College slackers adjusting to med school

Heh...sounds like you're me about a year ago. I had a pretty similar high school and undergrad experience. High school was pretty much a breeze and I found most college classes to be pretty similar even though I was at an Ivy. The only class I remember really having to try hard to do well at was physics (I would have had to try hard to do well at Latin, but I gave up, never ever studied, and skirted by with a "C"). At that time, "trying hard" in physics meant keeping up with problem sets and hardcore studying for a day or two before the test. So, yeah, all in all a pretty cushy experience.

Then I got to med school. This year has been the first time in my life that I've ever worried about PASSING my classes. I haven't been close to failing yet, but I do work very hard. It's not so bad that you'll have to give up sleep or not see your family for four months, but it is probably going to be much more difficult than anything you've encountered so far.

wrigley said:

(I may have a high IQ, but trust me, I'd trade it in a heartbeat for some other things)

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I traded my high IQ in a few years back for a bigger package. Completely worth it. I get more chicks and dont need a big truck anymore.

A18Devil said:

I traded my high IQ in a few years back for a bigger package. Completely worth it. I get more chicks and dont need a big truck anymore.

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I actually laughed out loud.


Maybe I'm just easily entertained because I just finished two big tests and am sitting around waiting for self grade to start.

wrigley said:

Were classes easy for you because you got the concepts easily or because you could memorize details easily? I need to think hard to get the concepts but I can remember pretty much anything by reading it once.

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I know a lot of people in my class who don't have to work very hard to pass, and some who do. Almost everyone has to work pretty hard to do well, but that varies too. I think there is a good chance from your description that you won't have to work as hard as most.

wrigley said:

I don't get the truck reference. I'm pretty happy with the size of my package, but I'd gladly trade my intellect for superior manual dexterity. My dream is surgery but with my clumsiness it may be just that, a dream.

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Almost everyone has adequate physical dexterity to do surgery. The limiting factors are usually stamina and the intellectual tasks of patient management. The dexterity comes through years of repetition. Do a search or look at the FAQ in the surgery forum.

wrigley said:

My handwriting is awful as a result.

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Oh, you'll fit in well in any medical field then...

wrigley said:

I don't get the truck reference.

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Classic overcompensation joke.

You adjust pretty fast. At the beginning of the year, you put in the hours because you are excited. Then it just becomes habit.

I never studied more than an hour for any exam in undergrad. As a generalization, I never pre-read, or even read, for my classes. Only work I ever did was assigned. Now a typical study session for me is at least 3 hours, and often when I'm studying 4 hours will fly by in a blink of an eye. I study 5 or 6 days a week. And most of the time, its not really painful.

I learned in the first couple months of med school that I didn't know how to study. Never really had much before. It's not that med school is hard. It's because there's a significant volume of material in a short period of time. So during the first block I left everything to the last couple days before the exam like I always had, but it really sucked when I ended up pulling all-nighters just to get through the info once.

If you space out your studying/memorizing during med school instead of cramming, I don't think you get as bitter.

If your class doesn't rank it's very easy to slide by with low passing scores. I had a job (and alcohol to drink) for most of 1st and 2nd year so I just crammed hard right before each exam. I have excellent memory (if I need to I can memorize book pages and then recall things off them during the test) and still only scraped marginally above passing. There's just too much material.

If you want to get good grades, even the naturally smart people work hard.

wrigley said:

Were classes easy for you because you got the concepts easily or because you could memorize details easily? I need to think hard to get the concepts but I can remember pretty much anything by reading it once.

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I think I'm sort of the opposite of you. I get concepts easily and remember pictures very well but I have a hard time remembering things from textbook reading. I did better in physiology (more concept-based) and anatomy (pretty much entirely about remembering pictures) than I did in biochemistry (which is more about memorizing details of pathways and such). I'm sure you'll find no shortage of challenges if that's what you're hoping for!

The best thing you can do is learn how to study now, even if it means taking a night class at a local community college in a liberal arts subject about which you have no interest and no prior knowledge but that involves a lot of memorization (because sometimes that is how you will spend an entire semester in med school). Many people who enter medical school find they underperform simply because they've never had to study before and don't know how. Furthermore, these are the people who are used to being academic studs and get very frustrated by the difficulty they have in med school. Learn to study now or the first semester will be very painful, both academically as well as on your ego.

I agree completely. Medical school is about work ethic. Learn how to study and work in the beginning and it will pay dividends later. Its always easier to keep doing well than to start off poorly and try to fight back. MS-I was all about adjustment for me.

dilated said:

If your class doesn't rank it's very easy to slide by with low passing scores. I had a job (and alcohol to drink) for most of 1st and 2nd year so I just crammed hard right before each exam. I have excellent memory (if I need to I can memorize book pages and then recall things off them during the test) and still only scraped marginally above passing. There's just too much material.

