ODs in Kentucky may get surgical rights!

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geronamo26

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A bill is in the process of being passed in Kentucky right now to allow MINOR surgical rights for Optometrists....do any of you know are involved in this? It seems like Optometrists will eventually be able to do minor surgeries whether some of you agree or not. There are already a couple OD schools that teach surgical techniques and more will prob. follow. I honestly think this is where Optometry is heading.
 
It's laser surgeries of...anterior seg? And maybe posterior seg? YAG, SLT and some other things. I guess it includes retina too, if you can do SLT. I don't believe it includes refractive surgeries like Lasik. I'm not sure, a doctor from AOA PAC came in today and talked to us about it. It's going to house on Friday. Cross your fingers!

And the schools that teach surgical techniques only teach it if it's legal in that state. So if CA never allows ODs to do any surgical procedures, SCCO/Berkeley/Western will never teach it. So unfortunately, only more schools will follow if their states decide the let them.

He (the AOA PAC guy) did say something about being legislated by the board instead of by the state. That way, they don't have to go to the state everytime a new technology comes out, they can go to the board, which is much less time consuming. Not sure if that will go through though, he talked really fast and I was still half asleep from a very dimly lit motility lecture.

Take everything I've just said with a grain of salt, I'm so not legislative and I was kind of confused about what he was saying. I'm sure an article will be published in the next couple days about it, it's very exciting news.
 
Mewcakes said:
It's laser surgeries of...anterior seg? And maybe posterior seg? YAG, SLT and some other things. I guess it includes retina too, if you can do SLT. I don't believe it includes refractive surgeries like Lasik. I'm not sure, a doctor from AOA PAC came in today and talked to us about it. It's going to house on Friday. Cross your fingers!

And the schools that teach surgical techniques only teach it if it's legal in that state. So if CA never allows ODs to do any surgical procedures, SCCO/Berkeley/Western will never teach it. So unfortunately, only more schools will follow if their states decide the let them.

He (the AOA PAC guy) did say something about being legislated by the board instead of by the state. That way, they don't have to go to the state everytime a new technology comes out, they can go to the board, which is much less time consuming. Not sure if that will go through though, he talked really fast and I was still half asleep from a very dimly lit motility lecture.

Take everything I've just said with a grain of salt, I'm so not legislative and I was kind of confused about what he was saying. I'm sure an article will be published in the next couple days about it, it's very exciting news.
Click to expand...

:xf: Keep us informed! :xf:
 
Why Kentucky? Anyone know, or care to guess? I haven't the slightest clue.
 
It seems like the less popular states have a broader scope of practice. It's so strange to me.
 
I've heard the same. So what is the deal, do Ophthalmologists just not live in rural areas but Optometrists do? Still strange..
 
Just read the bill. I will give a run down on what it will let you guys do. This is a serious post.

1. ALT, SLT, YAG capsulotomy, PRK, Laser lens extraction, + additional laser procedures
2. “Scalpel procedures” with some exceptions
3. Prescribe all medications except for narcotics/marijuana… Ability to deliver all medicines by any route (injection in or around the eye, IV, PO)
4. Provide any type of anesthesia except for general anesthesia

Not sure why you guys are not able to perform your own general anesthesia yet.

The other beauty of the bill is that organized optometry will also be able to set all future scope of practice limits. Therefore, if next year you feel general anesthesia is in your realm, it will be all yours. Study hard to night – there might be a final on the laser lens extraction tomorrow or was that lecture last year in your training.
 
ABaverage said:
It seems like the less popular states have a broader scope of practice. It's so strange to me.
Click to expand...

SERIOUSLY!! WHAT is up with that?! California is SO f-ing PACKED with OD's, yet we have like...zero scope!! Only NY rivals us on lameness of scope! I guess it would be worse if we (CA) DID have good scope though...I could pretty much kiss the thought of moving back home goodbye.
 
I hope these ODs can access a good amount of medical panels in KY.
 
blackhole2 said:
I hope these ODs can access a good amount of medical panels in KY.
Click to expand...

I also thought I remembered something about that guy saying something about nondiscriminatory billing by insurances. Something like....as long as it is approved as part of your scope, you can bill insurance for a procedure. But boy, I cannot attest with certainty that that's what I heard. Anyone else know anything?
 
