DO's who could have gone to a US MD school?

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LindsayRein1

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Hi all,

I was speaking with a few attendings at the teaching hospital my university is affiliated with and they very casually mentioned that students go to DO school only because they can't get into US MD school. I know that often people do go to DO school as a back up, but I am also sure a lot of people are generally intersted in osteopathic medicine. Are there any students on here that have a high GPA and MCAT and could have/or have actually gotten into US MD school but chose DO instead?

Thanks!
 
Quite a # of students in my school made that choice. Including myself. It isn't that uncommon. The attendings sound like uneducated tools. nice.
 
jbone said:
Quite a # of students in my school made that choice. Including myself. It isn't that uncommon. The attendings sound like uneducated tools. nice.
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So you got into a US MD school and chose to go to DO school instead? What about osteopathic medicine made you choose DO school!

I am very interested in learning more about DO school because I am considering applying! some of the best doctors I have met have been DO.
 
I only applied to DO schools. Where else can you learn to allieviate symptoms with just your bare hands. Plus I imagine it to be one of the best ways to pick up on people. One of the techniques is called "killer fingers" I don't think you even learn this in ninja school. OMM is the shiz 😀
 
LindsayRein1 said:
Hi all,

I was speaking with a few attendings at the teaching hospital my university is affiliated with and they very casually mentioned that students go to DO school only because they can't get into US MD school. I know that often people do go to DO school as a back up, but I am also sure a lot of people are generally intersted in osteopathic medicine. Are there any students on here that have a high GPA and MCAT and could have/or have actually gotten into US MD school but chose DO instead?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That is quite a lovely bias to have as a doctor (alleged MD) - someone whom you must work in the healthcare setting as part of the team...a harmonious rhythm. I am not surprised though. People who champion the amelioration of healthcare are the ones that only lead to its downfall. How much sense does it make to belittle such a respectable profession where the individuals work so hard to get there...and they are the equivalent as you in skills...and from varying opinions of PATIENTS...are better.

As I'm sure this was repeated many times, I only feel inclined to say it again because your questioning is something that people plague my existence with on a daily basis because I made a choice in the beginning of this journey to do what my heart led me to...and that was osteopathy. In college, I had a 3.982 GPA and scored well on the MCAT...but I wanted osteopathy and everyone always had a problem with that. They tried to make me feel bad about choosing it.

Because I benchmarked my performance in college...does that not mean DO schools are deserving of such credentials? Why is it specifically reserved for an allopathic establishment? This is frustrating because not many people know about osteopathic medicine and just assume an assorted list of "nontruths" (that on the open-house day at NYCOM, the vice-president put many to rest) that really are just that!

This is the problem many face today - people who continue to sweep to the side these untruths and all that ultimately amounts is a profusion of confusion. 😡 It's not fair. And it's not fair for those who do well and want to enter this field and people put them down for it. There is no reason at all.

Do the world a favor and do not continue to entertain this notion that DOs are not worthy of excellent credentials (even if you weren't). You seem inquisitive and learning about the field now but it's good to know that there are people out there who want to be in this field and didn't settle.

But I come in peace. Just giving my experience to you. 😀 🙂 🙄 :laugh:
 
LindsayRein1 said:
Hi all,

I was speaking with a few attendings at the teaching hospital my university is affiliated with and they very casually mentioned that students go to DO school only because they can't get into US MD school. I know that often people do go to DO school as a back up, but I am also sure a lot of people are generally intersted in osteopathic medicine. Are there any students on here that have a high GPA and MCAT and could have/or have actually gotten into US MD school but chose DO instead?

Thanks!
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There are quite a few MD schools with similar MCAT and GPA averages as DO schools, ofcourse in general they might have a higher MCAT and GPA averages when you compare all MD schools. The idea of basing your argument on those scores is lame..here's a stat you need to incorporate DO schools have a high percentage of non traditional students..so they are at a disadvantage when competing with college kids who generally have higher scores. This will either bring the avg's down or misrepresent the DO philosophy to find an applicant best fit to be a physician than simply finding a good test taker. DO schools genuinely believe in the idea of finding an all rounded applicant thus their criterion for the MCAT and GPA scores are slightly lower. Don't ever discount the fact that the class sizes are usually larger for DO schools..so a lot of factors play into affecting the averages. But similar to MD schools you will see kids with high mcat scores, high gpa's or one of both. Their reason to be in a DO school can range from being non-traditional to extremely bought into the osteopathic ideology. I am sure there are folks that use DO schools as a backup but the point of this thread is to shed light on the fact that your mcat and gpa's are not the only criterions for choosing DO schools. A lot of the DO schools have better technologies due to being a relatively new school than a lot of the ancient MD schools. The faculty and facilities found at DO schools trump a lot of MD schools out there..it really comes down to you feeling passionate about the medical school you interviewed at, i personally won't go to certain MD schools due to their lack of organization and passion to educate their students. Ofcourse if your choice is btw einstein or some no name school then you would choose einstein but most of us have choices between good-avg schools so to me more than the MD V DO distinction i am concerned about the quality of school itself.
 
I was accepted at DMU and I would have taken it over any other school I applied to (Iowa, UNMC, Rosalind Frankin, Chicago Osteopathic) because the school is AMAZING. The student body is older and seems very mature, the technology is unbeatable and the cost of living is great (Iowa City is just as cheap but feels like a college town... I grew up there.) The only reason I didn't withdraw my applications to the other schools was to see if I could get a full-ride scholarship there (lol). You have to humor yourself sometimes🙂. I know two people that went to DMU over Iowa with dual acceptances because they liked it better.

Also, please remember that until a couple decades ago, the AMA declared that any M.D. associating with a D.O. was to have their medical license revoked for association with "quackery." Honestly, this is true. The major smear campaign against D.O.s early on was because the AMA was losing money. D.O.s didn't even have practice rights in Nebraska until 1989. I live here now and the prejudice, although fading, is very strong.
 
