guys, whats the big deal about med school debt?

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batista_123

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ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.

how come some people say physicians are still in debt when they reach their fifteis, its not worth it, you could be working in the corporate world and making 10 million dollars, blah blah?
forgive me if i am ignorant and these numbers are way off, but i think doctors incomes is much higher than these, because a pediatrician sees way more than 20 patients a day, and charges much more than $50 per patient.
 
Where do you think you live? The United Arab Emirates? Ever hear of something called taxes? I'll let others chew you out on the other ridiculous assumptions you made. I sincerely hope this question is one of sarcasm and if not, I must say your understanding of finances is dismal and dangerous. Even Suze Orman would piss her pants. It is this very naivete that is going to cause the coming student loan blowout down the road. Please don't tell me this is what the typical premed knows about economics nowadays. If so, ECONOMICS 101 should be mandatory just like bio and chem for med school acceptance. But then again, med schools wouldn't want this as it would hurt the number of applications as aspiring physicians would begin to realize how exorbitant their tuitions have become.
 
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This must be flame. Seriously. Taxes? Office/business costs? Employee salaries? Mortgage? Car note? Food? The other 1000000 things people have to spend money on? Lets not forget the loan origination fees, interest accrued in school, interest accrued during residency if deferred, etc.

After all is said and done, a lot of primary care docs can barely afford to make the minimum payments on their loans, much less put 100% of their pre-tax income toward them (LOL). Think before you put fingers to keyboard.

batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.

how come some people say physicians are still in debt when they reach their fifteis, its not worth it, you could be working in the corporate world and making 10 million dollars, blah blah?
forgive me if i am ignorant and these numbers are way off, but i think doctors incomes is much higher than these, because a pediatrician sees way more than 20 patients a day, and charges much more than $50 per patient.
Click to expand...
 
$ 300,000 dollars in debt is a HUGE deal with interest ticking (just the Stafford loans are 6.8 %.. that's not including the other interest rate above the $ 8500 borrowing of the subsidized Stafford loan). Doctors back in the day had these loans at around 1 %.

Medical school debt drives more than you could believe. You'll find classmates with a sudden interest in urology (the conversation will be like this.. "You know, my dear Frugal Traveler, the other day I was thinking about penises and how I could change the world") or another one of the ROADs to riches (Radiology, Ortho, Anesthesia (golden days are coming to an end with the bland, mononuclear infiltrate of CNAs) and Derm.

Be wise and above all... travel through life's adventures frugally. :luck:
 
Haha, are you going to live in a box for those two years? Not eat a single piece of food?

As for Econ being mandatory, my school within the university here requires you to take an Econ class.
 
batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.

how come some people say physicians are still in debt when they reach their fifteis, its not worth it, you could be working in the corporate world and making 10 million dollars, blah blah?
forgive me if i am ignorant and these numbers are way off, but i think doctors incomes is much higher than these, because a pediatrician sees way more than 20 patients a day, and charges much more than $50 per patient.
Click to expand...

I think others have already chewed you out sufficiently, but I'll pile on. I bolded the only accurate portions of your post.

1) You are totally oblivious as to how much money a pediatrician earns, and as to how reimbursement works in general.

2) Even if you are earning decent money, it is tough to pay off loans - most of us will have rent or mortgages to pay monthly, car payments, possibly have to support a spouse and eventually some kids, utilities, insurance, etc. Loan repayment is one item on a long list of expenses.

3) In general, as a piece of advice, coming into the physician's forum as a pre-med and spouting off about something you are totally ignorant about is a bad idea.
 
medicinesux said:
Where do you think you live? The United Arab Emirates? Ever hear of something called taxes? I'll let others chew you out on the other ridiculous assumptions you made. I sincerely hope this question is one of sarcasm and if not, I must say your understanding of finances is dismal and dangerous. Even Suze Orman would piss her pants. It is this very naivete that is going to cause the coming student loan blowout down the road. Please don't tell me this is what the typical premed knows about economics nowadays. If so, ECONOMICS 101 should be mandatory just like bio and chem for med school acceptance. But then again, med schools wouldn't want this as it would hurt the number of applications as aspiring physicians would begin to realize how exorbitant their tuitions have become.
Click to expand...