200UL said:
Just read the bill. I will give a run down on what it will let you guys do. This is a serious post.

1. ALT, SLT, YAG capsulotomy, PRK, Laser lens extraction, + additional laser procedures
2. “Scalpel procedures” with some exceptions
3. Prescribe all medications except for narcotics/marijuana… Ability to deliver all medicines by any route (injection in or around the eye, IV, PO)
4. Provide any type of anesthesia except for general anesthesia

Not sure why you guys are not able to perform your own general anesthesia yet.
Click to expand...

Dentists and podiatrists use IV's and general anaesthesia so why not optometrists in the future? O wait, turf wars, thats right. (But wait, learning how to do a prostate exam in medical school makes me smarter than you when it comes to eyes!) Podiatry average undergraduate GPA of admitted students is less than optometry and you trust them with needles and surgery, OMG!
 
Shnurek said:
Dentists and podiatrists use IV's and general anaesthesia so why not optometrists in the future? O wait, turf wars, thats right. (But wait, learning how to do a prostate exam in medical school makes me smarter than you when it comes to eyes!) Podiatry average undergraduate GPA of admitted students is less than optometry and you trust them with needles and surgery, OMG!
Click to expand...

Dentists don't use general anesthesia. The ones that do surgery and perform G. A. are actually DDS/MDs. They go to med school after they get their DDS and then do a residency in oral/maxillofacial surgery.

Podiatrists...It's complicated. Their first 2 years are similar to med school and they do have to do a 2-3 year residency. So I'm not that surprised that they can do general anesthesia. And trust me, we are not currently engaged in a turf war with podiatrists.

Optometrists - Why would we even need to do general? I guess if I were to enucleate or something...but I don't even want that job. The MDs can have that one. Optometrists can and do use needles. I think the ophthalmologists just kind of got there first, so they continue to keep purview over eye surgeries. But they're not as well equipped to deal with the neuro problems involved with vision. So don't worry, I think we can still keep reign over that area.
 
Mewcakes said:
Dentists don't use general anesthesia. The ones that do surgery and perform G. A. are actually DDS/MDs. They go to med school after they get their DDS and then do a residency in oral/maxillofacial surgery.

Podiatrists...It's complicated. Their first 2 years are similar to med school and they do have to do a 2-3 year residency. So I'm not that surprised that they can do general anesthesia. And trust me, we are not currently engaged in a turf war with podiatrists.

Optometrists - Why would we even need to do general? I guess if I were to enucleate or something...but I don't even want that job. The MDs can have that one. Optometrists can and do use needles. I think the ophthalmologists just kind of got there first, so they continue to keep purview over eye surgeries. But they're not as well equipped to deal with the neuro problems involved with vision. So don't worry, I think we can still keep reign over that area.
Click to expand...

You think medical doctors arent as well equipped to deal with the neurological problems that arise?
 
In all honesty, optometrists will not be respected until the name is changed to oculists or something that does not simply mean "eye measurers". Optometric physician just doesn't sound too grand. And yes, complicated surgeries can be left to the "eye surgeons" (ophthalmologists).

After all OD = both Doctor of Optometry and Oculus Doctor so I think I'll label myself the latter once I attain it.
 
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Dr Oops said:
You think medical doctors arent as well equipped to deal with the neurological problems that arise?
Click to expand...

Neuro problems with vision? To be honest but at the same time not really wanting to start a fight, not really. Ophthalmologists are first and foremost surgeons. When they get a 10 yr old amblyope, assuming they aren't going to patch them, they would probably send to a VT specialist who is....an optometrist. I don't mean neuropathology. I mean cortical vision. An MD's didactic training spans the entire body, and thank god, because I don't know the first thing about keeping myself healthy. I routinely eat apple crisp for dinner. After didactic, they go on to their surgical residency where somewhere along they way they learn to do a refraction. I respect the MDs and will always look forward to working with them. If there's some kind of pathology that I'm not sure of, I know I can count on an ophthalmologist for a second look. But an OD spends the majority of their 4 years learning how to keep the eyes balanced and the importance of healthy vision in addition to sight. Can the MDs say the same?

