Which Way to Medical School?

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ladyoflucky13

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Hello,

I've been reading these forums for a while now, and I felt it was finally time to make my own post. I am currently a Chemistry major at Oregon State University and will be graduating in June. I started out at school pretty strong (as a Biochemistry/Biophysics student in the Honors College), but after studying abroad for during my Sophomore year have been plagued with illness that has really affected my grades (initially, a temporary autoimmune disorder from being on antibiotics for a large portion of my time abroad; then, after gaining a LOT of weight while being sick for a year or so, a "pseudotumor" or vast increase in spinal fluid pressure causing intense migraines and, initially, vision issues). This year, most of my medical problems have subsided except that I am still getting pretty frequent migraines. I am trying to cope as best I can with my medical issues. In addition, after being sick for so long, I've found that I am struggling to build my basic study skills, ability to retain science information, and motivation back up. In any case, my desire to become a doctor hasn't changed. While I have considered alternatives to this profession, such as being a physician assistant or becoming a nurse practitioner, I really want to be a doctor above anything else.

One of my biggest issues is that I have had several retaken classes (some that I completely failed, others where I was below a C). I would have liked to just take a year out of school, but I have military insurance through my grandfather (legal guardian) and would have lost it if I wasn't a full time student (insurance is not something you want to lose when you are already having health issues). I know that the applications for MD schools don't replace the grade for classes that you retake. Instead, from what I've read, they count both the initial course and the retaken course as if they were two separate courses. However, I've heard that the applications for DO schools will replace the grade (what if the class was retaken more than once; ie. initial class plus two retakes?). If this is correct, my current GPA looks much better for DO schools than for MD schools. I am assuming that the average GPA/MCAT statistics shown for DO schools utilize the DO calculations while the MD statistics use the MD calculations.

MD application stats - cumGPA: 3.18; sciGPA: 2.62 (or 2.78 if my ecology/biology/study abroad courses from Ecuador are considered as science)
DO application stats - cumGPA: 3.46; sciGPA: 3.05 (or 3.17 ")

If I am right about how DO scores are calculated, then I think my DO stats actually aren't that bad (certainly more competitive than my MD stats). For this term and the next (until I graduate), I am going to try really hard to at very least not make these scores worse. It is hard to say how it will go since my migraine cycles are pretty unpredictable, but I am trying very hard to push through (also, as I've been losing weight, the frequency of the extremely severe ones has been decreasing; I am trying to continue improving my lifestyle and losing excess weight to improve my health).

After I graduate, here is my plan of action for the next year or two:

I am going to get trained and start working as a CNA after graduation. Over the summer, I am probably going to take 15 credits (9 lecture, 6 lab) of Anatomy & Physiology. During the remainder of the following year 2010-2011, I will probably take 4-8 credits per term of classes such as Microbiology, the lab to match my organic chemistry classes (didn't even realize there was a lab section when I first took organic chem), Psychology (basic and developmental), and other courses that fall within the science catagory (and also, conveniently, in the pre-reqs for PA and MSN programs) such as Epidemiology, Immunology, Bacteriology, etc.

I am currently leaning towards applying Summer/Fall 2011 (or 2012) since that will give me extra time to study for the MCAT, get my health completely in order, and take a few extra classes to raise my GPA. Speaking of which, if I do this as a non-degree student, these credits will still count towards my undergrad GPA, right? If I need to, I guess I could get readmitted to the University as a 2nd degree seeking student, but I don't plan on staying that long. Non-degree students at OSU can currently enroll in up to 8 credits each term (except summer when credits are unlimited).

Also, how useful will my employment as a CNA be (experiencing direct patient care). I know PA schools love to see this patient care experience and generally even make it a requirement. However, I'm uncertain how important this would be to medical schools. Please let me know your opinions on this.

Also, when are the application time frames for MD vs. DO? I am under the impression that MD is generally from June 1 - October 15. DO schools, it seems, has a much later time frame starting from May - January (does this mean you can apply as late as January to attend school the next fall, or is this system for applying a year and a half ahead?). If applying as late as January means you can attend the next fall session at DO schools, then I may be able to apply for these schools right at the beginning of 2011 and potentially attend fall of 2011 (or apply and attend in 2012, but the general idea is that I'd have more time to prepare than for MD schools, right?). Please let me know if my time frame is correct and what your recommendations would be for my situation.

