets hosed again. Too wealthy to avoid the 50% tax but not rich enough to creat the "loopholes" so Obama can't touch them.
 
MedGoatTX said:
If you gross anywhere near $500k a year yet still call yourself "upper-middle class," you have completely lost your grip on reality. Setting aside for a moment all the legitimate arguments over tax policy, how to fix healthcare, etc., that is just a crazy statement.
Click to expand...


Every tried living in L.A, NYC, SanFrancisco, etc. on $275,000 per year? That is what you will have left after Obama taxes plus State tax. That my friend doesn't even make you "upper" middle class in those areas.

Now you need to buy a home, car and pay off those student loans. You won't feel like upper middle class at all.

It gets better. Because you are considered "rich" your kids won't get any "need based" money and your student loans are not deductible. For some of you this is going to be quite a wake-up call.
 
BLADEMDA said:
THe answer is to control spending at the Federal level and stop the waste on all unnecessary projects. State's have to maintain a budget so should Washington.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree. Increasing taxes is one way to solve the problem. This would be another. (I have a feeling it's going to require a combination of both but it would be nice to see unnecessary expenditures curbed first. Say, the war in Iraq.....)
 
The founders NEVER intended a USA where the Federal and State government would take HALF a man's earnings. THat is not the spirit that made this country great. ON top of that, the govt. wants to take more from you for INVESTING in this country. Obama wants 35%-50% on all your capital gains. Why bother taking a risk in the market if the government gets half of all your profits but doesn't allow you to "write-off" your losses (limited to $3,000 per year)?

An Obama administration would be another Jimmy Carter era. Many of you are way too young to remember President Carter and his economic policies.
You are about to get a history lesson that you won't forget.
 
Spot on.

People have zero idea what they are in store for. Problem is, Obama's liberalism far outpaces the wildest of Carter's dreams, and he has the pelosi-reid axis to back him up.

America is in for some real trouble when you combine democrat economic policies with our existing personal spending troubles. Note to Americans: No, you don't deserve to default on your credit spending. No, not everyone deserves a house, it must be earned. No, everyone does not deserve free healthcare, everyone deserves the opportunity to be able to earn the privilege thereof. Our Founders didn't intend for an oppressive, all-powerful nanny state: They fought for every individual to have the freedom to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. This is EARNED, not stolen from the rich and given to the poor.

Sadly, Americans may not realize these lessons until it's way too late. Don't even get me started on the underestimation of islamo-fascism. To quote a dear friend who has fought these bastards in the streets of Mogadishu and mountains of Afghanistan: "Americans have no clue the kind of demons we are facing".

BLADEMDA said:
The founders NEVER intended a USA where the Federal and State government would take HALF a man's earnings. THat is not the spirit that made this country great. ON top of that, the govt. wants to take more from you for INVESTING in this country. Obama wants 35%-50% on all your capital gains. Why bother taking a risk in the market if the government gets half of all your profits but doesn't allow you to "write-off" your losses (limited to $3,000 per year)?

An Obama administration would be another Jimmy Carter era. Many of you are way too young to remember President Carter and his economic policies.
You are about to get a history lesson that you won't forget.
Click to expand...
 
Gravi69 said:
I'd have to agree. Increasing taxes is one way to solve the problem. This would be another. (I have a feeling it's going to require a combination of both but it would be nice to see unnecessary expenditures curbed first. Say, the war in Iraq.....)
Click to expand...

Taxes are high enough if EVERYONE paid them. The rich don't pay anywhere near 30% and never will under the current system. ONly the "upper" middle class gets hosed under the Obama tax system.

Drug dealers, Prostitutes, gamblers pay ZERO taxes. I know many people worth millions (tens of millions) that pay 10% income tax. That is what DEMOCRATIC tax lawyers are for. THese lawyers make the most money from the rich when taxes are high.

The key to any system is to make it FAIR. Our current system is anything but that. Unfortunately, it is about to get worse for upper middle class.
Yes, that means MOST of you.
 
