Clinical Psych. degree only limited to that particular state?

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VerryBerry

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I am still a bit unclear on how I can check to see what I can practice with my masters in clinical psych. in my state. How would I check this? I have tried general psych. websites from an online research, but can't find this answer.
I was also wondering why you're limited to only that state. I read that you would have to go through extra years of schooling if you ever decided to practice in another state. Why is this?
Any websites on how to check what I can do with my masters in clin. psych. in my particular state would be so appreciated! I am really lost, so any help would be great.
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VerryBerry said:
I am still a bit unclear on how I can check to see what I can practice with my masters in clinical psych. in my state. How would I check this? I have tried general psych. websites from an online research, but can't find this answer.
I was also wondering why you're limited to only that state. I read that you would have to go through extra years of schooling if you ever decided to practice in another state. Why is this?
Any websites on how to check what I can do with my masters in clin. psych. in my particular state would be so appreciated! I am really lost, so any help would be great.
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Each state has a licensing board that oversees various licensed professions. They are the ones who will be able to tell you what you need to know. Dr. Ken Pope has a webpage that lists all of the contact/website information: http://kspope.com/licensing/index.php

Licensure in a state ONLY covers that state. Many states have reciprocity, though each one is a little different and still requires you apply for a license in the state in which you intend to practice. The VA only requires you are licensed SOMEWHERE, though it doesn't matter if you are licensed in the state where your VA is located.

As for licensure with an MS in Clinical Psychology....that is tricky, as it is not a common degree and it is often not designed for practice. Some states accept them as equivilant to an MA Counseling/MSW/etc and allow for licensure at the masters level, typically an LPC, while others do not. If you want to practice at the Masters level, I'd probably recommend looking for programs that allow for licensure as an LPC, LCSW, or similar. To be licensed as a psychologist, you need to complete doctoral training. Some states (2?) have a grandfathered "MS level psychologist", though the license functions as a MS level provider.
 
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First off, thank you so much for the reply! :eek: It really helped a lot.

Therapist4Chnge said:
As for licensure with an MS in Clinical Psychology....that is tricky, as it is not a common degree and it is often not designed for practice. Some states accept them as equivilant to an MA Counseling/MSW/etc and allow for licensure at the masters level, typically an LPC, while others do not. If you want to practice at the Masters level, I'd probably recommend looking for programs that allow for licensure as an LPC, LCSW, or similar. To be licensed as a psychologist, you need to complete doctoral training. Some states (2?) have a grandfathered "MS level psychologist", though the license functions as a MS level provider.
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I have a question about this. I want to apply for schooling in California and practice in California, so can I assume that I could be a clinical psychologist (with a masters) since there are schools there that offer such a program? You mentioned that there are "some states" which could allow me to have limited practice. How would I be able to find this information? The site you have provided is a great resource, but what exactly am I supposed to look for when checking each state's page? I know that a masters in clin. psych. isn't a psychologist such as one with a PhD, so I am fully expecting to have limited practice.
 
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"Psychologist" is a legally protected term in almost all, if not all, 50 states. That title is reserve for those with doctoral degrees in clinical, counseling, or school psychology. When you have a masters you are to advertise yourself as whatever you are licensed as (eg., "Mental Health Counselor," "Marriage and Family Therapist," "Licensed Clinical Social Worker").

Every state is different and information isnt organzied well in this domain. I would simply call the state board of psychology for whatever info you are inquiring about.
 
erg923 said:
"Psychologist" is a legally protected term in almost all, if not all, 50 states. That title is reserve for those with doctoral degrees in clinical, counseling, or school psychology. When you have a masters you are to advertise yourself as whatever you are licensed as (eg., "Mental Health Counselor," "Marriage and Family Therapist," "Licensed Clinical Social Worker").
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Thank you for the clarification!
However, what's the point in pursuing the clinical psychology (masters option) if you're not really a "psychologist" then? I don't get why such programs even exist then. Yes I know that the practice is limited (PhD gets to do more stuff essentionally, and are the real psychologists so to speak), but then what can I exactly do with a masters in clinical psychology? You mentioned counseling, but that's a separate Masters program.
 