This person does not need an Econ 101 class. He needs to take "how not to be a douche/troll" and "what is common sense?" classes. Seriously, who does not figure in at least taxes and living expenses?
 
Frugal Traveler said:
$ 300,000 dollars in debt is a HUGE deal with interest ticking (just the Stafford loans are 6.8 %.. that's not including the other interest rate above the $ 8500 borrowing of the subsidized Stafford loan). Doctors back in the day had these loans at around 1 %.

Medical school debt drives more than you could believe. You'll find classmates with a sudden interest in urology (the conversation will be like this.. "You know, my dear Frugal Traveler, the other day I was thinking about penises and how I could change the world") or another one of the ROADs to riches (Radiology, Ortho, Anesthesia (golden days are coming to an end with the bland, mononuclear infiltrate of CNAs) and Derm.

Be wise and above all... travel through life's adventures frugally. :luck:
Click to expand...

And, if they went to a public school, they didn't need much anyway. My dad paid $800 a year in the 70's. I went to the same school and paid over 10 times that.
 
LOL, if you are going to have someone pay your loans off for you you're right, they don't matter very much. Just wait until you try to manage your own personal budget and realize that you have to write a check for $3000 every month. Then it might become important to you!

And yes, it is VERY easy to enter corporate america and make $10 mil per year. :laugh: Heck, why didn't I think of that?

And yes, your numbers are way off.
 
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Eating now and then during those two years would be nice.
 
batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.

how come some people say physicians are still in debt when they reach their fifteis, its not worth it, you could be working in the corporate world and making 10 million dollars, blah blah?
forgive me if i am ignorant and these numbers are way off, but i think doctors incomes is much higher than these, because a pediatrician sees way more than 20 patients a day, and charges much more than $50 per patient.
Click to expand...

Lol...I'll be 240k in debt by the time I graduate med school and ~330k after a 3-4 year residency (<3 no more forbearance). The sooner you come to grips with the fact that you'll be living in a studio with a 1999 dodge neon til youre 35, the happier you'll be. Honestly, it sucks and I truly hope I'll be better off financially than what I'm expecting but honestly, it is what it is and that's the price you pay to be a healer.
 
batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.

how come some people say physicians are still in debt when they reach their fifteis, its not worth it, you could be working in the corporate world and making 10 million dollars, blah blah?
forgive me if i am ignorant and these numbers are way off, but i think doctors incomes is much higher than these, because a pediatrician sees way more than 20 patients a day, and charges much more than $50 per patient.
Click to expand...

LMAO :laugh:
 
All this talk of healthcare reform and nary a peep about subsidizing medical education. It's sad that we let the feds and banks make such a big chunk of change off our backs.

And they really wonder why no one wants to do primary care? Doesn't take a goddamn rocket scientist to figure it out.
 
meister said:
All this talk of healthcare reform and nary a peep about subsidizing medical education. It's sad that we let the feds and banks make such a big chunk of change off our backs.

And they really wonder why no one wants to do primary care? Doesn't take a goddamn rocket scientist to figure it out.
Click to expand...

Wow meister! I am shocked! I find myself agreeing with you for a change. :laugh:
 
batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.
Click to expand...


If you're old enough to remember this episode of the Cosby Show...

(Start at 0:39)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFY0HBkUm8o[/YOUTUBE]


Theo: $200. So, no problem.
Cliff: There IS a problem! You haven't EATEN yet!
 