Lamborghini1315 said:
DO schools genuinely believe in the idea of finding an all rounded applicant thus their criterion for the MCAT and GPA scores are slightly lower.
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That is a very true point. I feel DO schools are more open to finding more about you and giving you the credence you deserve as an applicant. They are not quick to close the door on your file. That's why we love them! 😀
 
Here's a simple tip to anyone who fall under the stat trap..just go to a medical school and do well on your boards, clinical rotations to solidify your residency goals. All prerequisites will get you to medical school..but a lot of hard work is required to get you through med school and beyond. So end of the day both DO's and MD's face similar hardships and deserve a lot of credit for all their accomplishments.
 
My stats were fine. In the end location mattered more to me..... so that the wife and I could be near family and so that she could have specific job opportunities.
 
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As usual, there are osteopathic medical students that could have chosen allopathic medical schools, but instead chose an osteopathic one, and there are osteopathic medical students who, for one reason or another, did not get accepted into an allopathic medical school, so the choices from them where entirely osteopathic. Also, there are medical students who applied to both, but chose to attend an allopathic medical schools, etc... And, of course, there are students who applied only to osteopathic medical schools...

So what? The vast majority of these students, no matter where they ultimately chose to attend, will become physicians. We all try to pick the best option available to us, the medical school that we think fits us the best and will help us become the physicians we imagined ourselves to be.

Why do we need to make a distinction between students mentioned above? There is nothing that suggests making one choice over another will make one a better or worse physician, so to say that a given student chose an osteopathic medical school because he or she couldn't get into an allopathic one is meaningless to me. As I already mentioned, there most certainly exists a sub-poplulation of osteopathic medical students where this is true. There's no point in denying it. However, I fail to see the significance of the fact. Are the attendings trying to say that students who fall into this population are not going to make good doctors? If so, then don't pay them any attention. They are most certainly ignorant. We all do the best we can with the choices that are presented to us. And the choices we make can be influenced by a variety of factors, some of which have nothing to do with academics.

Once accepted, pretty much everything gets reset. You are now in a different ballgame, with different challenges. While it's foolish to say that your past has nothing to do with your future, it's just as foolish to not recognize that your success in medical school and beyond is pretty highly dependent on the effort you put into your education presently and the choices you make therein out.

Anyway, make the choice that has heart for you and is the most logical choice for you. Don't let the voices of the ignorant sway you. Instead, make an educated decision.

Good luck with your endeavor.
 
Much of this MD vs DO is just plain politics -- it's about "killing the competition". For instance: maxilofacial surgens have had an issue with dentists trying to perform certain procedures, and this political turf war has been going on for years; although this isn't exactly the SAME as the MD vs DO (since both of the latter go to MEDICAL school), the point is: the more competition you can kill out there, the more opportunity for you. Today, it's a mere numbers game -- there are more MD's out there than DOs, and this majority for a long time tried to get rid of its competition; much of this has nothing to do with academics and all to do with politics.
Go to some MD-school websites and check out their MCAT-score RANGES. These ranges go something like 21-40. This means that some people with a score of 21 on the MCAT got into that MD-school. Are they going to do better on the boards than other people who had a, say 30-31 MCAT, but did not get into MD-school? More relevant: who will be a better doctor? If you cannot answer these questions, then it means that there are other factors, like politics, at play that are symply part of both the admissions process and the discussion on MD vs. DO. That's just reality. It's not a perfect world out there. Bottom line is: averages and numbers do not necesserally determine if someone will get into a certain school or be a better doctor. That's just my opinion, so I hope it helps to shed some light on the issue. Good luck on whatever you decide 🙂.
 
Knockout Mice said:
I only applied to DO schools. Where else can you learn to allieviate symptoms with just your bare hands. Plus I imagine it to be one of the best ways to pick up on people. One of the techniques is called "killer fingers" I don't think you even learn this in ninja school. OMM is the shiz 😀
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Speaking of tools!

It is people like you that give the osteopathic philosophy a bad rap. Your post makes osteopathy look like another quackery (Which it is not). Ask most DOs if they alleviate symptoms with their bare hands.......I'm willing to bet my degree that 90% will look at you like you are a complete tool.

When will people get it through their thick skulls that modern osteopathic medicine is just another option available to those who choose to be physicians. True, it happens to be less well known than MD, and therefore most opt for the MD degree if they can get it. Those who cannot will likely choose the DO route or go try their luck at one of the diploma mills on the islands. Most who choose a DO degree without considering MD first usually do it because of geographical concerns or they are confident with their abilities and are not worried about being constrained when it comes to matching into a specialty of their choice.

So, stop already with the OMM is the shizz talk. It is embarrassing for all those who actually know what being a DO is all about....(umm, not that I am one of them, ha ha) but still, I fell for them when little ****s like you say irritating things.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is.
 
ScootDoc said:
Speaking of tools!

It is people like you that give the osteopathic philosophy a bad rap. Your post makes osteopathy look like another quackery (Which it is not). Ask most DOs if they alleviate symptoms with their bare hands.......I'm willing to bet my degree that 90% will look at you like you are a complete tool.

When will people get it through their thick skulls that modern osteopathic medicine is just another option available to those who choose to be physicians. True, it happens to be less well known than MD, and therefore most opt for the MD degree if they can get it. Those who cannot will likely choose the DO route or go try their luck at one of the diploma mills on the islands. Most who choose a DO degree without considering MD first usually do it because of geographical concerns or they are confident with their abilities and are not worried about being constrained when it comes to matching into a specialty of their choice.

So, stop already with the OMM is the shizz talk. It is embarrassing for all those who actually know what being a DO is all about....(umm, not that I am one of them, ha ha) but still, I fell for them when little ****s like you say irritating things.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is.
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Whoa there, just chill out man. I apologize, I did not mean offend anyone. I was just merely having a sense of humor which you obviously do not possess. Now I'm not talking about allievating ALL symptoms with your hands. I have seen it allieviate pains, migraines, improved breathing. I myself have had it done on me before. You know that alot of PMR residencies prefer DOs over MDs. Being a Utah MD student, have you had OMM done on you before? This is why I choose to apply to only DO and can't wait to start. It provides you with with an alternative beneficial treatment method on top of the allopathic treatment methods as well.
 