Overall, I am curious about my chances of getting into a medical school. I am pretty much willing to do whatever it takes. I've even considered the extra long route of getting an accelerated BSN, attending PA school (Master's Degree), and then heading to medical school later on. I would greatly appreciate comments and suggestions. I am currently looking at the current schools as potential options for MD and DO. Let me know what you think. I appreciate any input. Thanks. 🙂

MD Schools: OHSU (IS), PR-San Juan Bautista (OOS), Morehouse (OOS), North Dokota (OOS)
DO Schools: WesternU NW Track (new school opening near me in 2011; don't know how acceptance will be), CCOM (OOS), LECOM (OOS), DMU-COM (OOS)

I am also curious about whether OOS residents are generally held to a higher standard than the average GPA/MCAT scores. In other words, do they allow in-staters to be accepted with 3.3 GPAs while they want OOS students to have GPAs of 3.7 (to average out to 3.5, etc.). I know most schools show preference to IS students with regards to how many are accepted. Are there any schools that accept higher numbers of OOS students while adhering to a relatively lower GPA/MCAT scores than average for acceptance? I don't yet know how my MCAT will go (which is why I'd like plenty of time to prepare), but I generally have always done pretty well on standardized tests.

As for paying for school, I'm not totally sure yet. Fortunately, I had scholarships for all of my undergraduate studies (thank You so much Ford Family for not dropping me when my grades went bad from illness!!!). So, I don't have any debt accumulated so far. I have enough saved up to take care of at least my summer classes and a term or two of 4-8 credits after that. For medical school, though, I'm not sure. I have already been in undergrad for 5 years including summers, so I think my federal aid might be used up (they only offer so many terms worth, right?). I may be able to get two years of $15,000/year for graduate school from the Ford Family Foundation, but it will be really competitive since I will be going against other Ford Scholars.

I have also considered the HPSP military scholarship. I actually love the idea of being in the military (my grandpa, legal guardian, was in until retiring). However, since I've had so many health issues, I'm not sure they would accept me. Besides the recent stuff (and still being on Diamox for the increased spinal fluid pressure), I was once diagnosed as being "insulin resistant" when I was 15-16. I actually think it was a misdiagnosis, though, since I have never had high blood sugar whenever I've tested it since then. I think that was right around the time that some "statistics" showed that about 75% of Americans were potentially some degree of "insulin resistant" and how diagnosing it early could prevent future health issues, so I think that is why I was tested. My results came back high based on eating a very high sugar meal vs. the amount of sugar in my blood at a certain time after eating and I was prescribed a low dose of Metformin. I don't remember how long I took it, but I don't think it was very long since I tested my blood sugar often after that and never really noticed any problems. If anyone here has any experience with health issues and the military, please let me know if you think that route may be possible. I know I initially was disqualified from the ROTC program because of this "insulin resistance" and was told I wouldn't be able to get a waiver (but a few months later got a welcome letter and orientation information for OSU ROTC students, though this may have been some kind of mistake; I had FORD by this time, though, so I called and told them I wouldn't be attending). Since I won't be applying for medical schools for a while, I have time to get my weight down further and get my health in order (from what I've heard, you don't have to apply for HPSP as soon as you enter medical school, you can wait until the 2nd year). I've been told that the military may consider recent good health (for a year or so) as overruling some prior health problems.


List Of Questions from above:
1: How do multiple retakes of a single class get calculated by the DO application? Viewed by a MD/DO school?
2: As my stats stand now, what would be my chances of getting into MD or DO schools?
3: Will taking non-degree post-bacc credits count towards my undergrad Cum/sci GPA for MD/DO schools? How do schools view this?
4: Does having work experience as a CNA help my application for MD/DO schools?
5: Would attending Fall 2012 would require a Summer/Fall 2011 application for MD schools, but a January 2012 application for DO schools?
6: How viable an option would attending PA then MD/DO, accelerated BSN then MD/DO, or accelerated BSN then PA then MD/DO be?
7: Do the schools mentioned above seem like they would be a good fit for my stats? Any suggestions? Any schools friendly to OOS students?
8: How do OOS applicants stats compare to those of IS applicants? Are the average GPA/MCAT requirements higher?
9: Chances of getting a military (probably army) HPSP scholarship? Chances considering my health issues/history?

Extra: What is the best way to approach professors about recommendations? There are a few professors who know me pretty well. Unfortunately, three of the best candidates (who knew me pretty well and liked me) saw me have a total emotional breakdown in the lab when my health was still very poor and my grades were crashing down around me. Is it still a good idea to ask for references or will they always see me as someone who is weak and broke down when the going got tough (I'm pretty sure they saw my illness and understood, but I still feel like it is going to leave a negative impression anyhow)? I am going to have another lab class with them spring term, so now is the time for me to figure out what to do in that regard.