Blade,

How do you define "upper middle class"?

and in your definition, how many % of our population fall into the "upper middle class"?

I would like a frame of reference of what you are referring to.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Taxes are high enough if EVERYONE paid them. The rich don't pay anywhere near 30% and never will under the current system. ONly the "upper" middle class gets hosed under the Obama tax system.

Drug dealers, Prostitutes, gamblers pay ZERO taxes. I know many people worth millions (tens of millions) that pay 10% income tax. That is what DEMOCRATIC tax lawyers are for. THese lawyers make the most money from the rich when taxes are high.

The key to any system is to make it FAIR. Our current system is anything but that. Unfortunately, it is about to get worse for upper middle class.
Yes, that means MOST of you.
Click to expand...

The rich get richer.

The poor get poorer.

And the upper middle class gets hosed.

That's life, right? 😛
 
militarymd said:
Blade,

How do you define "upper middle class"?

and in your definition, how many % of our population fall into the "upper middle class"?

I would like a frame of reference of what you are referring to.
Click to expand...

The politicians don't agree on this and never will. For the Democrats they use $80,000 for the "middle class." For Republicans, they use $150,000 for the "middle" class. THe upper middle class is someone who has get off his "arse" each and every day in order to make a living. If he/she were to stop working for more than a few months then there goes the house, the car, etc.
You my friend are the upper middle class. If you were "rich" like many I know then night and weekend work would only be something found in your nightmares.

The rich work because they want to and not because they have to; that said, can you live in a high end home and drive a Mercedes without HAVING to go to work?

Don't buy into the class warfare rhetoric of the left wing Socialists. Those who get up every day across this nation and HAVE To work in order to pay for their home, car, kid's school, etc. are at best, upper middle class.

The Democrats want to demonize those who work hard to MAINTAIN the American dream. In France, most don't even bother with EXTRA Work; instead, 36 hours a week with 6-8 weeks HOLIDAY. The government pays for just about everything: Socialism

Obama is a Socialist and he wants those who work extra hard to pay for those who CHOOSE not to.

Why not reform the tax system like Huckabee wants? This way every Citizen pays his/her fair share. EVen the drug dealers have to pay taxes. The rich won't have the loopholes and tax lawyers to avoid paying the same amount as I do.
 
What scares me more than Obama? The shocking economic illiteracy of a majority of the country! The Bush taxes cuts were incredible at INCREASING tax revenue to the federal gov't. The only problem is when spending still outpaces the increased revenue. Any no, funding the Iraq war was not the big chunk of the spending. Look at all of the pork spending and domestic programs.

When a "the rich" get taxed to death, the lower middle class suffers. Many jobs are provided by the small business owners who themselves earn around $250-300K. Guess what they do when they can't afford to pay their employees anymore? The certainly don't expand business.

Capital gains taxes. How can people seriously support raising them? How can the argument even be framed in the context of "taxing the rich". How many people earning $30k-$40k have a 401K? Even the customer service reps and secretaries at the IT company I worked for had 401K's.

Same old stale argument - soak the "rich" to pay everyone else's way.
 
BLADEMDA said:
The politicians don't agree on this and never will. For the Democrats they use $80,000 for the "middle class." For Republicans, they use $150,000 for the "middle" class. THe upper middle class is someone who has get off his "arse" each and every day in order to make a living. If he/she were to stop working for more than a few months then there goes the house, the car, etc.
You my friend are the upper middle class. If you were "rich" like many I know then night and weekend work would only be something found in your nightmares.

The rich work because they want to and not because they have to; that said, can you live in a high end home and drive a Mercedes without HAVING to go to work?

Don't buy into the class warfare rhetoric of the left wing Socialists. Those who get up every day across this nation and HAVE To work in order to pay for their home, car, kid's school, etc. are at best, upper middle class.

The Democrats want to demonize those who work hard to MAINTAIN the American dream. In France, most don't even bother with EXTRA Work; instead, 36 hours a week with 6-8 weeks HOLIDAY. The government pays for just about everything: Socialism

Obama is a Socialist and he wants those who work extra hard to pay for those who CHOOSE not to.