LindsayRein1 said:
Hi all,

I was speaking with a few attendings at the teaching hospital my university is affiliated with and they very casually mentioned that students go to DO school only because they can't get into US MD school. I know that often people do go to DO school as a back up, but I am also sure a lot of people are generally intersted in osteopathic medicine. Are there any students on here that have a high GPA and MCAT and could have/or have actually gotten into US MD school but chose DO instead?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

barring any MCAT disaster, i will be highly competetive at MD programs but i will likely choose to go DO (unless i get into UCSD). im excited to learn OMM and hopefully be able to apply it to my future career in sports medicine or PM&R
 
ScootDoc said:
Take it for what it is.
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.... a steaming pile of dog sh ... err nevermind. Listen, we get your point. However, you blur lines saying that DO philosophy is valid, but "to stop it with the 'OMM shizz ?'" You do realize that OMM is basically the only difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine? Confusing. Moving on ... the guy was just trying to get excited and dismiss the OP's stupid question in the first place. Yes, people are excited to become osteopathic physicians, students opt for DO schools over MD schools for various reasons, and it is by no means a backup to allopathic institutions. If you actually applied to DO schools or have a decent knowledge of osteopathic philosophy (which I believe you stated that you did not), then commentary would be fine. However, coming in here and bashing people then trying to make up for it with crossed messages and transparent band-aids makes you sound like an Allo student who thinks DOs are inferior. This may not be the case, but I'm just telling you what it seems like and, by connection, what your two cents smells like.
 
Hi all..

This by no means was an MD vs. DO war thread. I was just wondering if ANYONE had personal experience with having the stats to attend allopathic medical school but chose osteopathic medical school. I mean, you have a thread on here about choosing an allopathic residency because it makes it easier to get a fellowship, etc, so I am wondering why if people have gotten into an allopathic school, they chose osteopathic instead...?
 
LindsayRein1 said:
Hi all..

This by no means was an MD vs. DO war thread. I was just wondering if ANYONE had personal experience with having the stats to attend allopathic medical school but chose osteopathic medical school. I mean, you have a thread on here about choosing an allopathic residency because it makes it easier to get a fellowship, etc, so I am wondering why if people have gotten into an allopathic school, they chose osteopathic instead...?
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To answer your question, Yes but due to my wife already having a good job and we already have a condo that we don't want to sell right now, my choice of what schools that I applied to was a bit more practical. In the end I choose a school that I can commute to.

You sound as if you have concerns about the degree and potential limitations. My thoughts are that you should seek a few practicing DO's to find out what it is really like. They where able to answer all my concerns in person. Best of luck
 
LindsayRein1 said:
Hi all,

I was speaking with a few attendings at the teaching hospital my university is affiliated with and they very casually mentioned that students go to DO school only because they can't get into US MD school. I know that often people do go to DO school as a back up, but I am also sure a lot of people are generally intersted in osteopathic medicine. Are there any students on here that have a high GPA and MCAT and could have/or have actually gotten into US MD school but chose DO instead?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

In short, the answer to your question is yes. I think you will find the most common reason to be location, followed in no particular order by philosophy, desire to learn OMM, facilities, and probably some others I am missing. (Read the threads below)

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=94851

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=283585

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=229450
 
3.6 overall GPA 31 mcat- great extracurriculars.... 2 acceptances to MD programs....

Going to MSUCOM starting in June---


The people, the atmosphere, the grading system, the location, all made me choose this school over the MD's.... (who *wants* to live in Detroit?...Lansing is so much nicer!)


Glück with your decision-making--- because we all know that in the end.... MD and DO are the same Job... just different means to an end... go where makes you feel comfortable =):luck:
 
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JaggerPlate said:
.... a steaming pile of dog sh ... err nevermind. Listen, we get your point. However, you blur lines saying that DO philosophy is valid, but "to stop it with the 'OMM shizz ?'" You do realize that OMM is basically the only difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine? Confusing. Moving on ... the guy was just trying to get excited and dismiss the OP's stupid question in the first place. Yes, people are excited to become osteopathic physicians, students opt for DO schools over MD schools for various reasons, and it is by no means a backup to allopathic institutions. If you actually applied to DO schools or have a decent knowledge of osteopathic philosophy (which I believe you stated that you did not), then commentary would be fine. However, coming in here and bashing people then trying to make up for it with crossed messages and transparent band-aids makes you sound like an Allo student who thinks DOs are inferior. This may not be the case, but I'm just telling you what it seems like and, by connection, what your two cents smells like.
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If you would have read my reply thoroughly you would have realized that I most definitely do not see myself as superior to any DO student. What I did say is that although all DOs learn OMM only a very small fraction actually use it. I have worked with many DOs and not one uses OMM. Does that mean that none use it? No, of course not, but I am well versed in the osteopathic philiosphy (whether you think so or not) and I have done my research and can comfortably say that a larger portion of DOs do not use OMM post graduation.

So, I am validated in saying that MODERN osteopathic medicine is simply another route by which a person can practice medicine, and that although it is rooted in a different philosophy underscored by OMM, most DOs actually end up practicing allopathic medicine.

If you weren't so eager to start a flame war, you would have realized that my true intentions lie in favor of DOs simply being MD equals.

Same game..........just a different name.

Get over yourself Jaggerplate.
 
it is my belief that a lot of people go to DO schools cuz they dont get into MD schools. However, it is almost my belief that these same students realize that they are getting the exact same education and in 4 yrs look back and regret their decision at all.
 
I've gotten into both Ohio State and OUCOM but am seriously considering attending OUCOM. I fully believe I'll get a stellar education at both schools.
 
I've posted similar sentiments before, but I wanted to reiterate how ridiculous these debates are in the real world. I have shadowed as a premed and have seen MD residents and interns get drilled by DO attendings. It has nothing to do with school attended, it has all to do with experience and post-graduate training. How good of a Dr. you are and how far your career goes is up to nothing else but how good you are regardless of 2 measly letters after your name. I also second the parallel between these arguments and college in general. Doesn't it sound ridiculous to generalize that there's a correlation between school attended and future career success??....Heck, I'm an IVY grad and I don't think for a second that I'm better off in the long run than anyone else regardless of where they went to school because there's just too many factors at play throughout the ride. Scoring 3 points (on average) lower on the MCAT and having a negligibly lower GPA has NO affect whatsoever on how you perform as a physician after 10 years of training. I just think these debates are purely ego driven.
 
