my advice on how to get a perfect score on orgo and chem

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hey guys, for those that didnt read my other thread, I got a perfect score on chem, orgo, and PAT yesterday. I just wanted to give advice on chem and orgo in a thread to bypass PMs ive been getting.

for both sections, I think the best method would be to make sure you have your old orgo and chem text books so that you can use them to review material you dont fully grasp. To determine what material you dont fully grasp, purchase the American Chemical Society's review books for both subjects. ACS has a few diff books so to clarify, these are the thin white books with practice questions (with explanations for the first 10 or so per subject) broken into different subject areas. The reason I recommend this is because the questions in the review books are very similar in style to the questions (per my test experience) found on the actual DAT (and I wouldnt be suprised if ACS is where they outsource the questions from either).

step by step process:

1)go through ACS book and write down your answer choices in a notebook and be organized enough to keep track of which chapter and which subject book the answer choices are from. it is very important to stay organized so you will stay efficient. DO NOT WRITE IN YOUR ACS BOOK! If you are not 100% confident in your answer then put a question mark there and go to the next question. DO NOT MAKE EDUCATED GUESSES! If you get the answer right based on an educated guess, you will be masking a weakness because then you wont review a potential problem area. If there is ANY doubt in your mind AT ANY LEVEL then you should put a question mark for that problem number and move on.

2)once you complete first chapter questions, check your answers and circle in red any question marks or wrong answers. Do this neatly so you can keep track of answers you missed for later reference.

3)if you can clearly determine why you missed it, go to another page in your book and write down review area topics. for example, if you had a problem in chem that asked about vapor pressure above a solution and you missed it because you confused some of the gas properties then you need to objectively ask yourself if it is a specific mistake on your part or an overall uncomfortable feeling with that subject. for example, if you feel uncomfortable with gas properties/laws, dont tell yourself you missed it because of a particular property when the real problem is your much more broad and overall understanding of gases as a whole. the first assumption only requres review of THAT law which may be 1 page in your book. if you are lacking in that overall subject then you are better off reading ANYTHING/EVERYTHING related to vapor pressure. so if it is an overall lack you might write down in your TOPICS TO REVIEW page "review gas properties and then review vapor pressure properties specifically" as a note that you need to review ALL that material and then AFTER you feel good there, review vapor pressure specifically.

4)once youve written down review topics for all wrong/questionable answers for a particular chapter in the acs review book you want to start addressing them one at a time in your class text book. DO NOT USE REVIEW BOOKS FOR SPECIFIC AREAS OF WEAKNESS. most review books are littered with errors, if you arent strong enough in that subject area to catch them then you will be teaching yourself bad information. an example of this is in Kaplans review book they say that melting point decreases with increased branching (orgo) and that is CLEARLY wrong. there is much more error checking in text books since there are usually alot more names/reputations on the line. use this to your advantage since that means that review material is much more likely to be accurate.

5)once youve read through and feel comfortable with the weak points youve written down, start doing practice problems at the end of the sections/chapters for those review points. DO NOT DO THE PRACTICE PROBLEMS IMMEDIATELY AFTER READING! try to put some reading time in other areas before doing practice problems for the previous reading. I say this because many people have good short term retention and will get the problems right immediately after reading it, but if you make them wait 3-4 hours and put some other material in between that previous material and its questions, they will perform lower. you dont want to get a false sense of confidence about a section so I cant stress this part enough.

6)be prepared to make the same mistakes a few times. this is an opportunity to reinforce the proper concepts since every time you repeat the same mistake you will get more frustrated about screwing it up repeatedly and will be more likely to not make that mistake on the real thing since youll have a lot of practice on that one problem area.

7)once you have done this for every chapter in both ACS books, go back and redo both books from start to finish and keep track of the problems you missed and start the process all over. if you did your job right the first time around, you should only miss a couple and upon reviewing your mistakes you will probably find that most of the mistakes made were careless ones and not ones directly related to your lack of knowledge. this gives you a chance to address any careless habits you may have. as an example, i repeatedly missed osmotic pressure and boiling/melting point changes when involving molecules that dissociate because I always forgot to account for their dissociation and immediately jumped to calculations. this drilled into my head that i needed to pay very close attention to that area since i habitually skipped over that. I HAD 2 QUESTIONS ON THE DAT CHEM SECTION THAT INVOLVED CALCULATIONS WHERE MOLECULES DISSOCIATED. I dont think thats normal but I do think it points out just how lucky I was to actually make sure I took the time to repeatedly drill the correct method into my head.


