Unofficial 2009 EM ROL Thread

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Old_Mil

Old_Mil

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Well everyone, tomorrow at noon the NRMP will start taking our submissions.

Anyone have a ROL made up yet?
 
STOP PRESSURING ME!!! AHHHHH!

😛

My mom asks me after every interview whether my ROL has changed. I now just refuse to discuss it...denial is a RIVER IN EGYPT!
 
i'm still interviewing, but i can say, very prematurely, that my ROL (whenever it's completed) will NEVER be disclosed here on SDN. When I match, I'll share where I'll be going 😀

until then, these lips are sealed 😉

(btw, since i tend to avoid reading these types of disclosure threads, i prob. won't return to this forum for quite some time. to everyone, i wish you all of the very best this Match season. )
 
Picking my #1 choice was easy. #2 was fairly easy as well.

It's the next couple that have gotten tricky.
 
I have very clear top half, a very clear bottom half, and 75% #1. The rest of the order is TBD.
 
*is jealous of your clarity*

My number-one and number-two are neck and neck. The only things separating them are ancillary "this-and-that" benefits.

Loyalty is a bit of a big deal for me. I'm stuck choosing between loyalty to the city that brought me in and made me what I am and loyalty to a program that screams "let us take you in and make you what you will be". I also have an army of friends/family at program/city "A" and nobody at program/city "B".

GRAH !
 
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Anyone considering not ranking a program? I interviewed at some places I don't really want to train, but I'd much rather be there than holding a "Will work for food" sign. What would be grounds for you to not rank a program? I can't really think of any (at least none that are realistic).
 
MeBeAnEP said:
Anyone considering not ranking a program? I interviewed at some places I don't really want to train, but I'd much rather be there than holding a "Will work for food" sign. What would be grounds for you to not rank a program? I can't really think of any (at least none that are realistic).
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ya im not ranking a few programs....

but making up the list after #2 is becoming a VERY tedious task.
 
MeBeAnEP said:
Anyone considering not ranking a program? I interviewed at some places I don't really want to train, but I'd much rather be there than holding a "Will work for food" sign. What would be grounds for you to not rank a program? I can't really think of any (at least none that are realistic).
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Not ranking a program essentially means you would rather scramble into another spot than be at that program or do another specialty. Given that there were so few open spots available for the scramble in EM last year, it is a pretty big chance to take if you don't rank all your programs. If there is a place you just absolutely could NEVER see yourself working and you'd rather scramble into an unknown position with no interview or try an open spot in family, internal medicine, etc.... then I would not rank them. Otherwise, I would rank all the programs and take your chances that you don't fall that far in the rank list.
 
My ROL is certified. Now the waiting begins... and they say 4th year is not stressful. Hah!
 
MeBeAnEP said:
Anyone considering not ranking a program? I interviewed at some places I don't really want to train, but I'd much rather be there than holding a "Will work for food" sign. What would be grounds for you to not rank a program? I can't really think of any (at least none that are realistic).
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Two aren't making my ROL. One just wasn't a good fit for me, not to take anything away from them.

The other was so bad, forget the RRC - I'm surprised that joint comission isn't breathing down the necks of the entire hospital.
 
i still have 3 more interviews to go! but my top 5 aren't changing anytime soon
 
I tend to like whatever program I interviewed at last the best.:scared:
 
drguy22 said:
ya im not ranking a few programs....

but making up the list after #2 is becoming a VERY tedious task.
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Dude, I totally agree! The first 2 were really easy for me... the rest is ridiculous and I have no idea. I'm glad we have until Feb 25th. Also ranking 9 progs, so I really hope that is enough 😉
 
I certified yesterday. Now comes the wait.
 
Looking at charting outcomes in the match, nine is fine.

My adviser pointed out that since there is a wide disparity in the residency class sizes (5-20, in my case), that it's probably better to count the number of total spots available rather than straight program #. He quoted 100 spots as a safe bet.
 
So is anyone else looking at weather as a factor? Some of the places that I interviewed are experiencing some of the worst winter weather in years. :scared:

Heh.
 
EvoDevo said:
So is anyone else looking at weather as a factor? Some of the places that I interviewed are experiencing some of the worst winter weather in years. :scared:

Heh.
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Weather is actually a consideration for me. Cold is one thing, gloom is another. I've looked up 'number of sunny days' for all of the places I interviewed.
 
Nah, I know that the weather evens out. When I made my application choices back in September, it was unbearably hot in the areas of the country that aren't getting snow right now!

Plus, weather seems like an incredibly trite thing to consider in making a career choice!
 
Trite to you perhaps, but important to me and, as seen above, at least one other person. There are plenty of great programs in areas with what I consider to be great weather, so I am not certain how my career is going to suffer. On the contrary, I think having a satisfying personal life could only be of benefit to my professional life.
 