JaggerPlate said:
.... a steaming pile of dog sh ... err nevermind. Listen, we get your point. However, you blur lines saying that DO philosophy is valid, but "to stop it with the 'OMM shizz ?'" You do realize that OMM is basically the only difference between allopathic and osteopathic medicine? Confusing. Moving on ... the guy was just trying to get excited and dismiss the OP's stupid question in the first place. Yes, people are excited to become osteopathic physicians, students opt for DO schools over MD schools for various reasons, and it is by no means a backup to allopathic institutions. If you actually applied to DO schools or have a decent knowledge of osteopathic philosophy (which I believe you stated that you did not), then commentary would be fine. However, coming in here and bashing people then trying to make up for it with crossed messages and transparent band-aids makes you sound like an Allo student who thinks DOs are inferior. This may not be the case, but I'm just telling you what it seems like and, by connection, what your two cents smells like.
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If you don't like my question... feel free to not post on this thread! thanks. 🙂
 
Hmm I'd like to add one more thing: I think there's a reason why DO schools favor slightly older applicants AND many of DO attendees speak very highly and confidently about their decision to go DO....First, I think that many older applicants take much more into consideration when ultimately choosing a med school all while having less options (usually) because the process still highly favors traditional applicants. Many people apply with spouses and children and simply must take them into account. This may be a significant difference between traditional and older non-traditional applicants. Secondly, I would actually make the generalization that older students care a lot less about the MD vanity issue. Of course there are those residency/specialty debates but I think older students (who evidently make up a significant portion of DO applicants) are trying to do all they can to just become a doctor....based on SDN this is not the case for many recent college grads or juniors/seniors who appear very caught up in superficial issues that don't matter. my 2 cents.
 
LindsayRein1 said:
If you don't like my question... feel free to not post on this thread! thanks. 🙂
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No, I'll post wherever I want at anytime ... thank you. Your question is stupid and has been answered numerous times. I don't like that you can't use a search engine and that no one has brought up DO schools such as Western that have higher matriculation gpa/mcat than certain state MD schools. I think it is funny that you claim to be generally interested in osteopathic medicine and just want some facts, but haven't asked a single question other than this. Wouldn't you be curious about various other things besides what students far older than you have done? You don't even want to know what matriculation stats are like? School location? Match lists?? Or maybe you used the search function for those ...
 
JaggerPlate said:
No, I'll post wherever I want at anytime ... thank you. Your question is stupid and has been answered numerous times. I don't like that you can't use a search engine and that no one has brought up DO schools such as Western that have higher matriculation gpa/mcat than certain state MD schools. I think it is funny that you claim to be generally interested in osteopathic medicine and just want some facts, but haven't asked a single question other than this. Wouldn't you be curious about various other things besides what students far older than you have done? You don't even want to know what matriculation stats are like? School location? Match lists?? Or maybe you used the search function for those ...
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You seem to be very, very bitter about questioning the differences between MD and DO. Did you want to go to MD school and not get in? The reason I asked the question is that, as you can see on these boards, people discuss wanting to go through allopathic residency as opposed to osteopathic residency because it gives them a better chance for a better fellowship. And what I want to know is if anyone has had a personal experience with being ABLE to attend MD school but elected DO school instead, and not as a back up. Because as you know, plenty of people choose DO school as a back up. And i am interested in hearing from the people who COULD have gone to MD school but CHOSE DO school.. and their reasoning. 🙂 No hard feelings, and I am not attacking DO! I just want more information from a specific student population!
 
ScootDoc said:
If you would have read my reply thoroughly you would have realized that I most definitely do not see myself as superior to any DO student.
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Good. This is why I put disclaimers and maybes in my previous post.

ScootDoc said:
What I did say is that although all DOs learn OMM only a very small fraction actually use it. I have worked with many DOs and not one uses OMM.
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Without a doubt. I believe the AOA has actually done studies to prove this. I just must have missed this logical point amongst you calling the kid a tool and betting your degree against things.

ScootDoc said:
No, of course not, but I am well versed in the osteopathic philiosphy (whether you think so or not) and I have done my research
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ScootDoc: "It is embarrassing for all those who actually know what being a DO is all about....(umm, not that I am one of them, ha ha)"

Well versed in osteopathic philosophy, done research, but have no idea what being a DO is all about??? You've lost me here. I know that you aren't a DO student, but you think in all this research you would at least understand what it is like to be one?

ScootDoc said:
So, I am validated in saying that MODERN osteopathic medicine is simply another route by which a person can practice medicine, and that although it is rooted in a different philosophy underscored by OMM, most DOs actually end up practicing allopathic medicine.
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Agreed. However, I think saying that a good portion of DOs choose allopathic residencies is a better way to state this opinion. I don't think I'd say someone who completed an AOA residency but chooses not to use OMM practices allopathic medicine. That just sounds weird.


ScootDoc said:
If you weren't so eager to start a flame war, you would have realized that my true intentions lie in favor of DOs simply being MD equals.
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I'm glad that your intentions are pure. Its funny, everyone always has pure intentions after being called out. Weird. Anyway, I really hope that you see the degrees as equal, seems like you do at least. And as far as me being soooo eager to start a flame war .... I don't think I was the one calling people tools, Carib schools diploma mills, calling OMM shizz, etc etc. I don't lie awake at night thinking of ways to explode on people who say anything negative things about the DO degree and you actually seem to be a logical person concerning the state of the two medical degrees. However, whenever anyone comes in here with guns blazing, bashing people and 'betting their degree' against things ... yes, I will call you out for various things.


ScootDoc said:
Same game..........just a different name.
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Correct ... and this is the best statement you have made the entire time, I 100% agree with this opinion.