VerryBerry said:
Thank you for the clarification!
However, what's the point in pursuing the clinical psychology (masters option) if you're not really a "psychologist" then? I don't get why such programs even exist then. Yes I know that the practice is limited (PhD gets to do more stuff essentionally, and are the real psychologists so to speak), but then what can I exactly do with a masters in clinical psychology? You mentioned counseling, but that's a separate Masters program.
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Because people dont get the degree to get conferred a title....they get the degree because it trains them to do a job/profession. Remember you can usually meet the qualification for licensing to be a "Mental Health Counselor" with several different masters degree's...an MA/MS in clinical psych is one of them. T4C mentioned this already when he first responded to you. I copied it below.

Therapist4Chnge said:
As for licensure with an MS in Clinical Psychology....that is tricky, as it is not a common degree and it is often not designed for practice. Some states accept them as equivilant to an MA Counseling/MSW/etc and allow for licensure at the masters level, typically an LPC, while others do not.
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Masters programs in clinical psych are also good for people who are using it as a "stepping stone" to a ph.d program. Masters programs are easier to gain admitance to than a doctoral program...so its a way of getting your "foot in the door" and getting some more experience under your belt before aplying for the doctorate.
 
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^Got it. Thanks! :)



1) How stable are the jobs for someone with a Masters in clinical psychology?
How likely is to get laid off? I know that a PhD could potentially provide more stability with more job offers, but I can't spend all of that money and time with a huge family to support.

2) Would it be more valuable to tutor in a special needs class or work as a phone receiver in a suicide prevention program than be a research assistant for a random psychology lab? I say random because none of the labs are really geared towards mental health (at my university). However, I am unsure of what KIND of "research" Master programs are seeking.

3) Within how many years do I have to enter a PhD program AFTER completing a Masters program in clinical psychology? I am just curious (just in case I change my mind/situations change). Is it usually within a year or two?
 
I am not familiar with the job market for masters level therapists.

A university based Ph.D. program is "supported." This means tuition is remitted and you are given a stipend. Usually between 15 and 20k per year. That is, you make (a small amount) money to get the degree. This money comes from university funds and research grant support from your advisor/lab. One works in the professors lab and/or TAs during their grad training for this money. Psy.D programs, on the other hand, are almost always very costly because there is no money allocated to support you. However, some university based Psy.D programs (only a handful exist) do offer fairly good financial support for their students.

You can apply for admission to a doctoral program as you are finishing up the masters, or you can choose to work for a few years with the masters before deciding whether or not to go back. Thats up to you. Either way, getting a masters first rarely shaves off much time it takes to complete the doctorate. Not all courses will transfer and any clinical practicum hours accumulated during the course of a masters will not transfer or count towards doctoral practicum training hours on your APPI. The masters is really only beneficial if one had a poor undergrad GPA and needs to make up for it. However, it is good exposure/experience for your personally, and can give one a feel for what the field and graduate level training in psychology is truly like. Keep in mind that just because you have a masters doesn't mean you will get into a doctoral program. Ph.D. doctoral programs are fiercely competitive and the masters does very little in and of itself to increase likelihood of gaining admission to a doctoral program.

I would recommend getting both kinds of experiences before you apply to masters programs. It will help your app and will give you a feel for both areas. You do not need nearly as much research experience to be competitive for a masters program as you do a Ph.D. program, but you will still need some. Many masters program in clinical psychology will require that you conduct and empirical masters thesis as part of your degree. However, as I said before, some also give you the choice of either doing this, or taking an extra or more extensive clinical training practicum.

If your goal is to eventually gain admission to a ph.d clinical program, a research position will be looked upon much more favorably than a clinically oriented position.
 
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^erg923

Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate it. :)



If someone could please get back to me about the job market and how stable a Masters level counseling and/or clin. psych degree holder is, that would be greatly appreciated as well. It's a bit tough to find a definite answer to this (of course), but just wondering if anyone knows from experience or knows someone in the field who's gotten laid off or not.


I am also interested in the Marriage and Family Therapy program. It seems like the clinical psychology Masters degree is still new, and there aren't a lot of job offers for it. A Masters holder would be cheaper than a PhD though (generally to hire), but then again a PhD holder can do more. This is really confusing.
 
The terminal masters degree in clinical psychology is certainly not new, but you are correct that many (if not most) are aimed at simply preparing people for getting to the doctorate. There are ones that specifically exist for training people to do masters level therapy work though. San Jose State for instance, I think anyway. Still, if you are certain that you simply want to practice at the masters level, a MFT (or something similar) is probably and better choice.