SoCuteMD said:
...Plus, weather seems like an incredibly trite thing to consider in making a career choice!
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My time in the NE US has proven that I do worse in places with long, cold, dark winters. And I want to be able to exercise outside during my my time off. Given that there are good programs in every part of the country, I don't think "weather" or climate are poor factors for making a career choice.
 
hyperbaric said:
Trite to you perhaps, but important to me and, as seen above, at least one other person. There are plenty of great programs in areas with what I consider to be great weather, so I am not certain how my career is going to suffer. On the contrary, I think having a satisfying personal life could only be of benefit to my professional life.
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How much do these cities vary in number sunny days? The biggest difference I saw was about 30 days total between programs I interviewed at. Conservatively you will work about 20 days out of 30, so as a resident you will see 10 days of actual sunshine for every 30 additional days of sunshine. Some of those days you will spend post-overnight or post-call. Does an extra 10 days of sunshine/yr really make or break someone's happiness?

In the end, I found there were some much more training-related factors to consider. Perhaps this is a result of having rotated through 3 very different emergency departments and 8 different hospitals in the last year and a half - I know what to look for, and I know what affects resident happiness. Things like not having to fight medicine for admissions, being able to work with an EM "team" in the ICU, getting top notch ultrasound and tox training, being at a program where residents are close and don't just spend all their off time doing their own thing are probably going to have a lot more effect on my mood day in and day out than the occasional glimpse of sunshine.
 
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RxnMan said:
My time in the NE US has proven that I do worse in places with long, cold, dark winters. And I want to be able to exercise outside during my my time off. Given that there are good programs in every part of the country, I don't think "weather" or climate are poor factors for making a career choice.
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I'm a little perplexed as to why people think it's impossible to get outside in the cold. I've run outside at least 4x a week since the new year. It's honestly MUCH nicer IMO than running in 90 degree heat with 80% humidity - breathing is easier and you don't overheat. A pair of thermal running pants and a windproof jacket with a hood keep me plenty warm.

As an aside, I know you are in Albany which happens to have fewer sunny days than almost anywhere else in the Northeast (except Buffalo, ha!) according to this chart. Comparing Albany to, say, LA just seems cruel! On the other hand, when I looked at the cities I interviewed in (which are scattered and essentially exclude California) the difference is really only 30 days of sunshine a year. If you are talking an extra 120 days of sunshine then that's a really different story than 30 extra days.
 
I think you are either a weather person or you are not. I tend not to be, but it does start to get me down when every person from the security guard to the techs to the nurses complain about the cold/gloom all the frickin' time; not to mention the other residents. Some people just start their day off poorly when it is 10 degrees and you have to fight the blizzard on your way to work. As above, there are great programs everywhere, even in places where it is sunny.
 
SoCuteMD said:
I'm a little perplexed as to why people think it's impossible to get outside in the cold. I've run outside at least 4x a week since the new year. It's honestly MUCH nicer IMO than running in 90 degree heat with 80% humidity - breathing is easier and you don't overheat. A pair of thermal running pants and a windproof jacket with a hood keep me plenty warm.
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You must not have asthma 😉
 
SoCuteMD said:
I'm a little perplexed as to why people think it's impossible to get outside in the cold. I've run outside at least 4x a week since the new year. It's honestly MUCH nicer IMO than running in 90 degree heat with 80% humidity - breathing is easier and you don't overheat. A pair of thermal running pants and a windproof jacket with a hood keep me plenty warm...
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I agree that cold running is better than hot for the reasons you mentioned. I'm the guy who did snow camping and enjoyed it. 😎 But the streets and sidewalks here are icy, and stay icy all winter long: I'm more worried about slipping and falling. If anyone knows of a good pair of shoes and/or crampons for running, then PM me.

SoCuteMD said:
...Comparing Albany to, say, LA just seems cruel! On the other hand, when I looked at the cities I interviewed in (which are scattered and essentially exclude California) the difference is really only 30 days of sunshine a year. If you are talking an extra 120 days of sunshine then that's a really different story than 30 extra days.
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Before moving to ALB, I lived in CO. Yes, I'm talking about 120 extra days! :laugh:
 
RxnMan said:
I agree that cold running is better than hot for the reasons you mentioned. I'm the guy who did snow camping and enjoyed it. 😎 But the streets and sidewalks here are icy, and stay icy all winter long: I'm more worried about slipping and falling. If anyone knows of a good pair of shoes and/or crampons for running, then PM me.