ScootDoc said:
Get over yourself Jaggerplate.
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SDN has a really cool feature where you can actually click a button and 'ignore' certain users. This means that you could click on a button and never see anything I actually post. If I bother you please feel free to utilize this feature. I mean, I know you wouldn't want to start a flame war (and I obviously do). :meanie:
 
LindsayRein1 said:
You seem to be very, very bitter about questioning the differences between MD and DO. Did you want to go to MD school and not get in? The reason I asked the question is that, as you can see on these boards, people discuss wanting to go through allopathic residency as opposed to osteopathic residency because it gives them a better chance for a better fellowship. And what I want to know is if anyone has had a personal experience with being ABLE to attend MD school but elected DO school instead, and not as a back up. Because as you know, plenty of people choose DO school as a back up. And i am interested in hearing from the people who COULD have gone to MD school but CHOSE DO school.. and their reasoning. 🙂 No hard feelings, and I am not attacking DO! I just want more information from a specific student population!
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Ms Rein,
I wouldn't say I'm bitter, I just suffer from a medical condition that results in an extremely lower tolerance for stupid people. I can't help it. When someone asks back handed, "curious" questions or keeps saying they just want answers even though people have answered the question a dozen times on a pointless thread ... I just react. MDs are working around the clock to find a cure, but the future doesn't look good. Potentially, I could never be able to tolerate stupid people.:scared:

Also, you keep brining up this allo vs osteo residency thing, which is honestly a completely different issue and this thread popped up on the boards like a day ago so quit referencing it.

Your whole attitude makes me laugh. Saying things like "As you know, plenty of people use DO schools as a backup." Really? Where did these statistics come from? I'd be curious to see your sampling methods and such. Also how you say people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' ... implying that DO schools are 100% backups. You also say that you aren't attacking DO, but I still struggle to see your interest, and reallllly struggle to believe you when you say that you just want your question answered, but seem to ignore the dozen answers you have received from people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' but choose to slum it at a DO school instead. Why are you doing this??? Doesn't this completely answer your question? Weird. It's almost like that ... wasn't your intention???

Anyway, conclusion. Why Am I being such a jerk? Long story short, even if your intentions are to simply learn why some people choose DO over MD, everyone on these boards has seen trolls use this facade to rip on osteopathic medicine too many times to just answer your question. All these threads just turn into MD vs DO, people get warned, threads get locked etc etc. If you want information, it is out there ... don't be afraid to look. You question has been answered. There is someone a few posts above with a 3.6 and 30+ MCAT who turned down 2 MD acceptances for DO because of location, atmosphere, grading system etc. There, you have your answer; it does happen. Feel satisfied in your quest for this knowledge.

edit: as far as your original question 'am I a MD reject that had to go DO?' No, I'm pre-medical ... please see the information below my avatar.
 
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mynamewastaken said:
Hmm I'd like to add one more thing: I think there's a reason why DO schools favor slightly older applicants AND many of DO attendees speak very highly and confidently about their decision to go DO....First, I think that many older applicants take much more into consideration when ultimately choosing a med school all while having less options (usually) because the process still highly favors traditional applicants. Many people apply with spouses and children and simply must take them into account. This may be a significant difference between traditional and older non-traditional applicants. Secondly, I would actually make the generalization that older students care a lot less about the MD vanity issue. Of course there are those residency/specialty debates but I think older students (who evidently make up a significant portion of DO applicants) are trying to do all they can to just become a doctor....based on SDN this is not the case for many recent college grads or juniors/seniors who appear very caught up in superficial issues that don't matter. my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Well, non-trads wanting to become a physician not matter the route can apply to trads too (not like you said otherwise, I just wanted to bring it up). Just as there are people who are accepted to MD and DO, there are DO students who couldn't get into MD so they went DO. This has been said before and I'm sure we all can agree that both situations happen.

But, I don't see how all DO students who 'settled' for DO because they couldn't get into MD would have any regret. They want to practice and it's hardly about philosophy anymore at this point.

I'm pretty sure we'll find every type of student under the sun in med school who got there and stayed there for a variety of reasons. Shouldn't we be more concerned with our own decisions and reasoning?
 
I agree with JaggerPlate actually. Searching for this info is the responsible thing to do -- that's how ADULTS come to an INFORMED decision. Asking questions like this sounds like one is trying to figure out what "more popular" out there in order to choose that. I think young people in college need to get over that whole "popular" high-school mentality and take some responsibility for their decisions and, in the end, actions.
The way I found out about DOs is when I actually met several of them in Philly, then researched on the internet, then asked them about it. By the way these people represented 3 different specialties -- cardiology, radiology, neurology -- so I got lots of info from them.
I would encourage people to do the same -- research 😉.



:luck::luck: 🙂 WESTERN U. COMP CLASS OF 2012 🙂:luck::luck:
 
JaggerPlate said:
Ms Rein,
I wouldn't say I'm bitter, I just suffer from a medical condition that results in an extremely lower tolerance for stupid people. I can't help it. When someone asks back handed, "curious" questions or keeps saying they just want answers even though people have answered the question a dozen times on a pointless thread ... I just react. MDs are working around the clock to find a cure, but the future doesn't look good. Potentially, I could never be able to tolerate stupid people.:scared:

Also, you keep brining up this allo vs osteo residency thing, which is honestly a completely different issue and this thread popped up on the boards like a day ago so quit referencing it.

Your whole attitude makes me laugh. Saying things like "As you know, plenty of people use DO schools as a backup." Really? Where did these statistics come from? I'd be curious to see your sampling methods and such. Also how you say people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' ... implying that DO schools are 100% backups. You also say that you aren't attacking DO, but I still struggle to see your interest, and reallllly struggle to believe you when you say that you just want your question answered, but seem to ignore the dozen answers you have received from people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' but choose to slum it at a DO school instead. Why are you doing this??? Doesn't this completely answer your question? Weird. It's almost like that ... wasn't your intention???

Anyway, conclusion. Why Am I being such a jerk? Long story short, even if your intentions are to simply learn why some people choose DO over MD, everyone on these boards has seen trolls use this facade to rip on osteopathic medicine too many times to just answer your question. All these threads just turn into MD vs DO, people get warned, threads get locked etc etc. If you want information, it is out there ... don't be afraid to look. You question has been answered. There is someone a few posts above with a 3.6 and 30+ MCAT who turned down 2 MD acceptances for DO because of location, atmosphere, grading system etc. There, you have your answer; it does happen. Feel satisfied in your quest for this knowledge.

edit: as far as your original question 'am I a MD reject that had to go DO?' No, I'm pre-medical ... please see the information below my avatar.
Click to expand...