If you are a troll, bravo! Mission accomplished. If you aren't.. I feel bad for you. Assuming you are successful in your endeavor and go into $300k worth of debt (when you BEGIN residency, not when you're coming out of it 3-7 years later, when the interest has piled up on top of the principal amount), it will suddenly become more REAL to you when you see the interest continually accrues every 30 days and you're swimming in debt. You will most likely have a mortgage to pay, your loans, maybe a car note, car insurance, utilities, telecommunications (cell/cable/satellite/whatever), the list goes on.. (btw, did you have to take out loans for undergrad?). Do you pay your own bills?

I've run into a few people like this. Granted, I'm a post-bac and a little older than most of my fellow pre-meds... but this attitude/ignorance is predominantly centered around those that have neither a) worked an honest day in their lives and b) had mom and dad foot the bill for their expenses. I won't lie, my parents have helped me out from time to time, and I hope to return the favor for my own kids in helping them to make the most out of their lives.

And yes, I've had both macroeconomics, microeconomics, financial and managerial accounting and finance. And I'm over 25. I can apply when I'm ready, right? I hope...
 
goodness dude get a job and become financially independent and you'll understand very quickly where the money goes.
 
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lowbudget said:
If you're old enough to remember this episode of the Cosby Show...

(Start at 0:39)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFY0HBkUm8o[/YOUTUBE]


Theo: $200. So, no problem.
Cliff: There IS a problem! You haven't EATEN yet!
Click to expand...

Cliff: Are you going to have a girlfriend?
Theo: Yep!
Cliff: (Takes rest of monopoly money)

Hilarious :laugh:

Seriously, I think you guys sent the OP cowering into submission.
 
😕:scared:😕😱Still shaking my head on this one!😱:scared:😕😱
 
lowbudget said:
If you're old enough to remember this episode of the Cosby Show...

(Start at 0:39)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFY0HBkUm8o[/YOUTUBE]


Theo: $200. So, no problem.
Cliff: There IS a problem! You haven't EATEN yet!
Click to expand...

I miss the Crosbys..
 
batista_123 said:
ok check it out
say you end up owing $300K after getting your MD.
a pediatrican sees, at least 20 patients a day. i am going to be conservative here and say $50 per patient. thats $1000 a day. 25 days a month, thats 25,000 per month, or $300,000 a year. lets say i am totally mistaken and she makes half of that a year. $150K. so after 2 years of practice, debt is gone, bye bye.
Click to expand...


Actually, I think you can get that math to work out if :

1. you Live on a park bench
2. you are capable of photosynthesis
3. you can train stray cats to do billing/paperwork
4. you see you patients in a cardboard box
5. you manage to find extensive medical supplies scrounging through dumpsters
6. you don't give out free lollipops to kids at the office
7. you erase your existence from IRS records
8. you get bit by a radioactive spider so you can swing from buildings instead of paying for transportation
9. you weave your cloth from wild hemp
etc

why don't you try it and tell us how it works out?
 
That OP was ridiculously hilarious. I hope he was trollin' (it's pretty extreme), but I've seen many a pre-med who are pretty close to that ignorant, especially the 'trads'.

Having taken introductory econ, econometrics, accounting, and finance, I am all in favor of requiring econ in the pre-med (or the pre-bachelors degree granting) curriculum. Unfortunately, I'm going into the $300+k of debt, but I thought long and hard about it, and I was able to pay off half my grad school debt on a meager income in one year b/c I really really scrimped on expenses (living at home in a cheap town, etc. - and even then I was only forking over 50% of my paycheck). I'm counting on living on $20-$25k and giving everything else to loans for the foreseeable future after school.

And for the people who don't pay off some loans during residency, why? I'm planning on doing so. It seems the government thinks that we should be, considering they got rid of the deferment.
 
oh my god im so glad i got into an instate public school at the last minute. I was one week away from moving out of state and going to a school that would have put me 250k in debt by the time i was done ( which would balloon to who know how much during residency).

i was going into it knowing that i would be in debt most of my life. now its like a huge weight has been lifted off of my shoulders, and if i end up doing primary care i wont have to worry about money so much. up until the end of july i had totally accepted the fact that i would live the next 12 years like i was in college.
 
