Penn - debt but only option

Have you guys considered some of the loan forgiveness programs available i.e. the military? This may be an attractive option for you to think about. Good luck!

The Military seems like a great option for your situation. I am also an older student and am filling out the paperwork for the Army. It pays for tuition, books and supplies and once your finished with dental school, you will work in a preestablished practice. Nice option to consider.

I am in a very similar boat, albeit I'm 27 and not 31. I have been accepted to Penn and Buffalo OOS (im not really into cold weather). I have not even heard a peep from my instate (Maryland). I've been thinking about the NAVY to possibly pay for at least SOME of my schooling/books/housing. You get a nice stipend and school is paid for.

ALSO, Penn has a VERY strong alumni base. Penn helps their students get great positions post-grad...so you won't be left in the cold completely.


And on another side note....at least its not as expensive as NYU or USC

My wife is a lawyer and has had her difficulties securing a corporate law position despite graduating order of the coif from one of the best law schools in the nation. I can tell you that the budget will be tight while things like family considerations, the prospect of buying a first home... all of these things will be backloaded to fulfill both of your financial obligations. Still though, our combined earning potential in a few years will be quite good. That said, paying back loans isn't really the question. The question is all that we delay for a few years while we concentrate on unloading debt as quickly as possible.

I personally wouldn't risk giving up a seat at Penn to in hoping to earn a seat at UCSF or UCLA. That is insanity, because he may wind up nowhere this next time year. Go to Penn and he can explore loan forgiveness options after he graduates. There will be sacrifice and delay for certain things you may want to do for several years, but many couples manage what you both are trying to do. The plus side is that you both will be able to provide very well for your children and family in the future, which is the point behind putting yourself through the drain of a 4 year program.

I think it would be foolish to not accept it. It all depends on how much you make now though. Im going to assume that you both make around 60k. If you go to penn, take on the huge debt, then pay it off over 30 years, you are still going to be making more than you did previously. And the fact that you're going to vet school, I don't really see as an issue for the same reason:

Eventually you are going to come out ahead going to professional school such as vet or dentistry that yields a high salary on average.

Yeah it sucks to pay that much, but if you wait a year think of it as a lost year of a dentist's salary.

snaggletoof said:

I am in a very similar boat, albeit I'm 27 and not 31. I have been accepted to Penn and Buffalo OOS (im not really into cold weather). I have not even heard a peep from my instate (Maryland). I've been thinking about the NAVY to possibly pay for at least SOME of my schooling/books/housing. You get a nice stipend and school is paid for.

ALSO, Penn has a VERY strong alumni base. Penn helps their students get great positions post-grad...so you won't be left in the cold completely.


And on another side note....at least its not as expensive as NYU or USC

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snaggletoof, I thought Penn dental is as expensive as NYU because living cost in Philly is pretty expensive...

So are you choosing Penn over Buffalo?

Since I go to the most expensive school on earth (dental school is the most expensive type of school, USC is arguably the most expensive of them) I've thought about debt too so I'll share my thinking.

First off don't wait a year you may never get in to anywhere again including the place that accepted you this year. Waiting a year means losing a year salary which is like losing a year of experience and $120,000 on the low end. The difference in prices of schools is rarely much more than that.

Second know your options.
The military is good if you're that type of person, but if your husband is graduating at 36 does he really want to be in the military for four years?
IBR is Income based repayment, you pay 15% of your Adjusted Gross Income for 25 years and the rest of your government loans are forgiven, but you're taxed on it. No matter what type of financial hardship you may encounter you payment is based on your salary so it should never overwhelm you, however the tax bill in year 25 can be killer, so be prepared.
PSLF is Public service loan forgiveness, if you work for 10 years for a nonprofit or the government the rest of your federal loans are forgiven tax free, if your husband doesn't want to open his own practice this might not be a bad route, find a non profit hospital or becoming a dental professor would satisfy this. You can (and basically have to) combine this with IBR so you pay 15% for 10 years and the rest is forgiven.
I won't explain the 10 year and 25 year standard payment plan because most people understand them, but you can do graduated payments with them so keep that in mind.

So that is a starting point good luck and do your own research from here. Remember the govt can change any of these programs at any time so you just have to roll the dice when it comes to that.

gracietiger said:

To make it worse, I am planning to attend veterinary school at the same time, so let's just tack another 250k and a lower salary onto that Penn price tag.

(unless of course you have a partner who also makes a good income - which he'd better not bank on if I'm a veterinarian).

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I don't understand why you keep saying that a veterinarian will have a low salary/income?

