I know an MA degree won't help... but can it hurt?

RuSkaya · Oct 24, 2008

I am in the middle of a one-year MA program while I apply to medical school. I have read that regular masters programs are an EC and a great grad GPA will not help... but I am afraid my grad GPA will be lower than my undergrad..

I am just wondering if this can hurt my application in the long run in case I will have to re-apply next year... which is a good possibility

Thanks!

armybound · Oct 24, 2008

yes, a bad graduate GPA can really hurt.

labgod · Oct 24, 2008

should be okay as long as you have a strong undergrad GPA

migm · Oct 24, 2008

I strongly disagree with an MA doesn't help. I have a 4.0 in my 2 year masters program, 32 MCAT with a low ugrad gpa (3.1ish sci) and I have had 4 interviews.

Go figure? But I think it has helped.

pianola · Oct 24, 2008

Depends. How low are we talking about?

njbmd · Oct 25, 2008

RuSkaya said:
I am in the middle of a one-year MA program while I apply to medical school. I have read that regular masters programs are an EC and a great grad GPA will not help... but I am afraid my grad GPA will be lower than my undergrad..

I am just wondering if this can hurt my application in the long run in case I will have to re-apply next year... which is a good possibility

Thanks!

A low graduate GPA can definitely hurt your application for medical school. When you undertake a graduate degree, it is expected that you love the course work and that you GPA will be much higher than your undergraduate GPA. Get those grades up because the a low graduate GPA can be a negative.

migm said:
I strongly disagree with an MA doesn't help. I have a 4.0 in my 2 year masters program, 32 MCAT with a low ugrad gpa (3.1ish sci) and I have had 4 interviews.

Go figure? But I think it has helped.

Interview does not equal acceptance (especially this year) with a high number of applicants and those applicants being more competitive. It's great that you have achieved well in your graduate degree but it's going to be weighted about the same as an extracurricular activity (in your case a good extracurricular activity).

At my two schools, what would have easily gotten an applicant an acceptance isn't even going to make waitlist. It's a very competitive year.

213965 · Oct 25, 2008

RuSkaya said:
I am in the middle of a one-year MA program while I apply to medical school. I have read that regular masters programs are an EC and a great grad GPA will not help... but I am afraid my grad GPA will be lower than my undergrad..

I am just wondering if this can hurt my application in the long run in case I will have to re-apply next year... which is a good possibility

Thanks!

If it's an SMP (which it sounds like it is), schools know how difficult these are (compared to getting a regular 2 year master's in say, sociology), and will therefore take that into consideration.

I'm in a similar situation as yousrelf and will also end up with a lower grad GPA than undergrad, but after speaking to many admissions faculty regarding this issue, they DO expect lower numbers considering how much harder it is compared to undergrad. However, I think >0.5 GPA drop may raise some red flags (was the applicant's undergrad "easy," will they not be able to adjust to 1st year medschool curriculum, etc.?) and try really hard not to get any C's, esp. if you never had any in undergrad. Good luck to you 👍

213965 · Oct 25, 2008

njbmd said:
At my two schools, what would have easily gotten an applicant an acceptance isn't even going to make waitlist. It's a very competitive year.

I agree with this statement, which is why I withdraw almost all my applications cycle despite this being my second time. I've noticed that even with a 3 pt MCAT increase, additional research publication, 2 new LOR's, and extra clinical experience that interview invites are even more scarce and rejections coming much more quickly than last cycle.

Law2Doc · Oct 25, 2008

rennykim said:
If it's an SMP (which it sounds like it is), schools know how difficult these are (compared to getting a regular 2 year master's in say, sociology), and will therefore take that into consideration.