LAST NOTE: the chem and orgo sections are not hard. to be perfectly honest, they were both a bit of a joke. i had 1-2 legitimately hard questions in both sections and then the rest of the questions were very basic. i think a lot more people would get 27-30 on these 2 sections if they just took the time to actively learn material and feel comfortable with it instead of learning it enough so that they didnt feel uncomfortable. working until you dont have negative feelings isnt sufficient to be truly competitive. you need to work until you have not only gotten rid of the negative feelings but have actually replaced them with positive ones. if at any time on any of the practice tests (topscore and kaplan are very representative) you reach ANY questions that dont make you think "what? what a f*cking joke! a 5 year old could do this!" then you dont know the material at the level of someone who will score a 27-30.

ACTUAL LAST NOTE (related to review materials): DAT Achiever=worthless pile of crap. DAT Destroyer=very good in some areas but riddled with errors. Only purchase Destroyer if you can get it used, it isnt worth anywhere near what Dr. Romano asks for it new. DAT Destroyer's Odyssey (complementary orgo book)= this book is essentially a direct knockoff of ACS review book. difference? its 5 times the price and is littered with errors just like Destroyer.
 
I can't find them on amazon.com. Where did u purchase them? from a website or bookstore.
 
I can't find them on amazon.com. Where did u purchase them? from a website or bookstore.

http://www4.uwm.edu/chemexams/order/2008_SG_form_ISU.pdf


only link i could find. ACS is a bit oldschool with their ordering. i saw some people selling their used organic review books on amazon for twice the price that ACS sells for them new simply because of how hard they are to get ahold of (people forget how to send faxes or call orders in these days, lol)
 
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This sounds like REAL advice. I like it a lot and think this is exactly what I'm going to do because I need a lot of help in the chem sections.

So do you recommend Destroyer at all? I bought it used and haven't gone through much of it. Should I scrap it for now and get these study guides?
 
Great advice.. Thanks..

Just have a quick question... I am taking DAT around May 20th.
Do you think there is an enough time to go over both Ocehm and Gchem?
 
Thanks for the run-down, I will definitely consider it when making my DAT study plans. I finish classes May 1 and my test is July 1 so I have 2 full months of studying...how much of that time will I need to spend to accomplish the studying you've outlined here? How long did it take you?
 
in response to most of your questions about time frame; I really couldnt give you an estimate since it depends on how many areas you need review in and how quickly you learn (which is often related to how much you like the material). any answer i give you would be biased towards my experience which would be entirely irrelavent since no one is exactly like me.
 
Great advice.. Thanks..

Just have a quick question... I am taking DAT around May 20th.
Do you think there is an enough time to go over both Ocehm and Gchem?


that would be plenty of time for myself but i dont know your study habits or learning ability so i really couldnt give you an accurate answer. seems like you should have enough time for both though.
 
that would be plenty of time for myself but i dont know your study habits or learning ability so i really couldnt give you an accurate answer. seems like you should have enough time for both though.

Don't they have online order or something? I think if I send order form, it takes extra days to get there.....🙁

I tried to call them but no one answered ...


Anyway, I have gone through Destroyer 3 times and have basic ideas.. So hopefully, it should take no longer than 40days !
 
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Whateveryoulike,
1. How much experience in the chemistries do you have? That is, I suppose you are very good and tutored at the university or what?
I am trying to get some real perspective for us mortals here😉, since speaking for my self, I do not have good background in both subjects.
2. In that case, and in the case that I already have the Destroyer and the Odyssey (I know it is abundant with mistakes, but others have managed somehow😉), should I stick with them (I paid for it too 😳)?
3. And another question. How much time did it take you to study for PAT? 4. Did you study ONLY from CDP or other too?
Thanks a bunch.
 