Beware that there is currently quite a bit of dispute regarding how much and how complex clinical therapy work masters level providers should be doing on their own. Masters level therapist have started to encroach on the therapy market that was once the sole domain if doctoral level providers. Masters level folks do it for cheaper, and insurance companies know this and like it.
 
VerryBerry said:
1) How stable are the jobs for someone with a Masters in clinical psychology?
How likely is to get laid off? I know that a PhD could potentially provide more stability with more job offers, but I can't spend all of that money and time with a huge family to support.
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I don't know how true this is, but I heard that many businesses and the like are hiring people with masters degrees as opposed to individuals with Phd or PsyD degrees simply because it is cheaper and almost as effective (would you really hire a "professional listener" for full price when you can get it at a fraction of the cost?). Additionally, if you are going to open your own practice, health insurance companies will only help pay for counselors with a masters for the same reason. PhDs and PsyDs who open their own practice can charge huge fees while those with master degrees.....can't.

Be warned though, people with masters are abundant (especially here in California). If you want job security, you might have to consider relocating.
 
Knit Knots said:
I don't know how true this is, but I heard that many businesses and the like are hiring people with masters degrees as opposed to individuals with Phd or PsyD degrees simply because it is cheaper and almost as effective (would you really hire a "professional listener" for full price when you can get it at a fraction of the cost?). Additionally, if you are going to open your own practice, health insurance companies will only help pay for counselors with a masters for the same reason. PhDs and PsyDs who open their own practice can charge huge fees while those with master degrees.....can't.

Be warned though, people with masters are abundant (especially here in California). If you want job security, you might have to consider relocating.
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This is not necessarily true. I worked for a major health insurance company for several years. The only mental health providers we would consider eligible across all policies were licensed MD/PhD professionals. (Hell, PsyD's often had a difficult time being reimbursed b/c folks at the insurance company had no idea what a PsyD degree meant! :rolleyes:) For 'special' accounts (i.e., group-sponsored policies where the employer opted to pay extra for a rider), there was sometimes the benefit of coverage for LCSW/LPCs etc, but these were usually national accounts, executives, or extremely small businesses where the folks actually cared about their employees and provided decent insurance. These benefits were quite rare. (Keeping in mind that most mental health benefits typically pay at a considerably reduced cost in comparison to your major medical benefits to begin with... ) This is one reason why there are often mental health providers who choose not to accept insurance.
 
^^Thanks for the replies everyone. Really, really appreciate them.


Knit Knots said:
Be warned though, people with masters are abundant (especially here in California). If you want job security, you might have to consider relocating.
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Where is the demand though? It would be difficult to know this, of course, but do you know this from experience (that California is impacted)? It's not impossible though, is it? Compared to let's say, nursing?
 
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Demand is probably not all that different from where the demand for the rest of mental health work is. Rural areas/states. Cities are fully of universites/colleges and people that want to stay there. Often times they are covered pretty well.
 
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paramour said:
This is not necessarily true. I worked for a major health insurance company for several years. The only mental health providers we would consider eligible across all policies were licensed MD/PhD professionals. (Hell, PsyD's often had a difficult time being reimbursed b/c folks at the insurance company had no idea what a PsyD degree meant! :rolleyes:) For 'special' accounts (i.e., group-sponsored policies where the employer opted to pay extra for a rider), there was sometimes the benefit of coverage for LCSW/LPCs etc, but these were usually national accounts, executives, or extremely small businesses where the folks actually cared about their employees and provided decent insurance. These benefits were quite rare. (Keeping in mind that most mental health benefits typically pay at a considerably reduced cost in comparison to your major medical benefits to begin with... ) This is one reason why there are often mental health providers who choose not to accept insurance.
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This is weird, because everywhere I look, I see people going to people with masters over PhDs. I hate to use a personal anecdote, but my cousin who just had her daughter went to a counselor for her post-pardum depression. Plus with the current state of affairs, it seems that switching to counselors seems like an economically logical choice.

VerryBerry said:
^^Thanks for the replies everyone. Really, really appreciate them.


Where is the demand though? It would be difficult to know this, of course, but do you know this from experience (that California is impacted)? It's not impossible though, is it? Compared to let's say, nursing?
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In my career seminar, our teacher said that there are plenty of jobs in the midwest simply because no one wants to move out there. Relocating to a rural area would be especially difficult for those who have lived the city life.
 