I did a search. My question has never been asked. People have never really spoken about why they have chosen DO over MD if they could attain admission in both schools.

I have not once said I believe MD is in any way better than DO. I am asking what is the reasoning for choosing DO over MD if you could attain admission to both because I am applying for 2009 and I am above the average statistics for admission for MD school and DO school, but I don't want to rule out applying DO just because I have the MCAT and GPA to get me into MD school. I am trying to understand why those in a position similar to mine chose DO school.

This wasn't meant to be threatening. Relax, this is just an internet forum. No need to get heated 🙂
 
I've met a few people. It tends to come down to what they are interested in with regards to speciality as well as location. I haven't met too many people interested in the hardcore super competitive specialities outright pick a DO school. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the people I met were very internal medicine, emergency medicine, primary care-ish oriented. (The ones that chose the DO over MD)

Once again, we can't always run off and blame every attending for having these opinions. They are based on information that was relevant when they were in medical school. In the 60s osteopathic schools were viewed with about as much esteem as a mediocre Caribbean school. It wasn't until the 70s or so that osteopathic schools really started to make solid headway. I hate to break it to some people, but there is usually some element of truth to these opinions. They don't just originate out of thin air. These days I don't think it really matters as much. All schools offer an adequate education and opportunity. It is the person that unlocks the potential, not the school. The school just gives you the tools.
 
I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prXXOxCPNek[/YOUTUBE]
 
LindsayRein1 said:
I did a search. My question has never been asked. People have never really spoken about why they have chosen DO over MD if they could attain admission in both schools.

I have not once said I believe MD is in any way better than DO. I am asking what is the reasoning for choosing DO over MD if you could attain admission to both because I am applying for 2009 and I am above the average statistics for admission for MD school and DO school, but I don't want to rule out applying DO just because I have the MCAT and GPA to get me into MD school. I am trying to understand why those in a position similar to mine chose DO school.

This wasn't meant to be threatening. Relax, this is just an internet forum. No need to get heated 🙂
Click to expand...

Well, I'm glad you tried a search. Yes, you can attain admission to both, and both application processes run in the same time frame. I think you should try to understand osteopathic philosophy and see what some DO schools have to offer if you are considering applying. People have been in your same shoes before and chosen DO, but remember that the medical school application process is very complex and having above average stats does not guarantee you admission anywhere. This is why I think you should check out the philosophy and mission statements of DO schools you are interested in. If your ideals match theirs, this would give you a good chance of finding a school to be accepted and happily study medicine.

Finally ... you need to stick around to see some real action. You may think this is just an internet forum, but oh no ... its SDN and things do tend to get heated :laugh:

Good luck with the application process. Remember to apply to schools that will make you happy, not just places where you can be accepted!!
 
JaggerPlate said:
Ms Rein,
I wouldn't say I'm bitter, I just suffer from a medical condition that results in an extremely lower tolerance for stupid people. I can't help it. When someone asks back handed, "curious" questions or keeps saying they just want answers even though people have answered the question a dozen times on a pointless thread ... I just react. MDs are working around the clock to find a cure, but the future doesn't look good. Potentially, I could never be able to tolerate stupid people.:scared:

Also, you keep brining up this allo vs osteo residency thing, which is honestly a completely different issue and this thread popped up on the boards like a day ago so quit referencing it.

Your whole attitude makes me laugh. Saying things like "As you know, plenty of people use DO schools as a backup." Really? Where did these statistics come from? I'd be curious to see your sampling methods and such. Also how you say people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' ... implying that DO schools are 100% backups. You also say that you aren't attacking DO, but I still struggle to see your interest, and reallllly struggle to believe you when you say that you just want your question answered, but seem to ignore the dozen answers you have received from people who 'COULD have gone to an MD school' but choose to slum it at a DO school instead. Why are you doing this??? Doesn't this completely answer your question? Weird. It's almost like that ... wasn't your intention???

Anyway, conclusion. Why Am I being such a jerk? Long story short, even if your intentions are to simply learn why some people choose DO over MD, everyone on these boards has seen trolls use this facade to rip on osteopathic medicine too many times to just answer your question. All these threads just turn into MD vs DO, people get warned, threads get locked etc etc. If you want information, it is out there ... don't be afraid to look. You question has been answered. There is someone a few posts above with a 3.6 and 30+ MCAT who turned down 2 MD acceptances for DO because of location, atmosphere, grading system etc. There, you have your answer; it does happen. Feel satisfied in your quest for this knowledge.

edit: as far as your original question 'am I a MD reject that had to go DO?' No, I'm pre-medical ... please see the information below my avatar.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh...it's just a thread. So she asked a question that may have been asked before...There is no reason to blow up 👎
 
LindsayRein1 said:
I did a search. My question has never been asked. People have never really spoken about why they have chosen DO over MD if they could attain admission in both schools.
Click to expand...

Did you not read DragonWell's reply?

I have not once said I believe MD is in any way better than DO. I am asking what is the reasoning for choosing DO over MD if you could attain admission to both because I am applying for 2009 and I am above the average statistics for admission for MD school and DO school, but I don't want to rule out applying DO just because I have the MCAT and GPA to get me into MD school. I am trying to understand why those in a position similar to mine chose DO school.
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion, you aren't asking the right questions and/or approaching the application process the right way. You see, MCAT/GPA do not determine proper fit for you, in terms of what school would make you the most happy; these statistics are two ways that medical school use to screen applicants and decide on admissions. Choosing the right school for you goes far deeper than merely looking at these numbers. Of course, I am not faulting you for thinking in this way; it is the trap that most pre-medical students fall easily into. Search a little deeper. Find the qualities that excite you the most in a medical education, including factors important to you that are peripherally-related, and then try to match that up medical schools that fall into reasonable range, that you think would meet your criteria.

This wasn't meant to be threatening. Relax, this is just an internet forum. No need to get heated 🙂
Click to expand...

I apologize on behalf of my colleages. They mean no harm. They've just heard the same stories over and over... Please feel free to be yourself. I do agree that it would be a good idea to talk to more professionals and to do some research. That's the best way to make an informed decision. Internet forums can help point you in certain directions, but I wouldn't count on them for reliable advice.
 