Whateveryoulike,
1. How much experience in the chemistries do you have? That is, I suppose you are very good and tutored at the university or what?
I am trying to get some real perspective for us mortals here😉, since speaking for my self, I do not have good background in both subjects.
2. In that case, and in the case that I already have the Destroyer and the Odyssey (I know it is abundant with mistakes, but others have managed somehow😉), should I stick with them (I paid for it too 😳)?
3. And another question. How much time did it take you to study for PAT? 4. Did you study ONLY from CDP or other too?
Thanks a bunch.

all of my PAT studying was done with CrackPAT with topscore tests as a pretty accurate verification of where i stood in PAT as well. if you could only buy one prog for PAT though, it would def be CrackPAT. I got the full premium pack with all the extra angle ranking, etc.

destroyer is fine, i just dog it a lot because i think Dr. Romano is a crook for charging as much as he does without even taking the time to error check his garbage product. the word garbage may be harsh but its deserving when you charge hundreds for a book that costs 3-4 bucks to print and then dont even respect your customers enough to proofread it. its definately worth using if you can get one for a good deal, just not worth the brand new price. since youve already got it, use it for sure.
 
I ordered them today! 🙂

Thanks for the great info again.,... Just one more question..

Did you study both Gchem and Ochem on the same day or finish one then start the other?

And the level of difficulty is similar to actual DAT? ( You mentioned that the styles are very similar..)


Thanks !
 
all of my PAT studying was done with CrackPAT with topscore tests as a pretty accurate verification of where i stood in PAT as well. if you could only buy one prog for PAT though, it would def be CrackPAT. I got the full premium pack with all the extra angle ranking, etc.

destroyer is fine, i just dog it a lot because i think Dr. Romano is a crook for charging as much as he does without even taking the time to error check his garbage product. the word garbage may be harsh but its deserving when you charge hundreds for a book that costs 3-4 bucks to print and then dont even respect your customers enough to proofread it. its definately worth using if you can get one for a good deal, just not worth the brand new price. since youve already got it, use it for sure.
Thanks for the reply.
You are absolutely right about the Destroyer's customer service, except I am not able to find his mistakes😛, that's why I'll have to take it for what it is. Hehe. May be you can make a chemistry book...
I am sorry if this question is redundant but all the info as of how to do the problems in PAT is inside CPD?
And how long did it take you to study for PAT?
 
all of my PAT studying was done with CrackPAT with topscore tests as a pretty accurate verification of where i stood in PAT as well. if you could only buy one prog for PAT though, it would def be CrackPAT. I got the full premium pack with all the extra angle ranking, etc.

destroyer is fine, i just dog it a lot because i think Dr. Romano is a crook for charging as much as he does without even taking the time to error check his garbage product. the word garbage may be harsh but its deserving when you charge hundreds for a book that costs 3-4 bucks to print and then dont even respect your customers enough to proofread it. its definately worth using if you can get one for a good deal, just not worth the brand new price. since youve already got it, use it for sure.

Hey congrats on your scores. Your hard work has really paid off. I have a question regarding PAT. What is your strategy for top, front and end view, Pattern folding and keyholes. I am good at the angle ranging and hole punching. I would really appreciate all your help. Thanks.
 
ACTUAL LAST NOTE (related to review materials): DAT Achiever=worthless pile of crap. DAT Destroyer=very good in some areas but riddled with errors. Only purchase Destroyer if you can get it used, it isnt worth anywhere near what Dr. Romano asks for it new. DAT Destroyer's Odyssey (complementary orgo book)= this book is essentially a direct knockoff of ACS review book. difference? its 5 times the price and is littered with errors just like Destroyer.


this is some AWESOME advice right here 👍
 
So the ACS books are just practice questions? (I would prefer it they were) or are they review books with practice questions?
 
Thanks so much for the tips! I'll definitely be ordering copies of those study guides.

Do you know if there are any similar materials for a biology review? I took a Kaplan practice test recently and did terrible in that section! It's just so broad...

Thanks again!
 
Thanks so much for the tips! I'll definitely be ordering copies of those study guides.