Before moving to ALB, I lived in CO. Yes, I'm talking about 120 extra days! :laugh:
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Um, well, I hear Denver has a kick-ass residency! You'll work 6 days of 7, though, so there goes that sunlight again!!!! :laugh:
 
SoCuteMD said:
I do, in fact. And I find it's much better in the cold than in the heat.
Click to expand...

Last off-topic comment from me, and I'll let the thread resume. I am the opposite. I didn't even know people could breathe when it was cold out. (for that first minute of walking out the door)
 
SoCuteMD said:
How much do these cities vary in number sunny days? The biggest difference I saw was about 30 days total between programs I interviewed at. Conservatively you will work about 20 days out of 30, so as a resident you will see 10 days of actual sunshine for every 30 additional days of sunshine. Some of those days you will spend post-overnight or post-call. Does an extra 10 days of sunshine/yr really make or break someone's happiness?

In the end, I found there were some much more training-related factors to consider. Perhaps this is a result of having rotated through 3 very different emergency departments and 8 different hospitals in the last year and a half - I know what to look for, and I know what affects resident happiness. Things like not having to fight medicine for admissions, being able to work with an EM "team" in the ICU, getting top notch ultrasound and tox training, being at a program where residents are close and don't just spend all their off time doing their own thing are probably going to have a lot more effect on my mood day in and day out than the occasional glimpse of sunshine.
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Why you are getting so worked up about what types of things are important to others? People pick programs for all sorts of reasons. I think you are being ridiculous if you consider yourself more knowledgeable about "what affects residents happiness" than anyone else. Weather was mentioned as a consideration not an ultimate determination of program selection or rank list. As I said before, there are great programs (with all the things you mentioned) in places with what I consider to be great weather.

And, FYI, I rotated through 3 very different EDs and 6 different hospitals and there are >100 days of sunshine difference in two of my favorite programs.
 
SoCuteMD said:
Um, well, I hear Denver has a kick-ass residency! You'll work 6 days of 7, though, so there goes that sunlight again!!!! :laugh:
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A day of work does not exclude an evening or morning run. At least, it doesn't for me.
 
Okay, I'm prefacing this with a warning that i'm about to make a fairly crazy comment...

Am I the only one who wants to be, well, tortured a little during residency? I don't mean Bush-style 😀... I just mean that my biggest factors for choosing a program are things like "how chaotic is the ED?" Anyone else feel the same way - that you just want to be shoved into a war-zone ED and spend the next four years becoming the most bad-ass EM doc possible? The more I interview, this one aspect (plus feeling that the senior residents are 'strong' and that the faculty are interested in teaching and very tough and knowledgeable... and good ultrasound!) keeps coming up as my biggest deciding factor. Is this just crazy?
 
hyperbaric said:
Why you are getting so worked up about what types of things are important to others? People pick programs for all sorts of reasons. I think you are being ridiculous if you consider yourself more knowledgeable about "what affects residents happiness" than anyone else. Weather was mentioned as a consideration not an ultimate determination of program selection or rank list. As I said before, there are great programs (with all the things you mentioned) in places with what I consider to be great weather.

And, FYI, I rotated through 3 very different EDs and 6 different hospitals and there are >100 days of sunshine difference in two of my favorite programs.
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Haha, I have never been so far from worked up in my entire life. Living the 4th year dream, baby 😀! I thought I could make a contribution with an alternate viewpoint and some concrete number-crunching. I personally find a little bit of friendly debate stimulating and helpful in making me look at things from a different perspective. I guess other people feel differently, so no more contribution from me!

Ultimately, residency is a very personal choice. Different people have different priorities and make different choices. Heck, some people have the SAME priorities, visit the same programs, and reach different conclusions! I didn't intend to come off as critical (in retrospect, the word "trite" was probably not a good choice) and if I did then I apologize. Personally, for me, weather is not a factor in my decision-making.
 
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quideam said:
Okay, I'm prefacing this with a warning that i'm about to make a fairly crazy comment...

Am I the only one who wants to be, well, tortured a little during residency? I don't mean Bush-style 😀... I just mean that my biggest factors for choosing a program are things like "how chaotic is the ED?" Anyone else feel the same way - that you just want to be shoved into a war-zone ED and spend the next four years becoming the most bad-ass EM doc possible? The more I interview, this one aspect (plus feeling that the senior residents are 'strong' and that the faculty are interested in teaching and very tough and knowledgeable... and good ultrasound!) keeps coming up as my biggest deciding factor. Is this just crazy?
Click to expand...

I, personally, shy away from the "war zone" ED for a number of reasons. But yes, I feel similarly. When I walk out of residency and into my attending job, I want my colleagues (and hopefully the residents I teach) to see me as someone who can handle anything while keeping her cool. OTOH - I wouldn't necessarily use the word "tortured' to describe what I'm seeking, as I've definitely seen several kinder/gentler EM programs that I feel would get me where I want to be. These next 3-4 years are the foundation of my career IMO, better use them wisely!
 