Why not reform the tax system like Huckabee wants? This way every Citizen pays his/her fair share. EVen the drug dealers have to pay taxes. The rich won't have the loopholes and tax lawyers to avoid paying the same amount as I do.
Click to expand...


OK...kind of a vague answer to my number 1....

How about my second question?

How many percent of the population falls into the "upper middle class"?
 
The fact is history has a way of repeating itself. Ronald Reagan showed us the way after the Jimmy Carter era. Obama is going to go back to those same failed policies of the late 1970's. Protectionism, higher taxes and thus Stagflation.

2011 is not going to be a good year in the US stock market indices. While the rest of the world adopts Reaganomics (open trade, lower taxes, etc.) and prospers we are going the way of FRANCE.😱
 
militarymd said:
OK...kind of a vague answer to my number 1....

How about my second question?

How many percent of the population falls into the "upper middle class"?
Click to expand...


I wasn't avoiding your question. Instead, I was explaining that there is NO agreement on what constitutes "upper" middle class. So, I gave my own opinion.

As to what constitutes the "upper" middle class percentage I imagine that would be the upper percentiles of taxes paid. I would like to remind you that using taxes paid is a BAD way to define this class.

So many people CHEAT the system. I know dozens who pay just as a fraction of what others do that live the same way. But, the loopholes are "legal" and the IRS can't touch them. That is the why the rich are less concerned about Obama Tax policy than his WallStreet/Capital Gains policy.

PM me and I will provide examples that would shock you.
 
McCain wants to keep us in Iraq and drive us much deeper into debt for a war that we are clearly never going to win. He wants to spend an undefined but likely crippling sum on this war, while lowering taxes.

If this makes sense to you I have to ask: what the hell are you smoking?

To those of you who don't care enough about your community to make universal insurance coverage a reality, perhaps the concept of privatized police and fire services would appeal to you too. Just as people don't choose when to be a victim of crime or fire, they don't choose when to get sick either. If we can send the fire department to someone's house when they get careless smoking in bed, we can pay for their basic medical care too.
 
the upper middle class (ie: those who generate a high income with hard work but don't make enough to live off investments) is a far cry from the upper class who could easily live off investments and trust fund disbursements that are taxed at the same rates of the lower class, lower middle class.

unfortunately we will see more and more tax increases for this easy political target - and yet we won't see the return...

in europe the upper middle class would be paying 50-65% in income tax - but hey
they get
1) super class mass transit
2) free medical care
3) free college (all you gotta pay for are textbooks and room/board)
4) tons of weeks of vacation
5) allowed to unionize
etc...

so what is he going to do with the increased revenues? well he is promising a LOT to the lower class

but here is the catch - increasing taxes doesn't always lead to higher revenues as people become smarter and either "earn" less or figure out new loopholes
 
Except, Power, your argument makes no sense on two fronts..

1) The comptroller general, the accountant for the USA, and non-partisan, has said that our military spending isn't what's driving us into the toilet, it's our entitlement spending, ie, welfare state. He said that even if we "repealed the military budget", we still would be sinking, and fast.

2) The Government's legitimate role as defined by the Constitution is to protect us using the military. Islamofascism is beating down our door, and we need a strong military to take them out.

Stealing from the rich to provide "free" healthcare to the "poor" isn't a legitimate government function, and is in fact, signing our own economic suicide pact as a nation.

powermd said:
McCain wants to keep us in Iraq and drive us much deeper into debt for a war that we are clearly never going to win. He wants to spend an undefined but likely crippling sum on this war, while lowering taxes.

If this makes sense to you I have to ask: what the hell are you smoking?

To those of you who don't care enough about your community to make universal insurance coverage a reality, perhaps the concept of privatized police and fire services would appeal to you too. Just as people don't choose when to be a victim of crime or fire, they don't choose when to get sick either. If we can send the fire department to someone's house when they get careless smoking in bed, we can pay for their basic medical care too.
Click to expand...
 
powermd said:
McCain wants to keep us in Iraq and drive us much deeper into debt for a war that we are clearly never going to win. He wants to spend an undefined but likely crippling sum on this war, while lowering taxes.