Though I have to admit I'm biased.


edit: Ok, so I did some quick research on the education of ophthalmologists and my opinion has shifted slightly, but not enough to erase everything I just wrote. I won't let 10 minutes of my life go to waste like that. But I also don't want to start a fight. So take what I said with a grain of salt and don't anyone get in a tizzy over it. Do your own research and make your own opinion on it. oMDs are better at some things and ODs are better at others. I would even go so far as to recommend MDs looking into the education of ODs to see our similarities and our differences.
 
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Shnurek said:
In all honesty, optometrists will not be respected until the name is changed to oculists or something that does not simply mean "eye measurers". Optometric physician just doesn't sound too grand. And yes, complicated surgeries can be left to the "eye surgeons" (ophthalmologists).

After all OD = both Doctor of Optometry and Oculis Doctor so I think I'll label myself the latter once I attain it.
Click to expand...

I disagree...more than I care to write here. And I'm not going to get into it and threadjack this originally educational thread any further than I already have. But I wholeheartedly...vehemently even....disagree.
 
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Mewcakes said:
Neuro problems with vision? To be honest but at the same time not really wanting to start a fight, not really. Ophthalmologists are first and foremost surgeons. When they get a 10 yr old amblyope, assuming they aren't going to patch them, they would probably send to a VT specialist who is....an optometrist. I don't mean neuropathology. I mean cortical vision. An MD's didactic training spans the entire body, and thank god, because I don't know the first thing about keeping myself healthy. I routinely eat apple crisp for dinner. After didactic, they go on to their surgical residency where somewhere along they way they learn to do a refraction. I respect the MDs and will always look forward to working with them. If there's some kind of pathology that I'm not sure of, I know I can count on an ophthalmologist for a second look. But an OD spends the majority of their 4 years learning how to keep the eyes balanced and the importance of healthy vision in addition to sight. Can the MDs say the same?

Though I have to admit I'm biased.


edit: Ok, so I did some quick research on the education of ophthalmologists and my opinion has shifted slightly, but not enough to erase everything I just wrote. I won't let 10 minutes of my life go to waste like that. But I also don't want to start a fight. So take what I said with a grain of salt and don't anyone get in a tizzy over it. Do your own research and make your own opinion on it. oMDs are better at some things and ODs are better at others. I would even go so far as to recommend MDs looking into the education of ODs to see our similarities and our differences.
Click to expand...


Yes The MDs can say the same, they get more training. During those didactic years, they learn alot of neurology and alot about the eye since it is often a big clue about what is going on with the rest of the brain and even the body. Then as a med student, if they are interested in opthto, they do rotations in it and get even more learning opportunities. Then they apply for residency. Then if they want to do more specialized surgeries (like retina), they do a fellowship. I dont know alot about OD training, but by sheer number of hours, i dont think you will cover that much.

Honestly I dont think any board should just get carte blanche to decided their own scope to be whatever they want, including MD/DOs. Thats a recipe for disaster. Doing anesthesia isnt just turning on the gas and getting to work, its a very involved process, and we start learning about it med school, but theres still alot more to learn in residency which is 80 hours per week (which is lower than it used to be due to saftey concerns but brings up the counter point of educational concerns). Surgical residencies are among the most grueling and lengthy of them.

ODs are great practitioners, but they dont have the same training as physicians. You cant just increase scope of practice because you feel like it or cuz theres more $$$$. The training has to be there first, and it should be overseen by the practitioners with the largest amount of training and knowledge base. There are lots of restrictions in medicine as well, you wouldnt have a general surgeon just start doing eye surgeries, they have lots of surgical experience, they went to medical school and know the anatomy and such, but these things still arent permitted.

To answer ur other question about why ODs get more practice rights in states less populated, and I dont want to start a fight here, is that the practitioners with the highest level of knowledge arent around, so people with less training get more lee way to fill in the gap.
 
:corny:
 
Dr Oops said:
I dont know alot about OD training, but by sheer number of hours, i dont think you will cover that much.
Click to expand...

I keep really wanting to right argumentative posts but at the same time I don't want to get into it. ODs spend a lot of time learning to do what they do. We spend our 4 yrs learning about the eye and go on internships/externships and have residencies too. Our focuses are just different. Of course we don't spend 1000 hours in surgical training. We're not surgeons. So if you took out surgical training, I think number of hours spent could be comparable.
 
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