Navy Match Statistics

ActiveDutyNavy · Mar 7, 2009

is there anyone who can post the recent Navy GME 2+ match statistics? the only site i've found requires a password, which of course i don't have.

thanks

narcusprince · Mar 8, 2009

What specific field are you looking in???

BigNavyPedsGuy · Mar 8, 2009

They don't publish statistics. They publish results (i.e. who got what spots), but there's no way to know how many people applied for those ENT or Peds spots. You also can't tell who's done a GMO and who hasn't just by looking at the results.

So, basically, the only way to find out a given field is to ask people in that specialty about it.

ActiveDutyNavy · Mar 8, 2009

BigNavyPedsGuy said:
They don't publish statistics. They publish results (i.e. who got what spots), but there's no way to know how many people applied for those ENT or Peds spots. You also can't tell who's done a GMO and who hasn't just by looking at the results.

So, basically, the only way to find out a given field is to ask people in that specialty about it.

ok, i thought a year or two ago i saw a table of applicant per spot ratio of each given specialty. i guess not.

does anyone have any information on IM or EM from the most recent GME 2+ Match?

thanks for the help

pgg · Mar 8, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
ok, i thought a year or two ago i saw a table of applicant per spot ratio of each given specialty. i guess not.

does anyone have any information on IM or EM from the most recent GME 2+ Match?

https://nmmpte.med.navy.mil/gmeapplication/secure/ResultsList.asp

The GMESB results are the only published data I'm aware of.

tsbuqh · Mar 9, 2009

Here is the data from that website in a slightly easier to use format.

View attachment mil match.xls

Gastrapathy · Mar 9, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
ok, i thought a year or two ago i saw a table of applicant per spot ratio of each given specialty. i guess not.

does anyone have any information on IM or EM from the most recent GME 2+ Match?

thanks for the help

IM was essentially 100% for current GMOs and 66% for current interns.

Floater268 · Mar 9, 2009

So by these numbers, the match rate for orthopedics is high, ~74%. That's not too much different from the civilian match rate. Whats the chance that someone will be pulled out of their residency for active duty?

Are there certain specialties that historically match better into PGY-2 than others based on critical care needs?

ActiveDutyNavy · Mar 9, 2009

Floater268 said:
So by these numbers, the match rate for orthopedics is high, ~74%. That's not too much different from the civilian match rate. Whats the chance that someone will be pulled out of their residency for active duty?

Are there certain specialties that historically match better into PGY-2 than others based on critical care needs?

the way i understand it...this information doesn't give you the amount of applicants that applied nor the amount of applicants that are previous GMO or interns.

so ~74% match rate for ortho is probably much less

Gastrapathy · Mar 9, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
the way i understand it...this information doesn't give you the amount of applicants that applied nor the amount of applicants that are previous GMO or interns.

so ~74% match rate for ortho is probably much less

All you see are the people selected for training or selected to be an alternate. There is no way of knowing who applied but wasn't selected for either. The PDs can give you a general sense of a given specialty when you rotate but there is always a great deal of year to year variability.

ActiveDutyNavy · Mar 9, 2009

Gastrapathy said:
IM was essentially 100% for current GMOs and 66% for current interns.

anyone have any similar data about EM?

thanks to all who commented

ActiveDutyNavy · Apr 12, 2009

this is the kind of list/data i was looking for.....does anyone have similar data from the most recent match?

another question: say for instance i wanted to do EM or IM, what internship would be best? (medicine, transitional, or others)

stonewall22 · Apr 12, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
this is the kind of list/data i was looking for.....does anyone have similar data from the most recent match?

another question: say for instance i wanted to do EM or IM, what internship would be best? (medicine, transitional, or others)

Wait, wait, wait...back up the bus, are you telling me there were more than 600 applicants for ~200+ spots?! :scared:

Please tell me I'm missing something!