If this makes sense to you I have to ask: what the hell are you smoking?

To those of you who don't care enough about your community to make universal insurance coverage a reality, perhaps the concept of privatized police and fire services would appeal to you too. Just as people don't choose when to be a victim of crime or fire, they don't choose when to get sick either. If we can send the fire department to someone's house when they get careless smoking in bed, we can pay for their basic medical care too.
Click to expand...

McCain will limit our exposure in Iraq. He values every soldier's life. He doesn't want to run after we spent so much money and blood in Iraq. HE knows we need a more limited role in Iraq and so does General Petraeus.
The war in Iraq was a bad idea because our real concern all along was and is Iran. McCain knows this but doesn't want to alienate the right wing/conservative base any more than he already has done. McCain is a moderate and would never endager the life of a soldier without good reason.

As for Socialized Medicine even your boy Obama doesn't want that right now. Instead, he wants more Medicare and Medicaid for U.S. Citizens without insurance. Don't worry because you will have the opportunity to pay for all that free care. The very rich and the very poor won't be getting that bill.
 
BLADEMDA said:
I wasn't avoiding your question. Instead, I was explaining that there is NO agreement on what constitutes "upper" middle class. So, I gave my own opinion.

As to what constitutes the "upper" middle class percentage I imagine that would be the upper percentiles of taxes paid. I would like to remind you that using taxes paid is a BAD way to define this class.

So many people CHEAT the system. I know dozens who pay just as a fraction of what others do that live the same way. But, the loopholes are "legal" and the IRS can't touch them. That is the why the rich are less concerned about Obama Tax policy than his WallStreet/Capital Gains policy.

PM me and I will provide examples that would shock you.
Click to expand...

No need...i quite agree with you on Obama and taxes....actually his advisor's tax policies...i doubt he has any clue.

My point is that I think that "we"/"upper middle class" represent a small enough fraction of the population that the rest (who would benefit from not taxing us) know any better or care.
 
Back to the thread. Obama is most likely the next President of the United States of America. What does that mean to you?

1. Your salary as a Physician is likely to decline slightly from more Medicaid and decreased reimbursement from Medicare

2. Your taxes are going to be much higher but you will still be considered upper middle class despite a significant reduction in take home pay

3. The USA indices are likely to suffer during the Obama years. Invest over-seas or buy commodities secondary to high inflation

4. The debt will be as big or bigger than today due to all his tax and spend programs. Yet, no free college or medical school. No Universal Care. Just stagflation

5. Buy a small repo home from the subprime mess and pay off your debt.
Stick with a Honda or Toyota or deduct the BMW from your business (like the rich people).

6. Vote Republican and hope that the Senate stays out of Democratic control. We in deep doo-doo if the Presidency and the Congress go Democratic. Even a drunken sailor won't be able to spend as much money or tax the middle class enough to pay for it.

BOHICA
 
What is the best case scenario for taxes? The BEST possibility is likely the 200 tax rates of Bill Clinton: www.moneychimp.com Go ahead and punch in your income Today and see your taxes in 2000 vs. 2008. Most likely, you can add THOUSANDS more to the 2000 number as Obama will need even more money.

Even McCain will likely lose any political battle to maintain the Bush tax cuts. Thus, an Obama that goes moderate after the election like Bill Clinton would use the 2000 tax rates.

Unfortunately, our Medicare and Social Security system needs more money. This means no maximum income on the social security portion and higher Medicare tax rate. An effective 10% increase over the Clinton 2000 tax brackets.

www.moneychimp.com Search the site under "tax brackets."