RedDevilDDS said:

snaggletoof, I thought Penn dental is as expensive as NYU because living cost in Philly is pretty expensive...

So are you choosing Penn over Buffalo?

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Penn's tuition is a little cheaper than NYU....I believe according to predents, although I know it is not 100% accurate.

Philly is pretty cheap to live....imo. I would say that a place in manhattan would be 2-3 times the price as somewhere in center city phila.

That being said, I still have not made a decision on where I want to go. I would still like to hear from Temple...and hopefully my instate (UMB)....

I've spent the past 5 years in philadelphia, and i honestly love it. All my dental friends say I would be crazy to pass up Penn, but for some reason I am a bit weary....


I think Buffalo, for now, will be out of the question for me. It is far from my family/friends and I HATE the cold. Everyone at the school was VERY nice and the sutdents were chill, but I don't think I would be happy in the area for 4 years, although I'm sure I would get a great education.


Sorry to hijack the OP! Just want to answer the question.

snaggletoof said:

I think Buffalo, for now, will be out of the question for me. It is far from my family/friends and I HATE the cold. Everyone at the school was VERY nice and the sutdents were chill, but I don't think I would be happy in the area for 4 years, although I'm sure I would get a great education.

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I'm no meterologist, but doesn't Philly get cold and snowy too?

7 Iron said:

I'm no meterologist, but doesn't Philly get cold and snowy too?

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I mean, yes, philly does get snow, however it is incomparable to the lake effect snow you get off of lake erie....


The annual average snow fall for Philadelphia is 19.3 inches vs Buffalo 95.4 inches (numbers according to wikipedia)

You're not going to like what I have to say. But I'm a realist.

There aren't many easy-to-get-into out-of-state schools. Your husband already applied to a few of them and havn't heard from them. I don't think he'll fair differently next cycle. Somehow, he was able to get into Penn, which isn't easy to do. And to be honest, I don't know how he was able to get into Penn if he weren't able to get into others. My hunch is that Penn was a fluke. But hey, it still counts. I think you two should consider yourselves fortunate and take Penn's offer, as there may not be more chances in the future.

As far as finance goes, Penn Dental's expensive, but dentist salaries are high. However, vet school is expensive, but vet salaries are low. Your husband's more likely to pay off his dental debts than you are to pay off your vet debts. Your financial problems is less Penn Dental and more vet school costs. You'd be better off holding off on buying a vet clinic until the distant future.

As far as your husband's business sense goes, there are dental specialties where being personable doesn't matter as much. I've met a great many introverted endodontists, and they all do well. If your husband decides to specialize, he can break 300k/yr.

dentstd said:

Somehow, he was able to get into Penn, which isn't easy to do. And to be honest, I don't know how he was able to get into Penn if he weren't able to get into others. My hunch is that Penn was a fluke. But hey, it still counts. I think you two should consider yourselves fortunate and take Penn's offer, as there may not be more chances in the future.

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Penn is a private school, so it is easier to get into than many schools applying as an OOS. Also, it was very nice of you to belittle someone's acceptance by calling it a fluke - good job!

You need to take into consideration your financial situation. It will take a while before your husband will make the numbers that you see dropped on this forum. Your husband can possibly call the in-state school and ask what factors led to the admissions committee not accepting him. Maybe he can try again next year taking those factors into consideration?

txlonghorn said:

Penn is a private school, so it is easier to get into than many schools applying as an OOS. Also, it was very nice of you to belittle someone's acceptance by calling it a fluke - good job!

You need to take into consideration your financial situation. It will take a while before your husband will make the numbers that you see dropped on this forum. Your husband can possibly call the in-state school and ask what factors led to the admissions committee not accepting him. Maybe he can try again next year taking those factors into consideration?

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Whatever, people get in on a fluke all the time. I've gotten into some random med and dental schools on a fluke. When the admissions committee has to choose 1 from a pool of 30 nearly identical candidates, they don't necessarily sleep on it. They sometimes just say "tha hell with it" and take one randomly.

Hell, your parents probably had you on a fluke.

dentstd said:

Hell, your parents probably had you on a fluke.

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I believe that was my youngest brother. lol

gracietiger said:

I am not a pre-dental student, but my husband is so I'm hoping you wouldn't mind offering us some advice. My husband regularly visits these forums (hi), but he's not really one to write something about himself publicly. Plus, if he goes to dental school, I guess I am too in some ways, so I hope you don't mind that I am posting for advice.
He was rejected from his state school, and hasn't heard anything from Pacific and Maryland - and it's seeming likely that he won't. Assuming that Penn is his only option, we find the cost, needless to say, to be completely overwhelming. Not just because the cost itself is outrageous, but also because my husband would be 31 years old when he begins dental school, and won't be practicing until he is basically 36. Clearly, that's a good ten years less earning potential than that of many of his potential dental school peers.