ActiveDutyNavy · Apr 12, 2009

yes and no.

from my understanding, all applications were counted. Even if it was someone's 4th or 5th choice.

so 1 person could apply for IM, EM, GS, FM, and Urology and it would count as 5 applicants.

stonewall22 · Apr 12, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
yes and no.

from my understanding, all applications were counted. Even if it was someone's 4th or 5th choice.

so 1 person could apply for IM, EM, GS, FM, and Urology and it would count as 5 applicants.

That makes MUCH more sense.

NavyFP · Apr 13, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
yes and no.

from my understanding, all applications were counted. Even if it was someone's 4th or 5th choice.

so 1 person could apply for IM, EM, GS, FM, and Urology and it would count as 5 applicants.

You are only allowed to apply for 2 different specialties.

Gastrapathy · Apr 13, 2009

ActiveDutyNavy said:
this is the kind of list/data i was looking for.....does anyone have similar data from the most recent match?

another question: say for instance i wanted to do EM or IM, what internship would be best? (medicine, transitional, or others)

If you were sure you wanted EM vice IM, I would say to do a transitional internship. However, only an IM internship will count fully towards IM board certification. Any other internship and you should plan on spending 6 mo as an IM "resitern" to meet requirements. So, if you think you might want IM, you probably should do an IM internship.

janneyc · Apr 14, 2009

So, would it be correct to read that 44 people applied for ortho positions in 2007 with 12 available spots (all getting filled). Would it be possible that some of these people also were competing for the 11 general surg spots?

ActiveDutyNavy · Apr 14, 2009

janneyc said:
So, would it be correct to read that 44 people applied for ortho positions in 2007 with 12 available spots (all getting filled). Would it be possible that some of these people also were competing for the 11 general surg spots?

the way that it was explained to me, yes

pgg · Apr 15, 2009

stonewall22 said:
Wait, wait, wait...back up the bus, are you telling me there were more than 600 applicants for ~200+ spots?!

Please tell me I'm missing something!

Those 699 applicants were certainly a mixture of both interns and GMOs ... likely a mix looking something like
- 300 current interns (terrible odds for most specialties)
- 300 current GMOs in the final year of their orders (best odds)
- 100 current GMOs hoping to get a residency slot AND get OK'd to leave GMO-land a year early (not so great odds, but it happens)

So compared to the civilian match, in which the vast majority of residency applicants in a year are from the same class, in the military you've got people from multiple classes (ie, med school graduating year groups) applying at the same time.

Typically almost all of the residency slots go to GMOs, with very few going to interns. Odds of matching to a residency as you're finishing up your GMO are reasonably good for most specialties.

The White Coat Investor · Apr 15, 2009

If you put EM and IM on your list you'll be put in IM and the military will claim you got what you wanted.

Gastrapathy · Apr 15, 2009

ActiveDutyMD said:
If you put EM and IM on your list you'll be put in IM and the military will claim you got what you wanted.

Not true. Each specialty runs its own selection board for GME2. So, whether he does or doesn't select for EM will have no bearing on whether he selects for IM. If he's applying right out of internship, he's likely to only get offered IM (if either) but not from any conspiracy. Post-GMO, he'll have a good shot at being picked for both. Applying to multiple fields can sometimes be viewed negatively but it certainly isn't always. Look at the IM subspecialty selections from last year. There are people who were selected for more than one fellowship! Several years ago, a friend of mine was selected for both ENT and GS.

Besides, he's Navy so this is a moot point. He is only applying for internship and by the time he's applying for residency, he will probably know what he wants.

ActiveDutyNavy · Jul 15, 2009

Does anyone have any data on the mean Step I scores of various specialties in the Navy?

I know the Army has released their most recent match data comparing scores and specialties.

NoMoreAMCAS · Jul 16, 2009

pgg said:
Typically almost all of the residency slots go to GMOs, with very few going to interns. Odds of matching to a residency as you're finishing up your GMO are reasonably good for most specialties.