Hence, you should add about 10% to the 2000 tax rate calculation then compare to the 2008 number. Enjoy, as I know the socialists will love it.




http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm
 
mochief2000 said:
this makes no sense. your example shows you are making half a million dollars. I am not saying that you should be taxed more, but come on. Half a MILLION dollars and complaining.
And why is it that everybody keeps talking about how much they work. "I work this many hours a week" or "I work so hard". I have pulled in way over 80 hours a week as a security guard. I have been a labourer and I made maybe 27,000 a year. You act like there are not other people in this world who work hard,your argument is flawed. You work a lot and get paid well for it.
My, main point as a obama supporter is that we are near a recession, who will foot your bill if people have no money. Economies survive because of the middle class not the upper. Give him a chance. Anything is better than bush.
side note: I actually like John Mccain so if obama doesn't win I will still be happy.
Click to expand...

what you are forgetting/do not understand due to lack of experience are the sacrifices we all made/are making to be physicians. You enjoyed your youth, did you not? You played and had as much fun as you could during high school. The rest of us worked our asses off and missed a ****load of "fun events" to realize this goal. We not only did this during high school (I am assuming this is the extent of your education), but during 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 4 years of residency. We give up so much of our personal lives to learn as much as we can and give back in the form of healthcare. Bitch all you want, but when someone you love is seriously ill, you will be begging for a competent physician who was willing to sacrifice to gain the knowledge necessary to help your *** out. THAT has a price. Let's call it an extra 150 - 400, 000 more than the "average American" makes. The average American would never sacrifice the types of things we have. And don't even get me started on how much we owe the system for our education. But I guess you want us to pay that, sacrifice 12 years of our lives, AND make the same ****ing $27,000/yr you make.

I am so tired of this bull**** *** argument from non-medical people. You all will not be happy until you have no physicans to drag in the mud.
 
BLADEMDA said:
I fully expected the "reaction" to my thread would not be overly sympathetic.
After all, who cares about the upper middle class? The problem is that this Group will feel the Obama administration the hardest. Remember, even after working your "arse" off to earn that $500,000 you won't see the first $200,000 of that plus your State may get another 7%. Even the Socialist European Countries are not much worse than Obama USA. With those kinds of taxes where is free college and medical school? Where is "universal" health care?

Huckabee was dead on with his fair tax proposal. So much of the real rich avoid taxes via corporate right offs. You guts have no idea how the real rich avoid taxes. First Obama comes for $250,000 and up Group. Then, when he realizes more money is needed he raises tax on the $100-$250,000 Group.

THe answer is to control spending at the Federal level and stop the waste on all unnecessary projects. State's have to maintain a budget so should Washington.

As for the top 1% of high wage earners I would like to remind you that they pay 90% of all taxes in this Country. People like myself have no way to hide money or "write-off" their corporate yacht and golf club membership.

The true rich don't pay anywhere near 30% income taxes and never will until a Huckabee type tax system is instituted. But, neither party has any interest in a fair tax. Instead, the upper middle class gets hosed again. Too wealthy to avoid the 50% tax but not rich enough to creat the "loopholes" so Obama can't touch them.
Click to expand...

Getting our spending under control is key, IMHO. We don't need to continuing to subsizide the security of nations all over the world by LEASING military bases from them. Let's consolidate our military. Bring our guys home in a responsible way, as the situation warrants, which it does in Korea, Japan, and Germany for sure. These are huge expenses year after year.

I agree with the Fair tax. I'm not sure what it will do to governmental "revenues" or if it'll be enough to make up for disposing of our current progressive system. But, it'll be good to tax spending rather than saving, producing. Maybe we can become a saving nation again instead of having the entire world worry when Americans buckle down on spending. I can't tell you how sick I am of hearing about how if the American "consumer" loses confidence "ripples will be felt around the world". WTF?? And how is this a sustainable "policy"?
 
powermd said:
McCain wants to keep us in Iraq and drive us much deeper into debt for a war that we are clearly never going to win. He wants to spend an undefined but likely crippling sum on this war, while lowering taxes.

If this makes sense to you I have to ask: what the hell are you smoking?