If you want to get good grades, even the naturally smart people work hard.

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This has been an issue for me, too. I am at a strictly pass/fail school, and while my memory is not so amazing, I can usually scrape by without a huge amount of effort. I usually wind up spending most of the block procrastinating, playing computer games, surfing the internet, and fooling around on the piano or guitar, only really studing once the exam approaches. It's not really so great, though. I'm worried I'm doing myself a disservice in Step I preparation, being able to respond when quizzed on the wards (I refuse to use the term "pimp"), and even being a good doctor some day in terms of being able to remember basic medical knowledge. I mean, a week after the exam I've forgotten everything--and since I only marginally passed, there's a lot I never learned to begin with.

So, although one could say I'm getting the last laugh by passing without working too hard, I kind of feel inadequate next to my classmates who are really mastering the material. It doesn't exactly lead to a happy existence in med school.

being able to respond when quizzed on the wards (I refuse to use the term "pimp")

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I'm so happy that someone else feels the same way. I always say "quizzed" or "asked questions," since "pimping" has such an exploitative connotation.

I also didn't work super hard first year (though I wasn't a slacker), since the school was P/F and I couldn't motivate myself to learn every detail of anatomy and neuroscience. Basically, I was able to score the mean or just above with some well-timed cramming--the concepts came to me pretty easily, in general, just like they did in undergrad, high school, etc. However, second year feels so much more interesting and relevant to clinical medicine, our grading is now honors/P/F, and I want to succeed on Step 1, so I stepped up my work habits considerably and feel good about the year academically (and OK about step 1, though I've still gotta go back and review the MS-1 material!).

I had a pretty similar experience and I think that you will finding passing in medical school to be pretty easy too...Instead of cramming one day you might have to cram one and a half days or two days but not too bad....I would suggest going to class though because some exams at some medical schools stress obscure facts from a lecture instead of what is the in the gold standard text for that class....It is almost easier just to go to class and know everything that is covered than to not go to class and then spend extra time before an exam trying to figure it all out.

The other thing I would say is that no matter how easy you might find passing to be, medical school/medical profession has a way of making you work and study hard no matter what....The wealth of knowledge out there is tremendous and is always changing (and contradicting itself at times unfortunately), and if you're the kind of person who gives a da#n about how you do your job and the patients that your decisions affect, you will probably find yourself studying quite a bit regardless----maybe not the first two years, but there after. Even though I feel we as physicians do little when it comes to extending people's lives (most of the increase in life span we've seen over the past couple of centuries is do to cleaner sanitation and then antibiotics), even providing a person with a few extra days of comfortable living is a profound contribution to that person's life, imo.

From what I've heard you can do this first year and get by--just substitute a night of cramming for a few days of cramming. Second year, however, it will be a lot harder.

Also, there is a difference between learning physics in a night and memorizing thousands of bits of information the the week before an exam. It's more like memorizing all of Orgo 1 for the first test. Most people in medical school will take a month to learn it, you might be able to take a few days to a week.

Edit: I just read your second post... your verbal is really high and you can memorize. I bet you can do well by seeing the info twice... so either reading it twice or going to class than reading it once.

Blade28 said:

You do know that the etymology of the term "pimping" in medicine has nothing to do with the common slang usage nowadays, right?

http://www.neonatology.org/pearls/pimping.html

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Nice link! I'm aware of the origins. I simply prefer to avoid using the word in order to avoid conjuring up the term's other meanings and connotations, especially when it's so easy to avoid--just a personal question of word choice. Particularly outside of the hospital, I don't like explaining "to pimp" and avoid using the term in conversation. I don't have a problem with other people using the term, but it was nice to see someone else who just says "quizzed," whatever his/her reasons may be.

Also, "to pimp" referring to procuring sexual partners has been around since the 1600s in writing, even though the 20th century certainly brought about new usages.

Blade28 said:

You do know that the etymology of the term "pimping" in medicine has nothing to do with the common slang usage nowadays, right?

http://www.neonatology.org/pearls/pimping.html

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You and the surprisingly numerous others who seem to be taking that essay seriously know it's a joke, right?

I have a similar problem with procrastination as the posters above. My best work gets done at night, when there's less to distract me and also when the pressure's on to get something done for tomorrow's class. Case in point, I just sat at my desk, computer closed, and tried to psych myself up to read. 5 seconds later I realize how utterly bored I am and how I'd rather be thinking of/doing something else. What are your tricks for getting excited about the material? Do you guys make up stories? Do you read out loud to yourself?

I'm nearing the end of first year and still haven't found a way to properly study. There's not much motivation to change my ways because I always get the class average on exams. My concern is that I forget things easily, ie my long-term memory is horrible. Not sure if this is a function of procrastinating, since I forget events and details pertaining to other people, news, movies, and tv shows too.