Do you know if there are any similar materials for a biology review? I took a Kaplan practice test recently and did terrible in that section! It's just so broad...

Thanks again!

not really any definite source for bio. the bio section really is quite broad. i read my bio book back to front almost 2 full times and still got around 4 questions regarding things I had never even heard of. i would just recommend put equal study time into everything until you are solid with chem and orgo, then just do maitenance practice to keep you retaining those 2 while you go hardcore on bio. thats what i did.
 
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Thanks for the post. I had been planning on Kaplan/Destroyer for a long time (currently working on Kaplan). Within 15 minutes of reading this, I placed my order for ACS and am digging for my old chem books. Your advice frankly is obvious but brilliant. Of course text books would be the best study guide, but few are ambitious enough to use them due to their sheer mass and quantity. Congrats.
 
Very good grades. Anyways I would challenge you to find these "mistakes" in the destroyer. The math section had a couple and the bio maybe had 1 or 2 but those mistakes have since been fixed in newer versions of the destroyer. However the chem sections in the 2008 destroyer do not have any mistakes. I went through that book several times carefully and so did a couple of my friends before our DAT's and we did not find a single mistake in the Chemistries. I have never seen this ACS thing except for one practice test which was ridiculously easy. Please enlighten me on why you feel so strongly against the destroyer, as I swear by it and was very happy with the book.
 
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Very good grades. Anyways I would challenge you to find these "mistakes" in the destroyer. The math section had a couple and the bio maybe had 1 or 2 but those mistakes have since been fixed in newer versions of the destroyer. However the chem sections in the 2008 destroyer do not have any mistakes. I went through that book several times carefully and so did a couple of my friends before our DAT's and we did not find a single mistake in the Chemistries. I have never seen this ACS thing except for one practice test which was ridiculously easy. Please enlighten me on why you feel so strongly against the destroyer, as I swear by it and was very happy with the book.

I found one mistake in the Chem section of DAT destroyer, which was a multiplication error in some acid-base problem, though I emailed Dr. Romano about it.
 
Very good grades. Anyways I would challenge you to find these "mistakes" in the destroyer. The math section had a couple and the bio maybe had 1 or 2 but those mistakes have since been fixed in newer versions of the destroyer. However the chem sections in the 2008 destroyer do not have any mistakes. I went through that book several times carefully and so did a couple of my friends before our DAT's and we did not find a single mistake in the Chemistries. I have never seen this ACS thing except for one practice test which was ridiculously easy. Please enlighten me on why you feel so strongly against the destroyer, as I swear by it and was very happy with the book.

I make the comments about the mistakes in destroyer because it is my opinion that they are there and I think it would be selfish of me to ignore them and not warn others just to play politician. If others chose to ignore my comments because they do not believe me, that is their choice. It would be quite petty of me to take time out of my schedule for the sole purpose of proving you wrong.
 
I make the comments about the mistakes in destroyer because it is my opinion that they are there and I think it would be selfish of me to ignore them and not warn others just to play politician. If others chose to ignore my comments because they do not believe me, that is their choice. It would be quite petty of me to take time out of my schedule for the sole purpose of proving you wrong.

It would not be for the sole purpose of proving me wrong, the purpose would be to help everyone by showing them whats wrong so that they do not study or learn the wrong thing.

w/e anyhoo congrats on the great scores.
 
It would not be for the sole purpose of proving me wrong, the purpose would be to help everyone by showing them whats wrong so that they do not study or learn the wrong thing.

w/e anyhoo congrats on the great scores.

i would but ive already loaned out all my DAT materials to a friend and have a long line of people wanting to use them so I prob wont be seeing any of it for a few weeks (if ever again, lol).
 
Hey,

I am doing full time college this semester with 2nd bio class. but have not taken any chemistry class yet.

Can you please list all material one by one for bio, math, PAT.
What are the good books for maths.
I want to concentrate on Math and Bio first and once m half done with them,will start PAT.
i will be starting DAT prep, once i will finish this semester as i cant concentrate on college and DAT all together.
So, will start in May and planning to take DAT for the forst time in Oct. But will start fall semester at college in August again with 1st chemistry class.