I'm in a similar situation as yousrelf and will also end up with a lower grad GPA than undergrad, but after speaking to many admissions faculty regarding this issue, they DO expect lower numbers considering how much harder it is compared to undergrad. However, I think >0.5 GPA drop may raise some red flags (was the applicant's undergrad "easy," will they not be able to adjust to 1st year medschool curriculum, etc.?) and try really hard not to get any C's, esp. if you never had any in undergrad. Good luck to you 👍

Not sure I agree with you. The point of an SMP is that it is the closest demonstration of how well you will thrive on med school caliber courses. If you do poorly, it gives schools a pretty clear signal that you will likely do similarly poorly in med school. So no, they don't give you any benefit of the doubt that it is harder. They consider that the point of SMPs -- to see how you do in a simulation of med school. If you do badly, it probably hurts more, given that it shows them what you will do once accepted. This is why folks consider SMPs both valuable and risky. If you do well, it sends a message that you are ready for med school and have proved yourself, if you do poorly, kind of the opposite.

213965 · Oct 25, 2008

Law2Doc said:
Not sure I agree with you. The point of an SMP is that it is the closest demonstration of how well you will thrive on med school caliber courses. If you do poorly, it gives schools a pretty clear signal that you will likely do similarly poorly in med school. So no, they don't give you any benefit of the doubt that it is harder. They consider that the point of SMPs -- to see how you do in a simulation of med school. If you do badly, it probably hurts more, given that it shows them what you will do once accepted. This is why folks consider SMPs both valuable and risky. If you do well, it sends a message that you are ready for med school and have proved yourself, if you do poorly, kind of the opposite.

Yes, but keep in mind that many medschools have P/F for 1 or 2 years (70% which is considered a 2.0 on the GPA scale) so even something as low as a 3.25 GPA in SMP is still a B avg in "med school." I've been told as long as I don't fall below a 3.5 or 87-89% avg (in SMP) I should be fine but I guess the only way we'd know for sure is if I didn't get in this year and had to re-apply next year with the GPA drop. Let's hope this doesn't happen to me or OP :/

RuSkaya · Oct 25, 2008

Thanks for all of the feedback 🙂

This is not an SMP program it's a regular Masters degree in Biology

As far as how low the grad GPA can be... it is hard to say at this point since it is the first semester and I have one more to go
My grades so far are averaging a 3.0 in one class, and in another I was doing well until the midterm.. which I feel I really screwed up on
Two other classes - I cannot predict right now - do not have any grades so far

So as far as this semester... I would not be surprised if it went down between 3.0 and 3.5 .. and my ugrad GPA is a 3.68

I will do my best to bring these grades up by the end of the semester... and through the next semester

I am being paranoid!

Again, I appreciate all the feedback

njbmd · Oct 25, 2008

rennykim said:
Yes, but keep in mind that many medschools have P/F for 1 or 2 years (70% which is considered a 2.0 on the GPA scale) so even something as low as a 3.25 GPA in SMP is still a B avg in "med school." I've been told as long as I don't fall below a 3.5 or 87-89% avg (in SMP) I should be fine but I guess the only way we'd know for sure is if I didn't get in this year and had to re-apply next year with the GPA drop. Let's hope this doesn't happen to me or OP :/

SMP students are held to a higher standard than the regular medical students. Don't screw up in this program or you will tank your career fast. The idea behind the SMP is that it's your last chance to prove that you can cut medical school, not do the minimum to past. A 3.5 in an SMP is likely not going to be enough.

This is why SMPs are not a good idea if you can't devote plenty of time and energy to getting great grades. A 3.5 is not a great performance in an SMP. In terms of my two medical schools, you would not be admitted though I hope that you have other things in your application that can take you into other schools.

213965 · Oct 25, 2008

RuSkaya said:
Thanks for all of the feedback 🙂

This is not an SMP program it's a regular Masters degree in Biology

As far as how low the grad GPA can be... it is hard to say at this point since it is the first semester and I have one more to go
My grades so far are averaging a 3.0 in one class, and in another I was doing well until the midterm.. which I feel I really screwed up on
Two other classes - I cannot predict right now - do not have any grades so far

So as far as this semester... I would not be surprised if it went down between 3.0 and 3.5 .. and my ugrad GPA is a 3.68

I will do my best to bring these grades up by the end of the semester... and through the next semester

I am being paranoid!