Knit Knots said:
This is weird, because everywhere I look, I see people going to people with masters over PhDs. I hate to use a personal anecdote, but my cousin who just had her daughter went to a counselor for her post-pardum depression. Plus with the current state of affairs, it seems that switching to counselors seems like an economically logical choice.
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Your personal experiences/observations are not an empirical study of the trend.

Nevertheless, as I alluded to before, masters-level practitioners have encroached into the therapy market very well, and there is not doubt many people are utilizing them...and their cheaper rates. I think among the high functioning "worried-well" population with little serious pathology, sure, no problem. However, complicated psychiatric patients and those who require multiple approaches are probably better served by the people with the most experience/training in psychotherapy (Ph.D.s or Psy.Ds). There is also the argument that doctoral-level practitioners are more likely stay up with the current state of the literature, to use empirically supported treatments, and to use their knowledge of research methodology to spot, and not fall prey to, the latest and greatest pseudoscientific treatment fad/technique. This makes alot of logical sense, but this it is admittedly difficult to examine empirically.
 
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Thanks again for the replies! :)



I have another question:
What is the MAIN difference between a social worker and a marriage and family therapist? I see more ads for social workers and marriage and family therapists than I do for a clin. psych (Masters level). Then again, the clin. psych. job is probably under a different name.

The more info I get, the less I am intrigued by the Masters level in clin. psych. I don't want to enter a grad school due to monetary and family issues, and it seems like the majority of them prepare you for entrance to a grad. school.

I really want to work with eating disorder patients, depressed individuals, and other areas of mental health.
I just don't know if a social worker is the path or a marriage and family therapist. It fits into the clin psych path, or at least the way I see it.
 
Different focus certainly, although there are social worker masters program that focus specifically on therapy with those with psychiatric disturbance. Why don't you compare the curriculum and required classwork between the programs? It should be listed on their websites.
 
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1) How stable are the jobs for someone with a Masters in clinical psychology?
How likely is to get laid off? I know that a PhD could potentially provide more stability with more job offers, but I can't spend all of that money and time with a huge family to support.


@ VeryBerry: Good questions! Anyway it is possible to come out of school with a master's degree in clinical psychology and be able to get a decent job, but it does depend on what state you live in.

I am actually a licensed master's level psychologist in Michigan (although I now live in Chicago). Before moving I worked in a state psychiatric hospital and made a very good living. I basically did everything that a PhD/PsyD would do, which included testing and therapy. What was also nice was that I was not required to get supervision from a PhD/PsyD since I worked within a government system (I was a state employee, just like the ones in Wisconsin!). I will say that my job was rough because of the on-going budget concerns within the state system, but I gained a lot of experience by working with forensic patients and those with severe mental illness who were court-ordered for hospitalization.

So, I can tell you that it is possible to basically do everything that a PhD/PsyD does and make a decent living. However, it does depend on the state where you want to practice. From what I know, there are only a few states that license master's level psychologists. Plus, I personally feel that getting supervision from a PhD/PsyD is overall a good thing. Again, I was not required under Michigan's statues, but I did obtain supervision and paid out-of-pocket for it out of personal choice.

Check out this organization's website as they are mostly an advocacy group for master's level psychologists:
http://www.enamp.org/
 
+1 on enamp.org

As a general rule, you won't find much support from doctoral students or PhD's on this forum in terms of master's-level psychologists. Most of those on this forum who are in doctoral programs or have completed their doctoral studies know very little about master's-level folks (other than that they are not adequately trained, a mantra you will hear over and over that simply isn't supported by research). They mean well, they just don't seem to be able to see past their own points of view (read indoctrination). Much of the information they assert as fact is merely opinion. And a very biased and limited opinion, at best.

Search the forum. There have been threads on master's-level practice with some mixture of viewpoints that might give you a more balanced idea of what to expect in the master's-level market.

Good luck.
 
^Thank you very much for the replies, erg923, berlin81 and PsyDetective!



1) I still don't quite get why every state has different licensing policies. So basically if you go to a school in California, you have to get the licensing in California? I am still confused about this, and I don't want to rush into anything before I regret it in the future.

2) So this site:
http://www.enamp.org/PDF/Licensure%20Information%20NAMP.pdf

says that in California I can be a "psychological assistant". What exactly does that entail? An assistant for who, where, and in what field? I am assuming you're the assistant for a psychiatrist, but then again which masters route are they referring to? The site regards masters in psychology, but there are a lot of different avenues to get into.
I wouldn't mind Oregon, Washington, or Arizona though. I just need to stay near the West coast due to family obligations (so preferrably California).