I know this has been an extraordinarily long post, and I really appreciate everyone who takes the time to read it and respond. I have tried to glean as much info as I can from the forums already, but I'd really like information based on my specific case. Thank you. 🙂
 
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this is definitely the longest post that i have ever seen. shorten it up a bit and someone might actually read it...😛
 
WOW. Wait for Cat, shes the ONLY person nice enough to read that.


On an aside, why dont you be a journalist or something instead? =P
 
Hello,

List Of Questions from above:
1: How do multiple retakes of a single class get calculated by the DO application? Viewed by a MD/DO school?
2: As my stats stand now, what would be my chances of getting into MD or DO schools?
3: Will taking non-degree post-bacc credits count towards my undergrad Cum/sci GPA for MD/DO schools? How do schools view this?
4: Does having work experience as a CNA help my appication for MD/DO schools?
5: When do you think I should apply? Which timeframe works best? Are my timeframes for applications to MD/DO schools correct?
6: How viable an option would attending PA then MD/DO, accelerated BSN then MD/DO, or accelerated BSN then PA then MD/DO be?
7: Do the schools mentioned above seem like they would be a good fit for my stats? Any suggestions? Any schools friendly to OOS students?
8: How do OOS applicants stats compare to those of IS applicants? Are the average GPA/MCAT requirements higher?
9: Chances of getting a military (probably army) HPSP scholarship? Chances considering my health issues/history?

1. not completely sure, but i think it varies on a school-to-school basis. you should look into each program individually.
2. reasonable for DO, poor for MD. with your upcoming CNA experience and a decent MCAT score, chances will improve dramatically.
3. let's put it this way - you already have the low GPA. doing something about it (even if it means extra schooling) is always better than doing nothing.
4. most definitely. any time you spend in a hospital/clinic/etc. is a big plus for just about any admissions committee as far as i know.
5. definitely wait til 2011 to apply MD - i didn't apply DO so i won't comment on that.
6. look inside yourself and find out. i for one, would probably lose motivation somewhere in the middle. on the other hand, i have classmates (M1s) right now who are already PharmDs and others who are in their thirties.
7. eight schools? you should probably double that. i applied to eight (most of them in-state) with a 3.65 GPA and 35 MCAT and got two interviews and one acceptance.
8. requirements...not really. averages...yes. when i went through the whole researching process, i got the impression that state-schools (for OOS applicants) were about +0.3 for GPA and +3 for MCAT while private schools were about +0.2 for GPA and +1.5.
9. the military seems pretty eager to give those out, and it's not a very popular program. out of my class (about 180 students), i believe there are 2 doing this.

hope that helps and good luck.

edit: haha, that really did take me nearly twenty minutes to read and respond.
 
Thank you so much for your input! I know my post is rather long winded, and I appreciate your effort! 🙂
 
On an aside, why dont you be a journalist or something instead? =P

I have always been a science nerd. Becoming something less nerdy simply isn't an option. 🙂
 
1. not completely sure, but i think it varies on a school-to-school basis. you should look into each program individually.
2. reasonable for DO, poor for MD. with your upcoming CNA experience and a decent MCAT score, chances will improve dramatically.
3. let's put it this way - you already have the low GPA. doing something about it (even if it means extra schooling) is always better than doing nothing.
4. most definitely. any time you spend in a hospital/clinic/etc. is a big plus for just about any admissions committee as far as i know.
5. definitely wait til 2011 to apply MD - i didn't apply DO so i won't comment on that.
6. look inside yourself and find out. i for one, would probably lose motivation somewhere in the middle. on the other hand, i have classmates (M1s) right now who are already PharmDs and others who are in their thirties.
7. eight schools? you should probably double that. i applied to eight (most of them in-state) with a 3.65 GPA and 35 MCAT and got two interviews and one acceptance.
8. requirements...not really. averages...yes. when i went through the whole researching process, i got the impression that state-schools (for OOS applicants) were about +0.3 for GPA and +3 for MCAT while private schools were about +0.2 for GPA and +1.5.
9. the military seems pretty eager to give those out, and it's not a very popular program. out of my class (about 180 students), i believe there are 2 doing this.

hope that helps and good luck.

edit: haha, that really did take me nearly twenty minutes to read and respond.

WOW!!!! Her post was huuuuuge!
It seems like the whole Med process is a lot harder in the states than it is here in NZ, although probably more competitive here as we only have 2 medical schools in the entire country, thus very limited places.