I prefer concepts to memorization- physio has been my favorite class. I also prefer clinical applications to basic science facts. How will second year compare to first in terms of concepts/applications?

Blade28 said:

Of course it's said with tongue-in-cheek. That doesn't stop pimping from being a necessary evil on the wards!

It's medicine's version of the Socratic method, I suppose.

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Oh, I know it's a necessary evil. I was referring to his "historical" references to the term. I think the quotes from Harvey, Flexner, et al. are made up.

To the OP: the little I know of Asperger's seems to make sense in your case. You're blessed with an incredibly astute memory, so you memorize easily, perhaps even photographically. Obviously this is a tremendous boon in subjects like physics, organic chemistry, and biochemistry.

Your verbal skills are not nearly as good as your visual skills--hence, your VR score on MCAT which was still decent but not nearly as stellar as your PS and BS scores. Not surprising given the way your brain works. Also as you mentioned your technical skills (manual dexterity) aren't as good; also not surprising.

IMO as someone who struggled through o-chem and learned biochem fairly well by repetition and did very well in PA school, especially when it came to learning clinical medicine where we integrate concepts (take chief complaint through to a full history, perform appropriate physical exam, consider diagnostics based on a differential diagnosis, narrow down likely culprits, hone in on a diagnosis, initiate a treatment plan), I submit that you will most likely sail through the basic sciences of your medical education but will have more difficulty with integrating these with a real patient. Clinical problem-solving will help, although you may not enjoy PBL or focus groups because you are probably a highly motivated self-learner.

We do know from social sciences research that people with autism spectrum disorders often display extraordinary mental abilities in a particular area. In your case, that seems to be science. I really hope you are able to take that natural ability in science and extend it to the learning and practice of medicine. If surgery is what you want to do, it is certainly possible, although as you say it may be difficult for you technically. But don't forget that some of the best surgeons are those who are first and foremost excellent diagnostic physicians.

You raise a valid concern. You might consider meeting with your faculty advisor very early in first year to discuss where you may need extra attention. I wish you well.

True, and agreed, but he still might be one of them. He describes a photographic memory ("i remember every physics problem I've ever done"). I'm trying to be reasonably encouraging

Blade28 said:

These occurences do occasionally happen, but it's still quite very rare.

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wrigley said:

I've been reading this forum for a while now and realize this may come off looking like a troll post. It's not.

I'm a soon to be MS1 who cruised through college without really ever working hard, except for in hardcore cram sessions maybe 4 or 5 times a semester. The current job I've been working in this gap year has been one big slackfest as well. I just wonder how difficult med school will really be.

People told me before high school AP classes that they'd be a pain in the ***, but I never did more than read the material once and did fine. When I went to college, they told me this was a different league from high school and that I'd have to work hard, but I did the same old BS and again did fine. After my sophomore year, I transferred to an Ivy, and was expecting to finally see some challenge. But again, same old slacking got the job done.

For example, the pre-med physics course there was supposed to be this class you would be thrilled to get a B in. But I slacked all semester, and learned the first semester of physics the night before the final, and got an A. Second semester physics was the same story, except I studied for two nights to understand the material.

I guess I'm just skeptical about how hard med school can really be. I'm not trying to pump my ego or make anyone feel bad (I may have a high IQ, but trust me, I'd trade it in a heartbeat for some other things). Instead, I'm wondering if anyone else has had a similiar experience going through high school and college, and how they adjusted in medical school. Particularly, I'm interested in hearing from anyone who may have an autism spectrum disorder.

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Med school is pretty difficult, but it's just how much you apply yourself. Since it seems you're naturally intelligent, you shouldn't really have problems understanding concepts in med school. But med school leaves no room for slacking though. In undergrad I got A's and B's, but now that I'm in med school, I am worrying about just even passing my classes, as one of the others posters stated.

Blade28 said:

You do know that the etymology of the term "pimping" in medicine has nothing to do with the common slang usage nowadays, right?

http://www.neonatology.org/pearls/pimping.html

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beautiful.

Depakote said:

beautiful.

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indeed. quality reading. Anything that can keep my mind from wandering for more than three minutes is worthy of the pulitzer.

MS1&2= sheer volume and mass memorization. (Blade's analogy is very accurate) If you memorize easily, then this won't be hard for you.

MS3&4= All about application and critical thinking. If you are a med student who just regurgitates, you probably won't do as well. Plus residency will be much harder.
Hence why study after study has shown that USMLE's and inservice scores rarely equate to physician skill at the bedside...

roja said:

Hence why study after study has shown that USMLE's and inservice scores rarely equate to physician skill at the bedside...