3) I will e-mail the schools about the Masters in clinical psychology. Should I ask them something like: Will your Masters program in clinical psychology only train the students to enter a graduate school? Something along those lines? The more I read about Masters in clinical psychology, the more I realize that A LOT of them simply prepare a student to enter grad. school. I can't seem to find a list of schools/general info that offer just a Masters in clin. psych. with the intention of completing just a Masters (and no PhD).

4) I have been checking hospital ads, and it seems like they prefer a social worker or a marriage and family counselor. Is there a difference between a marriage and family therapist, and marriage and family counselor? I did a quick internet check, but I couldn't really find the answer.
If I had a clin. psych. Masters degree, could I still apply to such a position (that required a social worker or a marriage and family counselor)? It seems to fall within the same field.

5) I am feeling discouraged about the Masters in clin. psych, so that's why I am looking into the Marriage & Family Counselor program as well. I read that the focus is very small (on relationships), and that you're very limited in the number of areas that you can work. Would a social worker have more capabilities in a number of different fields? That's what I am getting when reading different info. online (that a social worker has more scope).



I know I am asking a lot of repetitive and relatively naive questions, but in fairness, the earliest time I can get an advising appointment at my university is in a month (that's what happens when your university is huge, and they only have one advisor-budget cuts). I have been researching this online, but there are just SO many different routes to take when applying to Masters programs. I just want to be sure I have the accurate information. So, I'd like to thank everyone for taking their time to help a completely lost person. I really do appreciate it.
 
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VerryBerry said:
^Thank you very much for the replies, erg923, berlin81 and PsyDetective!



1) I still don't quite get why every state has different licensing policies. So basically if you go to a school in California, you have to get the licensing in California? I am still confused about this, and I don't want to rush into anything before I regret it in the future.

2) So this site:
http://www.enamp.org/PDF/Licensure Information NAMP.pdf

says that in California I can be a "psychological assistant". What exactly does that entail? An assistant for who, where, and in what field? I am assuming you're the assistant for a psychiatrist, but then again which masters route are they referring to? The site regards masters in psychology, but there are a lot of different avenues to get into.
I wouldn't mind Oregon, Washington, or Arizona though. I just need to stay near the West coast due to family obligations (so preferrably California).

3) I will e-mail the schools about the Masters in clinical psychology. Should I ask them something like: Will your Masters program in clinical psychology only train the students to enter a graduate school? Something along those lines? The more I read about Masters in clinical psychology, the more I realize that A LOT of them simply prepare a student to enter grad. school. I can't seem to find a list of schools/general info that offer just a Masters in clin. psych. with the intention of completing just a Masters (and no PhD).

4) I have been checking hospital ads, and it seems like they prefer a social worker or a marriage and family counselor. Is there a difference between a marriage and family therapist, and marriage and family counselor? I did a quick internet check, but I couldn't really find the answer.
If I had a clin. psych. Masters degree, could I still apply to such a position (that required a social worker or a marriage and family counselor)? It seems to fall within the same field.

5) I am feeling discouraged about the Masters in clin. psych, so that's why I am looking into the Marriage & Family Counselor program as well. I read that the focus is very small (on relationships), and that you're very limited in the number of areas that you can work. Would a social worker have more capabilities in a number of different fields? That's what I am getting when reading different info. online (that a social worker has more scope).



I know I am asking a lot of repetitive and relatively naive questions, but in fairness, the earliest time I can get an advising appointment at my university is in a month (that's what happens when your university is huge, and they only have one advisor-budget cuts). I have been researching this online, but there are just SO many different routes to take when applying to Masters programs. I just want to be sure I have the accurate information. So, I'd like to thank everyone for taking their time to help a completely lost person. I really do appreciate it.
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1. In regards to California - In a nutshell, yes. The general rule of thumb is that if you went to go to a school in a particular state, you're chances of getting licensed in that state are good (unless the program is not APA accredited). Obviously the more well-known universities don't have too much of a problem, but if you end of going to a professional psychology school, you want to make sure that they can AT LEAST prepare you for obtaining licensure in that state.

2. I'm not too sure on the psychological assistant category in California. However I have heard horror stories about their licensing requirements for PhDs and PsyDs. A couple of professors that I had back in school (who were from California) simply told me and my classmates to don't even bother going to California, it would be career suicide.