To those of you who don't care enough about your community to make universal insurance coverage a reality, perhaps the concept of privatized police and fire services would appeal to you too. Just as people don't choose when to be a victim of crime or fire, they don't choose when to get sick either. If we can send the fire department to someone's house when they get careless smoking in bed, we can pay for their basic medical care too.
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Amen. And there are "neocons" close to McCain that want us to preemptively bomb Iran.... Unreal. Those people are so dangerous it makes me sick. Then, the American taxpayer (which will gain little from such a move) will pick up a huge tab because the Iranians aren't going to take that laying down. Then, if you think our problems in Iraq are difficult now, just wait if we bomb Iran like Israel so wants us to do, FOR THEM. Look at who the "neocons" really are. Look at AIPAC and even the CFR. Don't take my word for it. Check some of these groups out.

Iran is no threat to us. We could bomb them to oblivion if necessary. They know this, so even if they acquire nukes, they're not going to want to see their entire country go up in smoke. But, no. Our faithful fearmongers will tell you that Iran is a threat to the American people (using fear is the oldest trick in the book and is so Orwellian it's ridiculous), and so we must act.....

Then, these same people are talking about tax cuts! Great. I'm all for tax cuts. But, what'll happen to our national debt?? Wow. Some of these guys seem so clueless it would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
 
When the government runs a single program well, I might be more inclined to give them the money I earned.

Liberals have no clue! I d suggest reading Economic Facts and fallacies might learn something about how government handles resources so well and how government is equally miserable at fixing "social issues"
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
In other news, the sky is falling.
Click to expand...

No. The sky isn't falling at all. You will simply take home a lot less money and experience decreasing buying power due to inflation plus the weakening U.S. Dollar.

Why not take an interest in YOUR government's policies for economics, taxes, social programs, etc.?
 
this is ******ed. Blade you keep reiterating how much you work and your false misinterpretation of what middle class is. To be honest it is quite disturbing. It is like you have a very confused idea of real life. Poor people work just as hard as you and get paid way less. Why are you following a system that clearly is not working. Bush gave ******ed tax cuts and funds an useless war, now china essentially owns the US. Your zealous nature covers the truth up in your cause to save more money. Let me tell you the facts:

1. We are near a recession
2. We are funding a useless war
3. Social security is almost nonexsistant
4. We have a president who hides behind his religion when talking about politics
5. the US dollar is now worth less then the canadian dollar.

I can go on and on.......here the message: We need a CHANGE.
 
Do the Ron Paul idea:

Eliminate income tax altogether.

20-25% sales tax on all sales including gas, electricity, etc. , including supplier to distributor. IRS and all excessive tax administrative positions eliminated or significantly reduced.

In this way, all get taxed. The rich still buy their toys but get taxed without being allowed to write off the taxes. The 11,000,000 illegal aliens finally get to contribute to the economy.
 
Gasem said:
what you are forgetting/do not understand due to lack of experience are the sacrifices we all made/are making to be physicians. You enjoyed your youth, did you not? You played and had as much fun as you could during high school. The rest of us worked our asses off and missed a ****load of "fun events" to realize this goal. We not only did this during high school (I am assuming this is the extent of your education), but during 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 4 years of residency. We give up so much of our personal lives to learn as much as we can and give back in the form of healthcare. Bitch all you want, but when someone you love is seriously ill, you will be begging for a competent physician who was willing to sacrifice to gain the knowledge necessary to help your *** out. THAT has a price. Let's call it an extra 150 - 400, 000 more than the "average American" makes. The average American would never sacrifice the types of things we have. And don't even get me started on how much we owe the system for our education. But I guess you want us to pay that, sacrifice 12 years of our lives, AND make the same ****ing $27,000/yr you make.