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Sounds like your hubby will need an appointment with a chiropractor for a spinal column adjustment unless you intend on being his medium in dealing with future patients. At his age, it would not be unreasonable to expect for him (you) to rely on the old adage about a bird in hand being preferable to a couple of dozens in the bush, unless in a year, the ds in question will be looking at the application through a different prism. The envy game.. shouldn't that start at least after he has finished ds?

Hi gracietiger, I usually don't write on this forum ( but often visit), but given your post I feel compelled to give you my advice. First let me say congratulations, your husband has landed a seat in an exceptional dental school. Do not allow your husband to give up that spot, it would be a huge mistake. Second let me say the debt is a burden, but it can managed even if you don't choose to do a military scholarship. However given your situation and your "husbands lack of business sense" I would opt for a military scholarship. I am a non-traditional student like your husband, just slightly younger. I was looking into these scholarship programs myself, and had an over the phone interview today as a preliminary step in obtaining the army scholarship. So I can tell you what I know about them. A) all your school debt is payed for by your chosen military branch B) you get around a $1,700 stipened every month (that is after taxes) for living expenses. Your husband leaves dental school debt free. Then you get to a choice of your top 3 places to live (in the United States), where you are needed in the army. Most people get there 1st or 2nd choice, which is not bad. You do your 4 years of "military service" which is really just practicing dentistry. This is good for several reasons, you don't have malpratice insurance fees ( knowbody in the military is going to sue somebody in the military). Second your husband has the opportunity to get good at dentistry and prepares him for private practice. You get full medical and dental insurance. And you get a minimum of 70,000 a year salary, but increases every year you practice in that four year time. And your husband is a high ranking officer in the army after those four years of practice. There are about 80 scholarships given every year, but if you apply early (like now), there is a good chance your husband could land one of them. And this is not a bad gig given your situation because vetinarians are needed every where and can likely find work wherever he may be. I wish you guys the best of luck. Hope I was of some help.

hi Gracietiger, I read your post a few weeks ago, and I have been think about your situation. I rarely visit this site, I have been in the past, I was once a pre-dent student.

I have been practicing dentistry for four years, and your situation reminded me of my own life and the choices I made. Of course our situation is not exactly the same, but I thought you might benefit from hearing my experiences.

Let me share my story. My husband and I both graduated from professional school, he is a pharmacist and I am a dentist. We were both a bit older when we enter professional school. I was 27 and he was 31. When we finally got out of school and residency, I was 32 and he was 36. We had combine student loan of 360k. A lot less than what you guys will owe, but it is still a very big deal in REAL life. It makes every aspect of your life complicated. For example, we had to leave our home state to move to a much cheaper state, thank God we both find jobs at the same town. Due to delaying having kids, we might never be able to have our own biological children, we have been seeing a specialist for a year, still no luck. It is very heart breaking to me to think I might never have children because of my choice of profession and the responsibilities that comes with it, the delay of starting a family due to wanting to focus in school, focus on paying of more debt before starting a family.......
Over half million in debt is a serious responsibility. What we want in our twenties might not be the same thing when we get older. What you have to consider is your family as a whole, what is best for the whole family ( you and your hubby, may be you have kids already, or your future kids). This consideration might mean you have to sacrifice your dreams and desires, if your earning potential is not as good as your husband (I am not sure about this, but from what you said, you won't make much in the beginning of your career.) I know it is hard to hear this, but I wish I thought about this when I enter dental school, I love what I do, and I am good at it, but do I love it more than having my own children? Do I love it more than live close to family and friends? I am not sure. If I have a chance to do it again, I would not go to dental school, instead I would do something much less demanding, in turns of financial obligation, and time investment. I would work while my hubby was in school, and pay as much as we can afford , in order to limit our debt. I would have children way before my 32th birthday. I know if I did that, we would have much less debt, which in turn would allows us to stay in our home state, stay close to our family, which is very important to me. We might also already have children by this point. I am not saying, we women should be the one making the sacrifice, I know couples, which the husband was the supporting role while the wife went to dental school. Some people can sleep very well even while they have huge debt, I am not that kind, I guess you are not either since you ask the question.

If you both decide to go for your chosen profession, it's not impossible to pay off student loan, I don't want to sound completely negative here, but you are going to have a very very hard life ahead of you, as long as you accept that life, then go for it.