SoCuteMD said:
Haha, I have never been so far from worked up in my entire life. Living the 4th year dream, baby 😀! I thought I could make a contribution with an alternate viewpoint and some concrete number-crunching. I personally find a little bit of friendly debate stimulating and helpful in making me look at things from a different perspective. I guess other people feel differently, so no more contribution from me!
Click to expand...

It wasn't your alternative viewpoint that was unfriendly - it was your description of our perspective as 'trite'. Your numbers may have been concrete for your favorite programs, but they were way off base from mine.

Whatever, the case I'm glad you are enjoying 4th year. I hope you've found the perfect program for what is important to you. Good luck in the match.
 
hyperbaric said:
It wasn't your alternative viewpoint that was unfriendly - it was your description of our perspective as 'trite'. Your numbers may have been concrete for your favorite programs, but they were way off base from mine.

Whatever, the case I'm glad you are enjoying 4th year. I hope you've found the perfect program for what is important to you. Good luck in the match.
Click to expand...

Sorry I quoted before you edited.
 
quideam said:
Okay, I'm prefacing this with a warning that i'm about to make a fairly crazy comment...

Am I the only one who wants to be, well, tortured a little during residency? I don't mean Bush-style 😀... I just mean that my biggest factors for choosing a program are things like "how chaotic is the ED?" Anyone else feel the same way - that you just want to be shoved into a war-zone ED and spend the next four years becoming the most bad-ass EM doc possible? The more I interview, this one aspect (plus feeling that the senior residents are 'strong' and that the faculty are interested in teaching and very tough and knowledgeable... and good ultrasound!) keeps coming up as my biggest deciding factor. Is this just crazy?
Click to expand...

Nah, doesn't sound crazy to me. Though I'm finding that some places that meet that description seem like a good fit and others don't. I'd add to your requirements that the residents are all there because they want to be, and are enthusiastic about their program. Also, I want good peds experience.

Residents who are enthusiastic because a program is "chill" or because it pays really well are a big turnoff.
 
LadyGrey said:
Nah, doesn't sound crazy to me. Though I'm finding that some places that meet that description seem like a good fit and others don't. I'd add to your requirements that the residents are all there because they want to be, and are enthusiastic about their program. Also, I want good peds experience.

Residents who are enthusiastic because a program is "chill" or because it pays really well are a big turnoff.
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Alternatively, and I'm not sure this is entirely contrary to quideam's original comment, I found that when I interviewed I came across a couple of programs who had the philosophy: "We want you to enjoy residency. We want these to be positive and meaningful years in your life. When you're done, we want you to be SAD to go." That really struck a chord with me. That was the experience I wanted, and the type of people with whom I wanted to spend the next 3-4 years. Just because you're signing on to a rigorous training program doesn't mean you have to sign your late twenties (or whatever age) away. Of course, being "tortured" might be the type of positive and meaningful experience you're looking for! 😉
 
quideam said:
Okay, I'm prefacing this with a warning that i'm about to make a fairly crazy comment...

Am I the only one who wants to be, well, tortured a little during residency? I don't mean Bush-style 😀... I just mean that my biggest factors for choosing a program are things like "how chaotic is the ED?" Anyone else feel the same way - that you just want to be shoved into a war-zone ED and spend the next four years becoming the most bad-ass EM doc possible? The more I interview, this one aspect (plus feeling that the senior residents are 'strong' and that the faculty are interested in teaching and very tough and knowledgeable... and good ultrasound!) keeps coming up as my biggest deciding factor. Is this just crazy?
Click to expand...


Haha, well I wouldn't say I'd like to be tortured.... but I definitely want to be worked during residency. Basically, go from hard to easy...not the other way around 😉
 
GoBuckeyes913 said:
Haha, well I wouldn't say I'd like to be tortured.... but I definitely want to be worked during residency. Basically, go from hard to easy...not the other way around 😉
Click to expand...

Spoken like a medical student. It's one thing to be challenged. It's another thing to be beaten down and sucked under.
 
I am not posting my list until Match day has come and gone. Sorry...
 
Hard24Get said:
This thread is USELESS WITHOUT LISTS!!!!
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It's still early...well atleast for me as I haven't put my list together yet...but I will post when I do...and it will be before match day.
 
xaelia said:
Spoken like a medical student. It's one thing to be challenged. It's another thing to be beaten down and sucked under.
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I'm not quite sure how to take this so I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

I'm expecting to be beaten down and sucked under during residency. I'm not going to enjoy it, but I wouldn't want it any other way.
 
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