I figure I could have gotten into an MD school because my grades and mcat are the average for matriculating students for MD schools. I will never know however because I applied exclusively to DO schools. One thing to my advantage is that I knew I would be highly competitive at all the schools I applied to and I really wanted to learn OMM. That and they have a philosophy that I seem to more closely relate and accept. Also I like that they are not as focused on research like MD schools. I applied to 10 schools, got 7 interviews, went to 4 and was accepted by all 4.
 
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Lindsay- Your question and statements are loaded, you're way too black and white. To say that a lot of people go to DO as a "back-up" is rediculous... there are MD "back-ups" for people too. I applied to schools which fit within my location requirements as well as other criteria.

I would tell you that I had the option to not apply to DO schools and reapply to MD schools if needed, but I don't care that much about which degree I get, and going to almost any of the schools I applied to was worth it to me to not have to re-apply. I don't think that there are many (if any) people who get into DO schools who could not eventually get into MD if they felt so strongly about it.

I have visited a lot of MD schools and I think there were only a few which I would have chosen over the DO school I am going to. But I am perfectly happy with where I am going, and the options I had so I will not re-apply.

And FYI just because your MCAT and GPA are sooo great does not mean you will get into MD or DO.
 
Tired said:
Can someone toss me a link to this philosophy I keep hearing about?
Click to expand...

Um, here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_dysfunction
http://www.osteodoc.com/philosophy.htm
http://www.oucom.ohiou.edu/dbms-witmer/Downloads/Howell_2003-12-16_Som_Dysf _OMT.pdf
http://www.medicine-in-motion.com/Osteopathic_medicine.htm
http://www.studentdoctor.net/blogs/omtguru/2006/12/somatic-dysfunction-and-omt.html
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_becomedo
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_omt
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_tenet
http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_omtterm
http://www.hawardenmedical.com/principle.html
http://www.vital-osteopathy.com/main/osteopathy_principles.html
http://www.txosteo.org/Documents/OMT_protocols.pdf
http://www.om-pc.com/content/1/1/7
 
Got into both...chose DO because I liked the interview day better, I like the idea of having extra treatment methods to help patients, and I have found the student body to fit my personality better(at my school anyways).

I dont get along with a-holes, and it may have just been the MD schools I had on the docket....but I had a feeling based on the people I was interviewing with that I wouldn't get a long with many people.
 
avalon18217 said:
Lindsay- Your question and statements are loaded, you're way too black and white. To say that a lot of people go to DO as a "back-up" is rediculous... there are MD "back-ups" for people too. I applied to schools which fit within my location requirements as well as other criteria.

I would tell you that I had the option to not apply to DO schools and reapply to MD schools if needed, but I don't care that much about which degree I get, and going to almost any of the schools I applied to was worth it to me to not have to re-apply. I don't think that there are many (if any) people who get into DO schools who could not eventually get into MD if they felt so strongly about it.

I have visited a lot of MD schools and I think there were only a few which I would have chosen over the DO school I am going to. But I am perfectly happy with where I am going, and the options I had so I will not re-apply.

And FYI just because your MCAT and GPA are sooo great does not mean you will get into MD or DO.
Click to expand...

I am completely aware of this! I am just above the matriculating stats for GPA and MCAT for MD and DO school (3.86 gpa, 33Q) , have done research, volunteering, have clinical experience, etc. I do not bank on getting in anywhere, I know this process is a crap shoot. But I wouldn't want to rule out DO because I don't know much about it. I shadowed one DO (I shadowed in a practice of 3 physicians, 2 were MD and one was DO), and I felt he practiced very similarly to the MD's, therefore I asked the question on here to get the student perspective (for recent students who have recently chosen DO over MD.) I am not asking about people who could eventually, if making their application better, could get into MD school, I am speaking of students who are going DO with an MD acceptance or could have attained MD acceptance and why they are choosing it.

Thanks! And everyone take it easy. I have not intended to attack the DO profession in any which way, I am just asking a simple question. 🙂
 
Ki45toryu said:
Got into both...chose DO because I liked the interview day better, I like the idea of having extra treatment methods to help patients, and I have found the student body to fit my personality better(at my school anyways).

I dont get along with a-holes, and it may have just been the MD schools I had on the docket....but I had a feeling based on the people I was interviewing with that I wouldn't get a long with many people.
Click to expand...


That is really interesting... this is the kind of response I have been looking for. Where the MD schools and DO schools you were deciding between in the same geographic location?
 
LindsayRein1 said:
I am completely aware of this! I am just above the matriculating stats for GPA and MCAT for MD and DO school (3.86 gpa, 33Q) , have done research, volunteering, have clinical experience, etc. I do not bank on getting in anywhere, I know this process is a crap shoot. But I wouldn't want to rule out DO because I don't know much about it. I shadowed one DO (I shadowed in a practice of 3 physicians, 2 were MD and one was DO), and I felt he practiced very similarly to the MD's, therefore I asked the question on here to get the student perspective (for recent students who have recently chosen DO over MD.) I am not asking about people who could eventually, if making their application better, could get into MD school, I am speaking of students who are going DO with an MD acceptance or could have attained MD acceptance and why they are choosing it.

Thanks! And everyone take it easy. I have not intended to attack the DO profession in any which way, I am just asking a simple question. 🙂
Click to expand...

It's actually not a simple question in the least. As I already mentioned before, you need to do some soul searching and come up with qualities/factors that are important for you in choosing a medical school. You need to find out if OMT is something you think you'd enjoy, or at least tolerate, learning for at least 2 years. While the outcome of attending either type of medical school is essentially similar, there are differences in training. One of the most well-known and fundamental differences is OMT/OPP training. You would do well to observe some OMT... Anyway, that would be one good reason to attend an osteopathic medical school, to receive integrated OMT training. If you don't think you'd like learning OMT, then that should be one con in choosing an osteopathic medical school, because, believe me, you'll have to learn it.