Is it ok to feel like not getting anything when you read books for the forst time, i mean i had my first bio class about year and a half ago. But m trying to learn alot from my 2nd bio class for DAT.

Thanks in adanced.
 
Congrats on your scores!

You are the first person I've heard of that suggests using ACS books, so I feel like you're more of an exception to the rule.

So far all of my friends in dental school rave about the Destroyer and how on target it is for the DAT.

So I think I'm going to stick with the Destroyer (new version has no errors) and my text books for studying.

Thanks
 
Hey congrats on your scores!

I would have to agree with Snow Dog that all the people I speak to in dental school or that have taken the DAT rave about the destroyer and said that they couldn't have done it without destroyer. So I guess using the ACS guides is good advice but an exception to the way most people study for the DAT. Thanks again for the advice but I'm going to stick with the destroyer, even if it has some mistakes I'll look the other way.

Good luck the rest of the way!
 
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I really appreciate your candid post whatev. Those scores are impressive, especially with a screen shot to verify.

I'm ordering the ACS books now and I really appreciate this suggestion. First time i've heard it, but with those scores, I think you had your bases covered!

Thanks again
 
I really appreciate your candid post whatev. Those scores are impressive, especially with a screen shot to verify.

I'm ordering the ACS books now and I really appreciate this suggestion. First time i've heard it, but with those scores, I think you had your bases covered!

Thanks again

thanks bro. others can stick with destroyer if they want (and then be psyched about 21s and 22s) but ACS wont let anyone down. just remember its a diagnostic and practice tool, not a learning tool. you still need your textbooks to relearn material after ACS shows you what you need work on.
 
Hey I was wondering... did you find any errors in the ACS organic chemistry study guide? The answer to this question may seem obvious, but if I am getting a good amount of the problems wrong for ochem during the first take should I postpone my DAT, its in 2 weeks?

Thanks buddy.
 
Hey I am currently working on these guides. these questions are harder than I expected...! ( much more difficult than DAT destroyer)The questions are very specific so very hard to find in other review materials ...
Anyway, I think I need solutions for Practice questions.(not just the answers), are there any solutions for practice questions?

THanks!
 
I dont think there are solutions for these but If I could not absolutly figure it out with a text book or anything I would just post your questions on SDN. There is always someone up to answering them. Good Luck!
 
Hey I am currently working on these guides. these questions are harder than I expected...! ( much more difficult than DAT destroyer)The questions are very specific so very hard to find in other review materials ...
Anyway, I think I need solutions for Practice questions.(not just the answers), are there any solutions for practice questions?

THanks!
The ACS books don't come with solutions?
 
The key to success is struggling to find the right answer. The correct answer is given, however they do not explain why it is correct choice. By researching and trying figure out the correct thought process you stumble upon facts and other information that can be applied to other situations, the information is also retained better. Most everything is in McMurry and probably other o-chem texts. I am half done with the book and yes its hard, but I realize I don't know as much as I thought I knew. The problems are good I am impressed with the study guides, thumbs up whateveryoulike...
 
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The key to success is struggling to find the right answer. The correct answer is given, however they do not explain why it is correct choice. By researching and trying figure out the correct thought process you stumble upon facts and other information that can be applied to other situations, the information is also retained better. Most everything is in McMurry and probably other o-chem texts. I am half done with the book and yes its hard, but I realize I don't know as much as I thought I knew. The problems are good I am impressed with the study guides, thumbs up whateveryoulike...


that is a solid quote. in fact, i like that quote enough that Im stealing it and if people ask where I heard that Im not going to give you credit for it. im going to lie and say i came up with it. 😛 seriously though, you took my thoughts and put them into one sentence. if everyone understood that one sentence the average DAT score would be much higher.
 
Hey I was wondering... did you find any errors in the ACS organic chemistry study guide? The answer to this question may seem obvious, but if I am getting a good amount of the problems wrong for ochem during the first take should I postpone my DAT, its in 2 weeks?

Thanks buddy.

yeah id say so. its only 20-25 bucks to reschedule. much better than paying the full price all over again if you dont do as well as youd like.
 
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