So, what would you put the odds of a medical student getting a residency spot and going straight though in training at? From what you wrote it sounds as if nearly every medical student entering the Navy will do a GMO tour.

NavyFP · Jul 16, 2009

NoMoreAMCAS said:
So, what would you put the odds of a medical student getting a residency spot and going straight though in training at? From what you wrote it sounds as if nearly every medical student entering the Navy will do a GMO tour.

If I had to put a number on it - 2/3rds. Last year though it was about half.

NoMoreAMCAS · Jul 16, 2009

NavyFP said:
If I had to put a number on it - 2/3rds. Last year though it was about half.

1/2 or 2/3rds of students getting a residency spot right out of medical school sounds like decent odds to me. Thanks for the info. The way most people talk I thought it would be something like only 10% going straight through in training.

NavyFP · Jul 17, 2009

NoMoreAMCAS said:
1/2 or 2/3rds of students getting a residency spot right out of medical school sounds like decent odds to me. Thanks for the info. The way most people talk I thought it would be something like only 10% going straight through in training.

Sorry, it is 2/3 going on to do a GMO tour.

There are typically 250 graduating interns. There are about 225 R2 positions. Navy GME wants at least 90 going straight through. Last year it was 122 (which is about half of the graduating interns).

BOHICA-FIGMO · Jul 17, 2009

NavyFP said:
Sorry, it is 2/3 going on to do a GMO tour.

There are typically 250 graduating interns. There are about 225 R2 positions. Navy GME wants at least 90 going straight through. Last year it was 122 (which is about half of the graduating interns).

Just curious, what is the Navy going to do about insanely popular specialties like EM? About 20 people in my intern class want to do EM. I assume 18-19 or the 20 will do GMO tours. I also assume a lot of current GMOs want to do EM. How many people are going to have to do 2 or even 3 GMO tours before they get their residency of choice?

xmsr3 · Jul 18, 2009

Looking at the 2007 matches I find it interesting that OB/GYN was almost 100% match as was Psych.

Heck even radiology, which I had heard was crazy competative was only about 2:1 applicant/acceptee ratio almost as good as IM.

So it does look like Navy offers a good variety of specialties and a decent shot at a program of one's choice, especially after a GMO tour. I know that is a deal breaker for some, putting aside their residency for 2 years, but if you don't mind the interruption the Navy dosn't look so bad.

Of course I may be way off. Anyone else pleasently surprised at the Navy matches data?

NavyFP · Jul 18, 2009

BOHICA-FIGMO said:
Just curious, what is the Navy going to do about insanely popular specialties like EM? About 20 people in my intern class want to do EM. I assume 18-19 or the 20 will do GMO tours. I also assume a lot of current GMOs want to do EM. How many people are going to have to do 2 or even 3 GMO tours before they get their residency of choice?

What will typically happen to the 20 is: 5 will complete their time and go civilian. 10 will get picked up after one GMO tour. 5 will end up choosing another specialty.

EM has not been insanely popular in recent past. Popular, yes, but not insanely so.

SeminoleFan3 · Jul 18, 2009

NavyFP, how do board scores play into the whole process? Would a good set of scores set you up better to train straight through? Also, what Navy specialities require a prelim year (and does this predispose to doing a GMO tour before continuing on)?

pgg · Jul 18, 2009

SeminoleFan3 said:
NavyFP, how do board scores play into the whole process? Would a good set of scores set you up better to train straight through? Also, what Navy specialities require a prelim year (and does this predispose to doing a GMO tour before continuing on)?

Good board scores help, but alone they're not sufficient to overcome the GMO advantage. Returning GMOs, by virtue of having a pulse, are simply eligible for many more points than interns. They have points for a completed internship, completion of Step 3, and of course for the GMO tour itself. The system is not set up to permit outstanding interns to get a position over a GMO.

