calling all army docs - info needed

I spoke to an Army AMED office today and got some information.

I'll just list everything that I was told and ask if it's true or not.

1) guaranteed acceptance is 3.5GPA and at least a score of 8 in each MCAT catagory
2) 100% guarantee to not be pulled from Med School or Residency
3) Obligation after degree is 1 year per each year of school, this would equal a 4 year commitment.
4) Upon graduation of Med School, your rank becomes Captain
5) Stipend will be at $1,900 a month very soon
6) Easier to get accepted into Med school through Army than Civilian

I would like opinions from only Army, since it seems to be different from the other branches when
it comes to the HPSP.

Excuse my grammar, I'm tired today.

Thanks

It's the AFHPSP, so I'll answer the one's that apply to all branches. I'm USN but having explored all three and since no one else has yet to respond...

1) Get it in writing (this is lower than USN and USAF "Field Select" Quals), and it is a conditional acceptance awaiting (A) acceptance to medical school, and (B) physical qualification--the former is the hard part as the latter is ripe with waivers for future physicians. Furthermore, "field select" status is not that big of a deal for USA and USN in particular. With the state of applications from recent years as a guide, the odds are heavily in your favor that, if you get into a medical school and wan't to do HPSP, you will get a scholarship. USA and USN have not filled their quota in recent years.

2) In a sense, yes, but look into it. If you don't match you will have to do a GMO. More prevalent in USN and USAF, but something to explore with the Army if you're looking at a competitive (residency) field down the road.

3) Depends. All branches incur active duty obligation (ADO) for both time on scholarship (year-for-year but a minimum 3 year commitment; thus, only year-for-year in certain cases, albeit the majority) and for time in military or full-time inservice residency. These ADO's are served concurrently such that the better way to think of it, and the way it is phrased in the AFHPSP Contract, is that your active duty obligation will be time on scholarship or time in residency with the military, whichever is longer. For example, a 4 year HPSP student who completes a General Surgery residency (5 years) will have a 5 year active duty commitment (not 4). Additionally, if that same student were to do Family Medicine (3 years) they's have a commitment of 4 years. Additionally, you will have 4 years on Individual Ready Reserve and these commitments are always subject to "stop-lossing". If you can, see if they'll give you a copy of the AFHPSP contract to look over at your own pace, not in the 40 minutes before you're commissioned.

4) Yes, you supercede to O-3 with 4 years Entry Grade Credit, more if you have an additonal MS/MA/PhD in certain fields. The latter affects time frame for promotion, either way you're a captain when you come out as an intern.

5) $1907 /month before taxes this summer. This is paid while you are in school, not during breaks--really only an issue after M1, but you'll do Active duty during that summer that will pay at the rate of a 2nd Lieutenant.

6) This is absurd, perhaps they meant to say residency (as that is the common pitch)? You are not on the Army HPSP until accepted to medical school in the first place. The only area where it may be remotely true is if you are waitlisted. Here your ability to pay may be a factor. Accordingly, having an HPSP (and obviously notifying them as such) may help in that you would not require institutional funds. This is a non-issue at most schools, but holds a drop or two of water at some in the case I've described. Others, I'm sure, will point out the equally illogical nature of this boast.

Don't join just for the money.

Here is a quick spreadsheet I did up trying to figure out what HPSP is really worth. I have another one that shows the benefits farther down the line (during residency and after which take into account lost "civilian pay" for your 4 year commitment but that sheet is very sloppy and hard to follow)

All the yellow cells should be updated with your data...don't touch the other ones and it will calculate what you will owe in the end.

I didn't add the 20k scholarship to the equation, but assume you could make up living expenses with that if you needed it.

I figured in a 5% increase in tuition/fees each year, 4% increase for cost of living, no increase in stipend (but an increase in tuition payout for hpsp).

I also separated out the various interest rates for each of the loans you would take (0% on unsubsidized while in school, 6.8% on subsidized, and you can put in whatever rate you think you can get under private loans (could be Grad Plus as well) if you need them)

Under the loans needed portion, you will need to do a little basic math to figure out how much of each loan you will take (only change the yellow cells). The max amounts allowed for stafford loans are indicated in the comments.

Clearly if you are going to a private school or are out of state, the value is much greater. If you have no scholarships or family help the HPSP doesn't look so bad.

In residency you will save another 10-15k a year in loan interest, and make an additional 10-20k a year in pay while in a military residency.

After that, depending on your specialty, you will generally make much less money in the military for those 4 years of obligation (about 70-80k a year in residency, 110-130k after that per year, with some tax benefits). Based on my numbers (private school attendance, no scholarships, no family help, and if you were making 215k straight out of residency as a civilian) you would still be about 180K ahead of your civilian counterpart with HPSP at the end of 4 years…not chump change, but still probably not enough to do HPSP if you couldn't see yourself enjoying service in the armed forces.

PS - my numbers are estimates and there are probably more than a few errors in them...but I tried to make something that was usable and able to give you an estimate within 10-20% error.

PSS - I didn't include the benefit of health insurance which HPSP will pay for if your school requires that you maintain health insurance for yourself (this is another 2k a year benefit unless you have insurance somewhere else)

opheracco said:

1) guaranteed acceptance is 3.5GPA and at least a score of 8 in each MCAT catagory

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I had read several times the auto acceptance MCAT score (for Army) is 29 overall.

2) 100% guarantee to not be pulled from Med School or Residency - No, you can be pulled from residency. The guarantee applies to medical school only.

3) Obligation after degree is 1 year per each year of school, this would equal a 4 year commitment. - Yes, for the most part. I don't think general surgery incurs a five-year obligation, but there are some specialties that require a longer payback.

4) Upon graduation of Med School, your rank becomes Captain - Yes

5) Stipend will be at $1,900 a month very soon - Yes, it is set to rise during the summer. You'll also get active duty pay for 6 weeks out of the year when you do training and externships.

6) Easier to get accepted into Med school through Army than Civilian - Not at all true. The Army cannot get you into medical school.

I would like opinions from only Army, since it seems to be different from the other branches when it comes to the HPSP. - Not true. We all play by the same rules.

deuist said:

2) 100% guarantee to not be pulled from Med School or Residency - No, you can be pulled from residency. The guarantee applies to medical school only.

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Absolutely true. I have seen it with my own eyes. A civilian deferred family practice resident who was grossly overweight was pulled from residency and forced into doing GMO after completing internship year. It makes no sense whatsoever. A fat GMO isn't really better than a fat FP. Regardless, you are not safe while in residency. If they want to come up with some bogus reason to pull your @ss into active duty before completing residency, they can and will do it.

Tired said:

Yeah, but a fat GMO may lose some weight and learn how to run, while a fat FP resident is only going to get fatter.

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That is probably why they did it. I remember getting a lecture shortly after coming onto active duty titled, "You can't eat your way out of the Air Force." No s#it, GI. They proceeded to tell us how your life will be made much more painful if you have to be on the fat-boy program, but your active duty time will not be shortened. I was tempted to fail my last PT test in order to get all that time off from clinic since the fat-boys have mandatory PT 3 times per week during the duty day.

I knew of one resident who got pulled out of a general surgery residency to become a flight surgeon. He finished is time and went back to become a surgical resident at another program where I was on staff, but 4 years later. Its rare, but can happen.

And no, he was not fat, or incompetent, he just had the crappy luck of getting his name, (body) pulled out of a hat somewhere when the needs of the AF totally screwed him