3. Yes, talk to MA programs and ask them if their program helps graduates get licensed or if they are simply a spring-board program into a doctorate program. However you can typically tell what certain programs offer by looking at the curriculum, if there are no internship/practicum requirements. Its not a clinical program and therefore you cannot get licensed.

4. Sadly, some hospitals and related facilities have different approaches to treatment. And for some that does not include psychological services. I mentioned before that I use to work in a psychiatric hospital in Michigan and was a licensed master's level psychologist. Some other facilities in Michigan did not have MA psychologists although they were all within the state system. All the state facilities had independent discretion on who they hire and for what purpose. So essentially it depends on the organization's outlook, but it does appear that psychologists are loosing such positions due to budget cuts.

5. You are pretty much correct. Social Workers learn various approaches to treatment and can essentially do much of what a psychologist can do (except testing). Also, SW's have a greater chance on getting insurance reimbursement versus MFT's. Personally, MFT's learn a lot of great theories and skills, but in the eyes of managed care, it is not essential treatment. I know, it sucks.

If you have more questions please post them. A lot of people ask about MA programs and career options so this is a good thing.
 
berlin81 said:
5. You are pretty much correct. Social Workers learn various approaches to treatment and can essentially do much of what a psychologist can do (except testing). Also, SW's have a greater chance on getting insurance reimbursement versus MFT's. Personally, MFT's learn a lot of great theories and skills, but in the eyes of managed care, it is not essential treatment. I know, it sucks.

If you have more questions please post them. A lot of people ask about MA programs and career options so this is a good thing.
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It is frustrating that people want to do what psychologists do, but without putting in the time and effort for that opportunity. Psychologists do far more than talk therapy. Many psychologists are moving away therapy from because of mid-level encroachment and diminishing reimbursements. Psychologists are moving more and more into administration and management jobs, as we are getting priced out of the market. It's a shame because we are still the best option for therapy, given the ability to do assessments, outcome research related to the clinical work, etc.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
It is frustrating that people want to do what psychologists do, but without putting in the time and effort for that opportunity. Psychologists do far more than talk therapy. Many psychologists are moving away therapy from because of mid-level encroachment and diminishing reimbursements. Psychologists are moving more and more into administration and management jobs, as we are getting priced out of the market. It's a shame because we are still the best option for therapy, given the ability to do assessments, outcome research related to the clinical work, etc.
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I completely agree. I cringe every time I read:

Social Workers learn various approaches to treatment and can essentially do much of what a psychologist can do (except testing).
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That is simply not true. The training models are vastly different. And quite frankly, it is arrogant and self-serving for people to make this claim after putting in a third of the time in training.
 
KayJay85 said:
That is simply not true. The training models are vastly different. And quite frankly, it is arrogant and self-serving for people to make this claim after putting in a third of the time in training.
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For comparison, here are some basic training differences for "essentially the same" positions.

Doctoral Training
~110-120 credits
4-5 years of full-time graduate training
Dissertation & other research
Teaching
2-3+ years of practica training
1 year internship
1 year post-doc (2 for many specialities)
Licensure
Boarding requires another 2 years of experience, oral/written exams, etc.

6-8 years of training + a minimum of 2 more years if you want to be boarded, after passing written/oral exams, case study review, etc.
----------------------------------------------------

Masters Training
~45-60 credits
2 years of part-time graduate training
Rarely a research requirement
No teaching
Some practica?
1.5 years of internship
Licensure

3.5 years of training

These are pretty different, no?
 
KayJay85 said:
I completely agree. I cringe every time I read:




That is simply not true. The training models are vastly different. And quite frankly, it is arrogant and self-serving for people to make this claim after putting in a third of the time in training.
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I think we can all agree that the training models are vastly different. I myself will not despute that. However I don't know where the "arrogant" comment is coming from. I might not know absolutely everything about the job or educational opportunities for MA psychologists and social workers, but that does not mean that my training (thus far) or perception is gravely limited. I am simply commenting on the atmosphere and conditions that I have been affiliated with, pure and simple. If you don't think what I have experienced academically or professionally is not worth noting or stating, then you are the one that is arrogant. We all come from different walks of life, and this topic and forum should welcome that instead of being overtly critical of others.
 