I don't intend to be rude, but from reading your post i get the impression that being a Dr isn't really what's in your heart - as much as you may believe it is.
You seem to be making a lot of excuses. I think you really would benefit from waiting a year - get your body and mind back in shape🙂
That said... i think you should email that same message (perhaps reduce it though, hehe) to the schools you would prefer to go to and find out what their views on your situation would be so you have a realistic perception of what is required of you and what you are capable of at this time.

🙂
 
I don't intend to be rude, but from reading your post i get the impression that being a Dr isn't really what's in your heart - as much as you may believe it is.
You seem to be making a lot of excuses. I think you really would benefit from waiting a year - get your body and mind back in shape🙂

Thank you for your response. 🙂

I just re-read my post and realized that perhaps I have come off as a bit of a "Negative Nancy" in some spots 🙁. This wasn't my intention, though, I just wanted to be thorough. I didn't include so many details about my history as a method of excusing every aspect of my current situation. I mentioned at one point that, besides having issues with illness in general, I am also having problems with study skills, memorization, and motivation. While I wanted people to understand that I wasn't simply boozing my days away or anything, I accept that I may not have gone through this illness as well as I could have.

If you had asked me before I got sick how I would handle illness, I probably would have said that I would have fought it tooth and nail 24/7. In reality, perhaps I haven't fought hard enough, but being sick for two years sucks the energy out of a person. I guess I eventually hit a point where I either had to loosen my standards to give myself some lenience for my illness or start hating myself for not meeting the fairly high standards I had before I got sick (and sink into depression; I mentioned that I had a bit of a emotional breakdown in my lab class). Perhaps I haven't bounced back from my illness as well as I could in part because of this original "lowering of my standards", but it was pretty much a mental survival mechanism at that point. Maybe even though I still suffer frequent migraines and am having trouble reinstating my pre-illness levels of study, it shouldn't be affecting my grades as much as it does. I don't know.

What I do know is that I have goals. My future is largely under my control (regardless of having the leftovers of illness). My driving intent right now is to determine the best course of action that will allow me to be the most productive while allowing the flexibility I may need for the unknown aspects of my future health. Any uncertainty in my posting relates strictly to either knowledge I don't have (which is why I am asking questions) or an unwillingness to assume my health will suddenly become perfect by next term or by the summer. While I'd love to make this assumption, it wouldn't be realistic. So, I am trying to make a plan that is as definite as it can be in my situation.

I thank you for and appreciate your suggestion to wait a year. This is pretty much what I think I should do (either a year or maybe even two, depending on how my health goes). I certainly need more time to see exactly where my health is headed. My biggest fear with this is that my science will atrophy further if I don't attend school or even if I only attend for 4-8 credits per term. I am definitely going to have to be especially careful to study for the MCAT and mentally prepare myself for this process. I am not wanting to take classes just to raise my GPA or to barely slide into medical school, I really love science and want to be able to learn it properly, for the long term.
 
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See my bolded responses.
Hello,

MD application stats - cumGPA: 3.18; sciGPA: 2.62 (or 2.78 if my ecology/biology/study abroad courses from Ecuador are considered as science)
DO application stats - cumGPA: 3.46; sciGPA: 3.05 (or 3.17 ")

Also, when are the application time frames for MD vs. DO? I am under the impression that MD is generally from June 1 - October 15. DO schools, it seems, has a much later time frame starting from May - January (does this mean you can apply as late as January to attend school the next fall, or is this system for applying a year and a half ahead?). If applying as late as January means you can attend the next fall session at DO schools, then I may be able to apply for these schools right at the beginning of 2011 and potentially attend fall of 2011 (or apply and attend in 2012, but the general idea is that I'd have more time to prepare than for MD schools, right?). Please let me know if my time frame is correct and what your recommendations would be for my situation. Your time frames are correct, however later applications are at a significant disadvantage. Plan to apply by August for MD and by October for DO. Ask in the Premed Osteo Forum as to whether a January application has any chance at all.

Overall, I am curious about my chances of getting into a medical school. I am pretty much willing to do whatever it takes. I've even considered the extra long route of getting an accelerated BSN, attending PA school (Master's Degree), and then heading to medical school later on. I would greatly appreciate comments and suggestions. I am currently looking at the current schools as potential options for MD and DO. Let me know what you think. I appreciate any input. Thanks. 🙂Until you have an MCAT score, final GPA, and all your ECs lined up, it's hard to say.

MD Schools: OHSU (IS)Seems unlikely from my understanding of how competitive they are, PR-San Juan Bautista (OOS)Requires 100% Spanish fluency, Morehouse (OOS)Traditionally African-American, North Dokota (OOS)Only likely to take the most exceptional OOSers from Montana and Minnesota (as I recall).
DO Schools: WesternU NW Track (new school opening near me in 2011; don't know how acceptance will be), CCOM (OOS), LECOM (OOS), DMU-COM (OOS)Much more likely to be successful.