I am so tired of this bull**** *** argument from non-medical people. You all will not be happy until you have no physicans to drag in the mud.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
Gasem said:
what you are forgetting/do not understand due to lack of experience are the sacrifices we all made/are making to be physicians. You enjoyed your youth, did you not? You played and had as much fun as you could during high school. The rest of us worked our asses off and missed a ****load of "fun events" to realize this goal. We not only did this during high school (I am assuming this is the extent of your education), but during 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 4 years of residency. We give up so much of our personal lives to learn as much as we can and give back in the form of healthcare. Bitch all you want, but when someone you love is seriously ill, you will be begging for a competent physician who was willing to sacrifice to gain the knowledge necessary to help your *** out. THAT has a price. Let's call it an extra 150 - 400, 000 more than the "average American" makes. The average American would never sacrifice the types of things we have. And don't even get me started on how much we owe the system for our education. But I guess you want us to pay that, sacrifice 12 years of our lives, AND make the same ****ing $27,000/yr you make.

I am so tired of this bull**** *** argument from non-medical people. You all will not be happy until you have no physicans to drag in the mud.
Click to expand...

You forgot the added bonus of lawsuits, with or without mistakes.
 
mochief

please read my post earlier in the thread

first of all it has nothing to with working hard - i think somebody digging a ditch is working "harder" than I am...

it has to do with a combination of market demand/supply, perceived need, skill-set, education AND generation of cash flow

that is why an NBA player can generate millions of dollars per year - there is a high demand with a low supply AND they generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for advertisers, products, etc - and they are also responsible for hundreds if not thousands of jobs

what is an issue is that the upper middle class cannot be asked to constantly be providing entitlement programs for the rest of the country ---

why should i spend another 50k per year and STILL have to pay for my own medical insurance when joe schmo can get his free?
why should i spend another 50k per year and STILL have crappy public education

i believe in philanthropy - i just don't believe the government can spend my money better than I can...

unless of course they decide to spend money on infra-structure - which would be the best solution ...
 
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
Alexis de Tocqueville 1805-1859

Clintobama know they can buy votes using your money.

The fair tax is far superior in collecting funds fairly, efficiently, and in avoiding corruption and the complete waste of spending money on the IRS, tax lawyers, many accountants, etc.
 
it isn't just the democrats -

politicians are ALWAYS promising things that cost the taxpayer more money - and the majority of people who are voting will be the recipients of this re-distribution of wealth.

every election year they promise
1) better healthcare
2) better education
3) stronger national defense
4) less crime

of course, all of these cost money

like i said, i will gladly pay more into the system if I can get more out of it -
 
There's one other not-so-trivial item that the people tend to forget about when viewing the income of the 300-400k physician as "upper class".

Investment potential.

I won't be out of residency until age 36. Pull out your good ole compound interest calculators folks. Now punch in some #'s on the 22 yr. old straight out of college who's able to start investing heavily.

With raises and bonuses on a mid-level job making <100k/yr, the person working from 22 years old until 55, is going to have significantly more wealth accumulated than I will, even assuming the attending salary I'm foreseeing in the future.

But they'll still be viewed as middle class, while I'll be viewed in most as "upper class". I'll be demonized for trying to work hard, (since everyone knows doctors are infintely wealthy (or at least the current litigation environment believes so), while the guy regularly socking his 401k (and who will in his 50's, skyrocket past me in terms of lifetime earnings, will be lauded for investing wisely.

Not bitching, I would rather train hard and do something I love, than work in a cube straight out of college.

When the incentive to work decreases, there will be less work (i.e. - LESS, not more, tax revenue). That's such a simple concept, IMO, but yet some people don't get it.
 
Obama a socialist? I thought he was a Muslim.

BaracKOsamaAP_468x789.jpg



/at least that is what Billary told me.
 
Guys, I already posted this link, but it may have gotten lost in the shuffle given the recent activity. Let me know what you think. This guy's been preaching Ron Paul-like fiscal discipline for a long time now. Nobody else in Washington is willing to talk about the EXTENT of our economic problems.

This is worth the read. Please provide feedback. Again, if you want to learn more about David Walker, you can find good interviews of him on youtube.
It's worth it, especially for the attendings with some cash in the market.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...9D9-4384-B64E-E9B480D2B23F}&dist=MostReadHome
 
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