Was thinking about med school debt the other day...

Say you graduated with a 300K debt. First off, what is to stop a person from making the bare minimum payments? Obviously, if you die with student loans, they are not passed on to the dependents. Is there a time limit to pay off student loans? Can't find any info on this. Secondly, is there a limit to the number of forebearances one can use? If not, since loans are wiped clean post-mortem, why ever bother paying them off? I don't think it counts towards credit scores as long as the loans are not in default or payments are late. Is my line of thinking off?
 
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lowbudget said:
If you're old enough to remember this episode of the Cosby Show...

(Start at 0:39)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFY0HBkUm8o[/YOUTUBE]


Theo: $200. So, no problem.
Cliff: There IS a problem! You haven't EATEN yet!
Click to expand...

Love That.:laugh:
 
sethco said:
Was thinking about med school debt the other day...

Say you graduated with a 300K debt. First off, what is to stop a person from making the bare minimum payments? Obviously, if you die with student loans, they are not passed on to the dependents. Is there a time limit to pay off student loans? Can't find any info on this. Secondly, is there a limit to the number of forebearances one can use? If not, since loans are wiped clean post-mortem, why ever bother paying them off? I don't think it counts towards credit scores as long as the loans are not in default or payments are late. Is my line of thinking off?
Click to expand...

Loans have a repayment period, which usually can't be stretched any longer than 30 years. So, unless you're planning to kick the bucket before 60, at some point those minimum payments will pay off the whole thing. Of course, by then you'll likely have paid back at least a couple times the principal in interest.
 
Sadly, I fear OP wasn't a troll. H/she lives in the same world that the almighty Obama does. In that world, pediatricians with no surgical training whatsoever wantonly remove children's tonsils, for no valid reason, in order to line their pockets with gold. Also, in that world, a general (or vascular) surgeon charges $30,000- $50,000 for amputating the feet of diabetics.

This attitude stems from the societal perception that "doctors are rich"

Even if the $50 per visit figure claimed by OP were valid, s/he left out a lot of other issues, as many have already pointed out. And don't forget that pediatricians give lots of vaccines, in many cases insurance companies don't pay enough to cover the cost of the vaccine. So that's a loss right there. Office rent, salaries for nurses, receptionists, answering service, equipment for office, heat, utilities for office, malpractice, workman's comp, health insurance for employees and taxes on the business all kick in before the pediatrician can take home a salary.

Then the taxes on the pediatirican's salary, mortgage/rent, car, gas, home utilities, food, gasoline...even if you live frugally it's hard to pay off $300K of student loan debt.

If Mr Obama doesn't understand this, I don't know why people like OP will!
 
I just found this thread, and it is hilarious! :laugh:

It is also sad, because I know plenty of medical students who are just about as clueless as the OP. I am taking a business of medicine elective, and most were shocked to know how much of their income will be taken out as taxes. Many don't understand how expensive malpractice insurance has become. For that matter, many are clueless about how economics work. Basic principles like supply and demand? Forget it. The importance of competition in lowering costs? Nope. Is it any wonder why so many medical students and doctors support the current version of health care reform? They don't understand economics enough to see that some of the proposals before us will make things worse, not better (they think things can't get any worse - ha!).
 
ChiDO said:
Over half of them have $0 debt.
Click to expand...
There is a lot of selection bias in that poll.
1. This is SDN. The pre-allo forum is populated with either gunners or marginal candidates.
2. This is SDN. The gunners feel the need to show off how smart they are by revealing their full rides (read how many of those with full rides had to comment about it rather than just answering the poll and moving on).
 
You could always have this guy as your office/practice manager, I hear he works on the cheap:

_Tyrone20Biggums.jpg
 
Hey, it might work if you still live with your mom.


After you finish residency.
 
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