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So when can we expect the advent of evidence-based resident selection?

Blade28 said:

This is so true. So often the "booksmart" med students who do well during the basic science years, and on Step 1, can't figure out why those same skills don't necessarily translate into "Honors" grades during the MS-III year.

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You know, I've heard that often here, as well as from people at my school. On the other hand, there have been numerous threads here claiming that this is another of the SDN myths, that usually the people who do well in the first two years go on to do well 3rd year since they have a good fund of knowledge, work hard, and do well on self exams. Has anyone actually looked at the relationship between M1/2 and M3 grades?

Trismegistus4 said:

This has been an issue for me, too. I am at a strictly pass/fail school, and while my memory is not so amazing, I can usually scrape by without a huge amount of effort. I usually wind up spending most of the block procrastinating, playing computer games, surfing the internet, and fooling around on the piano or guitar, only really studing once the exam approaches. It's not really so great, though. I'm worried I'm doing myself a disservice in Step I preparation, being able to respond when quizzed on the wards (I refuse to use the term "pimp"), and even being a good doctor some day in terms of being able to remember basic medical knowledge. I mean, a week after the exam I've forgotten everything--and since I only marginally passed, there's a lot I never learned to begin with.

So, although one could say I'm getting the last laugh by passing without working too hard, I kind of feel inadequate next to my classmates who are really mastering the material. It doesn't exactly lead to a happy existence in med school.

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Dude...this describes me exactly...only difference is I'm NOT at a pass/fail school...so I'm sitting at the top of the third quartile/bottom of the second quartile all the time...in other words...in the dead middle of my class, sometimes lower. It kind of sucks because I know I could do much better (I was a beast in undergrad...what happened?) if I were to put in more time and effort. I procrastinate a lot and put off studying til the last few days before an exam almost every time, despite my determination to change my behavior after every test. I just feel tired and burned out all the time because I'm sick of preclinical school. Every clinical session we do perks up my attention and gets me all excited about medicine, so that's good for next year, but I'm so mentally done with sitting in lecture/reading and studying/take tests...repeat.

I'm not great at memorizing lists of facts. In undergrad I was an engineer and got by with minimal studying (just tons of projects, labwork and assignments...but these kept me focused for some reason), because there was very little to memorize. I would go to lecture, pay attention, do practice problems, and breeze by. I destroyed the mcat because it really is not a memorization test...it's more of a critical thinking/reading test. Step 1 is giving me nightmares because I realize it's all going down in the next 7 weeks. The strange thing is, even though I seem to forget everything after tests, since i've been studying for step 1 it DOES seem to all be coming back to me...I get random facts pop up here and there and apparently I'm retaining stuff somehow, so that gives me some hope.

So no, to answer the OP's original question, I think I actually have not YET adapted to medical school, and at this rate will be in the wards by the time I do. And then it's a completely different game anyway. Oh well...hopefully I'll destroy the step to make up for it.

Blade28 said:

The point is, though, that succeeding on your MS-III rotations relies on many skills that aren't tested for during the basic science years. "Playing the game," working in a team, knowing how to study in 15-20-minute blocks instead of a 6-hour block at the end of the day, taking overnight call, remaining interested and enthusiastic despite being on a difficult, uninteresting rotation - these are all new additions to any med student's skill set!

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A week ago when I was working at the free clinic, I was trying to figure out what kind of physiology topics earlier this year could prove relevant today when discussing pt treatment. However, we were a bit understaffed, so the M3 in charge of my team tossed the first patient folder into my clumsy hands and said "ok, you're in charge, take it away and don't make me look bad." As soon as I took the vitals, I then realized that I had never done a patient history on my own. Suddenly all that physiology and anatomy a few months ago didn't matter anymore. Dang the next 30 minutes were not very pretty.

you can still do the night-before-cram in medical school

jester384 said:

you can still do the night-before-cram in medical school

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I've done that repeatedly; I can pass that way, but I can't do well without keeping up with the material.

This is where PA programs definitely have traditional med school beat.
But it will come.
It gets better with practice.

Slide said:

A week ago when I was working at the free clinic, I was trying to figure out what kind of physiology topics earlier this year could prove relevant today when discussing pt treatment. However, we were a bit understaffed, so the M3 in charge of my team tossed the first patient folder into my clumsy hands and said "ok, you're in charge, take it away and don't make me look bad." As soon as I took the vitals, I then realized that I had never done a patient history on my own. Suddenly all that physiology and anatomy a few months ago didn't matter anymore. Dang the next 30 minutes were not very pretty.

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Blade28 said:

You do know that the etymology of the term "pimping" in medicine has nothing to do with the common slang usage nowadays, right?

http://www.neonatology.org/pearls/pimping.html

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awesome