Again, I appreciate all the feedback

I think if you kept at or above the 3.5 level, you should be fine (strong MCAT, EC's, etc. implied) 🙂

If it helps at all, my undergrad GPA was just a little higher than yours and my MCAT is definitely on the low end, yet I still had 3 MD interview invites this cycle (withdrew from all but 1) and received lots of love from the osteopathic route. If you really want to be a doctor you will definitely get there because it looks like you have the drive 👍

RuSkaya · Oct 25, 2008

rennykim said:
I think if you kept at or above the 3.5 level, you should be fine (strong MCAT, EC's, etc. implied) 🙂

If it helps at all, my undergrad GPA was just a little higher than yours and my MCAT is definitely on the low end, yet I still had 3 MD interview invites this cycle (withdrew from all but 1) and received lots of love from the osteopathic route. If you really want to be a doctor you will definitely get there because it looks like you have the drive 👍

Thanks a lot and good luck to you 🙂

I will definitely re-take the MCAT next year if there is no luck this cycle since mine is low as well

migm · Oct 25, 2008

njbmd said:
A low graduate GPA can definitely hurt your application for medical school. When you undertake a graduate degree, it is expected that you love the course work and that you GPA will be much higher than your undergraduate GPA. Get those grades up because the a low graduate GPA can be a negative.

Interview does not equal acceptance (especially this year) with a high number of applicants and those applicants being more competitive. It's great that you have achieved well in your graduate degree but it's going to be weighted about the same as an extracurricular activity (in your case a good extracurricular activity).

At my two schools, what would have easily gotten an applicant an acceptance isn't even going to make waitlist. It's a very competitive year.

I respectfully disagree, but time will tell. I targeted schools who seemed to have a higher percentage of non-traditional students, hoping that my graduate GPA would be noticed. I also have a strong upward trend in my grades as well as other significant skills and experiences that have probably played a role in getting to this point, but I do think that taking 30 credits of upper-level biology coursework at a top10 school (and achieving good grades) carries more weight then, say, volunteering for a local soup kitchen for a few years.

Schools want to see grades, they want to know that their investment in you is going to be a good one. While biology is what I love, and I'm expected to do well, you can't tell me that courses in medical school will be any different. Doing well in your upper level science oursework, alongside of other positive aspects in your application, will serve you well in my opinion.

That said -- this process is a complete crapshoot.

JeetKuneDo · Oct 25, 2008

I'll agree with some of the previous posters and say that it'll hurt if you don't get a decent gpa in it. Is this a research masters program?

RuSkaya · Oct 25, 2008

No it is not a research masters

It is course-work based

pianola · Oct 25, 2008

Well...this is going to be stupid advice but "try to get in this year if you can." Really make sure you do everything in your power to send positive updates to your schools and express interest.

Echoing rennykim, try to maintain a 3.5+ if possible. Remember you still have another semester, so do as well as you can now and focus on making your next semester even better.

Do you know if your next semester courses are going to be easier or harder?

RuSkaya · Oct 25, 2008

pianola said:
Well...this is going to be stupid advice but "try to get in this year if you can." Really make sure you do everything in your power to send positive updates to your schools and express interest.

Echoing rennykim, try to maintain a 3.5+ if possible. Remember you still have another semester, so do as well as you can now and focus on making your next semester even better.

Do you know if your next semester courses are going to be easier or harder?

I do not know yet what will be offered next semester.. but I will do my best to make it 3.5+ by the end of this semester and keep it up there next term.
I still have room for improvement - several more grades to be earned

pianola · Oct 25, 2008

Good luck! :luck:

RuSkaya · Oct 26, 2008

pianola said:
Good luck!

Thanks!

I know an MA degree won't help... but can it hurt?

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