The amount of misleading information on here about master's level training in clinical psychology is unfortunate. It is more so because it is being promulgated by individuals purporting to be driven by empiricism and logic.


A (re)reading of the indoctrination literature in social psychology is indicated.
 
I meant arrogant in the sense that you did not complete the same training, yet proclaim that you can do all the same things. It would be the same if I proclaimed to be able to do all the things an LCSW can do, despite having no background or experience in social services or social justice. Or my claiming I can do everything a psychiatrist or psychiatric nurse can do, without any training in medicine. Not saying one is better or worse, but they are different degrees for a reason. Misinforming potential trainees that a master’s level clinician is able to do everything a doctoral level clinician can do is simply not responsible or professional. Being trained in assessment, having research skills, and having greater depth of education about underlying basis of behavior aids in diagnosis, conceptualization, and treatment planning. It is not a negligible thing.
 
Amazing that no one jumped on someone calling psychologists "professional listeners". :laugh: 'Tis all.

Edit: Although, I guess, T4C did touch on it. Good job, T4C ;).

Knit Knots said:
I don't know how true this is, but I heard that many businesses and the like are hiring people with masters degrees as opposed to individuals with Phd or PsyD degrees simply because it is cheaper and almost as effective (would you really hire a "professional listener" for full price when you can get it at a fraction of the cost?). Additionally, if you are going to open your own practice, health insurance companies will only help pay for counselors with a masters for the same reason. PhDs and PsyDs who open their own practice can charge huge fees while those with master degrees.....can't.

Be warned though, people with masters are abundant (especially here in California). If you want job security, you might have to consider relocating.
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Therapist4Chnge said:
It is frustrating that people want to do what psychologists do, but without putting in the time and effort for that opportunity. Psychologists do far more than talk therapy. Many psychologists are moving away therapy from because of mid-level encroachment and diminishing reimbursements. Psychologists are moving more and more into administration and management jobs, as we are getting priced out of the market. It's a shame because we are still the best option for therapy, given the ability to do assessments, outcome research related to the clinical work, etc.
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Last edited:
UhOh said:
Amazing that no one jumped on someone calling psychologists "professional listeners". :laugh: 'Tis all.

Edit: Although, I guess, T4C did touch on it. Good job, T4C ;).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was irksome. Unfortunately there are many misperceptions about the scope and function of clinical psychologists. While the majority of clinical psychologists participate in talk/supportive therapy at some point in their day/career, there are a number of other areas where that is not the main focus of the work. I get frustrated hearing such a myopic characterization of clinical psychology, as clinical psychologists contribute far more to their patients than being a "professional listener".
 
Ive done a lot of reading on reciprocity between different states regarding ma/ms degrees in counseling psych degrees.
I found that Oklahoma standards (where I live) seem to transfer across the majority of states. Sometimes with a need for payingto be evaluated, but often you can work as a licensed, or at least a psuedo supervised licensed professional counselor.

Now, OK requires 60 hours of course work, with 1500 supervised hours, and, I think, 900 intern hours, with no tranfer between internships and supervision. Theres also an option for a capstone/independent research paper to help with research for phd programs (although more is encouraged for abetter shot.)

I was told today at interviews that OK has fairly high standards for licensing (shocking to me, considering our massive state mental health budget cuts over the last 5 years) but many other states have the exact same requirements.

so it takes some work, but it is definately possible.

just do some research and you may be surprised
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Yeah, that was irksome. Unfortunately there are many misperceptions about the scope and function of clinical psychologists. While the majority of clinical psychologists participate in talk/supportive therapy at some point in their day/career, there are a number of other areas where that is not the main focus of the work. I get frustrated hearing such a myopic characterization of clinical psychology, as clinical psychologists contribute far more to their patients than being a "professional listener".
Click to expand...

I worked with an incredibly talented LCSW for years who flew off the handle when a cop called social workers bleeding heart smile and nodders :laugh:
 
FYI, In California you can get licensed with a doctorate from a regionally accredited institution and you do not need an APA accredited program. Also, the psych asst in Ca. is very easy to do, and if I remember correctly anyone who is enrolled in a licensable doctorate can get this certification, but otherwise you have to show adequate training in various clinical psych areas that MA programs do not cover (assessment etc..). You also need to be regularly supervised, and have a payment agreement with your psychologist. It is a win-win for most students who can make extra $$, gain extra testing/therapy etc... experience and for psychologists who can increase production considerably.
 
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