I am also curious about whether OOS residents are generally held to a higher standard than the average GPA/MCAT scores. In other words, do they allow in-staters to be accepted with 3.3 GPAs while they want OOS students to have GPAs of 3.7 (to average out to 3.5, etc.). This tends to be true for Public schools. Most Private schools consider IS and OOS the same. I know most schools show preference to IS students with regards to how many are accepted. Are there any schools that accept higher numbers of OOS students while adhering to a relatively lower GPA/MCAT scores than average for acceptance? A copy of the MSAR will answer this question for you. The data is there. I don't yet know how my MCAT will go (which is why I'd like plenty of time to prepare), but I generally have always done pretty well on standardized tests.

List Of Questions from above:
1: How do multiple retakes of a single class get calculated by the DO application? Viewed by a MD/DO school? Even with three retakes, only the last grade is calculated into the application GPA. The old grades are listed though.
2: As my stats stand now, what would be my chances of getting into MD or DO schools? MD, very unlikely; DO, likely.
3: Will taking non-degree post-bacc credits count towards my undergrad Cum/sci GPA for MD/DO schools? How do schools view this? It is considered exactly the same as credits taken in undergrad.
4: Does having work experience as a CNA help my application for MD/DO schools? Greatly. This is an excellent source of clinical experience. You still need to do some volunteer work if you get paid.
5: Would attending Fall 2012 would require a Summer/Fall 2011 application for MD schools, Yes. but a January 2012 application for DO schools? Not completely sure, as i suggested, check in PreOsteo.
6: How viable an option would attending PA then MD/DO, accelerated BSN then MD/DO, or accelerated BSN then PA then MD/DO be? Be a PA or RN if that's what you want. Or be a doc. Best to decide up front what your goal is that will make you happy for the rest of your life. A change can be made, but time and cost usually prevent this from happening. See the NonTrad Forum for career-changers' perspectives. If stress is a trigger for your migraines, consider the impact on any career you settle on if you can't get them under control.
7: Do the schools mentioned above seem like they would be a good fit for my stats? Any suggestions? Stick with the DO option. Any schools friendly to OOS students?
8: How do OOS applicants stats compare to those of IS applicants? Are the average GPA/MCAT requirements higher? Generally, only at public med schools.
9: Chances of getting a military (probably army) HPSP scholarship? Chances considering my health issues/history? Call a recruiter and ask.

Extra: What is the best way to approach professors about recommendations?Ask in the PreMed Allo forum.
 
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I was worried you wouldn't want to read through the whole thing again to get the answers (though I did edit it down a bit). LOL.


Ah, no, I was fine reading it...I mean, it was my own decision to write everything so long. I've always been a bit bad at condensing my thoughts into concise writing. Anyhow, I'm really grateful for the answers. I guess I will take your advice and post my DO type questions in the DO forum...I actually originally thought that the WAMC forum here was for both DO and MD, but I guess that's what I get from finding it by searching instead of seeing the forum organization from the start page.
 
You're not the only one who's thought PreAllo WAMC if for all med schools. We've learned to answer a lot of DO related questions by doing research, reading DO-applicant posts, and having some more knowledgeable folks drop by to help out, but we aren't yet all-knowing and all-wise.
 
5: Would attending Fall 2012 would require a Summer/Fall 2011 application for MD schools, but a January 2012 application for DO schools?

I can answer this one. Processing of the primary DO application by AACOM begins the May prior to matriculation. So if you wanted to attend in Fall 2012, you can start filling out the application and getting it verified in May 2011. Although DO schools seem to be a little more lenient in terms of how early you have to apply (many primary and secondary application deadlines aren't until February-March), they still operate on a rolling basis. So the sooner you apply, the better. Some schools over-accept by a lot, and those that get a seat in the class are individuals that were able to get accepted early and put down their deposit. It's a first-come, first-serve kind of deal.

I would say if you're getting your MD applications done during summer/fall, then get your DO applications done at the same time. They require you to collect the same materials - LOR, transcripts, personal statement, etc. - and their primaries/secondaries are pretty similar for the most part.

Also keep in mind that processing of primary applications takes time. My AMCAS took 7 weeks to get verified this year while my AACOMAS took 4 weeks. Your application isn't released to schools until this verification process is complete. So even though you finish and submit your application online by July 1, schools may not receive and start reviewing your file until August.

Hope that helped.
 
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