The only way an intern will get the nod over a GMO is if (a) the service has mandated that a certain number of residency slots will go to interns, or (b) there's an extraordinary perfect storm of prior service, grades, board scores, & multiple peer-reviewed publications favoring the intern and a weak GMO.

(a) is happening, to a limited degree, in some specialties.

BOHICA-FIGMO · Jul 19, 2009

NavyFP said:
EM has not been insanely popular in recent past. Popular, yes, but not insanely so.

I've been told by some that it's insane to want ot do EM 😉

SeminoleFan3 · Jul 19, 2009

pgg said:
Good board scores help, but alone they're not sufficient to overcome the GMO advantage. Returning GMOs, by virtue of having a pulse, are simply eligible for many more points than interns. They have points for a completed internship, completion of Step 3, and of course for the GMO tour itself. The system is not set up to permit outstanding interns to get a position over a GMO.

The only way an intern will get the nod over a GMO is if (a) the service has mandated that a certain number of residency slots will go to interns, or (b) there's an extraordinary perfect storm of prior service, grades, board scores, & multiple peer-reviewed publications favoring the intern and a weak GMO.

(a) is happening, to a limited degree, in some specialties.

Thanks for the info. There wa a sheet floating around here a few months ago with the points breakdown that gets used. Does anyone have that?

backrow · Jul 19, 2009

xmsr3 said:
Looking at the 2007 matches I find it interesting that OB/GYN was almost 100% match as was Psych.

Heck even radiology, which I had heard was crazy competative was only about 2:1 applicant/acceptee ratio almost as good as IM.

So it does look like Navy offers a good variety of specialties and a decent shot at a program of one's choice, especially after a GMO tour. I know that is a deal breaker for some, putting aside their residency for 2 years, but if you don't mind the interruption the Navy dosn't look so bad.

Of course I may be way off. Anyone else pleasently surprised at the Navy matches data?

The problem isn't people not getting their specialty of choice. The complaint is not going straight through. I would venture to guess that getting your specialty of choice (eventually) is easier in the Navy than in the civilian world for some specialties and applicants. (wow that was a really broad statement). I guess what I would say is that a mid-tier applicant will have an easier time getting a more "desirable" residency in the Navy than in the civilian world where you pretty much get one shot at it. In the Navy doing a GMO tour (or two/three) allows you multiple attempts at applying.

jult24er · Jul 21, 2009

pgg said:
Good board scores help, but alone they're not sufficient to overcome the GMO advantage. Returning GMOs, by virtue of having a pulse, are simply eligible for many more points than interns. They have points for a completed internship, completion of Step 3, and of course for the GMO tour itself. The system is not set up to permit outstanding interns to get a position over a GMO.

The only way an intern will get the nod over a GMO is if (a) the service has mandated that a certain number of residency slots will go to interns, or (b) there's an extraordinary perfect storm of prior service, grades, board scores, & multiple peer-reviewed publications favoring the intern and a weak GMO.

(a) is happening, to a limited degree, in some specialties.

Interesting. Any suggestions for how to find out in what specialties, and to what degree, (a) is happening? Do you know if its relatively stable from year-to-year? Thanks.

jult24er · Jul 21, 2009

SeminoleFan3 said:
Thanks for the info. There wa a sheet floating around here a few months ago with the points breakdown that gets used. Does anyone have that?

That would be great to see.

backrow · Jul 21, 2009

jult24er said:
Interesting. Any suggestions for how to find out in what specialties, and to what degree, (a) is happening? Do you know if its relatively stable from year-to-year? Thanks.

FP & Psych and possibly one more, as yet unnamed, specialty according to Admiral Roberts at a recent meeting.

backrow · Jul 21, 2009

jult24er said:
That would be great to see.

Google can be amazing sometimes, people should try it out every once in a while 🙂
/sarcasm

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ActiveDutyNavy · Dec 11, 2009

figured I'd bump this thread for next week.

Good Luck to all

If anyone gets a hold of any new information feel free to post it

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