Also, you would also be wise to consider what kind of residency/field you would like to pursue in the future. I might be stirring up some controversy by saying this, but if you really want to pursue a highly competitive allopathic residency in the future, you might be better off attending an allopathic medical school, for obvious reasons. Before anybody gets too excited, of course you can match into said residencies if you are an osteopathic medical school graduate (some do each year), but your chances might be higher if you attended an allopathic one.

Furthermore, another potential disadvantage, again depending on what is important to you, is that most osteopathic medical schools don't have academic hospitals attached to them, on campus. This means that you may be going somewhere out of state, maybe chosen by lottery, for your third year rotations, where the didactics are limited, patient population and number of hospital beds not as numerous and diverse, etc. Again, this will have variable impact on you, depending on what is important to you. Often, during your fourth year, you are responsible for coming up with your own rotation sites and this can be daunting for some. Certainly there is an amount of ease and comfort in having an attached academic hospital... On the other hand, you may like having your core rotations done in the fashion that is common for osteopathic medical schools. It's up to you...

A lot of osteopathic medical graduates choose allopathic residencies for a variety of reasons, but I'd say that reasons at the top of the list are location and the perception that allopathic residencies are better in quality. I'd have to admit that there is truth in this statement, but it depends on what you are going after and what is important to you.

Another factor to look into is the cost of attendence. Medical school is expensive. It's probably wise to consider cost in choosing a school.

Anyway, I think you need to look at all the pros and the cons and look at what factors are important for you. This whole nonsense about scores and such won't help you choose a medical school.
 
endocardium said:
It's actually not a simple question in the least. As I already mentioned before, you need to do some soul searching and come up with qualities/factors that are important for you in choosing a medical school. You need to find out if OMT is something you think you'd enjoy, or at least tolerate, learning for at least 2 years. While the outcome of attending either type of medical school is essentially similar, there are differences in training. One of the most well-known and fundamental differences is OMT/OPP training. You would do well to observe some OMT... Anyway, that would be one good reason to attend an osteopathic medical school, to receive integrated OMT training. If you don't think you'd like learning OMT, then that should be one con in choosing an osteopathic medical school, because, believe me, you'll have to learn it.

Also, you would also be wise to consider what kind of residency/field you would like to pursue in the future. I might be stirring up some controversy by saying this, but if you really want to pursue a highly competitive allopathic residency in the future, you might be better off attending an allopathic medical school, for obvious reasons. Before anybody gets too excited, of course you can match into said residencies if you are an osteopathic medical school graduate (some do each year), but your chances might be higher if you attended an allopathic one.

Furthermore, another potential disadvantage, again depending on what is important to you, is that most osteopathic medical schools don't have academic hospitals attached to them, on campus. This means that you may be going somewhere out of state, maybe chosen by lottery, for your third year rotations, where the didactics are limited, patient population and number of hospital beds not as numerous and diverse, etc. Again, this will have variable impact on you, depending on what is important to you. Often, during your fourth year, you are responsible for coming up with your own rotation sites and this can be daunting for some. Certainly there is amont of ease in having an attached academic hospital...

A lot of osteopathic medical graduates choose allopathic residencies for a variety of reasons, but I'd say that reasons at the top of the list are location and the perception that allopathic residencies are better in quality. I'd have to admit that there is truth in this statement, but it depends on what you are going after and what is important to you.

Another factor to look into is the cost of attendence. Medical school is expensive. It's probably wise to consider cost in choosing a school.

Anyway, I think you need to look at all the pros and the cons and look at what factors are important for you. This whole nonsense about scores and such won't help you choose a medical school.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. Your answer was very helpful. I am absolutely going to look more into this! And that is quite a shock, what you said about 3rd and 4th year for DO school. Something to think about... thanks!
 
Without a doubt. I believe the AOA has actually done studies to prove this. I just must have missed this logical point amongst you calling the kid a tool and betting your degree against things.

I referred to this person as a tool because of the his/her ridiculously naive response. "Alleviating illness with my hands....killer fingers...etc"

Also, "willing to bet by degree on it" was simply asserting the degree of confidence I had in what I was saying. It was a figure of speech. Anyone who didn't pick up on that is obviously looking to flame anyone/anything possible.

ScootDoc: "It is embarrassing for all those who actually know what being a DO is all about....(umm, not that I am one of them, ha ha)"

Well versed in osteopathic philosophy, done research, but have no idea what being a DO is all about??? You've lost me here. I know that you aren't a DO student, but you think in all this research you would at least understand what it is like to be one?

I assure you that I have done plenty of research on the subject of osteopathic medicine. Having applied, interviewed and been accepted to 4 DO schools added with the fact that I am actually in medical school I would dare say that I know a fair amount about what it is like to be a medical student and would say that I know (at least more than yourself) what it is like to be a DO. My comment "umm, not that I am one of them, ha ha" simply qualified the fact that I am not a DO student, so I can't speak first handedly.


I'm glad that your intentions are pure. Its funny, everyone always has pure intentions after being called out. Weird. Anyway, I really hope that you see the degrees as equal, seems like you do at least. And as far as me being soooo eager to start a flame war .... I don't think I was the one calling people tools, Carib schools diploma mills, calling OMM shizz, etc etc. I don't lie awake at night thinking of ways to explode on people who say anything negative things about the DO degree and you actually seem to be a logical person concerning the state of the two medical degrees. However, whenever anyone comes in here with guns blazing, bashing people and 'betting their degree' against things ... yes, I will call you out for various things.

According to all your other posts on this thread, I have to agree that you do your fair share of calling out (i.e. flaming). Maybe you are compensating for something that you lack. Self confidence? An acceptance of your own? i just can't quite put my finger on it, but there is definitely something.

Correct ... and this is the best statement you have made the entire time, I 100% agree with this opinion.


Hey look we actually agree on something. Considering that this was the whole gist of my entire initial post, we could have saved ourselves a lot of time and typing if it weren't for your big ego.

SDN has a really cool feature where you can actually click a button and 'ignore' certain users. This means that you could click on a button and never see anything I actually post. If I bother you please feel free to utilize this feature. I mean, I know you wouldn't want to start a flame war (and I obviously do). :meanie:[/QUOTE]

Why would I do that? I have read some of your posts, and the majority of them are well thought out. Plus, I thrive on this ****....
 
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